rube79 wrote: 152dbs wrote:
in response to rube79
With out the correct and highly expensive modifications of the Saiga 12, its not worth it. not needed to protect a house
1. You will have to have the BC locked back inorder to load a magazine.load it 1 round less, then its not prob
2. The magazines are Free floating = dont grab = ftfnot sure what ur meaning...never thought a mag was a vertical grip
3. Unless you convert it to a pistol grip it kicks like a mule.nothing is changed in the gas system in the conversion
4. With the modification the magazine changes are 2-3x faster easy.nothing is changed w/ the mags or the mags release in the conversion
5. Must be broke in, because it does not like light loads at first.depends on the shotgun, and how well they did the ports...mine ate everything in site, like a fat kid with a bag of skittles
I have owned a Saiga 12
152dbs i dont think you have used/owned one. You will be amazed when i clarify what i was trying to say. ( im not the best w/ words )
This is for a non Modified Saiga 12
1. You must have the Bolt carrier locked back/all the way back in order to load a magazine. You can not load it w/ 1 less rd in the magazine, you must have the BC back w/ no rd in the chamber.
2. If you grab the magazine while firing there is a good chance of a failure to feed. Shit happens and chances are that you could fuck up. Using the mag as a VG is easy to do, even on accident. I use my mags as a VG w/ my AK, thus they are not FF mags.
3. The pistol grip adds a new point of contact and does reduce felt recoil on the shoulder.
4. With the proper modification to the mag well, mag reloads are now like your ARs. The BC does not have to be back and the magazine can be full w/ 1 rd in the chamber. This also means that you can place your VG even closer because you dont have an AK mag change.
5. I have shot 3 different new Saiga 12s that did not like light loads. Once broke in, we were able to shoot light loads w/o FTFs.
The Molot Vepr-12 come stock w/ all of these mods, but again we may never have these in the US.
Thats a friend's mod'ed Saiga 12 and its damn near as close to a Vepr-12 as you can get in the US. I wish i had the money for the mods and to short barrel it
Just as a point of clarification, you can convert a Saiga 12 back to it's original configuration for less than $100.
It is possible, I've done it and others have also, to load on a closed bolt. The trick is to push upwards at the proper angle WHILE setting the front lug. I've practiced it, but frankly in a firefight I would not do it. The standard rock and lock gets a mag changed quickly. Or spend $125 and get a magwell.
I don't know what a AK style 'free float' mag is
My S12 mags lock in just my AK mags do. I imagine the extra weight and length of the 12ga mag would preload the mag enough that any added pressure could cause problems. I have used the mag before as a VG and haven't had any problems, but I don't do it regularly.
Not sure about the pistol grip reducing felt recoil, you still have your hand on the standard stock. So your not adding another point of contact (unless you have a third hand
) Perhaps its just that you are in a more comfortable position with a better grip?
Breaking in a S12? so what? Many guns take a little breaking in. I usually take my guns apart and clean, lube, polish, etc. anyway. Or just shoot some full loads through it, done. If you have a "Vodka Special" then an adjustable gas valve might clear it up for you ($35)
Now you can spend a lot more money modding one (I know I have
) but then again you now own the worlds premier fighting shotgun. If a shotgun is not an important tool in your battery, buy a used, old school pump and be done with it.
If you think your ass may depend on it one day buy the best you can afford. I've seen many, many people with optics on their AR's that cost as much, if not more, than my heavily modded S12.
As to the OP, I use a handgun inside the house, the S12 for outside. Either would work for you in a typical HD situ.
But I don't count on "typical", so I would opt for the S12 and have the softer shooting, faster cycling, faster loading, more capacity of it working for me.
But hey, thats just me.