ARES Defense Systems SCR: a 50 state legal AR15 Alternative

[Jolly Green]

I imagine that was the goal: make it appeal to everyone, not just people in ban states. That may have been part of the reason why they first demonstrated it with an SBR upper. Regardless, definitely looks like something my father would buy instead of a regular AR.

That's the biggest hurdle created by any ban states. No company wants to touch it unless it can appeal elsewhere.

[0122358]

Id kinda like one as a truck gun...

[jor-el]

Picked one up used; an amusing cautionary tale.

Previous owner tried to register the rifle in NYC. As some of you may be aware, even rifles and shotguns require a permit for ownership here, and a seperate registration for each weapon.
Paperwork requires registration after purchase, and done by snail mail to an office in Queens.
License Division refused to register the SCR on the determination that it is an AR15 receiver, accepting AR15 parts. Ignore that it uses a proprietary bolt carrier, does not accept any "shoulder thing that goes up" or a discrete pistol grip. Or bayonet lug or evil muzzle "break". Not the smartest tools in the shed over there, but defintely tools.

Sent previous owner a letter advising him they would cheerfully raid his home if he didn't have proof of disposal by end of month. Hence, me.
I'll make up a review with pics shortly.

First impressions; the buttstock is a close copy of a Remington 870/11-87 stock.

Lockwork is definitely not classic AR. Hammer pivot in the normal place to accomodate the firing pin location, but the trigger is well to the rear and there's no safety/selector. Safety is crossbolt in the Remington style behind the trigger.

There is no bolt latch, at least not out of the box. My eyes almost went glowing red for a moment, but I understand the logic. In factory config, they went with a slick side upper; no cover door, no deflector, no bolt assist. As the rifle is meant to be configured for 7.62x39 or 9MM, different bolt latches will be required. Without a BHO, they feel a closed bolt is a better idea.

[ashwednesday]

Good info to have.
Those monkeys really, really don't understand their own rules, do they?

[Stercutus]

Picked one up used; an amusing cautionary tale.

Does that mean you will be changing the thread title?

[TDW586]

Picked one up used; an amusing cautionary tale.

Does that mean you will be changing the thread title?

It's still 50-state legal; NYC refused to register it, not NYS.

[Jeriah]

Picked one up used; an amusing cautionary tale.

Does that mean you will be changing the thread title?

It's still 50-state legal; NYC refused to register it, not NYS.

Yeah, lots of cities have more restrictive laws than their states.

Last I checked, ALL semi-auto rifles are illegal in Chicago, though generally legal in the rest of IL.

[Stercutus]

I see.

We don't have that down here or just about anywhere I have lived except Kansas.

[TDW586]

I see.

We don't have that down here or just about anywhere I have lived except Kansas.

Essentially, everything is illegal in New York City. I don't just mean guns; anything and everything very well may be illegal inside city limits.

[Stercutus]

I see.

We don't have that down here or just about anywhere I have lived except Kansas.

Essentially, everything is illegal in New York City. I don't just mean guns; anything and everything very well may be illegal inside city limits.

I take it they enforce the law these days. I recall visiting the Big Apple in 1986ish and taking a walk down 42nd Street at about 10PM just to see what the hubbub was about. Dealers openly selling Cocaine in front of cops like it was umbrellas, hookers everywhere, got to see a stabbing too. But damn that dude that was selling the fake gold jewelry got his shit kicked over by the cops and told not to come back. I wondered what the hell he had done to piss them off so bad.

[00dlez]

Good info to have.
Those monkeys really, really don't understand their own rules, do they?

[Mikeyboy]

I see.

We don't have that down here or just about anywhere I have lived except Kansas.

Essentially, everything is illegal in New York City. I don't just mean guns; anything and everything very well may be illegal inside city limits.

I take it they enforce the law these days. I recall visiting the Big Apple in 1986ish and taking a walk down 42nd Street at about 10PM just to see what the hubbub was about. Dealers openly selling Cocaine in front of cops like it was umbrellas, hookers everywhere, got to see a stabbing too. But damn that dude that was selling the fake gold jewelry got his shit kicked over by the cops and told not to come back. I wondered what the hell he had done to piss them off so bad.

LOL I use to haunt NYC in the late 80's in my youth. It was cheap back then to hop on a bus Philly to NYC because not a lot of tourist wanted to go there. Times Square was A LOT different back then. Much more seedy, lots of X-rated movie theaters, dive bars, and crime was ramped. If you ever seen Taxi Driver that is how it was in Manhattan at night before Giuliani. Now its all fancy stores and restaurants, no big sugary drinks, no salt on the table, $12 for a pack of cigarettes, and overall high prices. Crime and crap still happens, but nowhere near how it use to be. Heck my kids had an 8th grade trip to NYC which included Times Square, that could have never happened 20 years ago.

But back to this rifle, to make this rifle legal in all 50 state complying with all laws would make this rifle a poor seller in the majority of US states. As a PA resident, why would I want to buy a semi auto AR with a CA bullet button? Even if this rifle is $500 why spend that for an AR that has a 10 round mag and requires a tool to change a magazine when I can spend that same amount of money on a regular AR that is totally legal in my state. At the end of the day, they are going to make a standard rifle which is legal in most US states, and then special ones that will comply to the super strict states. Actually other then mag capacity, this rifle should be legal in NY State, just not NYC.

[91Eunozs]

Interesting side bar: I talked to the folks at ARES and they said they'd sell me just the lower and BCG. Since I'm in TX I'd of course have the optional bolt hold open catch.

It'd be a nice rifle to carry around the ranch with a 10-rd mag since the folks out there don't think twice seeing someone w/a 10/22 or any scoped "hunting" rifle...I sometimes get odd looks from the neighbors w/ an AR hanging off my shoulder!

Add in a wood Remy stock and figure out how to fit a rifle-length wooden hand guard (all I can find are rifle length hand guards) to a 14.5" barrel w/a pinned flash hider and I'd be happy.

Read these had a very heavy pull...and asked, but never heard back from ARES re: a lighter pull replacement trigger... Supposedly Geissle is working on one.

How's the trigger/action in yours Jor-el?

[Doctorr Fabulous]

But back to this rifle, to make this rifle legal in all 50 state complying with all laws would make this rifle a poor seller in the majority of US states. As a PA resident, why would I want to buy a semi auto AR with a CA bullet button? Even if this rifle is $500 why spend that for an AR that has a 10 round mag and requires a tool to change a magazine when I can spend that same amount of money on a regular AR that is totally legal in my state. At the end of the day, they are going to make a standard rifle which is legal in most US states, and then special ones that will comply to the super strict states. Actually other then mag capacity, this rifle should be legal in NY State, just not NYC.

So far it's on par with a Mini14. Bullet buttons are an option, not a requirement, it uses AR mags, half the price of Mini mags, can swap to all the calibers a Mini's never heard of, has the 'less threatening' profile of a sporting rifle so you don't go to jail for having a scary gun and with a 10rd mag, looks like something I'd consider if I didn't want to be traipsing the woods with an AR.

TL:DR this is aimed at the Mini14, and the price reflects that.

[hotlead]

Bullet button wouldn't be required on this rifle in Ca., it has a fixed stock and no pistol grip, it's good to go as is.

We can even use our pre-ban magazines in it, we could use any upper so long as we had a muzzle brake and not a flash suppressor, bayonet lugs are cool here.

Definitely something to look into.

[praharin]

TL:DR this is aimed at the Mini14, and the price reflects that.

It's also a new design. If it survives a few years I bet the price comes down to after the recoup of start up cost.

Or maybe it'll sell so well the price will likely remain high.

Could be the Mini killer

[Mountainsquid]

Picked one up used; an amusing cautionary tale.

Previous owner tried to register the rifle in NYC. As some of you may be aware, even rifles and shotguns require a permit for ownership here, and a seperate registration for each weapon.
Paperwork requires registration after purchase, and done by snail mail to an office in Queens.
License Division refused to register the SCR on the determination that it is an AR15 receiver, accepting AR15 parts. Ignore that it uses a proprietary bolt carrier, does not accept any "shoulder thing that goes up" or a discrete pistol grip. Or bayonet lug or evil muzzle "break". Not the smartest tools in the shed over there, but defintely tools.

Sent previous owner a letter advising him they would cheerfully raid his home if he didn't have proof of disposal by end of month. Hence, me.

While I don't doubt you, something about this story doesn't sound right. I would have sent the letter to all kinds of media and raised a shitstorm over NYC a permit for firearm that meets the legal restrictions.

[jor-el]

Picked one up used; an amusing cautionary tale.

Previous owner tried to register the rifle in NYC. As some of you may be aware, even rifles and shotguns require a permit for ownership here, and a seperate registration for each weapon.
Paperwork requires registration after purchase, and done by snail mail to an office in Queens.
License Division refused to register the SCR on the determination that it is an AR15 receiver, accepting AR15 parts. Ignore that it uses a proprietary bolt carrier, does not accept any "shoulder thing that goes up" or a discrete pistol grip. Or bayonet lug or evil muzzle "break". Not the smartest tools in the shed over there, but defintely tools.

Sent previous owner a letter advising him they would cheerfully raid his home if he didn't have proof of disposal by end of month. Hence, me.

While I don't doubt you, something about this story doesn't sound right. I would have sent the letter to all kinds of media and raised a shitstorm over NYC a permit for firearm that meets the legal restrictions.

That's up to the previous owner to do that. If you look around the various NY based firearms forums, he brought that up. The problem is the MSM is in cahoots and would more likely try to spin the story against the gun owner.

[Mountainsquid]

The problem is the MSM is in cahoots and would more likely try to spin the story against the gun owner.

I was thinking more in terms of TTAG or something like that than MSNBC

[jor-el]

The SCR uses a lot of Torx screws, which I don't have drivers for. Once I get a decent set I'll look at detail stripping it to see what differences there are in the stock compared to a Rem 870/11-87. It's already got a GGG single point loop for an 870 on it courtesy the previous owner.

The sheet steel front forend cap is kind of loose, which bothers me a bit when firmly gripping the Magpul MOE handguard. They could probably have had Magpul adapt their MOE 870 stock, which would have matched esthetics a little better than what looks like a clone of the stock on my Norinco Hawk 982 shotgun, another rem 870 styled gun.

It has an aluminum butt plate with torx screws drilled at the right locations for a rubber butt pad to be installed, if desired.

Trigger pull exceeded my Outers measure which only goes to 72 ounces, feels like 8 or a little more. Way too heavy for a rifle. If Geissele brings one out, I'm in.

[jor-el]

http://nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-polit ... -them.html

[0122358]

http://nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-polit ... -them.html

oh...ouch. My damn head hurts reading all that shit. Is that what it is really like?

[praharin]

http://nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-polit ... -them.html

Saw this:

So does that mean ALL guns are banned in NYC? Sorry NYPD you can't have it both ways.

And thought, they don't want it both ways. The clearly want all guns banned.


Of course same poster said his "Colt Match Target" was not an AR15, because it's not an Armalite branded AR15. Armalite doesn't market "AR15s" at all, instead calling them M15s. Colt does, however make AR15s, along with many other manufacturers. Good luck to him in his law suit. I hope he get a REALLY expensive lawyer. He's gonna need it

[NorrisUnleashed]

This seems too little too late. I live in a ban state and everyone I know that wants an AR already built a compliant model years ago. I would have to see something more to spend the money. Just sayin.