Storing gas

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polarbare
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Storing gas

Post by polarbare » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:54 pm

Tried a search, but couldn't really find an answer to the exact question. I am looking to purchase at least 2 "jerry cans" (flip top likely) and store them with fuel stabilizer. However, I live in an apartment. I do have an attached garage, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on the risks of fire from (possible) vapor from the tanks. I was planning on getting tanks that are sealed, filling them to the "slant" level and leaving them in the garage. When temps start to change (e.g. warm up), I was thinking about opening the tanks to relieve some of the pressure that develops. Any problems with the above thoughts?

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Post by CLEAR CUT » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:01 pm

That sounds good to me.

I store one five gallon gas can inside the house in the basement with stabil in it. I also occasionally purge that vapor from the container by opening the little yellow flip-top. That and I watch what I do around it, no flames or power tool usage around the gas cans. Now that these prices are going through the roof I've given serious thought to filling the second can I have for emergencies. I think that anything more than about ten gallons of gas in an approved plastic container could be a fire hazard.
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Post by rpc » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:26 pm

I suspect that storing gasoline in any quantity probably violates your lease.

Before considering storing cans of fuel, keep in mind that you already have one source of fuel storage--the vehicle's fuel tank. And the risks associated with that tank are about the same whether it is almost full, or almost empty. Do you always keep that tank full?

We have two vehicles, and I never let them get below 7/8 of a tank. As compared to someone who lets the tank get down to half, this means I probably have the equivalent of a Jerry can or two more than they do, with no additional risk, and with no worries about the fuel becoming stale.

I really don't see any advantage to storing cans of fuel, unless the vehicle is also stored with a full tank.

It does mean stopping at the gas station every day. But especially with "pay at the pump", it only takes a couple of minutes to top it off.

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Post by raptor » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:46 pm

Storing gasoline inside is very hazardous to you and venting the fumes into an closed room is equally dangerous. Read the caution notice on the side of the pump as to what benzine fumes can do to you. They are known carcinagens. Store it on the balcony, the parking lot, front door landing, behind a bush but not inside.

Honestly I would find someplace to store the gasoline outside or do what rpc mentioned and make sure at least 1 vehicle always has a full tank. Do not store the gas in the car's trunk either, in the event of a wreck and spill it would not be pretty for you and any other occupants.

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Post by UberMunchin » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:00 pm

raptor wrote:Storing gasoline inside is very hazardous to you and venting the fumes into an closed room is equally dangerous. Read the caution notice on the side of the pump as to what benzine fumes can do to you. They are known carcinagens. Store it on the balcony, the parking lot, front door landing, behind a bush but not inside.

Honestly I would find someplace to store the gasoline outside or do what rpc mentioned and make sure at least 1 vehicle always has a full tank. Do not store the gas in the car's trunk either, in the event of a wreck and spill it would not be pretty for you and any other occupants.
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Post by mrkash » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:11 pm

How long will treated gasoline safely last before it begins to break down.
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Post by raptor » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:38 pm

mrkash wrote:How long will treated gasoline safely last before it begins to break down.

There have been lots of discussion about this use the search function.

However, If you use Stabil (or similar fuel stabilzer) as directed on the bottle and keep the top tightly capped you are definitely good for about 1 year on (non-ethanol mix) regular fuel. Ethanol mix is likely shorter. Some will say 6 months others will cite using stored gas that 3+ years older. However, I think all will agree that properly treated and stored gas will last at least 1 year.

Chevron states on their web site that untreated gasoline properly stored will last a year.

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodser ... _gasoline/

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Post by cougar » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:25 pm

I use Stabil and used gas over a year old. I rotate it into my car, that way if it has stared going stale its delluted enough not to notice.
Clearcut, what the hells the matter with you??? Dont store gas in the house bud, thats bad ju ju. Any of the solvents or fuels ending with "ine or ene" is nasty stuff. Tolene, xylene, gasoline, rot your lungs.
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Post by The Highwayman » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:15 pm

+1 on outside storage...I myself, have built a seperate storage shed, approx. 60-70 feet from any other structures, amongst shade trees and covered with a canopy to avoid direct sunlight on it. I use "Pri-G" to stabilize my fuel, and it's advertised to keep fuel fresh for up to 3 years, at which time you can re-treat it. It is also advertised to "refresh" stale gas, but I have no experience with this. You can find it here-

PRI-G

They also make a stabilizer for diesel, as well.
I have not any complaints, with using stored fuel that was 2 + years old, using this. I just check during the summer, and vent the cans once a week or so....YMMV
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Post by toecutter » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:52 pm

Ok, here's my experience. I live in socal, where gas prices have been between 10 and 20% higher than the rest of the nation for quite a while. Granted, not as high as some, not as low as others. I keep a decent supply of gasoline in the metal european jerry cans (these are the type with the big fork locking mechanism, not the older screw top type). I have stored gasoline in these for over a year and have never had any issues (I store normal 87 octane, the winter blend stuff gives the best performance year round). These gas cans are very leak resistant, and if you filled them up on a cold day (as I usually do, gives me a bit more actual fuel for the dollar) they will burp a bit when you go to fill up a car on a warm day. The rest of the time there is little or no vapor coming out of these things. The trick is to fill them ALL THE WAY UP, this means there's nothing inside but liquid with just a tad of air on top. This keeps thermal expansion/contraction to a minimum. The thing that kills gas is the loss of volatiles, and the inclusion of water. Most of the PRI-G and STABIL are alcohols which absorb the water and take it into solution. This keeps it from damaging the gas by immediately locking the stuff chemically. When it comes to ethanol blended gasoline, this has essentially the same effect, a chemical which will bond with the water. The ethanol blends will actually last longer on the shelf than normal unblended gasoline. (same applies for MTBE gasoline)

I have stored fuel in both plastic and these metal containers, the plastic containers are next to worthless for long term fuel storage and highly recommend AGAINST using them for long term storage. Part of the rational for this is the caps on these are very weak, as well as the breather plug many of these tanks have. These will allow the container to respire, which will inevitably draw water in and ruin the gas. The ideal situation would be to have one of those large tanks which are normally used for home heating oil. These are designed to contain fuel for long periods (at least all winter). But since you live in an apartment this is not likely an option. If you live in a state outside california you shouldn't have any problem finding these. They are usually under $30, here in ca CARB likes to do type approval for gasoline containers, making sure they are utterly useless for putting gasoline into cars, or long term storage. They work great for your lawnmower, suck for everything else.

When I started this practice I lived in an apartment, and had enough room in the downstairs garage to store them. Now that I've moved back into a house, they sit on a shelf with the other flammables. My garage is pretty well ventilated, and I've never even got a hint of gasoline smell even on the hottest of socal days. If you have the ability to put them outside, in a shaded storage area, this is the ideal, unfortunately I don't have that luxury. The big thing is keeping temperature changes gradual, and keeping them out of the hot sun. Even in northern climes it can heat the temperature of a container well over 100 degrees on a sunny day. So keep all this in mind.
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Post by Capt Cook » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:18 am

Can you use Sta-Bil for Kerosene? I have quite a bit of K-1 Kerosene left over from last years Ice Storm. Some is in the 5 Gal plastic gas cans & some is in metal cans. Will Kerosene last any longer than gas?
The one 5 Gal metal can someone gave to me was full of Kerosene of unknown age & it worked fine in our heater.
Any info would be appreciated.
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Post by raptor » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:09 am

Stabil for gasoline will not work for kerosene. Check some of the diesel stabilizers since they are closer in chemical composition to kerosene.

I suspect that if are using the kerosene only as heater fuel a stabilizer is not necessary anyway. Not positive about that, but it would seem logical. Stale fuel is still flameable.

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Post by Flea » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:05 pm

I could be completely wrong but I thought most "newer" vehicles were equipped with some sort of anti-siphoning devices in their gas tanks...wouldn't that make it "harder" (not impossible) to get fuel out of the tank if you needed it?
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Post by raptor » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:12 pm

rflemen wrote:I could be completely wrong but I thought most "newer" vehicle were equipped with some sort of anti-siphoning devices in their gas tanks...wouldn't that make it "harder" (not impossible) to get fuel out of the tank if you needed it?
I am no mechanic but I have siphoned gas out of 2005 & 2007 autos. If it is that tab & nozzle restrictor you are talking about, that is a remnant from when they had leaded and unleaded gas. The unleaded gas nozzle was smaller than the regular gas nozzle. In theory it prevented you from putting regular gas into an unleaded vehicle (unless you used a funnel).

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Post by AlphaMMA » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:43 pm

Gas prices are going nowhere but up, why not store a few 55 gallon drums?
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Post by drobs » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:39 pm

I too am a renter in a town house with no garage. I would recommend you buy the metal jerry cans now while they are still available. I hear they're being banned in a lot of states.

WTSHTF, I think there will be a little warning. Having empty cans would be better than nothing.

I looking for a house now with an unattached garage. Don't want to store gas in my townhouse.
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Post by cougar » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:45 pm

The anti syphoning device is in where the tank meets the filler neck. I dont know exactly what it looks like but it is somekind of baffle that prevents a hose being inserted all the way into the tank.
My personal experiance is he Ford engineers did a great job in their design, becouse I could only get about a gallon out of my buddies van that had 3/4's of a tank.
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Post by velojym » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:07 pm

We keep 20 gallons in the shed, and keep both of our cars nearly full all the time. When the tank gets to 3/4, I top 'em off.
I'd use the van (1988 E150) for storage, but I'm currently looking to get rid of it, so I'll not be using it for fuel storage... but if we were keeping it...

We keep Sta-bil in the cans, but right now it may be overkill, as we rotate the fuel every 6 months anyway.

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Post by Biff » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:51 am

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Post by SkullGirl » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:08 am

A little off topic: When you fill up your cars, please do not top off. It is such a hazzard to do this, because fuel spills (obviously not everytime, but you never know when).

Yesterday at work I was attending the gas station and one of our members topped off and wasn't paying attention and quite a bit of fuel poured out of her tank. Fortunately I have some clean up solution and proper cleaning towels to clean up the mess, but any amount of gas can pose a danger.

We even have signs all around that say PLEASE DO NOT TOP OFF. No one ever reads them though.
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Post by Impus » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:13 pm

Linkie-poo for those NATO cans, please! I think I know what my mom is getting for Christmas.
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Post by Biff » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:06 pm

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Post by sheddi » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:51 pm

Impus wrote:Linkie-poo for those NATO cans, please!
This is no good for you (sorry!), but if any of my fellow Brits are interested, here's 5 surplus NATO jerry cans for £20.
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