Water Storage w/Lots of Pics! *Edit*

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

Erik
* * * * *
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Water Storage w/Lots of Pics! *Edit*

Post by Erik » Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:25 pm

Howdy, guys and gals!

I'm getting frustrated because it is absolutely impossible to get food-grade 55 gallon plastic drums within a hundred miles of my location. There's plenty of plastic drums that have been used to store toxic chemicals, but I need drums for long-term drinking water storage. The closest I could find in plastic were food-grade drums, but they held some kind of IV fluid and I don't know if they're safe for water storage.

Today, I found a guy who will sell me metal 55 gallon barrels with lids for only $8 apiece. They were used to store baby food, so they are safe. They are also coated on the inside with some kind of plastic. Unfortunately, they (and I) believe the barrels would eventually rust if water was stored in them for the long term. The fellow suggested putting a 55-gallon plastic liner on the inside to prevent that.

What kind of liner do you guys suggest? Are there some kind of liners I can get, say, at Lowes that are cheap? Do I have to worry about the plastic from the liners leeching into the water? Is it even possible that I'm wrong and that the coated barrels won't rust?

I am in need of answers, and you guys always have such good answers. :)

-Erik
Last edited by Erik on Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
ironraven
* * * * *
Posts: 3009
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:31 am
Location: Vermont

Post by ironraven » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:46 pm

If the plastic liners are intact and food grade, I don't see why they would degrade. If you wanted, you could look for the enamel that they use on stove tops- I don't know if there is anything fancy that makes it food grade.

Or maybe rhino line them- not sure if that is food grade either, but...
"Even if it's only the handful of people I happen to meet on the street or in my home, I can still protect them with one sword."

When a man go no longer speak without malice intended lest he cause offense, that is when truth starts to die.

There are three kinds of man- Man the Toolmaker, Man the Tool User, and man the tool.

User avatar
ZScott
* * * *
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:58 am
Location: Lincoln Nebraska

Re: 55 Gal. Water Storage Questions/Issues

Post by ZScott » Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:20 am

Erik wrote:Howdy, guys and gals!

I'm getting frustrated because it is absolutely impossible to get food-grade 55 gallon plastic drums within a hundred miles of my location. There's plenty of plastic drums that have been used to store toxic chemicals, but I need drums for long-term drinking water storage. The closest I could find in plastic were food-grade drums, but they held some kind of IV fluid and I don't know if they're safe for water storage.

Today, I found a guy who will sell me metal 55 gallon barrels with lids for only $8 apiece. They were used to store baby food, so they are safe. They are also coated on the inside with some kind of plastic. Unfortunately, they (and I) believe the barrels would eventually rust if water was stored in them for the long term. The fellow suggested putting a 55-gallon plastic liner on the inside to prevent that.

What kind of liner do you guys suggest? Are there some kind of liners I can get, say, at Lowes that are cheap? Do I have to worry about the plastic from the liners leeching into the water? Is it even possible that I'm wrong and that the coated barrels won't rust?

I am in need of answers, and you guys always have such good answers. :)

-Erik
http://www.geoduck.com/epicenter/order. ... =%%cart_id%%
try this link :D
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.
Just Trying to Pass on some Wisdom.
Anyone who thinks any sort of PAW will be glamorous, fun, or exciting... has dramatic reality issues.

herbalpagan
* * * * *
Posts: 1656
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:13 am
Location: Western MA
Contact:

Post by herbalpagan » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:27 am

personally, for my drinking water, I wouldn't take a chance. I would go with a net search and purchase a couple and not have to worry again.
One thing you may think of, is going to a garden center and find a rainbarrel. These may not advertise as being food grade, but since they are for holding water, they should be close enough! Also, thinking about it, in Australia and many other places, they use metal to hold water...but unless you have a place to store them that you don't mind getting wet, I'd still go with the plastic.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/shtfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
lefty
* * *
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:25 pm
Location: North florida

Post by lefty » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:57 am

You may want to find out who made the drums and ask the manufacturer of them if they were food grade then they should have data sheets on them.
Everything you really need to know can be learned from old westerns. Ride tall, speak the truth and shoot straight.

Erik
* * * * *
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Post by Erik » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:54 am

Folks, thanks for the suggestions so far. Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy the plastic barrels new. The website above charges $61 per barrel, plus $77.32 for shipping. In short, I would have to pay $138.72 per barrel and I need four barrels.

It is absolutely beyond my means to pay the $555 required for the four. They might as well be a million dollars. Again, there are no safe plastic barrels to be had in the area. There are only safe metal barrels and they are dirt cheap.

By "liner," I was thinking something flexible, like a 55-gallon trash bag to make a barrier between the metal and the water. Would a trash bag work, or would it break down or leech too much? Is there some alternate kind of bag-style liner or some such thing I could use?

-Erik

Erik
* * * * *
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Bought metal barrels for water storage

Post by Erik » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:20 pm

Okay, I bought four of the metal 50 gal. barrels with lids and rings for a total of $32. They contained fruit juice concentrate, not baby food. The concentrate was probably frozen.

The interior of the barrels are coated with a very thin plastic barrier. That being said, I don't trust the barrier to be completely rustrproof, though the barrels are totally free of rust at the moment. I have some plastic 55-gallon drum liners that are basically glorified trash bags. Right now, I plan to line the inside of the barrels with those. I'll put one drop of bleach per .75 gallon in the barrel.

Presuming the some of the plastic leeches from the bag liner in to the water, what's the worst that can happen? Will I poison myself or will the water simply taste a little different? Or will the water taste exactly the same AND not poison me?

Thanks,

Erik

User avatar
meanstreak
* * *
Posts: 705
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:42 am
Location: Ohio

Post by meanstreak » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:29 pm

Have you thought of wax? You could use basic candle wax to coat them. It would take a few pounds but would certainly last a while.

Just a thought...Never tried it myself.
My blog - Bunker 19

"The only thing harder than preparing ahead of time is having to explain why you didn’t" - Gabe Suarez

What part of "Shall Not Infringe" do you not understand?

herbalpagan
* * * * *
Posts: 1656
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:13 am
Location: Western MA
Contact:

Post by herbalpagan » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:31 pm

Please don't! not only aren't trash bags food grade and they will leech, but the bleach, even a minute amount will make it worse! :shock: (plus the trash bags WILL leak.
I would go with it the way they are. If they held concentrated fruit juice they should be fine.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/shtfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Erik
* * * * *
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Post by Erik » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:26 pm

Well, they held FROZEN juice concentrate and there a few locations where the barrier has chipped off.....

-Erik

herbalpagan
* * * * *
Posts: 1656
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:13 am
Location: Western MA
Contact:

Post by herbalpagan » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:47 pm

I wonder if there is any kind of sealant or coating you can use that is food safe? There must be something or it wouldn't be on the can. I don't think it will rust..JMO. It's the air AND the moisture combined that makes things rust and there won't be any air getting to it.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/shtfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Erik
* * * * *
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Post by Erik » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:01 pm

herbalpagan wrote:It's the air AND the moisture combined that makes things rust and there won't be any air getting to it.
Good point.

herbalpagan
* * * * *
Posts: 1656
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:13 am
Location: Western MA
Contact:

Post by herbalpagan » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:42 pm

The more I think about this, the more sure I am that there must be a coating out there. Liquid polimer? hot glue? (lol) pool paint?
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/shtfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
milesdzyn
* * *
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Post by milesdzyn » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:07 pm

Do a goggle search for food grade epoxy, its the main product used for sealing cans and is good for water storage long term. It also holds up well to temp changes.

Miles

Ellie With An Axe
* * * * *
Posts: 3982
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:05 pm

Post by Ellie With An Axe » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:23 pm

Good luck with this. My parents at one time bought a food grade drum for water at some kind of gardening/hardware store, and it had previously stored jalapenos in it. They washed and scrubbed and bleached and used a liner and it never rid the thing of the jalapenos taste/smell. When Y2k came and went, they used the water for gardening.

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Post by crypto » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:55 pm

herbalpagan wrote: I don't think it will rust..JMO. It's the air AND the moisture combined that makes things rust and there won't be any air getting to it.
Negative. Rust is caused by oxygen. Water has plenty of oxygen in it, both dissolved from the air, and in the form of OH ions.

The titanic rusted out pretty good and it's been underwater for 80 years :D
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

User avatar
meanstreak
* * *
Posts: 705
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:42 am
Location: Ohio

Post by meanstreak » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:00 pm

LOL, Is there something wrong with wax? Would it not waterproof the can and cause no ill side effects?
My blog - Bunker 19

"The only thing harder than preparing ahead of time is having to explain why you didn’t" - Gabe Suarez

What part of "Shall Not Infringe" do you not understand?

User avatar
jmcanon92
* *
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:17 pm
Location: NJ

Post by jmcanon92 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:10 pm

Well, according to the old Civil Defense standards, a metal water barrel should have two 4 millimeter polyethyle liners and that should keep for at least 10 years.
http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmus ... water.html

Erik
* * * * *
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Post by Erik » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:17 pm

Okay folks - I finally have my water storage in line with where I want to be. I know people like photos, so here are some.

As stated previously, I went with the metal barrels, since it's impossible to find food-grade plastic barrels around here that didn't have something potentially toxic in them, like IV cocktails (the most common around here). I was forced to buy metal barrels, which ran $8 each. I bought four.

Image
Here they are in my truck. I know you wish your truck looked at good as mine.

Image
Here are the four barrels. One black, three red.

Image
The barrels were used to store frozen fruit juice concentrate. They have a layer of water seal inside of them, though the water seal was slightly compromised in a few places. That means when I drink the water a year from now, it will probably kill me. :shock:

Image
The manufacturing date of the barrel, which was quite recently.

Image
A dirty barrel. It's not showing up well in the photo, but there's drops of sticky, purple concentrate everywhere.

Image
A barrel directly after it was washed out. Notice the water beading up on the hopefully waterproof seal.

Image
Cleaned out drum. It looks nice, doesn't it?

Image
Filling with water from the hose. The barrels hold fifty gallons.

Image
A full barrel. I added just under 1/3 cup bleach to each barrel. At times, I found stuff like bits of grass floating at the top of the water from when the barrels were drying. I just scooped them out. The bleach will do the rest.

Image
Here's the kind of lid and ring provided. Because the rings were used, they were a bit bent and it was not easy to get them back into decent shape. The rings are tightened by a bolt and nut, which really crank the lids down hard.

Image
Also, I've been storing 2-liters full of water. I've used one drop of bleach per 2-liter. Each tote contains eighteen 2-liters, or 9 gallons of water. I wanted some smaller ones for ease of use and portability. With some grunting, I can carry a whole tote out to the car. To prepare the 2-liters, I just cut the label off, poured in a little water, shook the bottle, and repeated 2 more times.

Image
My water storage. In addition to the 25 gallons I've got stored in my PAW closet for easy access, I now have four 50 gallon drums, four totes with 9 gallons each, and an 80-gallon water heater. That totals 341 gallons of drinking water. Assuming my wife and I use 1.5 gallons each per day, that would last us 113 days, or just short of 4 months. That should be enough! If it's not, I give up!

I'll let you know in a year what the insides of the barrels look like. I'll also try some of the water and my wife promises to log on and inform you if I die as a result. :lol:

I just realized I have no clue how I'm going to switch the water out in a year. I have no drain in my garage. :oops:

-Erik

Erik
* * * * *
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Post by Erik » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:23 pm

jmcanon92 wrote:Well, according to the old Civil Defense standards, a metal water barrel should have two 4 millimeter polyethyle liners and that should keep for at least 10 years.
http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmus ... water.html
Woah there!!! Most modern trash bags are polyethelene. Does that mean the 3-mil drum liners I got would have worked??

-Erik

User avatar
jmcanon92
* *
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:17 pm
Location: NJ

Post by jmcanon92 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:30 pm

If I am interpreting it properly, acording to the Federal Civil Defense Guide Part D, Chapter 2, Appendix 1, Annex 1, December 1965 a water drum with 2 liners that are 4 mil each should last more than ten years. Of course, it says that if sorage conditions are less than optimal aka, your basement , storage life drops to about 5-8 years.

herbalpagan
* * * * *
Posts: 1656
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:13 am
Location: Western MA
Contact:

Post by herbalpagan » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:42 pm

you can get most of the water out by siphoning I would think, or borrow a small pump from someone. Looks like a good, well thought out set up. :)
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/shtfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ellie With An Axe
* * * * *
Posts: 3982
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:05 pm

Post by Ellie With An Axe » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:51 pm

Erik wrote:Image
My water storage. In addition to the 25 gallons I've got stored in my PAW closet for easy access, I now have four 50 gallon drums, four totes with 9 gallons each, and an 80-gallon water heater. That totals 341 gallons of drinking water. Assuming my wife and I use 1.5 gallons each per day, that would last us 113 days, or just short of 4 months. That should be enough! If it's not, I give up!

I'll let you know in a year what the insides of the barrels look like. I'll also try some of the water and my wife promises to log on and inform you if I die as a result. :lol:

I just realized I have no clue how I'm going to switch the water out in a year. I have no drain in my garage. :oops:

-Erik
That looks nice, and the barrels look pretty darn good. Did you do a taste test now to see if it's cranberry flavored? :) I'm willing to bet that these will hold for a year and more. But you got a great deal for the storage, anyway. It'd be a good place for other things, if not the water.

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Post by crypto » Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:02 pm

Erik, one option for you to get is replacement barrel tops that have bungs in them. A bung is just a small threaded hole in the lid where they pour the liquid out a little more manageably than by removing the lid entirely.

Anyway, the reason you should get a bunged lid is that there are bung siphon pumps that sit over the bung hole (HAH I FINALLY GOT TO SAY IT!) and let you pump the water out easily.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Contingency Planning & Preparation”