ToddGray's INCH (Edited 20080228 and now with pics of me!!)

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
ToddGray
* * *
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ
Contact:

ToddGray's INCH (Edited 20080228 and now with pics of me!!)

Post by ToddGray » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:47 pm

My BOB is still quite the work in progress... as it shall always be anyway. Tell me what you think, what can I add/take away. I have basically decided to prepare for the worst (IE: Primary and Secondary BOLs are unavailable for whatever reason) and pack a bag that will allow me and my family to survive for an extended period, if necessary.

There are, of course, very obvious thing I am missing from this pack. Among them are:
shelter, sleeping bags, spare batteries, spare clothes (something a lot of people are forgetting, I have noticed), decent IFAK (I have 2 but they are the very basic military issue versions), cold weather gear (which I have, but have yet to pack), and of course... WATER and water containers.

Like I said, a work in progress. My kit is a 3 piece, I will start with the bottom layer and work up.

This is a Military issue SRU-21/P pilot's survival vest... with my own equipment that follows the original setup quite closely.
Image
It contains (from left to right, top to bottom) a signal wistle, a Zippo, Blistex lip balm, a Magellen eXplorist 210 GPS unit, a Cobra CB/Wx radio (model HH38WXST), Swiss Army pocketknife (without corkscrew), a military issue strobe locator beacon (with optional infrared shield)
, a wad of 550 cord and nylon rope, compass, magnesium fire starter stick, and a gill net (not ghilly) that can double as a fishing tool or a hammock when used with said wads of rope and cord. There is also a pocket beside the strobe that I plan to put pencil flares in.

Over the vest will go the US military web gear and shoulder harness.
Image
This is pretty self explanitory but just in case... it has a tiny FAK with a few bandages (I'll run through the entire contents when I buy my REAL FAK), 1qt OD canteen with drinking apparatus attachment (thats for my gas mask), my Gerber BFK (you figure out what that means... think Doom)with built in sharpener and a 550 cord wrap in case it needs to be turned into a spear, and a ammo pouch for multiple clip styles.

And on to the actual bag. The bag is a Mountain Spirit 80L (yes that's liters, because we're measuring capacity, but I think its about 1500 cuIn) that I got while I was deployed to Kyrgyzstan. It's an internal frame backpacker's compression rig with pockets out the wazzoo (quite literally).
Image
And all the stuff that's already inside...
Image
And I can still fit MUCH more in there. Anywho, on to the contents:

5ea US MRE's, military OD bug net, military woodland poncho, Coleman 50F fleece sleeping bag (its a great liner or blanket), 2ea sewing kits, 10x binoculars, 6 spice shaker, Gerber camp axe, military mess kit with cup, the World's Smallest Bible, FM 21-76, laminated US map, about 25 yds of 550 cord, sharpening stone, Gerber multi-tool, YakTrax crampons, -20F fingered gloves, 200 waterproof matches (which I'll dip in wax later), waterproof paper pad and pen, 60 yds of 90MPH OD duct tape, 10 toothbrushes (need to find long lasting toothpaste... any ideas? I'll get floss later), Camo paint, snakebite kit, what I like to call a "Keep Warm Kit" (steel wool, 9v battery, paper matches, space blanket, and extra needles... though those won't make you warm), Faraday flashlight, MX-991/U military flashlight, 4ea 12hr chem lights, 2ea 8hr chem lights, and a backpacker's any fuel (kerosene, gasoline, propane) stove and tank.

And on a side note... the pics were shot on my queen size bed to give you a comparison for size. Also, the pack is roughly 3 feet tall. And don't worry about accesablility to the first layers, I've tried it all on and it's no problem.

Thus far the whole shabang weighs a mighty 42.5lbs and I plan on putting a smaller one on the wife (she has already consented so it's ok) with the shelters bags and FAK when we get them.
Last edited by ToddGray on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
JIM
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:30 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Wall street (Dollar zombies FTL$)
Location: The Netherlands

Post by JIM » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:59 pm

At first glance, looks good.

You need some sort of shelter-item in your survival-vest. Think space-blanket, Heatsheet, poncho, etc.

Also, don't use your knife as a spear, you can lose it that way
Image

First-Aid primer and medical disclaimer

"Trust me, I'm a Medic. This won't hurt.... Me. You, I'm not so sure - probably a lot..''

southalabama
* *
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:30 pm
Location: Brewton, AL

Post by southalabama » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:04 pm

I like the set up ..........especially like the gill net. I've read some of the threads with guys debating what type fishing line should be in their survival kit, 8 or 12 lb, etc. The reality is when the SHTF and you need to feed yourself a gill net is the way to go. I love to fish, but if you are fishing to survive.......think gill net.

Did I read correctly, 10 toothbrushes?? You'll have the best smile in the PAW. One per person should suffice.

I'd also add more crack lighters.

jeepinbandtrider
* * * * *
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:02 pm
Location: MCAS MIRAMAR
Contact:

Post by jeepinbandtrider » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:11 pm

My opinion is to dump the CB radio and go to a GMRS FRS radio of some sort. CB is pretty much dead for handheld use and even on the open road there aren't that many people using it anymore. Truck Drivers being the obvious exception.

The MREs need to be field stripped. remvoe them from the large package and remove all the cardboard boxing material in them. Then leave them like that. You should just have the foil packets and accessories and stuff. The cardboard box and main pouch are just convience and they take up space.

I like that Gerber knife very nice. The Sheath has a built in sharpner?

good call on the vest also looks like it holds lots o' stuff and looks low profile enough.

Those older military FAKs like what you have are almost useless. The newer issue FAKs are much better with the addition of quick clot and such. About the only thing I found useful in the old ones was the chapstick, field dressings, and iodine tabs. The bandaids sucked and would never stick.

Do a google search on "USMC IFAK" those are pretty good FAKs for a bugout vest.
Image

Image

User avatar
ToddGray
* * *
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ
Contact:

Post by ToddGray » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:57 pm

I hear what you're saying JIM, however, take a closer look at the BFK, strategically placed notches in the right sized pole or stick will keep the knife securely in place. The many toothbrushes are a just in case... just like 550 and duct tape. Plus, just like the 550 and tape, toothbrushes can be used for more than one thing. What are crack lighters, chem sticks? If that was it, I am planning on grabbing a few of those krill lights. As for the GMRS/FRS radio, that would be a lot better, as long as I can find one that runs off "AA's". I'll definately consider stripping the rats, more space means more stuff every time. And I absolutely agree with the crappy FAKs. I plan on purchasing one of these and fitting it with a few things of my own. Yes the sheath has it's own little sharpener; looks like it will do a bang up job too.

southalabama
* *
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:30 pm
Location: Brewton, AL

Post by southalabama » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:20 pm

Crack lighters are just cheap ass lighters, I got 50 for $5.00 once......you can see thru them to see your fluid level and the flame is adjustable.

I've got a Gerber too, and it freaking rocks. lapolicegear.com still has them on closeout.

User avatar
Flea
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Location: Macedonia, OH
Contact:

Post by Flea » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:29 pm

Looks good Todd...nice job!
Image

Image

User avatar
TheFreakinBear
* * * * *
Posts: 3165
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:32 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Trilogy, Boondock Saints, 300, Snatch, Ghostbusters, Ice Age.
Location: TheOmegaMan.org
Contact:

Post by TheFreakinBear » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:45 pm

Looks like you've got a great start for a BOB and BOV (Bug Out Vest). I you have any questions feel free to PM me.
ImageImage

User avatar
Vindex
* * * * *
Posts: 1838
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:21 pm
Location: Night Hawk Forest, South Porcupine

Post by Vindex » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:42 pm

Regarding interest in toothpaste... I use Baking Soda most of the time. It has multiple other uses for the survivalist/camper as well: treating minor burns, poison ivy, bee stings. Can also be used for mouthwash, antiperspirant, and the wife will appreciate its many deoderizing and cleaning uses.

CB's seem to use more batteries, and they're heavier than the GMRS/FRS's. Then again, the CB band is picked up on some, though not all, SW radios, if it's the audience you're looking for.

User avatar
mbf2k
* * *
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 10:19 pm
Location: Western KY
Contact:

Post by mbf2k » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:45 pm

Hey, How are those Gerber hatchets? I have been looking at getting one of those.
- MBF2k

User avatar
TheFreakinBear
* * * * *
Posts: 3165
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:32 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Trilogy, Boondock Saints, 300, Snatch, Ghostbusters, Ice Age.
Location: TheOmegaMan.org
Contact:

Post by TheFreakinBear » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:47 pm

I've used the small one so I can say for certain that they are sharp but your cannot get enough momentum to really do a lot of damage whereas using a larger axe you gain enough momentum to really get a good cut.
ImageImage

User avatar
ToddGray
* * *
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ
Contact:

Post by ToddGray » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:43 pm

It's weighted pretty well for it's size... but, as TheFreaking said, momentum is a bit lacking. You can, however compensate for that by choking up on the handle (and swinging harder)and using wedges. When buying an axe... you generally want the overall length to reach from fist to armpit for maximum penetration. God I hope no one quotes that.

EDIT:

TheFreaking(insert what ever he's using here) has changed his name so I deleted Bear.

SECOND EDIT:

Corrected TheFreaking(insert what ever he's using here)'s name again.
Last edited by ToddGray on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
mbf2k
* * *
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 10:19 pm
Location: Western KY
Contact:

Post by mbf2k » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:15 pm

ToddGray wrote:...you generally want the overall length to reach from fist to armpit for maximum penetration. God I hope no one quotes that.
Sigged...
- MBF2k

User avatar
SweetTea
* * * *
Posts: 949
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:21 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: I kick it old school: NOtLD
Location: Kansas City, MO

Post by SweetTea » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:28 pm

Is there a reason you have a zippo instead of a bic or aforementioned crack lighter? My experience with zippos are that they leak fuel all over the place and are always dried out when you want them to light. Perhaps this is the case with the USAF vest because of the pressure issue, but I don't see it being superior to the 4 mini-bics that could take its place if you aren't planning on being at 35K ft. Also, get some shelter soon. Even a small tarp, poncho, or space blanket could put you far ahead until you save up for a real tent. Also, water is a big deal. You could get a dromedary bag/camelbak and piggyback it onto your pack, or throw in a stout plastic bottle or a few nalgenes if you have the room.

jeepinbandtrider
* * * * *
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:02 pm
Location: MCAS MIRAMAR
Contact:

Post by jeepinbandtrider » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:15 am

I forgot to add this earlier but you should take that roll of duct tape and transfer a lot of it to fake/old credit cards. Gunny did a write up on this a while back.

I took a roll of duct tape and moved over 25 or so feet worth onto those fake credit cards you get in the junk mail. I have one for each lvl of BOB and they are great. Saves a boatload of space to.
Image

Image

User avatar
ironraven
* * * * *
Posts: 3009
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:31 am
Location: Vermont

Re: ToddGray's BOB

Post by ironraven » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:43 am

ToddGray wrote:Tell me what you think,
Remember, you did ask. I'm going to be honest, so please don't be offended by my bluntness.

Your ID says South Carolina, so not too cold. I'll keep that in mind.

-signal wistle,
Get a modern, pealess design like the Fox40s or the Jetscream. They can't be over blown, and they don't bitch up if soaked for a long time- this can and will.

-a Zippo,
I didn't see spare fuel. I like Zippos when I'm in the woods becuase I can use one as a pocket candle. I don't like them in survival kits becuase the fuel evaporates and there isn't much you can do about it. A Bic or two, with a zip tie under the plunger.

-magnesium fire starter stick,
They aren't idiot proof- have you used it? Cut about half the mag block off, length wise, you won't need that much, keep the side with the ferro rod. Saves weight. Add a scraper to protect your knife blade, the back of a peice of hacksaw blade or a needle file who's spine isn't rounded works great.

-pencil flares
Are you at sea? Keep in mind that most are also still burning when they hit the ground- a forest fire is a noticeable signal, but getting cooked in your signal fire is just embarrassing. And saying "but the manual said" is the worst reason to have them in your kit. You've already got a strobe, if you really need more look into the "LaserFlare" system- expensive, but for the weight and volume it outperforms pyro AND can be used for more than a couple of seconds, without the shelf life and fire risk issues.

-Over the vest will go the US military web gear and shoulder harness.
Have you tried this configuration? I don't mean put it on, walked about the house and said "not that bad", I mean really tried it for a decent distance (5 miles or more) with your pack on. Although, under the vest it might not be so bad. If you insist on using web gear, go with an H-harness, much more comfortable and stable.

I'm going to suggest a vest or chest harness with a few, larger pouches, not a shit load of little ones, to replace the vest and web gear combo. It stands out less than web gear if you are around people, holds more than this-mine gets mistaken for a fishing vest when I wear it hiking. Another option is just put some things (like your knife and a small belt pouch) on your pants belt and add suspenders, and were your current vest over the top of that rather the web gear, and it would probably be the one I'd take.

BTW, where did you get your vest? I"ve been looking for an SRU-21 for a while but finding only badly beat on ones.

-tiny FAK with a few bandages
There is more than just a few bandages in there. Pop the seal, inspect it, know what is in it, and update what is past due or pull the things you don't need. I saw you are looking at an AMK Comprehensive- that is a BIG kit. Like Boy Scout Troop big. Their Fundamentals package is a pound lighter, and if supplemented by an IFAK will cover the same or more territory. You might also look at their "Hunter" and "Outfitter" models, they have a GSW in mind.

-1qt OD canteen
You can do better- Nalgenes are tougher, and easier to fill from shallow sources. I see you have the cup- good.

-my Gerber BFK
It isn't that big. And Jim is right, you are a lot better off using your knife to MAKE a spear point than you are with going John Rambo and lashing your knife to a stick. I know the military specification and training mention it- there is a lot of stupid bullshit that has become "doctrine" in military manuals.

-ammo pouch for multiple clip styles.
Do you have a weapon you are planning on including, or is this something you included as a possibles pouch? Looks like you still have the grenade pockets on there- unless you are going to have grenades, cut them off, they'll only catch on things.

-2ea sewing kits,
One good on is worth more than two crappy ones.

-6 spice shaker,
Get some small vials, no more than a dram. Get a big one for salt. Put your spices in those. This is frigging huge.

-military mess kit with cup,
Please tell me you put stuff in your mess kit. As for the cup, you've already got one.

-the World's Smallest Bible,
No offense, but do you honestly need it in your BOB? And I doubt the claim that it is the smallest.

-FM 21-76,
The data is solidly in the "meh" category, so much of it is out of date. Not horrible wrong (other than the desert sill silliness), just obsolete (like boiling water for five minutes- once it is boiling, the germs are dead, anything else is waste of fuel and time). This is also global. Gut it, pull out the crap you don't need in your area. Stick what is left in a two ziplocks.

-laminated US map,
What degree of resolution does it have? I'd rather have a decent map that shows my area of interest and try to scrounge as needed if I have to go on far walkabout than a crappy map of the whole country.

-sharpening stone,
In the package. *shakes head* This is a big stone, to.

-YakTrax crampons,
"crampon" is a bit generous for these things, they give you traction on icy sidewalks and that's really it. Fine for what they are designed for, but they don't replace crampons if you have to go off the blacktop.

--20F fingered gloves,
Twenty below? Nothing else in your gear suggests a need like that- yes your hands might be fine, but the rest of you will be slowly freezing solid after you keel over from hypothermia. Selecting for your environment and with respect to your other gear will save you weight and bulk. And they can't replace real work gloves, they'll shred. Have your real cold weather gear in one package.

-200 waterproof matches (which I'll dip in wax later),
Shellac or lacquer is better. The Colmans are ok, but try to find strike anywheres if you can and dip those. You'll want to put them in match cases. I'd like to see a lighter and a something a bit longer lived like a ferro rod here as well. I know you have them in your vest, but they are small and redundancy is good if you can only grab the pack but not the vest for some reason.

-10 toothbrushes (need to find long lasting toothpaste... any ideas?
Are they prepasted? I know, you said they are spares- ONE (1) spare. And a small tube of toothpaste. If you want long term storability, a small thing of baking soda stores forever for this purpose and works just as well. Or proper dental powder, but that is something of a specialty item that doesn't offer much advantage to basic bicarb.

-I'll get floss later
Waxed, non braided, non scented.

-Camo paint,
If you insist on having to be sneaky, get Spandoflauge, it works, goes on as fast a watch cap, and comes off just as easily. Face paint looks suspicious, not something you want to do if you have to deal with people who aren't trying to kill you.

-snakebite kit,
There is some real question if they work or not. Snaked don't go out looking for humans to bite, keeping your eyes open and your sleeping bag snug will prevent all but a tiny number of bites. And even then, the odds of there actually being venom injected is lower than most people think. And while I haven't read anything that is seriously suggesting they do harm, there is quite of bit of analysis that just don't work.

-Faraday flashlight,
Check it carefully. Very few of these are water resistant, and most can't survive a three foot drop to the floor more than once or twice. And lot of them aren't what they seem. If you are going to get one, get a good shake or dynamo light, don't waste time with crap.

-MX-991/U military flashlight,
They were ok in 1970. In 2008, you have to actually try to do worse- they are freakishly heavy for the light they throw, there is no excuse to need D cells in your pack at this point. You can get a light with the same brightness and duration that runs on a pair of AAs or AAAs now that weighs less loaded than a set of batteries for this thing. And that uses LEDs as well, so you never need to worry about the shitty bulb in this thing breaking. A headlamp would be better.

> 4ea 12hr chem lights, 2ea 8hr chem lights
Pull a couple out and replace them with one or two electronic light sticks. I like the Krills, they aren't the brightest but they are comparable to a chemlight about a quarter of the way through it's service and they run for a couple of days on two alkaline AAs. The Glo-toob is smaller and brighter and can survive literally be shot out of a cannon, but the battery is a little harder to find. The Garrity and similiar cheap ones work, but they are disposable and not very happy after getting wet. All of them have two advantages over a chem light- they can be turned off, and even if you leave them on they last longer.

Other things:
-Signals are ok, but I'd like to see a mirror and/or a hi-viz panel as well. Strobes don't work as well during the day. But, you are an order of magnitude better off on signals than most people are.
-No tarp. Even a couple of large garbage bags (which you should have anyway) will go a long way. Avoid the mylar sheets, they are worthless in my experience, but the sportsman/casualty blankets of woven nylon with "mylar" one side are extremely good. The AMK Heatsheet is the same size as the mylar sheets, and while not as good as the much larger and heavier ones is leaps and bounds better than the mylar. The Heatsheet is also orange, so it will do as a signal panel.
-Repackage your duct tape. Add some zipties and some wire for mending and improvising, along with a couple of needles big enough to take dental floss or fishline.
-No fish gear other than the gill net. Did I miss something? Gill nets do produce more than hooks do as rule of thumb, but there are times when it doesn't hold true. An small thing of tackle and a couple of sewing machine bobbins of braided line will help, and will have enough room to also put a good sewing kit in.
-I saw a mention from your canteen to a gas mask. OK if your canteen is issue, but if you are out of the military unless you have a specific and immediate need for a gas mask, I put CBR gear into the same category as NODs and rigid body armour- if you need it in your BOB, you need to either be in a war zone or to rethink your tactics and priorities.
-Swap some of your MREs for freeze dried stuff- you can get three meals of freeze dried into the same space as one MRE and it weighs less. And strip your MREs down. You don't need all the accessory kits and the things are over packaged. You should also have a brew kit.
-I didn't see anything for water purification. I'd put that ahead of a tent.
-The little "sleeping bag" is bulky for what it is, put it in a compression sack and if need be sit on it while someone tightens the straps. Or just replace it with something like the Thermolite bivy. Smaller, lighter, more effective.
-Axes are a personal thing, but I want you to honestly evaluate your need for one. They are heavy, and if you aren't on the ball, a hell of a lot more dangerous than a lighter saw is, or even a chopper like a machete or a kukri. You also don't have the means to keep it sharp with what I see here, and a dull axe is more dangerous than a dull knife. If your plan is to get to the "great uncharted and build a cabin", you need to seriously rethink your plans, as in just start over. There are places and times where you pretty much do need one, but I'm not sure South Carolina is one of them.
-You need the ability to carry more water, there is no two ways about it. Water is heavy, but it is critical.
-Socks
-Spare glasses if someone needs them, safety glasses if they don't- easier to prevent an eye injury than to "deal" with one.
-Other than the toothbrushes, I didn't see much in the way of hygine. I don't means razors and deodorant, I mean soap. Keeping your skin clean keep you warm and the germs outside of you.
-Spare batteries.
-Unless your get out of dodge plan has a specific need for radios, dump them. CB is dead, and I've yet to see a FRS that was worth beans (line of site and over used, so crap range and no security). You'll get more value out of a small AM/FM set that has SW or weather capabilities, in all honesty, as it is an intell source. If you really want two-way, you can get SW smaller than the CB and has decent range- the entry level license has had morse and most of the technical stuff pulled out, at this point is easier than getting a drivers license.
-Toilet paper. Everyone forgets the toilet paper.

I'll be honest. I think you've got a good start, but there is a hell of a lot that could improved by using modern technology and non-USGI gear in a lot of places, but there is very little here that I think is honestly bad (other than your flashlights). I think a serious re-eval of your gear is critical given the current weight of your pack and the admitted short comings of your gear, and possibly some adjustments to your plan, or with shelter and proper water it will be heavy enough to be a liability. And you seriously need to hike with the pack over webgear and vest combo, it sounds like trouble waiting to happen.

I like the pack, it isn't USGI, so you are less likely to be mistaken as AWOL or a "nutball survivalist" by authorities when combined with your other gear. Other than the web gear (which might be manageable), nothing here really sticks out. Which is a good thing.
"Even if it's only the handful of people I happen to meet on the street or in my home, I can still protect them with one sword."

When a man go no longer speak without malice intended lest he cause offense, that is when truth starts to die.

There are three kinds of man- Man the Toolmaker, Man the Tool User, and man the tool.

User avatar
ToddGray
* * *
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ
Contact:

Post by ToddGray » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:09 am

Great advice from someone I can only tell, is a BOB master (that would be you ironraven)

I should describe my current bug out plan: Yes, I currently reside in Charleston, SC (the AFB to be exact), however, my BOLs are in the Phoenix, AZ and Palm Springs, CA areas (reasoning, other than family being there: nice open and mountainous terrain... :sigh: home). Which as you can tell puts me an entire country away, thorugh all sorts of terrain and weather. Unless the PAW comes around due to the foretold zombie attack, I, personally, believe that there are going to be a few really good warning signs; so my initial bug out will be an attempt by motor vehicle (and a shitload of gas cans). I have no problem dropping the car and walking if necessary. Unfortunately... and for that matter, fortunately, I have a wife and 2 children so someone's gotta carry all that stuff (the kids aren't old enough yet and the wife's BOB is more of a work in progress than mine... until we get some more stuff). There is probably a hole here and there in the plan, go ahead and post or PM if you want me to clarify something.

Wistle - noted and I'll second the reason

Zippo fuel - currently 2 5oz bottles, I don't keep them in the bag for safety reasons (if they leak, I have a giant, flamable, survival bag. Bics, however, are definately an add.

pencil flares - can be used for many things: perimeter intrusion detectors, bonfire starters, bear defense, and, of course, signaling. The flares I'm looking into are more like VERY bright bottle rockets that burn for a few more seconds mid-air. And so we're on the same page, the bear defense is more of a wistler firework... it puts off about 110dB and tests show that it scares the shit out of bears, wild or tame. But if you really think its a bad add, I can always scrap that idea.

Unfortunately, I'm currently recovering from knee reconstructive surgery, so no, I haven't taken the kit out for a hike yet. As soon as I can, though, I will. I'll probably make it a test run for the gear as well, like the Mock Bug Out planned for April.

I'll consider the new harness, but for now, it's what I got, so I gotta deal with it. I would like a better one though, so I can let the wife use the web gear.

IFAK - noted, thanks. Is your advice still the same, now knowing at least part of my bug out situation?

Water stufts - Abosolutely, I'm currently in the market for some really good pills (as in, not iodide and stabilizer) and the MSR pump and bag I saw Gunny using. As for on-the-fly water bottles, the beaners on the straps of my bag are water bottle holders, and when the rubber goes to hell, I'll use the beaners to hold nalgenes (which I plan to get within the next few months).

I have always been taught to be a bit more conservative with the amount of info I give out (in public) about weaponry; the more information you put out there, the more information someone has to/will use against you. Suffice it to say, I am not defenseless, to say the least.

The sewing kits are pretty much for the threads, I have my own needles.

As they say, a full canteen is a silent canteen... and it goes the same for the mess kit. I can put more in it, but you're absolutely right. If you have a mess kit, fill it up with something other than air, otherwise, its waisted space.

I wouldn't say I need the bible, but what else is gonna keep the family sane and full of hope if TSHTF. Beleiving in something will keep one going in even the most dire of circumstances... I just happen to choose the Judeo-Christian path.

And the only place where I disagree with you is that manual. I would rather have the whole thing, and not need it, than have part of it, and need the other part.

Maps - I would absolutely love a better map, the only problem is finding enough maps that could get me across the country and still save space in my pack. I'm thinking I should pick up some US aviators maps from my pilots. Someone said before that those have all the information I need plus some radio info that would be useless in the PAW. But for now, the plan is to go west and a low detail map is at least better than nothing.

I knew the toothbrushes would come back, lol. Simple math... 4 people times 2 brushes = 8 brushes (I know, I'm being feciscious). That leaves 2 extra, just in case (you can make a mean prison shank outta 2 brushes too... please don't do it though). Good call on the baking soda.

Spandoflage is great... until it rips for whatever reason. I'll probably get a couple of these, and keep the compact just in case (it has a nifty mirror in it too)

Flashlights/torches/glow sticks - Let me list all of 'em: D-cell Mag w/ LED conversion, iNova 5 LED 123-cell, MX-991/U w/ filters (never know if you don't want people seeing your light), plenty of spare batteries for them all that are regularly rotated. The Faraday is an absolute backup light, I don't plan on using it if I don't have to, so it will sit in it's waterproof pouch until then.

Mirrors - compass, camopack, I do need more though.

Bingo on the heatsheet, thanks JIM for pointing that out as well. Other tarps are currently in use, but I'll grab a few more just in case.

Fishing gear - I've got a small kit and will definately throw that in too.

Socks and clothes in general - I currently wear them (and I'm required to iron so I can't pack them just yet. But I do plan on getting a lot more socks.

Soap - I would like to find some odorless soap, but that venture is seeming harder and harder, now that most everyone wants to smell flowery or cocoa buttery.

TP - yup, need to get some... which reminds me... I need more TP

Thnaks guys, keep the advice flowing.

ToddGray

Squirrley
* * * * *
Posts: 6672
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:35 pm
Location: Boulder, CO/Trinidad, CO

Post by Squirrley » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:20 pm

As a flashlight whore, I would say definitely get rid of that old surplus thing, and probably the faraday light too. A good LED headlamp, and a good, bright flashlight(like of the 'tactical' variety) is all you really need, and if you get good stuff you won't need any more backups. Really they're both the same thing, so you've got the whole 2 is 1, 1 is none thing covered, but with the added benefit of the different designs.
Gundown wrote:Then I saw the bear and thought... holy shit this rum is fucking awesome!
Image

User avatar
TheFreakinBear
* * * * *
Posts: 3165
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:32 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Trilogy, Boondock Saints, 300, Snatch, Ghostbusters, Ice Age.
Location: TheOmegaMan.org
Contact:

Post by TheFreakinBear » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:25 pm

squirrley wrote:As a flashlight whore, I would say definitely get rid of that old surplus thing, and probably the faraday light too. A good LED headlamp, and a good, bright flashlight(like of the 'tactical' variety) is all you really need, and if you get good stuff you won't need any more backups. Really they're both the same thing, so you've got the whole 2 is 1, 1 is none thing covered, but with the added benefit of the different designs.
I agree with you as far as getting a good LED headlamp BUT if you've ever used one of those elbow military surplus flashlights, those things are durable as hell. As long as you've got a spare bulb in the bottom and have a couple extra batteries that should last you a long time. I had mine last me 5 months with constant use every day and I don't think I changed the batteries until I hit the 8month period during a 4 day training exercise which I happened to have a couple spare batteries anyway.
ImageImage

Squirrley
* * * * *
Posts: 6672
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:35 pm
Location: Boulder, CO/Trinidad, CO

Post by Squirrley » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:43 pm

My Coast taclight is durable as hell, also. LED, so no spare bulb needed. Its got good runtime, carrying it every day I haven't changed the batteries in a month or two. Also, a hell of a lot smaller and lighter, and so are the batteries. I bet it throws more lumens than the old surplus style, too.

I believe that there's lots of old gear and designs and such that work perfectly well in the modern day, but there are some things that are just silly old. With the sophistication of the LED, you've got to completely re-evaluate your choice in flashlight technologies. I know there's still quite a lot of lights that use xenon bulbs or whatnot, but lots of those are VERY bright and also very expensive. For the common flashlight, LED is by far the way to go. Its just way more efficient.
Gundown wrote:Then I saw the bear and thought... holy shit this rum is fucking awesome!
Image

User avatar
ToddGray
* * *
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ
Contact:

Post by ToddGray » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:55 pm

UPDATE

Bought 2 Nalgene 16oz wide-mouths, pealess wistle, 2 tubes of toothpaste, 10 30gal trashbags, 4 rolls of TP... stripped and compressed, and a few "crack" lighters... ziptied for safety, and the only roll of waxed non-woven/non-flavored floss. I also started rolling my 90MPH onto old Wally World gift cards. I also got my wife and my children a 2 person backpacker's mess/cooking kit by Coleman. They seemed to have upped the ante on the backpacker's supplies.

That taclight is definately tacticool; the only problem is the "AAA"s. I have pretty much settled on "AA" as my main source of power, as it is a good balance of voltage/current and size (the bigger the battery, the higher the current). Also note there will be 4 members of my bug out party so, if necessary, everyone can use a light (the faradays and crank lights are good for not using a limited resource IE "AA"s). So maybe I'll invest a little more money on the kinetic light sources, and scrap the Walmart special. Spare bulbs... thanks for mentioning it... I need more. And I have to agree with TheFreakin(insert whatever he's using here) on the MX-991; I've been using them since I was a little boy in the BSA, there's a clip on the side that lets you clip it to your gear while you're working. Plus, I just can't bear to give up the light filters... light discipline is more important than a lot of people think (zombies probably wont care, but looters will certainly know where you are).

User avatar
jamoni
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 14985
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: st louis

Post by jamoni » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:33 am

Regarding the plan to go cross country with wife and kids, I'd re-evaluate. Your first priority is to keep them safe. Toting them cross country in the PAW is not how I'd go about that. The rest of the family may just have to fend for themselves. I'd harden my home, then find a BOL much closer to your present location.
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...
squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.

User avatar
ironraven
* * * * *
Posts: 3009
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:31 am
Location: Vermont

Post by ironraven » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:38 am

ToddGray wrote:Great advice from someone I can only tell, is a BOB master (that would be you ironraven)
Bah, don't go chapping your lips on my ass. :P I'm just opinionated, and this is what I do rather than watch professional sports.

I'll be honest about your BOL- if you are in Charleston, forget that there is even a western bank to the Mississippi if you are doing it on foot. Find a short term location, and if it looks like it is going to turn into a long term or permanent situation, have skills to barter.

Since it sounds like your kids aren't just kids but munchkins, how long will it be until they can carry their own gear? Even just some of their clothes, their own whistle and flashlight, and a water bottle, will take that load off your back. With little kids, bugging out gets moved way the hell down the chain of events. How are you set up to support them, other than you carry everyone's toothbrushes? *grins* They makes a short range BOL even more important than your knee does, they change the situation radically.

Given your knee and the extended life support requirements of kids, you might want to think about a cart, like a hunter's two-wheeled model. You can lash a LOT of stuff to one, and set it up like a skier's pulk with shoulder straps. And with two adults (and leashes for the kids if needed :P) you can lift one over most things. It would also give you place to strap a childs seat or two if you've got REALLY little munchkins, or zip them into sleeping bags and strap them down to it. Inuit carried kids that way on dog sled for centuries just fine.

And as an alternative to the -991, check out the "MOLLE Light" made by Pentagon. It is a small, angle headed light that is fairly robust, runs on a single AA, and has a few filters, but it's throw is only so-so. There is what amounts to a miniature -991 that runs on 2 AAs and depending on the package has a full set of filters, but I'm not as happy with it's robustness. And there is always the MiniMag- there are LED conversions and production models, and plenty of ways to attach one to things, either to a shoulder strap or to a headband. In fact, there are a plethora of GOOD AA options out there, including some headlamps (Petzl, PrincetonTec and Brunton make very good ones, and there a bunch of decent-to-good ones). At the very least, I would explore an LED upgrade for your existing light, as it will extend your battery life which makes your spares "lighter"- you can't simply use the upgrade bulbs for the 2D Maglite, unfortunately, but there are some out there that aren't fiendishly expensive.

And I agree, settling on the AA is a good choice, but every time I've tried it I've been stuck with one or two items that really do need AAAs or CR123s. *shrugs* You can't confuse them very easily by touch, and there is enough out there now that runs as well on AAAs as simiiar items did on AAs ten years ago I'm not sure you can fully escape them. Hell, in ten years we'll probably be talking about AAs the way we talk about Cs and Ds now. But you can always escape Cs and Ds right now- bigger isn't always better.

And my opinion on flares is just that- my opinion. I think that there is a place for pyrotechnic signals, both day and night. But it is limited due to the dangers inherent to them, and to their bulk and cost compared to the limited number of uses compared to things like strobes and signal mirrors and panel. You mention using them as a perimeter device- some fishline, and a couple of jingle bells works just as well, takes up less space, and is easier to recover in the morning. The whistler sounds familiar, what are you looking at? Even though I'm not as excited about them, as I said they do have their place.

And I do have two items for you. I thought this was going to be a more rural kit, but for anything where you have to deal with people and their constructs, I like to have them. Personal preference mostly. One is a non-contact current detector- you can't tell if a power line is hot or dead, dead, dead by sight, but this can if you put it on the end of a stick and carefully reach out. The other item is what is called is a silcock key- it is the dingus that you use to open an exterior faucet that doesn't have the twist knob on it. Get a four-way model, there is more than one type. It lets you scrounge water if you have no other choice. Between the two, I'll be honest, the silcock key is more useful.
"Even if it's only the handful of people I happen to meet on the street or in my home, I can still protect them with one sword."

When a man go no longer speak without malice intended lest he cause offense, that is when truth starts to die.

There are three kinds of man- Man the Toolmaker, Man the Tool User, and man the tool.

User avatar
ToddGray
* * *
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ
Contact:

Post by ToddGray » Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:03 am

ironraven wrote:Bah, don't go chapping your lips on my ass. :P I'm just opinionated, and this is what I do rather than watch professional sports.
Don't worry 'bout the chapped lips... got me plenty of Blistex in the vest :P And I would rather be on your good side and continue the river of advice than your bad side and not get any.

"Advice, however, is just that. You don't have to heed it now, but you damn well better listen, 'cause you might need it later anyway."
- My Dad

Post Reply

Return to “Bug Out Gear”