Bug out Shelters. 56k Warning

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

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Bug out Shelters. 56k Warning

Post by Woods Walker » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:12 am

Bug out Shelters.

So you have bugged out. Now what? You had to bail on the homestead; maybe it was on fire, under water ala New Orleans style or overrun by zombies and walking scarecrows. Don’t know but the decision not to go to the “convention center” is a good one. So now you’re in the middle of the sticks and everything you own is on your back. Will the weather be in the 70s and sunny? Maybe but then again maybe not. You can’t cancel your trip because of bad weather as we aren’t talking about Jellystone Park here. It doesn’t matter the season, they all have their own challenges and opportunities. Mother Nature doesn’t care who will survive or go belly up. If unprepared and panicked it doesn’t take a degree from Harvard to work out the potential consequences. Here are a few shelter options and tips that might be of help.

Tarp.

Pros:

The tarp is a bit misunderstood in the world of shelters. Often people associate its lack of a floor, sides (depending on pitch) and integral support structure with that of a marginal shelter at best. However this isn’t the case with many AOs. This sounds counterintuitive for sure but hear me out. I can pitch a tarp in multiple configurations to work with nearly any footprint available. A tarp will not trap water inside which can be the case with many tents using waterproof bathtub floors. Any water carried in on your body or clothing remains, condensation can also be trapped. A tarp will dry out much fast when the weather lifts. I can setup a fire near my tarp to trap heat and dry gear. Tarps are the most packable shelter system going. An ID siltarp 5X8 Siltarp 1 is under 10 oz seam sealed and packs down to the size of a soda can.

Cons:

Often greater attention must be given to drainage and wind direction than with a tent not that these factors should be ignored using any shelter. Bugs and windblown rain/snow can be a problem. Proper pitching methods and additions such as a bug net or fire can help mitigate these issues. Sleeping out with just a tarp in my view requires a greater degree of skill.

Photos:

8x10 siltarp setup as flying A-frame setup. I used a wood stove scooted under the tarp but a camp fire will also work in the cold. Just be careful not to burn your tarp or gear. When it comes to tarps bigger is often better.

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Some tarps are shaped for easy setup.

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A poncho works as a fast tarp shelter too.

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Bivy tarp combo.

Pros:

Fast set up and can be lower profile than some other shelter types. Bivy/tarps combo packs down small and depending on bivy can be faster to exit. You can reduce weight/bulk by exchanging a urethane tarp/poncho for silnylon. For the most part when it comes to tarps bigger is often better but even a poncho adds greatly to the livability of the system.

Cons:

A Bivy tent is more claustrophobic, offers less visibility and often employs poles which can increase its bulk. On the flip side your head is protected from windblown rain/snow. A standard bivy sack is easier to get into, often more UL and you can see in all directions. But mosquitoes suck (pun intended) and you’re more exposed to snow/rain. It is possible to use most bivy tents without the poles however. A bivy can range from 5 oz to over 3 lbs, toss in a tarp and the system could be over the weight of many UL backpacker tents.

Photos:

Gortex Bivy tent setup under a tarp, in this case a Golite Poncho.

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MSS Gortex bivy with poncho tarp setup for a fast shelter.

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Hammock.

Pros.

A good Hammock like my HH Explore DLX with Super shelter system offers protection from the elements with comfort. In some AOs it can be easier to find two properly spaced trees than a flat dry footprint. They setup very fast and as stated there is more flexibility with issues such as drainage, rocks, mud etc. For me this is the most comfortable 3-season shelter going. If your rainfly is larger a hammock system can be much like a tarp shelter but with a 2nd story. Hammock shelters can be more UL than some other options.

Cons:

The Hammock is higher profile than the bivy but blends in well with CB. Hammocks seem to work best in 3 seasons though can be made to work in winter. The problem with winter hammock camping is one of diminishing returns. Often the weight of fully winterizing a hammock brings me into the realm of other shelter types which simply function better in extreme cold. If your hammock doesn't have a bug net there could be issues. There is a learning curve and despite those who find it the most comfortable shelter going others simply don’t. Not every shelter works for everybody.

Photos:

Hennessy Hammocks.

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Tent.

Pros:

Most tents have a clearly defined footprint and setup procedure. They offer a greater degree of protection from increment weather than a tarp for most users. There are many options ranging from UL 3-season to heavier 4-season systems. Some are free standing and others need supports be it poles or tie-offs. Some are double walled, others single. So nearly anyone can find something that works for best for their needs. Most can setup a tent the first time out with reasonable results. Many people feel more psychologically comfortable inside a tent and moral can't be underrated. They're great during bug season.

Cons:

Most tents are locked into the shape/footprint dictated by the design. This reduces the flexibility, basically if the environment doesn’t work with your tent often a person needs to move on. If the tent has a waterproof floor and the weather remains wet for an extended period it’s possible to trap water inside and without the sun to dry things out you’re kinda up the creek without a paddle. Many tents offer little visibility to the outside world.

Photos:

Eureka Timberline.

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Eureka USMC 2-man shelter.

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Golite Hex.

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Tents to avoid:

Cheaper tents that use tarp material for the floor, inadequate rainfly and non waterproof sides are a disaster waiting to happen. The poles are often fiberglass which is inferior to aluminum. Granted these shelters will offer marginal protection from the wind, block the sun and keep bugs away but if it rains expect to be flooded. Wet and cold is a bad start to any day. On a side note covering the shelter with a larger tarp can make them usable.

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Heated shelters.

Pros:

During winter below the tree line these are hard to beat. The primary advantage is the use of wood to heat the shelter, boil water, dry clothing/gear and cook in nearly any weather within reason. Anyone who has been cold and wet knows just how nice it feels to go into a warm house. Basically these are packable warm homes in which a person can even take a warm sponge bath in -20F temps. Often a campstove is redundant as the tent stove does double duty plus never runs out of fuel. It just doesn’t get any better during winter. They will also work in warmer weather without the stove.

Cons:

Even the most packable UL system is heavier than other shelter types. There is a greater degree of skill required to operate the stove and pitch the tent. Most have no floors and it’s very possible for bugs to slip inside. Many aren't free standing which can be an issue on thin soil. It takes more time to setup the stove, cut wood and pitch the tent than pitching other shelter types.

Photos

Kifaru 4-man. This is around 10lbs with stove.

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Kifaru Paratipi. Guessing around 6lbs with stove.

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Conclusion:

Granted a well stocked home surrounded by people you trust is the best shelter going but having other options available isn’t a bad idea. Exposure is a death of a thousand cuts.
Last edited by Woods Walker on Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Post by kyle » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:20 am

Do you have any links or other information for heated shelters? I'm interested.


I love my Hennessy Hammock and can't wait to try it out this winter.

Here it is pictured at Z-con. I was the only person at camp who slept mostly level all weekend. :)

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I'm sure it must be better than sleeping in the snow like I usually do:

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Hammock

Post by Woods Walker » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:28 am

Yea the hammock is the best. For winter get that 4 season system and add to your jacket under the open cell mat. The extra Sil bottom cuts the wind out too.

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Better than sleeping in the snow. By far. If you don't get the 4 season than put a closed cell ground pad inside the hammock. I don't know how cold you have used the hammock in. Even for spring and fall you can get cold back.

Here are some places that offer heated shelters. That can be packed by one person. My paratipi takes up very little pack room for the protection it offers. Goes in my Bug out ruck along with a large sil tarp.

http://www.kifaru.net/TIPI.HTM

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/

You can make your own out of a Megamid and homemade stove jack.

http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/ ... .cfm/BD102

Or even some tarps. I did.

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You can even make your own stove. I have a Kifaru stove but created this very small 4-6 lb model (based on what I add to it). It fits in a molle side pocket.

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Kifaru small stove inside 4 man tipi. Yes this could fit in a Bug out Ruck. A bit much for a smaller BOB. A under 10 lb central heated home with range top cooking that packs down small. Stove is the pack size of a small lap top and is 3 lbs 1 oz. Tipi tent is about 6 lbs for the 4-man. 3 lbs for the two man paratipi.

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The best part of the stoves is the foil pipe that backs down to nothing. A 5-7 foot pipe could fit in a smaller stuff sack
Last edited by Woods Walker on Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Ivan » Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:13 am

There is a guy who has made some great inovations for use with the hennesey for extreme winter use. I will post the link later when I find it.

He came up with a great insulated bottom piece that slides out of the way when intering the hammock.

If you use these, you should be able to use your hennesy no mater what the weather is like, except maybe gale force winds.
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Post by Woods Walker » Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:25 pm

Ivan.

Hammock is great in heavy winds. Just need to make a storm pitch for the fly. The hammock it self can't blow over as it is already airborn. :) However a few times I did get some extra lift from the wind

This may be the company you are talking about.

http://www.jacksrbetter.com/

However Tom's 4-season system is good because I can add insulation to it. The added insulation will not get compressed

http://www.hennessyhammock.com/

Anyone here ever try the Clark Hammock?

http://www.junglehammock.com/deluxefeatures.php

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Post by Gunny » Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:27 pm

Here's a perfect example of a well thought out, informative post. Thanks Woods :)

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Post by wolverine » Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:30 pm

I usually use a poncho close to the ground or as a lean to. It works for me and is quick to set up or break down

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If I find myself without one I guess I would have to go old school as below

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Post by Tomcat1066 » Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:43 pm

Great post Woods. Very informative.

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Post by Woods Walker » Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:23 pm

Gunny, Tomcat.

Thanks

wolverine

Nice Old school lean-to.
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Post by misanthropist » Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:56 pm

Hey, Woods Walker - could you maybe give us some detail shots of your stove and jack? They look awesome.

I guess the stove and scavenging chamber are nesting? What did you make it all out of? Details please!!!
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Post by Woods Walker » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:40 pm

Before I get more into the heated shelters I think a standard fire warning is called for. People should think of fire as a dangerous animal. You are using it but the fire is really using you. It demands respect and unlike most people it will never respect you back. For anyone reading this NEVER bring fire into a shelter until you understand that. If anyone brings fire into their tent and does not vent the CO you will DIE. What is worse CO poisoning will sneak up on you. By the time you find out something is wrong you are DEAD. So never bring an open fire like a grill or even most camp stoves or propane lights into your tent. Just because you got lucky one night does not mean you will be around for the end of the next. A Native American TIPI can support an open fire but this shelter is more complex than most people would suspect.

A few years back I tried for a weeklong winter camp out to test my pack. We had a record cold snap. The temps fell down to –11 with –30 wind chill. I discovered a few things. Gortex is not a wonder fabric. Wind chill is killer as some guy in New Hampshire died doing to same thing I was at the same time. Spooked me out later on. But his wind chill was –50. The cold will slowly suck the life out of you. By the 5th day I crawled out. Got lucky. Just a little mild frostbite on the toes and my ears. My –15 down sleeping bag saved my life for certain. So I decided to look into a better way.

My first year using the heated shelter was fantastic. Did another week trip and made out great. Had some nights of sub zero but that didn’t matter. Even got sick with food poisoning and pulled though great. Was able to run out when nature called (every 20 minutes) and didn’t even put my boots on. Just walked back out of the freezing rain into my 80-degree tent.

Misanthropist

The pipe is not nested. The pipe is a durable stainless foil that rollups into a package 14 inches long by only 3 inches wide. The pipe weight about 2 oz per foot. It is held together by wire loops and a wing nut. The stove was made out of 20 gauge 316 stainless steel. The legs are made for 10/24 stainless stock. The stack robber is my creation. It was made out of a Stainless kitchen storage container. I used stainless steel wire screen for a spark arrester. The stack robber has a built in baffle plate and stainless mess screen. This creates a re-burning of hot gases in a second combustion chamber. It kills all sparks to reduce pin holes in the tent. I rolled the stove's body and welded it. Cut the door and back with a circle shear. I also have a damper so I can control the heat out put.

Here is a close up of the stove.

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The robber.

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The stove jack is a fiberglass welding shield. Fiberglass range fireproofing works too.

The tarp shelter was built on site. Out of 3 Wallyworld brown tarps with reflective underside.

If you want to make your own shelter I would suggest using a floorless winter tarp type shelter. A tent with a floor will just burn and not allow in any air. So you will DIE. Here are some shelters that can be modified.

Pyramid tarp

http://www.owareusa.com/tents.html

The BlackDiamond Mid tents

http://www.bdel.com/gear/tents_overview.php

The link to Ti Goat sells a stove jack that can be put on these shelters for about 30 dollars.

You can buy heated shelters from Kifaru or Ti goat. Kifaru sells tipis for 2 -16 man sizes. They are low profile.

Look at how my 4-man in CB vanishes into the bush.

Right next to the shelter.

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Now go back about 100 feet and see how the CB with shadows helps the shelter blend into the woods. Sometimes being not seen is best.

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You can buy a stove that is under 3 lbs and packs down to nothing from the same two companies that sell the shelters. You can see a pic of my Kifaru stove a few posts back.

With a tarp shelter I got the temps about 40 degrees about the outside temp. With my paratipi I can get temps about 130 above the outside and in the 4-man tipi 100 above the outside can be done. I like to keep it about 70 with the outside temps in the teens. I am working on something real crazy. Based on the Camp Fire Shower:

http://www.zodi.com/campfire.html

I am going to make a new coil system and have a hot water shower powered by the stove. Just because I may need to Bug out is no reason to give up central heat, Stove top cooking and running hot shower for under 12 lbs (4-man tipi, stove and shower system) that packs down small.

Oh and floorless shelters have some real advantages. You can walk into your shelter with your boots on. Air can get in. No floor to trap water. No need to remove rocks etc before setting up. The shelter has reduced weight. I just take along a small tarp for my ground pad and bag. Only issue is bugs but this helps:

http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/ ... cfm/EQ3050

You can also sew bug netting door or purchase bug net doors for the two commercial shelters. They work well if you kick leaves etc around the gaps in the shelter's base. You can use snow in the same way to reduce drafts but keep a vent open.

The commercial take down stove needs to be stoked 4 times an hour. My homemade one about 3 times an hour. A damper will help with this but feeding the stove is fun and what else do you have to do. They burn very little wood. I can run the stoves all day on two 5-gallon buckets of wood. This is a big deal. Getting firewood can be a pain in the ass. Even worse at night and down right hard during a storm. The stove can help dry out your boots and clothes. Plus if you put wet wood under the stove it helps. So a clothesline near the top is a big help. This is the hottest part of the shelter. Nothing beats warn dry socks.

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Post by rutwistedlikeme » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:59 am

Thanks woods walker.Very imformative post,stove is awesome,it will definatly help us out up here in N.H.

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Post by Woods Walker » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:15 pm

rutwistedlikeme

Here is a pic of a stove mod on a moutain hardware Kiva tent. Good luck.

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http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_deta ... 4302871984

Here is why a 7-foot pipe can pack down to 14 inches long by 3 inches wide.

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I hope that clear up some of the stove jack and pipe questions.

Edit to add photos and I suck at spelling.
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Post by mr.trooper » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:23 pm

kyle wrote:Do you have any links or other information for heated shelters? I'm interested.


I love my Hennessy Hammock and can't wait to try it out this winter.

Here it is pictured at Z-con. I was the only person at camp who slept mostly level all weekend. :)

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I'm sure it must be better than sleeping in the snow like I usually do:

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Kyle, i take back all the semi-mean things I said about you. That hammock is serioulsy bad ass. :)
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Post by evilpsych » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:56 pm

Hot Damn! that little stove you made is tits man!.

I'm interested more in how you manufactured it, any thoughts on creating a better writeup including the robber.. might be worth posting to zen stoves..
At least I'm not boring..

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Post by Woods Walker » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:39 pm

evilpsych

I tried to explain the robber on hunting forms but I sux at it so created the pic with the idea that a picture is worth a 1000 words. I think Zen stoves might like the trail stove mods (fan and X support) as they are more into smaller backpacking stove. But a light wood stove system adds about 3-6 lbs to any pack. Not a lot for all it offers. Here is a pic inside the homemade heated tarp shelter. I was made in the woods and took an hour to work out most of the issues. The wally world tarps are heavy but a large 8x10 or 10x12 sil tarp comes in at under a LB and with a stove jack from Ti Goat 30 bucks and sil nylon doors it could come together good.

10x12 tarp sil tarp for large gounded A frame with ridge line.

99 bucks

http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/ ... cfm/EQ1300

TI Goat jack

30 bucks.

Some 1.1 Ripstop to close off the ends of the A frame

Cheap.

http://www.owfinc.com/

Seems like a good project or just get one of thos floorless shelters and put a stove jack.

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edit

I am the big stupid one with the camo paints.
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Post by jamoni » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:53 pm

Great post/thread. Thank you.
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Post by Glockmeister » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:29 pm

Outstanding Post,..Very informative,...Thanks :!: :!:
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Post by aswrg7 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:02 pm

How about this hammock?
http://tinyurl.com/onp36

Not as nice as the Henessy, but the price is so much better, I think I could add some improvements (I already have a tarp and a poncho liner) and still come out ahead price-wise.

Besides, it's milsurp ripstop nylon, so it'll be tough as nails.
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Re: Bug out Shelters. 56k Warning

Post by mithuth » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:24 pm

While rummaging through the Best of Woods Walker's posts, I came to read up on some hammock and such. Sadly I found all the images gone. *weep*
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Re: Bug out Shelters. 56k Warning

Post by Woods Walker » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:46 pm

I will check into it and repair the links.
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Re: Bug out Shelters. 56k Warning

Post by rhunter1 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:04 am

Bumping again because I found myself looking through WW's best posts and the images still aren't up. Great information here nonetheless.

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Re: Bug out Shelters. 56k Warning

Post by Woods Walker » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:57 pm

Yea I need to fix those pics. :oops: Come to think of it I should edit the text as well.
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Re: Bug out Shelters. 56k Warning

Post by 6UNF1GHTER » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:25 pm

I'm tagging this, and out of courtesy...
BTT, and hopefully it stays there for awhile!

Edit:
ASWRG7:
Your link is 404'd.
Is this what you are talking about?

Looking forward to seeing what is presented in this thread, possibly another ZS epic in the making!
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