Most Effective School of Martial Arts

For those who live in areas where firearms are not an option and those that are smart enough to have a back up.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 14250
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Re: Most Effective School of Martial Arts

Post by Stercutus » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:30 am

To add to this MMA or any combat sport will expose you to tough guys. Which is an element that fundementally changes what works and what doesn't tactics wise.
This is an excellent point worth emphasizing. Fighting untrained, unconditioned fighters vs trained and conditioned fighters is a completely different problem set.

The untrained fighter will nearly always lose and even a relatively weak school like Aikido will offer advantages.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

User avatar
the_alias
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 6056
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:51 pm
Location: Not Here.

Re: Most Effective School of Martial Arts

Post by the_alias » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:22 pm

Necroing this as my answer in this thread was 'what would I send my kid to' and that answer was Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

I started training in November last year and have been pretty consistently going 3x a week since then - bumping to 4. 2 classes then 1 or 2 open mat sessions.

A few observations and thoughts so far in this journey.

- I really am loving it - as a beginner you are totally getting choked out, submitted left right and center - but you learn so much in these first few months it feels like.

- It really does toughen you up - I considered myself a pretty fit and strong guy compared to the average man. I've had a 1000lb total which is nothing in a PL world but it's something in the normal world. I would say the strength helps hugely but actually fighting 3 times a week toughens you in a different way. Early on I had some weeks I was so sore and beat up - but your body does adapt.

- Grappling is sometimes called 'the last resort' and in the street it really is. You never want to be on the ground, but if you are on the ground and have a BIT of knowledge of what works you are way ahead of someone who doesn't. I see this now with new guys who come in and know nothing, even as a rank beginner you are able to overcome their strength most times and control them.

- Nothing ever really negates size, strength, and youth. There is another white belt who started around the same time as me, he has a big height advantage and weight advantage on me. Technically I can control and usually get the better of him, we are pretty evenly matched but if he gets to an advantageous position where he can use his weight it's very hard. Likewise myself being stronger in certain areas has allowed me some advantages against other more advanced people if they make a mistake.

- Survival comes first - you HAVE to survive the choke attempt before the counter, if you flail or panic you get tapped out quicker. If you can hang in sometimes it really is just a game of patience looking for an opening.

- Working my weightlifting around BJJ is now what I do. It's actually been a really healthy thing to stop just chasing heavier weights and instead lift to keep myself strong and protected for grappling.

Obviously back to the question what is the most effective?

I think the evolution of ECQC style training for the tactical community that Shivworks has pioneered has really shown you need all these things together. Grappling skills in the standup clinch, the ability to survive on the ground, striking skills etc.

In terms of going up against a live resisting opponent though where you can be joint locked, choked, etc and do it multiple times a week BJJ certainly seems to have that down.
Man is a beast of prey

Black Beard
* *
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:34 am

Re: Most Effective School of Martial Arts

Post by Black Beard » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:41 am

I did about 10 years of martial arts, a whole load of battle reenactment and now go dancing.

My opinion:

All martial arts are false. Without the falseness, you will never be able to practice and you will never develop the art. The further a martial art is from reality and being practically tested, the higher the degree of falseness and the harder it is to make it work in reality.
When you get good enough, the individual style if fighting becomes less important than how you do it, but some styles are so false you will never get good.
I did kick boxing, judo and vale-tudo (grappling). Plus some ju-jitsu, wing chung, european longsword and escrima
. I'd suggest that full contact boxing and some form of competitive wrestling would give you your best chance of winning most one on one fights.
Fighting in a group is different to fighting one on one. Battle re-enactment is a game but it does teach you how to work with groups.
Most martial arts train in at least one of these ways: Sparring, drill and kata/forms. You need at least 2 of these.
Lastly learn to dance. It will teach you about timing, footwork, space management and how to interact with a dance partner. I learnt more on how to move another body from lindy hop that I did from judo. Many of the best martial artists can dance. I suggest lindy hop when the pandemic is over as it is great fun and dancing to swing music will open up a whole world of timing options.

dallas
* * *
Posts: 452
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:36 pm
Location: Gulf Coast

Re: Most Effective School of Martial Arts

Post by dallas » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:53 pm

Black Beard wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:41 am
I did about 10 years of martial arts, a whole load of battle reenactment and now go dancing.

My opinion:

All martial arts are false. Without the falseness, you will never be able to practice and you will never develop the art. The further a martial art is from reality and being practically tested, the higher the degree of falseness and the harder it is to make it work in reality.
When you get good enough, the individual style if fighting becomes less important than how you do it, but some styles are so false you will never get good.
I did kick boxing, judo and vale-tudo (grappling). Plus some ju-jitsu, wing chung, european longsword and escrima
. I'd suggest that full contact boxing and some form of competitive wrestling would give you your best chance of winning most one on one fights.
Fighting in a group is different to fighting one on one. Battle re-enactment is a game but it does teach you how to work with groups.
Most martial arts train in at least one of these ways: Sparring, drill and kata/forms. You need at least 2 of these.
Lastly learn to dance. It will teach you about timing, footwork, space management and how to interact with a dance partner. I learnt more on how to move another body from lindy hop that I did from judo. Many of the best martial artists can dance. I suggest lindy hop when the pandemic is over as it is great fun and dancing to swing music will open up a whole world of timing options.
I did over 30 years of martial arts.

In my DoJo, we were expected to go study other forms of martial arts after getting our black belts. We would then fight and see what really work and add it to the classes. We taught parallel philosophies, the traditional way and what works in a fight.

That is why I studied Taekwondo, Gracie Jujitsu, Modern Arnis under its founder Remy Amador Presas, muay thai, iaido, and some Aikido.

There is some good stuff in most if not all styles; however, you are correct that there is a lot of fluff.

I used college gymnastics to teach me control of my body.
Last edited by dallas on Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
12_Gauge_Chimp
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 7793
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:21 pm
Location: Middle of nowhere, West Texas

Re: Most Effective School of Martial Arts

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:28 pm

Is there a difference between Gracie Jujitsu and the regular Jujitsu?

I've heard the name Gracie mentioned a lot in MMA circles and I know that family is held in high regard, but I'm not sure if there's any differences between their style and regular Jujitsu.

User avatar
Barr
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 446
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:16 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: The Holy Trilogy of Dawn, Night and Day, Land of the Dead, Survival of the Dead, Diary of the Dead, Fido, Shaun of the Dead, hell all of them really
Location: Texas

Re: Most Effective School of Martial Arts

Post by Barr » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:18 pm

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:28 pm
Is there a difference between Gracie Jujitsu and the regular Jujitsu?

I've heard the name Gracie mentioned a lot in MMA circles and I know that family is held in high regard, but I'm not sure if there's any differences between their style and regular Jujitsu.
There is no real difference, jiujitsu is jiujitsu when you really get down to it. However there are various flavors of jiujitsu (10th Planet, Gracie Barra, Gracie, and so on) they all trace back to the same place though.
Vicarious_Lee wrote:Fuck it I'm Zombie Squad. I got this shit

User avatar
the_alias
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 6056
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:51 pm
Location: Not Here.

Re: Most Effective School of Martial Arts

Post by the_alias » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:50 pm

Barr wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:18 pm
12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:28 pm
Is there a difference between Gracie Jujitsu and the regular Jujitsu?

I've heard the name Gracie mentioned a lot in MMA circles and I know that family is held in high regard, but I'm not sure if there's any differences between their style and regular Jujitsu.
There is no real difference, jiujitsu is jiujitsu when you really get down to it. However there are various flavors of jiujitsu (10th Planet, Gracie Barra, Gracie, and so on) they all trace back to the same place though.
Right - the name/lineage is largely branding/marketing.

I train out of a Ribeiro affiliated school.

Of course each school will have slightly different approaches - some schools more competition focused etc etc, but that is less name orientated.
Man is a beast of prey

User avatar
12_Gauge_Chimp
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 7793
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:21 pm
Location: Middle of nowhere, West Texas

Re: Most Effective School of Martial Arts

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:37 pm

Oh, ok. I've seen Gracie Jujitsu mentioned in other places, but I didn't know if there was any difference in the style.

Thanks for the info, y'all.

Post Reply

Return to “Other Weapons”