Do you know a future marauder?

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Das Sheep
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Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Das Sheep » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:22 pm

Hey fellow Zombie Squad folks,

So I was hanging out with a fellow prepper and psudo-friend locally and we were talking prep's etc. He is fun to go shooting with and has the guns and ammo part of prepping down, having at least like $10k in guns and ammo, on the conservative side. But when it comes to food he had like a single wise food tub, some canned goods (maybe 60 total cans?) and some misc other food.

I was thinking, later, that he had about enough for one person for two or three months. His girl will probably be with him in such a scenario, so probably they really have enough food for 2 months. Unless some of his friends show up. Then its like a month. Or less. He is a super chill dude who is really friendly and I can't see him turning his friends away.

I was thinking, later, about what would happen when he runs out of food a month, two months, or heck, lets say even 4 months into a major shit hits the fan situation.

He is a prepper and a really cool dude, and I am sure in his own mind he would never be one of the bad guys.

But then you look at starvation situations. The Donner Party comes to mind. These were good christian people. They were family. And when it came down to it, they were willing to each each other to survive.

There are a lot of preppers who have a lot of guns. Maybe a lot of guns and a lot of silver, but not so much food. Which is sort of understandable. I mean, food takes up a lot of room, depending on your living conditions, and its also the least 'sexy' part of prepping. A new gun is like a kiss from an attractive stranger, exciting. Another three 5 gallon buckets of rice or beans, not so exciting.

But I think we all know preppers who are really heavy on the gun side of the house, and not so heavy on the food side of the house.

What happens when those people, good people that they might be, run out of food for themselves and their friends and loved ones. When they still have a couple of AR's and AK's and semi auto shotguns along with maybe thousands of rounds, maybe some training (or a lot of training, fire arms training is fun!) and possibly body armor and night vision.

I think they will become marauders. They won't do it because they are bad people, but they will be starving and their friends will be starving. It becomes easy to justify bad things when your mind is in a messed up place because of a messed up situation.

What do you all think about that? Do you disagree? Think you know anyone who is a prepper and a good dude who might end up on the dark side in your opinion when the chips are down, and have been down for a while?

-Das

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Boondock » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:45 pm

Hate to say this, but you've also just described a number of people on ZS.

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:47 pm

I disagree. Owning guns doesn't immediately dispose someone to violence nor abusing others. False narrative IMO.

However, maybe, since you are brotateos with him have a discussion about his food preps. For all you know he could have a secret stash he's not telling anyone about. Remember, just because the scenario that you see in your head isn't the one that's in his. What I'm trying to say is everyone can prep to the extent they want to, if he's comfortable with 1-2 months of food than so be it. I have 6 months for my entire family and shooting for a year. I have indefinite water since I live on a pond with a vast wetlands and a big ass filter. I know folks with 5 years worth of food. Does that mean since he has 5 years that I'm instantly going to raid his preps? Nope.

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by ineffableone » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:02 pm

To look on the brighter side, or maybe just being a silly optimist.

I would hope rather than some of these trained and equipped folks becoming raiders and marauders, that they will hire out their services of protection and security to folks who aren't as well armed and trained. This would at least be an honest way to earn food rather than taking it at gun point.

I think there will be a lot of fairly well set up people with land, supplies, renewable resources (crops), even independent energy sources. However these people will likely not be able to guard the size of property they have with the amount of people they have at hand. I would hope the well armed and trained folks realize that signing on as security for these folks is a better option than becoming a problem person.

Sure I think some will go to the dark side, or are already there. But while I am not blind to the harshness and desperation of the hungry, I also have some hope that people will also band together. Form small enclaves and communities that protect eachother.
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by xd dude » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:13 pm

It's a trust your gut scenario. If you don't consider him a close friend, be nice and point out the holes in his plan, but don't let him know all the specifics of your preps. That could put you on the top of his list to maraude(is that a word?) when or if the SHTF.

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:15 pm

Would you feel the same way if he had one rifle, a decent ammo store, and 1 month's worth of food?
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Das Sheep » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Would you feel the same way if he had one rifle, a decent ammo store, and 1 month's worth of food?
Thats a fair question. I don't know, maybe? I understand food is expensive, to a degree, and that everyone's priorities are different. Shooting and fire arms are also a hobby for him (as they are for me) so that likely plays into why he has so many. Prepping is just another good excuse to acquire more of them.

I understand that food can also be bulky for people who move a lot, and that for people with larger families food can get very expensive since they need much more of it. And there are also degree's of prepping. Some people only prep for shorter term things, such as hurricanes, fires, or the like. Others prep for those things and much larger term, more likely to cause SHTF situations like CME's that take down the grid, large scale civil unrest caused by what ever, a pandemic, etc. He does consider himself an SHTF prepper in addition to someone who is prepared for hurricanes and the like.

I have pointed out that he needs more food, but he believes that he will be able to supplement his food supply well enough with hunting and fishing that he is good for a year or more, and does not really feel the need to buy more because he feels its to expensive.

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:26 pm

Could also be that he doesn't see a scenario where he'll have to live solely out of his pantry as likely enough to spend money on.
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:33 pm

Das Sheep wrote: I have pointed out that he needs more food, but he believes that he will be able to supplement his food supply well enough with hunting and fishing that he is good for a year or more, and does not really feel the need to buy more because he feels its to expensive.
A good question to ask, I normally do, is "If you're going to be out hunting and fishing, don't you think everyone else will be too? Thus putting you in contact with other people who may equally be as desperate as yourself?" If you're hunting for food on a daily basis that's a lot of work with lots of competition for the same resources others are trying for as well. It's much easier to gather resources when times are good than waiting until desperation. Then let that simmer a bit.
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Mikeyboy » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:37 pm

I mentioned before the "Wild Eyed Survivalist". Basically these guys are the preppers/survivalist who plans to bug out somewhere in the woods, and has a BOB with a tarp, Bivvy bag, a foot long survival knife, 1,000 feet of paracord, tons of guns and ammo...and for food he has one packet of Raman Noodles and 3 Granola bars.

Bad things happen, he bugs out to the woods, and after a few days he is cold, wet, uncomfortable, hungry, and very well armed.

I don't think its that they purposely plan to be a marauder if the SHTF, but I think poor planning will put them in a desperate position and the thought to raid a nearby house will cross their mind.

That said, a nice guy with tons of guns and 2 or 3 months worth of food is still better prepared the 98% of the general population. I wouldn't worry about him.

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by slicknickns » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:46 pm

Mikeyboy wrote:I mentioned before the "Wild Eyed Survivalist". Basically these guys are the preppers/survivalist who plans to bug out somewhere in the woods, and has a BOB with a tarp, Bivvy bag, a foot long survival knife, 1,000 feet of paracord, tons of guns and ammo...and for food he has one packet of Raman Noodles and 3 Granola bars.

Bad things happen, he bugs out to the woods, and after a few days he is cold, wet, uncomfortable, hungry, and very well armed.

I don't think its that they purposely plan to be a marauder if the SHTF, but I think poor planning will put them in a desperate position and the thought to raid a nearby house will cross their mind.

That said, a nice guy with tons of guns and 2 or 3 months worth of food is still better prepared the 98% of the general population. I wouldn't worry about him.
Neither would I.

There's looting, by which I am defining as taking when no one is around to tell you not to. An abandoned grocery store, a squatter's pad, an abandoned car. Then there' taking by force, marauding. The LA riots were full of marauding, to make the example. As was Katrina.

I love the survivalist character, often too present on forums, that has a detailed an complete bug out plan that often involves fleeing to a favorite spot of his or his bunker retreat (though if the guy has a bunker, that's actually pretty good). The guy who wants to go at it alone in the woods always has the wildest fantasies.

From previous forum experience, I bug in, not out.
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Boondock » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:50 pm

Mikeyboy wrote:Bad things happen, he bugs out to the woods, and after a few days he is cold, wet, uncomfortable, hungry, and very well armed.
Yes. Precisely what I was referring to.

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by 91Eunozs » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:54 pm

Not an unreasonable assumption, but...

And there are a lot of paths this conversation can take. I'd think that if he has that much in firearms/ammo he certainly has more than a bit in food storage. As mentioned above, maybe he just keeps that part quiet.

One way I do it when I have a friend who is really "into guns" but not much else is take them to one of our local gun shops that also sells silver/gold and has one entire wall dedicated to food for long term storage (primarily Thrive brand freeze dried foods). I tell them how I buy just a couple cans or so every pay period and have most of my future purchases already in a que so it doesn't take any real thought on my part...automatic supply replenishment.

Has your friend ever mentioned long term plans? Maybe a close family friend or family member of his has a farm that he works and he has a plan in that regard...

Long winded way of saying that you'll never know unless you ask! :wink:
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by drop bear » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:14 am

He will be a great big fat target for marauders.

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by dtwn92 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:26 am

Well imo having guns, ammo and silver doesn't make you a prepper. It makes you a hobbies that read a few forum posts of blogs on what to do in a SHTF scenario.

The 1st thing you'll need is water, food as source of power and then security. I mean that isn't set in stone but K.I.S.S even applies here.
Exchanging a 1000 rounds in a fire fight is a good way to not having to worry about food any longer or breathing for that matter.

Being honest, food and water storage are my priority for now. Maybe one day I'll get to drop $10k on guns...maybe.
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by gundogs » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:27 am

dtwn92 wrote:Well imo having guns, ammo and silver doesn't make you a prepper. It makes you a hobbies that read a few forum posts of blogs on what to do in a SHTF scenario.

The 1st thing you'll need is water, food as source of power and then security. I mean that isn't set in stone but K.I.S.S even applies here.
Exchanging a 1000 rounds in a fire fight is a good way to not having to worry about food any longer or breathing for that matter.

Being honest, food and water storage are my priority for now. Maybe one day I'll get to drop $10k on guns...maybe.
KISS? Becoming fully prepared for catastrophic natural or societal events is in no way simple. Some of us have spent years doing it

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by ineffableone » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:04 pm

Gingerbread Man wrote:
Das Sheep wrote: I have pointed out that he needs more food, but he believes that he will be able to supplement his food supply well enough with hunting and fishing that he is good for a year or more, and does not really feel the need to buy more because he feels its to expensive.
A good question to ask, I normally do, is "If you're going to be out hunting and fishing, don't you think everyone else will be too? Thus putting you in contact with other people who may equally be as desperate as yourself?" If you're hunting for food on a daily basis that's a lot of work with lots of competition for the same resources others are trying for as well. It's much easier to gather resources when times are good than waiting until desperation. Then let that simmer a bit.
A good thread about Living Off The Land: Delusions and Misconceptions http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... 2&t=109681
There are plenty of others that touch on it too. For example WoodsWalker has several threads where he goes out for an overnighter with no food in the Bushcraft sub forum. He forages instead. Sometimes he is lucky and eats decent others he just can't find the food and has minimal to eat. Even knowing what to look for and where to look, you might be a week early or late and miss the berries, or nuts. The fish might not be in the stream, the deer might have moved out of that valley. If you aren't intimately knowledgeable about the wilds you plan to hunt and forage in, if you haven't staked out the berry bushes and nut trees good luck finding them before all the animals who know where they are.

While a good idea to have the ability to hunt and trap, depending on it completely rather than having decent stores of food is poor planing.
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by raptor » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:56 pm

This a question I have asked myself many times. IMO the correct answer is that you cannot predict exactly what someone else (or in some cases even you) will do in a realistic scenario like for instance a civil war ala the Yugoslavia break up or some other long term traumatic event like that.

That said history has shown us that in a true SHTF situation people (good people, people you trust today) will turn against you and anyone else they think may have what they need. It is a difficult situation to prep for and even harder to deal with if that comes when they do turn against you.

When a person is hungry, they get serious about the situation. However, when their children are hungry that seriousness mixes with desperation. It is at that point that you will see it get very ugly. Friends and even family turn on each other for what they need.

History has shown this for many centuries and there is no reason to assume that mankind has evolved beyond this...in fact I would say if anything it is more likely to occur today than in the last century.

My suggestion is that the best way to deal with this is to have as many friends and family prepared for SHTF situations (This is one reason I am a MOD here preaching preparedness at every turn) such that they are better prepared and self sufficient thus less likely to reach that threshold. I likewise suggest that you keep your level of preps as confidential as possible.

If anyone has a better solution I am game to hear it. :?

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by dtwn92 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:33 pm

gundogs wrote:
dtwn92 wrote:Well imo having guns, ammo and silver doesn't make you a prepper. It makes you a hobbies that read a few forum posts of blogs on what to do in a SHTF scenario.

The 1st thing you'll need is water, food as source of power and then security. I mean that isn't set in stone but K.I.S.S even applies here.
Exchanging a 1000 rounds in a fire fight is a good way to not having to worry about food any longer or breathing for that matter.

Being honest, food and water storage are my priority for now. Maybe one day I'll get to drop $10k on guns...maybe.
KISS? Becoming fully prepared for catastrophic natural or societal events is in no way simple. Some of us have spent years doing it
Of course, but in the context of the thread, purchasing arsenals of weapons and not having food is hardly Keeping it simple.

Some people have just started to prepare. Would you recommend them to buy guns or food? Would you tell them to go to a shooting range or tell them to buy canning materials? Food and water are the basics for life, thus....KEEPING (K) IT (I) SIMPLE (S) S.....(S).
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by raptor » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:33 pm

dtwn92 wrote: Some people have just started to prepare. Would you recommend them to buy guns or food? Would you tell them to go to a shooting range or tell them to buy canning materials? Food and water are the basics for life, thus....KEEPING (K) IT (I) SIMPLE (S) S.....(S).
This was not directed to me but I will answer anyway.

When asked by folks just starting out I always start with the questions about their plans for food, water and FAK needs. If they are not willing to make these basic plans I really do not want to advise them further. I know too many people who confuse firearm collecting with survival preparation as it is.

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by dtwn92 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:18 am

raptor wrote:
dtwn92 wrote: Some people have just started to prepare. Would you recommend them to buy guns or food? Would you tell them to go to a shooting range or tell them to buy canning materials? Food and water are the basics for life, thus....KEEPING (K) IT (I) SIMPLE (S) S.....(S).
This was not directed to me but I will answer anyway.

When asked by folks just starting out I always start with the questions about their plans for food, water and FAK needs. If they are not willing to make these basic plans I really do not want to advise them further. I know too many people who confuse firearm collecting with survival preparation as it is.
I absolutely agree. I am also glad I'm not the only one who thinks along this line.
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by lokifz1 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:03 am

When their wife and kids or just themselves are starving they are going to do what they have too.

Everyone is a possible marauder even you.
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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Witch-Doctor » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:00 pm

I think that this really comes down to the question of: how much prepping is the right amount of prepping? I mean, when food runs out none of us (no not even you) can say for sure that we wouldn't resort to less gentleman-like ways of continuing our survival. So, how much food should one reasonably stock away? Personally, as this is really all just a hobby for me right now, I've only set away enough to carry me through a couple of days in my BoB. My rational (and possibly a flawed one) is that if SHTF it'll either be a short-term thing that I can ride out on my normal stock of groceries or I'm just plain going to have to bug out to a better location. That being said, I do plan to expand my store of food to about a weeks worth but no more.

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Re: Do you know a future marauder?

Post by Browning 35 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:41 pm

Why not just ask the guy what he'd do?

I mean I'm pretty sure that given enough negative stimulus that most everyone on this board and most of mankind in general is capable to sprouting horns and fangs at the very least if someone they love is starving to death. Instead of focusing on that why not just give the guy some variation of 'Hey dude...I think you're good on the guns and ammo, what about some food and water?'. If he preps food and water the same way he has guns then no one ever need find out if he would have watched his girlfriend starve to death rather than take from someone else. Kind of a moot point.
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