Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Forum dedicated for rifles and shotguns from basic to tactical.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by azrael99 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:43 pm

if only your didn't have that embargo on chinese made firearm

THAT would be a great choice for a affordable but yet reliable and powerful rifle

Norinco made 14

Image

Image

Image

is there such thing as a "affordable" M14 ? i know those springfield armory are outrageously expensive, but i don't know other maker.
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by quazi » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:35 pm

azrael99 wrote:is there such thing as a "affordable" M14 ? i know those springfield armory are outrageously expensive, but i don't know other maker.
AFAIK the other makers are actually more expensive. :shock:

Are the Norinco M14s still around $400 in Canada?

User avatar
azrael99
* * * * *
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:55 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead, 28 days later, Zombieland, World war Z (when it gonna be out)
Location: Saguenay,Quebec Canada

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by azrael99 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:52 pm

Around 400-450 $ yes ^_^
"We stopped to look for monster under the bed , the day we realized that they were inside us"

User avatar
Kutter_0311
* * * * *
Posts: 6135
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:44 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: too many to get into...
Location: Frozen Tundra, WI

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by Kutter_0311 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:05 am

gundogs wrote:
Peas wrote:
I'm trying to choose between shotgun, semi-auto rifle in an intermediate cartridge and semi-auto rifle in a full-power cartridge for a defensive longarm. I'm also interested in various options within each category.
From the OP.
I know---just pointing out something based on my own experiences with semis when it's 20 below
I'd point out that AK's tend to ignore the cold;)
JAYNE COBB wrote: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.

vegasguy
* *
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:59 pm

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by vegasguy » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:49 am

Browning 35 wrote:
quazi wrote:I consider .308 to be a capable round when it comes to defense against grizzlies.
I'd have to disagree.

If a Grizzly was shot with a .308 and it had decent shot placement that targeted its vital organs effectively it would most certainly die....eventually. But it might not be quick enough to save you.

I'm no expert, I've been on a total of one bear hunt (Black bear). However for Grizzly I'm going to opt for more power and I'll give you an example why.
These two gents were calling elk in the Saddle Hills south of Woking when this big guy slipped in on the caller. The shooter spotted the grizzly bear 8 yards from the caller and dropped him with 5 shots out of his 338 Rem Mag. Farmers in the area knew about the grizzly bear but weren’t able to track it after it had killed 3 horses, 5 cows, 13 sheep and a pen full of chickens on several different homesteads in the area.
Fish and wildlife had bear traps set up in the area but noticed on surveillance video that whenever he would enter the trap his hump would hit the top slowing him enough that the trap door would wack him on the head before he was all the way in.
Check out the scar tissue on his face…..
Image
The bear weighed in just under 1300 pounds and would have stood 11 ¾ feet tall on its hind legs…..
Image

I believe that the .308's a fine cartridge and capable of taking black and brown bears with (especially when using a tree stand), but grizzly are BIG. I mean really BIG.

If you're comfortable with a .308 against Grizzly Bears that's fine, it's your hide, but for that specific threat I'd go with something bigger. Preferably something bigger than a .30 cal and who's name ended in 'Magnum'.

For all the other threats both two legged and four IMO the .308's fine, but you mentioned the .308 as a Grizzly cartridge and I'd have to respectfully disagree.

I personally would rather avoid ending up like this...
Grizzly Bear attack victim - *Graphic*

I have to ask, what did you do with meat and hide?

vegasguy
* *
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:59 pm

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by vegasguy » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:56 am

quazi wrote:Right now I think it's primarily Saiga .308 vs. FAL vs. .308 AR.

Do you guys think I'm on the right track with wanting to focus on learning to use one longarm as a defensive firearm? Would practice and training one type of AK translate well to another? For instance a .308 AK and a 7.62x39 AK and maybe a 12-guage AK? Recoil would be different and POI at various ranges would be different, but I imagine that controls would mostly be the same. Money isn't tight now but more likely than not it will be in the future.

I think that everyone pretty much understands what I'm going to be using the gun for, but I'll be a little more specific just in case:
This is not a firearm that I'm going to be using for hunting.
This is not a firearm that's going to be a general purpose woods gun.
This is going to be a firearm that I leave in my house and will be what I grab if I'm going to go investigate a potential threat inside or outside my home.

Why would you not bring this weapon with you? remember danger does not wait for you to be ready.

User avatar
UndeadInfidel
* * * * *
Posts: 2342
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:49 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Zombieland, Dawn of the Dead
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Contact:

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by UndeadInfidel » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:25 am

What about an AR10 in 300 winmag? (Nemo Arms Omen)

Image
Image

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by quazi » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:25 am

vegasguy wrote:
quazi wrote:Right now I think it's primarily Saiga .308 vs. FAL vs. .308 AR.

Do you guys think I'm on the right track with wanting to focus on learning to use one longarm as a defensive firearm? Would practice and training one type of AK translate well to another? For instance a .308 AK and a 7.62x39 AK and maybe a 12-guage AK? Recoil would be different and POI at various ranges would be different, but I imagine that controls would mostly be the same. Money isn't tight now but more likely than not it will be in the future.

I think that everyone pretty much understands what I'm going to be using the gun for, but I'll be a little more specific just in case:
This is not a firearm that I'm going to be using for hunting.
This is not a firearm that's going to be a general purpose woods gun.
This is going to be a firearm that I leave in my house and will be what I grab if I'm going to go investigate a potential threat inside or outside my home.

Why would you not bring this weapon with you? remember danger does not wait for you to be ready.
I'll probably be taking a firearm with me, just not this particular firearm.

Chances of having a bad bear encounter are pretty low (especially if I'm not acting stupid, but we're all stupid from time to time). Even though they're low, they're still worthwhile to make some preparations for (or at least the token effort does something to assuage my bearanoia). A handgun and/or bear spray is way more convenient to lug around than a rifle.

There are some places, situations and times where the chance of running into a bear is much higher. My general policy is just to avoid those places, situations and times. If for some reason I needed to go (like going back into the woods to haul out another moose quarter) then I would be inclined to take a suitable rifle or shotgun. Although packing a moose quarter is miserable enough without a long gun, so if someone else in my group had one I'd probably be lazy and only take a handgun.

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by quazi » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:27 am

UndeadInfidel wrote:What about an AR10 in 300 winmag? (Nemo Arms Omen)
My cursory Google search only turned up one place selling a Nero Arms Omen (the match version) and it was $5K. :shock:

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by quazi » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:24 am

So I might have tracked down a job and a place to live all in one. My mother is trying to buy a place and turn it into an inn. It's far enough away from her house that she doesn't want to run it, and says that I can have that job if I want it. This is still definitely not a sure thing yet, but if it happens it could be as early as a year from now.

The basic requirements are still the same, but I feel this changes things in two ways.

First is it seems like being discrete will be way more important. This is Alaska, but I imagine many people will either be from town or outside the state. Seeing me running around with a shotgun might freak the guests out some. This is making think that upgrading my Glock 20 might be a bigger priority (here's a link to a thread about that).

Second is money. The basic deal is that at first when it's not very busy I'll be working for room and board. This gives me lots of opportunity to work on my permaculture projects, but I might be living off my savings for a while. If it gets busy and becomes a real job then I'll start getting paid a wage.

I figure I should pinch my pennies a bit more than I originally thought. I'm thinking about not getting a rifle at all and just getting a semi-auto shotgun.

What do you guys think about the Mossberg 930 series? It's one of the least expensive, but I've read mixed reviews online.

Remington 1100 is a little more expensive. Is it any better?

I've heard good things about Beretta, but the only ones I've been seeing for under $1000 are in more of a hunting configuration.

The thing is that if I start getting close to $1000 then it puts me into PTR-91 range, and when I start thinking about a PTR-91 I creep even further and think that an AR and shotgun wouldn't be that much more expensive.

What about the less expensive imported shotguns? Tristar, CZ, Stoeger, etc. These are often in the $300-$400 range, but I would want to install an extended mag ($80) and I have no idea how reliable they are.

User avatar
brothaman
* * * * *
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: SC

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by brothaman » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:04 am

Just speaking to the Rem 1100. I think its a great shotty. My FIL had used the same same one for 30 years until is was stolen. Rarely clean, always worked, looked like shit. The one I had was great. Thousands upon thousands of shells through mine. Never failed me. As far a used price. Just bought one for my Grandfather. 2 3/4 vent rib 28' Skeet $390 OTD. It's super clean, lucky find. The gun show isn't the place to shop for these. Too much on the price tag at the shows. Pawn shops in my AO usually have them around the $400 mark and $450 for a really clean one. Anything other than 12g will cost you more. 12g chambered for 3 inch shells will cost you a lot more. Personally, I don't think 3 in shells are a huge improvement over 2 3/4. But, if you needed that, I'd have a Smith bore it out to 3in for the price difference. If I were looking for an 1100 for a do all shotty, I'd look for a really clean well functioning gun with no regard for choke. Then I'd get it threaded for Rem Chokes. Rem may have made one with removable chokes, but I've never seen one.

The Mossberg Semi is likely just as good. I just don't have any experience with it. I do have a Mossy 20ga pump and its just teats for what it is.
Last edited by brothaman on Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It stops being funny when it starts being you.

Nick Adams
* *
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by Nick Adams » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:41 pm

A Remington 1100 is a good shotgun, I've hunted many years with them, had a short barrel one with rifle sights and plastic forearm that I used for deer hunting and I think would be a ticket for something like bear protection. Was fast and handy and not to heavy.
1100s can have functioning problems which usually revolve around the gas rings.
I have an old Remington model 11 now from the 1920s , its a recoil operated shotgun basically a clone of the Browning A5 and it has been dead reliable as has the magnum A5 I used to hunt with.
Think I paid $120 for my Remington model 11 a few years ago so no reason you have to pay much for a good gun.

User avatar
procyon
* * * * *
Posts: 1101
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 5:56 am
Location: Iowa, USA

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by procyon » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:14 am

I have several 1100's. The one that I consider 'mine' - I bought when I was 12. That was 34 years ago.
Still works fine.
The trap range that I help out with stocks a number of them for folks (who don't have a gun, or had their's break during an event) to shoot. Most folks like them.
And if you are shooting heavy loads, autoloaders have a much gentler recoil pulse than pumps or break actions.

The issue with the neoprene ring is real. You need to pick up a spare or two. They wear out after enough rounds, but it isn't a 'quick' thing.
I can burn through several thousands of shells in a year trapshooting and just replace the ring over the winter. It isn't (usually) worn out, but I don't like suprises when I am hunting with it. I feel the couple bucks to replace it is worth my peace of mind.

Some 1100's, especially when new, can be finicky about being clean. They will fail to eject lower recoil shells if the gun hasn't been cleaned every couple hundred rounds. Once they wear in this tends to become less of an issue.

Hope this helps.
... I will show you fear in a handful of dust...

User avatar
Browning 35
BANNED
Posts: 4698
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead (2004).
28 Days Later.
Planet Terror.
Dawn of the Dead (1978).
Night of the Living Dead (1968)
Omega Man
Location: Texas

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by Browning 35 » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:10 am

quazi wrote:First is it seems like being discrete will be way more important. This is Alaska, but I imagine many people will either be from town or outside the state. Seeing me running around with a shotgun might freak the guests out some. This is making think that upgrading my Glock 20 might be a bigger priority (here's a link to a thread about that).
Just my opinion, but you don't really *need* to upgrade to a longer slide/6 in barrel or a red dot on that Glock 20 for it to work. Mine doesn't have any of those things and I'm still tearing the middle out of the target. Especially if you're having to pinch pennies.
I figure I should pinch my pennies a bit more than I originally thought. I'm thinking about not getting a rifle at all and just getting a semi-auto shotgun.

What do you guys think about the Mossberg 930 series? It's one of the least expensive, but I've read mixed reviews online.
Remington 1100 is a little more expensive. Is it any better?
My wife and I both have Rem 1100's for clays and dove, been shooting them for years and years and they're great. I have a bunch of other shotguns, but those two are the ones that get used the most. Not too much experience with the Mossberg autoloaders, but I've heard that they've gotten a whole lot better than they used to be. My family and friends all generally seem to default towards Remington, Beretta, Benelli for clays and bird hunting or lately those Tri-Star shotguns for back-seat duty, but I doubt there would be much of a difference between a 930 or 1100. Seen all kinds of positive reviews on the Mossy 930. Supposed to be a pretty good gun.
I've heard good things about Beretta, but the only ones I've been seeing for under $1000 are in more of a hunting configuration.
Umpteen years ago I bought a used Beretta semi shotgun (the model number escapes me though) from Fed Ord/Bricklee's Trading Company in El Monte California that had Scotland Yard stamps on it and that thing ran great. Paid $300-something for it. My best friend eventually talked me out of it as I was shotgun heavy and he didn't have one period. He still has it and it's continued to run this entire time (almost 20 years). You could try looking around for a used one, I occasionally see 1301's for a good price ($550).
The thing is that if I start getting close to $1000 then it puts me into PTR-91 range, and when I start thinking about a PTR-91 I creep even further and think that an AR and shotgun wouldn't be that much more expensive.
I personally think that you could find a good semi-auto shotgun for less than $5-600 bucks if that was the main sticking point, but they're slightly different animals and shouldn't really be compared.

Slugs or buckshot will drop a bear and will cost less.
What about the less expensive imported shotguns? Tristar, CZ, Stoeger, etc. These are often in the $300-$400 range, but I would want to install an extended mag ($80) and I have no idea how reliable they are.
Can't say much about Stoeger (little experience with them), but the CZ semi-auto shotguns are actually re-branded Turkish guns from Huglu, from handling/shooting them there seems to be more attention to detail on the fit and finish and the working parts seem to practically glide. Out of those three I'd put the CZ at the top just due to that. They're seriously very nice guns in both looks and function.

I don't own and have never owned a Tri-Star, but they seem like a pretty good deal for the money. Several friends have them (4 Raptor semi's and 2 pump Cobra's) and except for one Raptor that turned into a jamomatic piece of shit when fed the small mountain of cheap Winchester aluminum low base shells that my friend had and was trying to use up they've all raved about them and I haven't heard or seen anything negative. I should probably add that the same Raptor ran fine when fed similarly low priced low base brass shells from Federal and Remington.

Had the opportunity to shoot a few of the Tri-Star's and they seemed decent.

If I ever buy another shotgun it'll probably be a Beretta 1301 or a Remington 1100 Tactical though.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

User avatar
NamelessStain
* * * * *
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Location: Coastal SC

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by NamelessStain » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:16 am

Since I can't own this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39

I stay the hell out of grizzly country!
jnathan wrote:Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.
Q wrote:Buckle up

User avatar
JeeperCreeper
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 2338
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:49 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Twilight... making zombies of our future generations
Location: Yo Momma's House

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:38 am

There were a lot of cool tactical and "dream" guns on here... But we are talking Alaska. A place where rain likes to show up everyday and the weather is always changing from freezing to warm back to freezing in a day. You have an SKS already, that's a fine medium-caliber-semi-rifle for Alaska, it's been used by Russians in Siberia for decades. No need to get another rifle that will meet or fall short of an SKS.

My recommendations:
1. 12 gauge pump shotgun. A 'mariner' finish would be nice, but any Mossberg or Remington will work. I'd stay away from the off brands for parts and consistency purposes. Look up Brenneke Black Magic slugs for bear defense... buckshot through birdshot for the little guys.
2. Lever-action rifle (any .45-70 will do, perhaps even a magnum BLR if you have expensive taste) or even a pump rifle (Rem 7600 in .30-06 would do nicely) If you MUST have a repeater, I'd stay away from regular semi autos (freeze up/rust in bad conditions from over-complexity AND super pricey).

Check out an Alaskan Hunting forum if you need more validation in your research. GOOD LUCK WITH WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by quazi » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:46 pm

Browning 35 wrote:Just my opinion, but you don't really *need* to upgrade to a longer slide/6 in barrel or a red dot on that Glock 20 for it to work. Mine doesn't have any of those things and I'm still tearing the middle out of the target. Especially if you're having to pinch pennies.
I'm thinking your right. While I want one, it's probably not worth the extra money at this point.

I'm going to pick up a semi-auto shotgun in the near-term, and see how much money I have for other guns in the spring. There's a bunch of fun stuff I'm probably going to have to forgo.

I'm not sure whether I should be looking at the shorter shotguns (<20" barrel, 6-7+1 capacity) or the longer ones (>20" barrel, 8-9+1 capacity). I was thinking the greater capacity might be better, and it's doubtful I'd be clearing rooms so I don't think the extra length would be a handicap. Are the longer shotguns more unwieldy?

What do you guys think about the Catamount series of AK-style shotguns? Most of the reviews I've read say they are reliable, but only if you adjust the gas system for the load you are shooting. I've seen them for as low as $400 and the magazines are a lot cheaper than Saiga mags.

User avatar
JeeperCreeper
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 2338
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:49 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Twilight... making zombies of our future generations
Location: Yo Momma's House

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by JeeperCreeper » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:38 pm

quazi wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:Just my opinion, but you don't really *need* to upgrade to a longer slide/6 in barrel or a red dot on that Glock 20 for it to work. Mine doesn't have any of those things and I'm still tearing the middle out of the target. Especially if you're having to pinch pennies.
I'm thinking your right. While I want one, it's probably not worth the extra money at this point.

I'm going to pick up a semi-auto shotgun in the near-term, and see how much money I have for other guns in the spring. There's a bunch of fun stuff I'm probably going to have to forgo.

I'm not sure whether I should be looking at the shorter shotguns (<20" barrel, 6-7+1 capacity) or the longer ones (>20" barrel, 8-9+1 capacity). I was thinking the greater capacity might be better, and it's doubtful I'd be clearing rooms so I don't think the extra length would be a handicap. Are the longer shotguns more unwieldy?

What do you guys think about the Catamount series of AK-style shotguns? Most of the reviews I've read say they are reliable, but only if you adjust the gas system for the load you are shooting. I've seen them for as low as $400 and the magazines are a lot cheaper than Saiga mags.
It seems you would rather have a tactical range toy than a utility weapon... which is fine, I would be jealous of your purchase so don't think that I am "flaming" you :D . But I just think it's slightly impractical for a homestead gun. A long barreled, 8+ round semi auto shotgun is going to weigh a ton. You're looking for a homestead gun, not a 3-gun competition shotgun. There is a reason I swapped out my camp shotgun with a cut down Ithaca 16 gauge because it weighs only 5 pounds and is 100% reliable. It's pretty hard to jam a pump. That's the reason most guides/hunters/farmers/outdoorsman all across the world in rough conditions rely on bolt, lever, pump action long guns. It is the same reason 95% of the people in Alaska carry a revolver in the brush instead of a Desert Eagle or polymer wonder (Glock 20 is still a great choice IMHO).

To answer your AK style shotgun question, I have no experience with an AK style shotgun, however my AK74 has been nothing but reliable as with most AK platforms. My brother is a commercial fisherman in Alaska and his captain has a Saiga .308 on the boat at all times and that has also been 100% reliable. But those are rifle variants. They refuse to use an AK shotguns for field guns, and they rely on Mossbergs/Remingtons along with all my family. I honestly don't know one person who uses an AK shotgun for anything else other than a range toy. BUT...... IF you wanted a semi, I have heard great things about the Mossberg 930 and they are not too badly priced either.

Again, Good Luck no matter what!!!!
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by quazi » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:19 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:It seems you would rather have a tactical range toy than a utility weapon... which is fine, I would be jealous of your purchase so don't think that I am "flaming" you :D.
No worries, you definitely don't sound like you're flaming. I like constructive criticism.
JeeperCreeper wrote:But I just think it's slightly impractical for a homestead gun. A long barreled, 8+ round semi auto shotgun is going to weigh a ton. You're looking for a homestead gun, not a 3-gun competition shotgun. There is a reason I swapped out my camp shotgun with a cut down Ithaca 16 gauge because it weighs only 5 pounds and is 100% reliable.
I'm going to pretty much be leaving this shotgun in a convenient place indoors, not carrying it around all the time. Since this is the case I was thinking that weight doesn't matter nearly so much. If this was a bear defense gun for hiking then I would definitely be looking to get something as light as possible.

I'm not sure if the extra weight at the end would make it significantly slower to swing around quickly. I've tried looking on Mossberg's website and both the 18.5" barrel 930 SPX and the 24" barrel Miculek model were listed at 7.75 lbs. :? I wonder if Mossberg just weighed one model in their 930 line and put that as the listed weight for all of them.

(While I probably won't be competing in 3-gun, I must admit the fun factor does influence most of my firearms purchases.)
JeeperCreeper wrote:It's pretty hard to jam a pump. That's the reason most guides/hunters/farmers/outdoorsman all across the world in rough conditions rely on bolt, lever, pump action long guns. It is the same reason 95% of the people in Alaska carry a revolver in the brush instead of a Desert Eagle or polymer wonder (Glock 20 is still a great choice IMHO).
My understanding is that a pump is more forgiving when it comes to ammunition problems (notably under-powered loads) but a semi-auto is more forgiving of operator error (notably short-stroking). Ammunition problems can hopefully be overcome by finding a reliable load, while operator errors can hopefully be overcome with training. When it comes to defensive firearms, there is something very appealing to me about not having to do any action other than pull the trigger, which is why I've been leaning towards a semi-auto shotgun.

I do like it when people disagree with me. Sometimes I worry that I've gone down a rabbit hole and it's nice to get a different perspective.

I read a bunch more reviews of the Catamount Fury shotguns. For the most part it sounds like it's a pretty reliable gun, but quality control is poor so there is also a decent chance you'll wind up with a lemon. It also sounds like they might be made of of pretty poor metal and might wear out early. I was excited because I could get one and a whole bunch of magazines for less than a Mossberg 930, but after reading further reviews I think I'll pass.

User avatar
Sworbeyegib
* * * * *
Posts: 3361
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: night of the living dead is what started it all for me
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by Sworbeyegib » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:20 pm

Although it is quite expensive, I can't speak highly enough about the Remington Versa max. I've always been a "pump guy", and a little wary of autoloaders. My dad bought a versa max a couple of years ago and I've been blown away by the performance, and it made me rethink my attitude towards autoloading shotguns. I borrow it whenever I can.

It is just a tad longer, and heavier than my Mossberg 590, but is so well balanced that it handles about the same. As fast as I can work a pump, there is no comparison in speed. And I haven't had a single malfunction in it, even after many long days of shooting clays.

The big "selling point" of the versa max is that you can run anything from 2 3/4" target loads to 3 1/2" slugs without any adjustments to the gas system. You could literally stack them alternating in the tube and the gun will keep chugging them out.

The price though, is why I haven't bought one for myself yet.
**Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't**

Image

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska *New twist*

Post by quazi » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:56 pm

I just put in an order for a Mossberg 930 SX from Bud's. That's the 18.5" barrel, 7+1 capacity model with the no protruding pistol grip. With shipping and FFL transfer fee it should come out to $690.

User avatar
quazi
* * * * *
Posts: 4466
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:51 am
Location: AK

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by quazi » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:53 am

Update: I like my 930 SX. The sights are really nice, but I think that for a close up defense shotgun I would actually prefer either a traditional bead or notch-and-post sights with a wide notch.

Surprisingly it has been 100% reliable with bird shot for everyone but one of my cousins. For some reason when he shoots light trap loads it jams just about every time.

The loading gate is the only thing I don't like about it. It wants to pinch my thumb. I've found that if I really jam the shells in there and don't pussyfoot around trying to be careful it doesn't pinch my thumb.

I didn't really put much thought into a .458 SOCOM AR when it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but my cousin bought one this summer and now it is high up on my want list. I don't think I'm going to sell my shotgun, but damn I'm tempted.

clarence
* *
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Defensive longarm for a homestead in Alaska

Post by clarence » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:58 am

FWIW, Tikka T3 CTR in .308 the new Canadian Ranger rifle.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/ ... an-rangers
It's not looting if you leave a note.

Post Reply

Return to “Longarms - Shotguns and Rifles”