body armor

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Re: body armor

Post by Dabster » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:08 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Image

Make sure your carrier actually fits you. If you need a XL, get an XL with the XL plates. If you need bigger than an XL, time to go custom.

Don't be this asshole:

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How is this fitting..?

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Re: body armor

Post by ZHT-1A » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:25 pm

I respectively disagree.
Body armor has it's place. But unless you have the full support of CAS, platoon level infantry support, heavy body armor is likely a hinder as much as a force multiplier. What you gain, you lose in maneuverability. If you had a squad level or larger to platoon, infantry unit, then you might be able to go head to head with Zed. But lacking that, your lack of mobility is just as much a hinder as it is a plus.
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Re: body armor

Post by Blacksheep » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:17 am

ZHT-1A wrote:I respectively disagree.
Body armor has it's place. But unless you have the full support of CAS, platoon level infantry support, heavy body armor is likely a hinder as much as a force multiplier. What you gain, you lose in maneuverability. If you had a squad level or larger to platoon, infantry unit, then you might be able to go head to head with Zed. But lacking that, your lack of mobility is just as much a hinder as it is a plus.
I have absolutely no idea the context of your disagreement...

yes, body armor has its place... between me and potential bullets.
mobility is great, but last I checked you can't outrun bullets
I wasn't asking about Zeds, this isn't zombie combat, its the firearms training subforum


back to the topic..

I was initially considering the stand alone plates... for simplicity
but now it seems that stand alone plates are heavier than a plate with a IIIA backer..
about 4-5 pounds or so..

shockingly, the plates that need a backer are more expensive than stand alone plates :shock:
so the plates cost more, and then I would need the backer also..

the other benefit besides weight would seem that I could then use the backer as soft armor if I didn't want IV protection

not sure that 4 pounds is worth probably 300 more in cost , but maybe theres a piece to the puzzle I'm not aware of
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Re: body armor

Post by woodsghost » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:59 am

Rebel Pariah wrote:
ZHT-1A wrote:I respectively disagree.
Body armor has it's place. But unless you have the full support of CAS, platoon level infantry support, heavy body armor is likely a hinder as much as a force multiplier. What you gain, you lose in maneuverability. If you had a squad level or larger to platoon, infantry unit, then you might be able to go head to head with Zed. But lacking that, your lack of mobility is just as much a hinder as it is a plus.
I have absolutely no idea the context of your disagreement...

yes, body armor has its place... between me and potential bullets.
mobility is great, but last I checked you can't outrun bullets
I wasn't asking about Zeds, this isn't zombie combat, its the firearms training subforum
It depends on whether you are walking 20 miles a day with all your worldly possessions on your back, or whether you are in a defensive position or patrolling near your farm or town. Or if you are vehicle mobile. That is how I see it, and what influenced my first post in this thread.

Those 4 pounds can be worth a lot if it allows you to wear armor while walking long distances.

Further, mobility in a fight is it's own kind of protection.

Moving to better cover, moving to better shooting positions, moving out of a bad position, moving away from the fight and disengaging, are all pretty useful. Wearing armor does not stop you from doing this. But wearing armor would reduce how much of it I could do. Everyone is different though. You may be a lot tougher than I am. However, your point about bullets is valid, and the main reason for owning and using armor.

What I see when I read what ZHT-1A wrote is that you have to consider your allies and fighting style. If you are in a small group, you want to be very fast and mobile. I suspect this is to be very aggressive in response to an attack, or very quick to get out if the attack is too strong.

If you have platoon or company supporting, you have buddies who can lay down fire, establish fire superiority, and mobility loses some of it's importance due to larger groups of soldiers (more people = less mobility, more inertia) and less importance place on the individual and more importance placed on group capability. But that is just my interpretation.

My interpretation of ancient_serpent is that doing PT with armor on, on a consistent basis, can maybe alleviate some of the mobility problems. You simply have to build yourself up to working with it.
ancient_serpent wrote:I do training with steel plates all the time, worn them in shoot houses and PT. A good carrier makes a world of difference, too. I regularly do the "Murph" workout, three mile runs followed by pull-ups, dips, push ups, etc in them. Again, not the most comfortable but not horrible.
But I can't put words in his mouth. I can only guess at what is meant.
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Re: body armor

Post by cricketdave » Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:03 am

Looking at the pics of the guys who's plate carriers are so high on their bodies, I have a question. Are they just adjusted wrong? My plate carrier covers my torso. From just below my throat to just above my belt line. Seems like they could have let the straps out a bit and it would cover the vitals better.

As to armor, well I have a set of steel plates, curved ones seem more comfortable wearing them. I'm thinking about adding a set of spall protectors as well since they add very little weight. At about 16lbs you do move differently in them and absolutely should wear it a lot and be fit enough to carry the extra pounds. Add a few loaded magazines and your whatever you like pouches and possibly a hydration bladder and your quickly putting a lot of weight on. So some pretty serious cardio is in order.

I'd hope never to need them, but better to have and be used to wearing than to need and not have.
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Re: body armor

Post by ZHT-1A » Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:00 pm

Rebel Pariah wrote:
ZHT-1A wrote:I respectively disagree.
Body armor has it's place. But unless you have the full support of CAS, platoon level infantry support, heavy body armor is likely a hinder as much as a force multiplier. What you gain, you lose in maneuverability. If you had a squad level or larger to platoon, infantry unit, then you might be able to go head to head with Zed. But lacking that, your lack of mobility is just as much a hinder as it is a plus.
I have absolutely no idea the context of your disagreement...

yes, body armor has its place... between me and potential bullets.
mobility is great, but last I checked you can't outrun bullets
I wasn't asking about Zeds, this isn't zombie combat, its the firearms training subforum


back to the topic..

I was initially considering the stand alone plates... for simplicity
but now it seems that stand alone plates are heavier than a plate with a IIIA backer..
about 4-5 pounds or so..

shockingly, the plates that need a backer are more expensive than stand alone plates :shock:
so the plates cost more, and then I would need the backer also..

the other benefit besides weight would seem that I could then use the backer as soft armor if I didn't want IV protection

not sure that 4 pounds is worth probably 300 more in cost , but maybe theres a piece to the puzzle I'm not aware of
Sorry, my bust.
Actually my post then applies even more.
The insurgents (this was in Afghanistan) would engage us from 300-500m, their main effort was based around PKMs and or RPGs with harassment fire from AKs (usually at a close range on the flanks), usually after a roadside IED detonation.
They knew we were not going to dismount and pursue on foot as armor makes it not practical. There is no way a MRAP would get up some of those rocks/boulders or when the sand is like talcum powder. It would sink up to its axles.
The point is, they knew our armor weight us down. They used it to their advantage. Their disadvantage was they had no body armor. But they then turned it into a advantage with the ability to shoot and scoot faster then we could respond with CAS (they had spotters watching the airfield for when the CAS would take off).
Most engagements were 30seconds to 2 minutes. The MAW-Duce gunner got more action then anyone else.
If you get out-flanked, body armor or not, you are in a hurt locker.
Body armor does have its places, usually with a well trained fireteam/squad/platoon level.
By an individual, I question the trade off of armor to maneuverability.
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Re: body armor

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:19 pm

cricketdave wrote:Looking at the pics of the guys who's plate carriers are so high on their bodies, I have a question. Are they just adjusted wrong? My plate carrier covers my torso. From just below my throat to just above my belt line. Seems like they could have let the straps out a bit and it would cover the vitals better.
It's that they're too small. Nobody likes to admit they're not really a medium, especially if they used to be a medium.
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Re: body armor

Post by clarence » Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:52 pm

ZHT-1A wrote:Body armor does have its places, usually with a well trained fireteam/squad/platoon level.
By an individual, I question the trade off of armor to maneuverability.
The 2lb Defender doesn't compromise maneuverability yet provides protection against the pistols and shotguns of the home invader/SHTF mob. What's the trade off there?
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Re: body armor

Post by woodsghost » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:10 pm

And this stuff only weights one pound! Out of stock as of 8/16/14. Could change soon though.

http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-1 ... --d8MVdWCo

I don't know if the home invader and SHTF crowd are all "pistols and shotguns," but I"m betting a good majority of them are. It does make sense to have a little extra insurance. Especially at that weight.
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Re: body armor

Post by feedthedog » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:34 pm

If you have the money, there is really no reason not to have armor. Hell, most of us have a dozen or more firearms. If you've got the money for a 5th AR, then why not pick up some armor?

Currently I've got an IBAish vest with IIIA soft armor and ceramic plates. At some point I'd like to grab something a bit more low profile that I could wear under a loose shirt. The chances that I'd ever need something like that is about 0%, but once you have all of the more practical stuff taken care of, then why not?

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Re: body armor

Post by Blacksheep » Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:55 am

feedthedog wrote:If you have the money, there is really no reason not to have armor. Hell, most of us have a dozen or more firearms. If you've got the money for a 5th AR, then why not pick up some armor?

Currently I've got an IBAish vest with IIIA soft armor and ceramic plates. At some point I'd like to grab something a bit more low profile that I could wear under a loose shirt. The chances that I'd ever need something like that is about 0%, but once you have all of the more practical stuff taken care of, then why not?
This

I feel like armor is more important than a new gun currently..
I have all of the niches covered I want except pocket gun and a heavy bolt gun


You said you have soft armor with plates

Why did you choose this setup over standalone?
Any input is appreciated
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Re: body armor

Post by feedthedog » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:47 pm

Rebel Pariah wrote:
feedthedog wrote:If you have the money, there is really no reason not to have armor. Hell, most of us have a dozen or more firearms. If you've got the money for a 5th AR, then why not pick up some armor?

Currently I've got an IBAish vest with IIIA soft armor and ceramic plates. At some point I'd like to grab something a bit more low profile that I could wear under a loose shirt. The chances that I'd ever need something like that is about 0%, but once you have all of the more practical stuff taken care of, then why not?
This

I feel like armor is more important than a new gun currently..
I have all of the niches covered I want except pocket gun and a heavy bolt gun


You said you have soft armor with plates

Why did you choose this setup over standalone?
Any input is appreciated
It just mimicked what I was familiar with from the military. In retrospect more low profile soft armor is probably the most practical. I could see wanting some protection without looking like a crazy person wearing a plate carrier piled with magazines.

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Re: body armor

Post by RonnyRonin » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:53 pm

ZHT-1A wrote: The insurgents (this was in Afghanistan) would engage us from 300-500m, their main effort was based around PKMs and or RPGs with harassment fire from AKs (usually at a close range on the flanks), usually after a roadside IED detonation.
They knew we were not going to dismount and pursue on foot as armor makes it not practical. There is no way a MRAP would get up some of those rocks/boulders or when the sand is like talcum powder. It would sink up to its axles.
The point is, they knew our armor weight us down. They used it to their advantage. Their disadvantage was they had no body armor. But they then turned it into a advantage with the ability to shoot and scoot faster then we could respond with CAS (they had spotters watching the airfield for when the CAS would take off).
Most engagements were 30seconds to 2 minutes. The MAW-Duce gunner got more action then anyone else.
If you get out-flanked, body armor or not, you are in a hurt locker.
Body armor does have its places, usually with a well trained fireteam/squad/platoon level.
By an individual, I question the trade off of armor to maneuverability.
While no sane person would say that our troops are not overly weighed down, and armor plays a huge part of that, but to be fair isn't the issue armor system something like 20lbs all together? pretty easy for someone how is master of their own kit to keep it under 10lbs.

woodsghost wrote:And this stuff only weights one pound! Out of stock as of 8/16/14. Could change soon though.

http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-1 ... --d8MVdWCo

I don't know if the home invader and SHTF crowd are all "pistols and shotguns," but I"m betting a good majority of them are. It does make sense to have a little extra insurance. Especially at that weight.
I wouldn't take that bet, I know a LOT of folks with carbines, and a lot of folks with 3 or more carbines. to think that some of those wouldn't end up with bad folks seems optimistic. Also plate backer soft armor is hard to find a concealable vest for ('casue they're made to go in plate carriers) I would encourage anyone to get soft armor but I would recommend a normal concealable vest. Covers more area as a bonus.

Red Dawn fantasies aside, here has been my thinking as of late:
I don't ever see myself participating in an offensive gun battle, my plan A is to leave whatever area is bad enough that gun battles are happening. But what if while leaving said area someone decides to shoot me in an ambush (either because I'm mistaken for a combatant or someone just wants my stuff)? I figure if I'm the first person to be shot at in an ambush (by anyone not grossly incompetent) my chances of not catching a bullet in the chest are about 0%. If I have armor I at least have some chance better then 0% to crawl behind a tree while I try to count my broken ribs and return fire. In this way I don't see armor as some kind of mobile cover that allows me to fight the enemy better but as a very small insurance policy against the cruel hand of fate.
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Re: body armor

Post by RonnyRonin » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:55 pm

ZHT-1A wrote: The insurgents (this was in Afghanistan) would engage us from 300-500m, their main effort was based around PKMs and or RPGs with harassment fire from AKs (usually at a close range on the flanks), usually after a roadside IED detonation.
They knew we were not going to dismount and pursue on foot as armor makes it not practical. There is no way a MRAP would get up some of those rocks/boulders or when the sand is like talcum powder. It would sink up to its axles.
The point is, they knew our armor weight us down. They used it to their advantage. Their disadvantage was they had no body armor. But they then turned it into a advantage with the ability to shoot and scoot faster then we could respond with CAS (they had spotters watching the airfield for when the CAS would take off).
Most engagements were 30seconds to 2 minutes. The MAW-Duce gunner got more action then anyone else.
If you get out-flanked, body armor or not, you are in a hurt locker.
Body armor does have its places, usually with a well trained fireteam/squad/platoon level.
By an individual, I question the trade off of armor to maneuverability.
While no sane person would say that our troops are not overly weighed down, and armor plays a huge part of that, but to be fair isn't the issue armor system something like 20lbs all together? seems pretty easy for someone who is master of their own kit to keep it under 10lbs.

woodsghost wrote:And this stuff only weights one pound! Out of stock as of 8/16/14. Could change soon though.

http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-1 ... --d8MVdWCo

I don't know if the home invader and SHTF crowd are all "pistols and shotguns," but I"m betting a good majority of them are. It does make sense to have a little extra insurance. Especially at that weight.
I wouldn't take that bet, I know a LOT of folks with carbines, and a lot of folks with 3 or more carbines. to think that some of those wouldn't end up with bad folks seems optimistic. Also plate backer soft armor is hard to find a concealable vest for ('casue they're made to go in plate carriers) I would encourage anyone to get soft armor but I would recommend a normal concealable vest. Covers more area as a bonus.

Red Dawn fantasies aside, here has been my thinking as of late:
I don't ever see myself participating in an offensive gun battle, my plan A is to leave whatever area is bad enough that gun battles are happening. But what if while leaving said area someone decides to shoot me in an ambush (either because I'm mistaken for a combatant or someone just wants my stuff)? I figure if I'm the first person to be shot at in an ambush (by anyone not grossly incompetent) my chances of not catching a bullet in the chest are about 0%. If I have armor I at least have some chance better then 0% to crawl behind a tree while I try to count my broken ribs and return fire. In this way I don't see armor as some kind of mobile cover that allows me to fight the enemy better but as a very small insurance policy against the cruel hand of fate.
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Re: body armor

Post by woodsghost » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:35 am

RonnyRonin wrote:
I wouldn't take that bet, I know a LOT of folks with carbines, and a lot of folks with 3 or more carbines. to think that some of those wouldn't end up with bad folks seems optimistic.

I don't ever see myself participating in an offensive gun battle, my plan A is to leave whatever area is bad enough that gun battles are happening.
How many rifles did you see in Ferguson, MO? I saw pictures of pistols. Now, once you get to the country side, you see more carbines and rifles, though in shotgun hunting only states, you don't see nearly as many carbines.

So, what are the odds you will be shot by a rifle in the ZPAW? 10%? 30%? 49%? As long as it is 49% or less, you are more likely to be shot by a pistol or shotgun ;)

But we can look at SHTF that is short of the ZPAW. Something like Katrina or Ferguson or similar. Not many rifles out there, except in the hands of police, military, and PMSCs.

So a lot depends on what you are preparing for.

To be honest, I see no reason NOT to prepare for rifles. It makes sense to me to prepare for pistols/shotguns first if you have to make a choice or weight is an issue. Steel plates are cheap compared to other armor options and effective and will stop knives, pistols, shotguns, and rifles.

The "Plan A" might not be to go on an offensive gun battle, but what if somebody kidnaps your child or SO, or the child or SO of someone in your group, and you need to go rescue them? Like that family in Louisana?

My point is that the unexpected happens, and sometimes the offense is thrust upon us.
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Re: body armor

Post by RonnyRonin » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:49 pm

woodsghost wrote: My point is that the unexpected happens, and sometimes the offense is thrust upon us.
would you say that any of the offensive situations you describe would be hindered by armor? my point is that the only situation were I can think of that I wouldn't want armor is if I was sure I was only on the offensive, such as ambushing someone and then running away, something I don't see myself doing. if it's the sort of offensive that's anything more then harassment I'd think armor would be a boon, assuming it's kept light enough.

most of the "look at so-and-so that doesn't wear armor" arguments usually seem to point to groups where the cause was much more important then the individual, who seemed to be disposable (Vietcong, Afghan Insurgents etc). These groups also aren't always interested in taking or holding ground. In the context of small groups of prepared folks trying to protect their families, the survival of the individual seems paramount to the cause.
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Re: body armor

Post by woodsghost » Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:20 pm

RonnyRonin wrote: would you say that any of the offensive situations you describe would be hindered by armor? my point is that the only situation were I can think of that I wouldn't want armor is if I was sure I was only on the offensive, such as ambushing someone and then running away, something I don't see myself doing. if it's the sort of offensive that's anything more then harassment I'd think armor would be a boon, assuming it's kept light enough.
I think if I was bushwhacking or ambushing someone, I would love to wear armor. The only place I see armor being a hindrance is when support is a long ways off. When you are living out of your ruck for weeks at a time, rather than 24-48 hours.

What I hear ZHT-1A saying, above, is that armor sucks when you have to chase after unarmored opponents who can scamper away while you huff and puff. Armor has the potential to suck if you need to pursue and try to close with an enemy who will not let you near. Further, armored vehicles are limited in the terrain they can traverse.

Perhaps armored individuals experience a similar limiting of the terrain they can easily traverse? I don't know, but given what ZHT-1A said, I suspect so.
RonnyRonin wrote: most of the "look at so-and-so that doesn't wear armor" arguments usually seem to point to groups where the cause was much more important then the individual, who seemed to be disposable (Vietcong, Afghan Insurgents etc). These groups also aren't always interested in taking or holding ground. In the context of small groups of prepared folks trying to protect their families, the survival of the individual seems paramount to the cause.
I thought this way for a while. Now I think there is something else going on there. I think the Vietcong and Afghan insurgents simply did not have access to armor. Given what I read from ZHT-1A, it is also possible that jungles and mountains are poor environments to use heavier armor. A bunch of VC or NVA wearing armor might have had similar experiences to the French at the Battle of Agincourt. Especially during the rainy season.

Normally, I don't think of the Russians as big on preserving the lives of their troops, but what happened when they invaded Afghanistan? They came up with a vest of titanium plates and the workers of the USSR turned out a whole bunch of them, FAST, to equip their boys fighting in Afghanistan. Wish I could find where I read the whole story, but the point is, even the Soviets wanted to preserve the lives of their soldiers and when given the chance to do so, through the issuing of personal body armor, they did so! And those troops wore it! Even though the life of a Soviet soldier was disposable, and they were expected to die for a greater cause (communism), the mother land still issued armor and the workers turned it out rapidly and in abundance!

Again, coming back to my first post in this thread, I think it really matters how foot mobile you have to be and how much support you are receiving. Others have listed great points too.
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Re: body armor

Post by Neville » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:57 am

Last big gun show in this area I had a little money and decided some armor would be good preventive medicine. If it can reduce my odds of not bleeding out before 911 arrives and my opponent isn't so lucky, that sounds like a good investment to me.

The vendor was Trevor Pearson at Tactical Armed Citizen. I purchased the full front, full back (curved) and two side plates plus carrier - $300. Level III protection, the rig assembled weighs around 20 lbs. I have a couple of pistol mag pouches on it right now and am looking for a molle attachement holster for an XD (found several, trying to decide which I like best). My chosen role for this rig is checking out a nighttime "noise" of undetermined origin, hence it is set up for pistol as primary. If I ever get my Blackout .300 AR pistol finished I'll switch over to that system. If I really, really think it's a bad guy in the house... screw that, I can sit and wait for 911 to show up, let them do the checking.

I think TAC used to have a web site but I'm not able to access it at the moment. Here's a video of some of their product (not my video).

Youtube Video Product Presentation: TAC Steel Plate - Level 4

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Re: body armor

Post by cricketdave » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:40 pm

I'm thinking I need a better plate carrier now, what do you all recommend for a 6'1" 180lb guy with regular sized curved plates. Mostly I want something durable and that the weight of the plates won't cause to sag.
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Re: body armor

Post by Blacksheep » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:43 am

so I'm still back and forth between ar500 and ceramic..
steel I think is better suited for long term SHTF, can take more abuse\ whereas ceramic is more or less broken if it gets hit,
(not that I am planning to get shot multiple times... let alone once, but longevity of gear when its not replaceable is food for thought)

steel has some splatter issues, whereas ceramic does not as it captures the round,
I'm not OVERLY worried about the splatter issue, with build up coatings, and splatter covers available, but it adds cost, weight, and bulk

steel does not defeat the XM193 within 25 yards... this is a concern to me, since I view ARs the most likely rifle one would run into in a SHTF situation, and xm193 is a fairly common (cheap) round
having spoken to both bulletproofme AND ar500, both have said that steel in-conjunction with a 3A soft should stop the round according to tests performed, but they dont want to guarantee it... I'm not sure what that info is worth, but its food for thought
but again, adding a backer is adding weight\bulk\cost

(FWIW I do want to get a set of 3A soft armor backers, if for nothing else to run in my plate carrier without hard plates for various classes, if I want armor, but only handgun level)

Im not worried about the weight, as it seems its only a couple pounds difference... cost is more of a concern that 2-3 pounds for me

as far as I can tell, I should run a 11x14 plate, I have a long torso and short legs :gonk:
.... okay so maybe its a bit wide also :oops: , but I think I do legit have a large ribcage love handles aside


I'm now at the cross roads of, do I go with a 10x12 or pay out a LOT more for an 11x14 even though a 10x12 might be a bit small

it seems like bulletproofme.com only offers 11x14 in their "SAPI PLATE" line,
which is much more expensive that the standard ceramic :vmad:

bulletproofme.com 3a backers
10x12 standard aramid -192 per pair
11x14 standard aramid -250 per pair

ar500 curved 10x12 only base coat - 170 for pair
ar500 curved 10x12 build up coating-220 for pair
ar500 curved 11x14 only base coat - 210 for pair
ar500 curved 11x14 built up coating-280 for pair
bulletproofme 10x12 STANDARD STAND-ALONE Ceramic - 290 for pair
bulletproofme 11x14 XL SAPI ceramic- 580 for pair :vmad:

buddy just got a set of 10x12 steel plates, Ill have to check them out for size, but it might be a few weeks before I can get over there

cant figure out which way I'm leaning ugh

I have a current budget right now, planned for around 300$, with the possibility to purchase more stuff down the line
so I could...

buy steel, and try to get backer panels and splatter panels later
buy ONLY a front plate 11x14 sapi, and try to get a back plate later...
Buy 2 10x12 standard ceramic plates, but have them be too small
buy ONLY soft panels, and hope hard plates aren't banned before I can afford plates
(not terribly worried about current legislation, but I wouldn't forgive myself if I was unable to purchase later)

thoughts? \ input?
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ancient_serpent
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Re: body armor

Post by ancient_serpent » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:11 am

woodsghost wrote:
My interpretation of ancient_serpent is that doing PT with armor on, on a consistent basis, can maybe alleviate some of the mobility problems. You simply have to build yourself up to working with it.
ancient_serpent wrote:I do training with steel plates all the time, worn them in shoot houses and PT. A good carrier makes a world of difference, too. I regularly do the "Murph" workout, three mile runs followed by pull-ups, dips, push ups, etc in them. Again, not the most comfortable but not horrible.
But I can't put words in his mouth. I can only guess at what is meant.
Yep, that's pretty much all I meant. That said, there is indeed a type of protection that mobility provides and I know that when wearing armor I'll always be slower than without it. I workout with it so that I'm used to it and minimize how much it slows me down/fatigues me.

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Re: body armor

Post by woodsghost » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:38 am

These guys caught my attention:

http://armour-wear.com/

If I understand right, they popped onto the scene a few months ago, though the company has been making plates for other companies for years.

Ceramic for less money than I usually see.

There is information on them if you google around. Including shooting tests.
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RonnyRonin
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Re: body armor

Post by RonnyRonin » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:54 pm

woodsghost wrote:These guys caught my attention:

http://armour-wear.com/

If I understand right, they popped onto the scene a few months ago, though the company has been making plates for other companies for years.

Ceramic for less money than I usually see.

There is information on them if you google around. Including shooting tests.
3lb plate that stops green tip? under $200? might be too good to be true but I hope it's not.

I wonder why the level 4 plate is cheaper but the weight is a deal breaker for me. I'll have to do some more research on their materials but that is right up my alley, thanks for the link.
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woodsghost
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Re: body armor

Post by woodsghost » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:59 pm

RonnyRonin wrote:
woodsghost wrote:These guys caught my attention:

http://armour-wear.com/

If I understand right, they popped onto the scene a few months ago, though the company has been making plates for other companies for years.

Ceramic for less money than I usually see.

There is information on them if you google around. Including shooting tests.
3lb plate that stops green tip? under $200? might be too good to be true but I hope it's not.

I wonder why the level 4 plate is cheaper but the weight is a deal breaker for me. I'll have to do some more research on their materials but that is right up my alley, thanks for the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmTMsVoT ... ot_V8bFLPQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chRQAw3 ... Q&index=18

The plate maker is now a sponsor of the video maker. But hey, they are shooting stuff, and no arguing with that. Also, this Armour Wear stuff is cheap enough that people are going to test it with all sorts of more stuff. Time will tell if it is crap or not. The maker says in another video that the Lvl 4 plate should have stopped 3 rounds of 30-06 AP, not just 1 and ... mostly 2. Certification tests only require it to stop 1 round of 30-06 AP. Maker wants to stop 3. As I said, time will tell if these are "too good to be true" or "a great value." Right now they look to me like a great value as long as you understand these degrade over time and with multiple hits. They are lighter and stop rounds more reliably than steel..... until they wear out. Just something to consider. Also, the video talks about 5.45 penetrating the Lvl 4 plate. If you look close, the 5.45 round impacts right where the 5.56 round impacted. I'd say it is safe to say 1) the shooter did not mean to do that, and 2) I'd not worry about 5.45 penetrating ceramic. The Lvl 3 stopped it. I"m sure the Lvl 4 would have if struck in a different position.

And honestly, green tip is easier to stop than M193 if you are talking about steel. The velocity matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCR ... f-Edm5MgYw
(M193 w/20, 16, & 10.5 inch barrel, @7 yrds. 10.5 inch does not penetrate)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyEA3Nf--O4
(AR, 20 inch barrel, @25 yrds/meters, M193 [4/5 rnds penetrate], M855 [0/5 rnds penetrate])

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOxX8SmfQ0c
(Ceramic vs. M193 & M855)


Keep in mind M193 should be traveling close to 3200 fps out of a 20 inch barrel (3150 out of 16 inch). Remember .223 is a different pressure and lower velocity, for those reading this and who did not know.

Where I got my data: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/perf_ballmil.html
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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