Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Beowolf » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:52 pm

I have a tendency to obsess about things. And lately I've been thinking more and more about people who are preparing for social and political meltdown. They come in all shapes and sizes and types: the bug out baggers, the extreme preppers, the isolationionists, the militia and compound groups, and even the weekend warriors who shoot targets of bin Laden with their sniper rifles off in the distant country and mountain lands. They're preparing for anything, whether it be a hurricane, earthquake, terrorist bombings, nuclear explosions, or martial law, but one thing remains clear--they're afraid of something. (Now, here is where some may say, "We're not afraid--we're preparing." Whatever. You're afraid of someone taking your shit or your life. Being afraid doesn't mean you're weak; it simply means you acknowledge the severe risk that others or things can pose to your well-being. If you prefer a semantic argument, you're 'concerned' about X, Y, or Z.)

I get fascinated by these ideas and people for many reasons, some of them practical and some of them academic and intellectual. I study rhetoric, communication, and sociology, and I can't help but look at these groups and wonder all of the whys and wherefors that motivate them to act in the ways that they do. And, unfortunately, I often am presented with the reality that they may indeed be the real threat--rather than a 'defensive' presence--if things ever took a turn for the worse.

This isn't so much about what might happen, but, rather, how you see things playing out if something happens. You don't need to play Rambo ("Bring 'em on. I'm ready..."), unless you actually are ready. And then I'm interested in what you've done and how you're situating yourself for the fall of social order. Now, preparation is one thing. But how will you manage when the SHTF? How will you band together with others? How will you know whom you can trust? Or will you stay solo? I know that part of ZS is to find like-minded people with whom we might join in an attempt to defend ourselves and rebuild after Armageddon. But how can/will we be able to separate the dangerous from the useful?

That is to say, who would you think would be coming for you: the government/military? Or other civilians? Or...?

(Keeping in mind to avoid politics with this.)
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by pyratemime » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:11 pm

Given I am military I can only assume the people you mentioned are the people coming for me.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by DarkAxel » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:33 pm

I'm not a doomsday prepper, nor do my preps extend into the range of the [Politics].

The people I'm most worried about during a disaster are looters looking to score flat-screens and anyone trying to take my preps by force or without my consent. Since I am vocal about disaster preparation, I have heard of people who plan to target my home if something does happen.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by TacAir » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:48 pm

I guess it's how you want to define - "rebuild after Armageddon."

If my house burns to the ground, all to common, and far more common than the Zombie Apocalypse / Armageddon, I'll be looking for my insurance agent.

If my community gets hit with a massive earthquake, as has happened before, I'll be looking for my family. We will try to be no burden and help others.

If there is a world-wide disaster, well, I guess I'll need to add another book to my series....
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by RoneKiln » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:58 pm

Up until a few years ago, it was a small horde of college kids suffering from some combination of cold, wet, heartache, scared, or bored. My place was everyone's "bug-out" place when life got rough. Not a week went by that I wasn't making dinner unexpectedly for half a dozen people. I regularly had at least one extra mouth to feed. Keeping a very well stocked pantry with foods bought affordably in bulk made a big difference.

In the long run, it's paid off for me. Those kids are mostly grown up, and a lot of them still go out of their way to look out for me. It's been a big part of allowing me to be able to be surrounded by amazing people that contribute to my life as much or more than I have to theirs. It's why I'm very vocal on this site about the value of maintaining strong social connections.

I guess my "fear" is not being able to be there for people I care about. Good people are hesitant to take money when times are tough. Accepting some extra groceries that are "old and need to be cleared out" is easier on their pride. Then there are times of power outage, snow storm, flooding, etc. I like knowing that my people are safe and welcome in my home.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Beowolf » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:06 am

RoneKiln, I think that really gets to the heart of at least one of the concerns that prompted this thread. How do we maintain or form community in disaster? I know there are academic studies of such things--some of my friends have actually authored them--so that's certainly one place I could look. But qualitative research of the type that informs such work isn't exactly generalizable (while similarities across experiences might be found, nothing holds that such similarities will be found). So I'm curious about people here. Do you only trust those you know? Or do you join forces with others who appear useful/productive? If you choose to only accept those who seem to have something to contribute, what happens to those you actively choose to leave behind? Or would some of us do anything possible to protect anyone we stumble across in the PAW?

It's probably easy to form an off-the-cuff response to this contingency. But I think some of us have probably thought about it harder than the average person out there. It really does get to the core of some of our individual and collective beliefs about community, morality, and survival.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Deschain » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:20 am

Beowolf wrote:RoneKiln, I think that really gets to the heart of at least one of the concerns that prompted this thread. How do we maintain or form community in disaster? I know there are academic studies of such things--some of my friends have actually authored them--so that's certainly one place I could look. But qualitative research of the type that informs such work isn't exactly generalizable (while similarities across experiences might be found, nothing holds that such similarities will be found). So I'm curious about people here. Do you only trust those you know? Or do you join forces with others who appear useful/productive? If you choose to only accept those who seem to have something to contribute, what happens to those you actively choose to leave behind? Or would some of us do anything possible to protect anyone we stumble across in the PAW?

It's probably easy to form an off-the-cuff response to this contingency. But I think some of us have probably thought about it harder than the average person out there. It really does get to the core of some of our individual and collective beliefs about community, morality, and survival.
It depends on who you're looking at. For me, I have extended family in the area, and we've always been family oriented. We're a tight knit -and forgive the verbage here- clan. It wouldn't be hard for me to fold back into the bunch. I have a grandmother who grew up dirt poor, my mom and dad who are used to having plenty of extra mouths to feed (much like Kiln). Other might fold into churches, ethnic groups (look at the Rodney King Riots for a good example of that), neighborhoods, gangs...

Me, I'm trying to eke by acknowledging that I'm not going to let a kid go hungry or leave a woman out and exposed. I have (crappy) extras of almost every main prep, and I know that I'm almost certainly going to be overburdened. But then again, I've gotten to know a lot of people in my building, and I have relationships here. Communities will form after any given disaster. Period.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Beowolf » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:28 am

Deschain wrote:Communities will form after any given disaster. Period.
Absolutely they will. But there's a difference between intentional community and incidental community. The incidentals are the ones who tolerate each other or who have 'no other choice' but to cooperate. And that isn't really community, unless we are defining community geographically and temporally rather than ethically and emotionally.

I suppose this question goes along with another I asked in another thread (about books)--what type of world would we want to recreate if the one we knew collapsed? I think the way we view community will define what that new world will look like, and I feel like we'd be repeating quickly some mistakes that we've already been committing slowly.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Deschain » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:38 am

Beowolf wrote:
Deschain wrote:Communities will form after any given disaster. Period.
Absolutely they will. But there's a difference between intentional community and incidental community. The incidentals are the ones who tolerate each other or who have 'no other choice' but to cooperate. And that isn't really community, unless we are defining community geographically and temporally rather than ethically and emotionally.
Getting all fancy, huh? How's about this. I live in an apartment building. The bonds I've formed with the people I see every day may be incidental, but they aren't 'no other choice'. Sure, we're crammed in old-ass, moldy 1940's apartments so warped by time I haven't seen a baseboard touch the floor, but me and the neighbors seem to get along fine for reasons other than we're here. Intentional community is, in a word, luxury. If wishes were horses, we'd all have steak and glue. As it is, in my extended family, I'm the only armed person. People will form communities because that's the way we're wired. It'll be more than absolute need, situation, etc.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by NorrisUnleashed » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:13 am

The town I live in was a lumber camp until San Franciscans "bugged out"after the 1906 quake. Now its a small mountain town that used to be a medium sized city. I worry a lot about people heading for the hills again and ruining the place I live. Im really only one bad earthquake away from some dude trying to use my porch as a toilet, or forcefully begging for food that I cant give. I dont like thinking about the extremes that one may have to do in order to protect family and property, but that doesnt mean that I wont defend my family and food from people who have "Bugged out" of some metropolitan area and now have to rely on other people or scavenge.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Murphman » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:34 am

Beowolf wrote:
Deschain wrote:Communities will form after any given disaster. Period.
Absolutely they will. But there's a difference between intentional community and incidental community. The incidentals are the ones who tolerate each other or who have 'no other choice' but to cooperate. And that isn't really community, unless we are defining community geographically and temporally rather than ethically and emotionally.

I suppose this question goes along with another I asked in another thread (about books)--what type of world would we want to recreate if the one we knew collapsed? I think the way we view community will define what that new world will look like, and I feel like we'd be repeating quickly some mistakes that we've already been committing slowly.
I think you are assuming too much by thinking that something apocalyptic IS going to happen. I think many here are preparing for the disasters that have more than a very, very, very (I want to add more, I really do) small chance of happening. Earthquakes, hurricanes (guilty), job loss, etc. are the disasters many prepare for, yet there is a modern notion that anyone who says "preparedness" is a tin-foil hat wearing goof. I think the "doomsday prepper" mantra is completely sensationalized and tiresome. Whatever happened to the common sense of "Always be Prepared"? That means more than Doomsday.

I prep because I live in a hurricane zone. The last hurricane that struck my area left the power out for 2 weeks (15 total days). According to the locals, everyone was fine, there was no looting and people looked out for each other (those that stayed). I purposely bought my house in a non-evacuation area (almost the entire state of Florida would have to be underwater for me to be underwater), I have cocktails with more than a few of my neighbors on occasion, and I like to walk around the neighborhood and create small talk with my neighbors. I don't think that is trying to create an intentional community, but it is creating community regardless. It will have to be good enough as my finances do not allow a mountain fortress or abandoned nuclear silo. :shock:
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Turtlewolf » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:46 am

I don't think any one will actualy.
The most likely disaster here is a severe H2S gas release which means anyone who survives will be long gone.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by DarkandShiny » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:08 am

Thanks Beowolf. You've asked a question that I'd to answer.
I can't help but look at these groups and wonder all of the whys and wherefors that motivate them to act in the ways that they do.
For me it was the fires in San Diego in October of 2007. I found myself unprepared and had to rely on the help of others for the well being for my wife and two small children. It was a terrible feeling... I've posted about it before and I won't go into the details here. But that event has marked me. Am I afraid of something like that happening again? You bet.

My wife and I have made decisions on what responsibilities and roles we must fill. Some work is shared (like doing the dishes and cleaning house) other responsibilities are assigned. My wife stays home with the kids, I go to work to earn money, that sort of thing. My PRIMARY responsibility as a husband and father is to protect and provide for my family. The day my family and I were evacuated was the day I realized I had failed in that, my most sacred responsibility. That is why I prepare. I will never again be found without a plan, without a way to provide for, protect, and defend my family.

Your other questions while interesting, are not as important to me. My personal view of what potential disasters may be are not as movie-worthy as others are planning (hoping) for.

Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Bahamut » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:03 pm

If anyone can correct me if I am wrong, I am all for it, but I have noticed that the riots that a lot of preppers fear, only seem to happen in major cities. Now because I live in a suburb and near a city that is nowhere the size of a major city, I don't have that fear. I focus on the natural disasters like hurricanes that are prone to my AO. I maintain some combat experience (unarmed and armed) to account for a TEOFTWAWKI type disaster where there are hordes of desperate people who have become similar to a swarm of locusts. Of course, I would try to teach and help them if I could to convert them to self-sustaining.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by RoneKiln » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:51 pm

Beowolf wrote:RoneKiln, I think that really gets to the heart of at least one of the concerns that prompted this thread. How do we maintain or form community in disaster? I know there are academic studies of such things--some of my friends have actually authored them--so that's certainly one place I could look. But qualitative research of the type that informs such work isn't exactly generalizable (while similarities across experiences might be found, nothing holds that such similarities will be found). So I'm curious about people here. Do you only trust those you know? Or do you join forces with others who appear useful/productive? If you choose to only accept those who seem to have something to contribute, what happens to those you actively choose to leave behind? Or would some of us do anything possible to protect anyone we stumble across in the PAW?

It's probably easy to form an off-the-cuff response to this contingency. But I think some of us have probably thought about it harder than the average person out there. It really does get to the core of some of our individual and collective beliefs about community, morality, and survival.
Most of the scenario's we could dream up here roughly fall into one of two categories: regional or personal disasters that will be temporary due to the world's infrastructure lending a hand in rebuilding, or worldwide events that lead to permanent change in how we live.

Regional/personal disasters are by far the most likely. In a collective sense, nobody will be left behind. If they are, it's due to violence that is largely out of your control. So it's not something to worry over as it's not in your control. Even if you don't have enough food on hand for everyone, there is aid and support enroute to help. Nobody will starve. The value of your preps here is so that your life is not disrupted as badly as it would have otherwise. You have a well stocked pantry so everyone else making panicked runs on the grocery store doesn't affect you. You have water if the city water is affected. You have means to cook, light, and heat your home if the power is out. The preps are more about comfort and calm in the face of calamity than truly saving your life. In these scenarios, I look after anyone that isn't a jerk. Jerks get tossed out. They won't die. There's aid stations for them to go to. All nonjerks get looked after to the best of my ability. Cause that's the right thing to do. It represents who I want to be and how I want to live my life.

World meltdown is not a likely scenario. Within that slim likelihood, the most likely scenario would be a gradual breakdown. Not nuclear war, worldwide famine, or X political/minority/ideological group rising up. It would be gradual economic decline and infrastructure breakdown caused by a large combination of factors. Your preps would give you a significant advantage in adjusting to this change in our world. You would see people moving back into larger households to save money. Lawns would begin to vanish to be replaced by vegetable gardens. Crime may skyrocket in some areas, but it wouldn't be a Mad Max movie overnight. People can adapt to a lot. Take this scenario out far enough, and manpower becomes a valuable commodity. You need people to grow food and provide for all your needs with hand tools and likely limited power and materials. Manpower will become valuable and anyone willing to learn and work hard will have value. You won't want to leave a lot of people behind unless they're violent or refuse to provide for themselves. Many that initially refuse to contribute will eventually get hungry enough to come around. You'll have time to form community.

If the worst happens and you get a pack of lunatics thinking they can run amok cause the "world's ending," you can hopefully scare them off with a few warning shots. Hopefully you help drive them off while they're messing with the neighbor half a mile down the road. Don't wait for them to get to your home where you're hiding out in the basement hoping they don't notice you. If they're too determined to run at the sound of a few shots, I hope you made a strong effort to help your neighbors put their gardens in and prepare themselves when things got rough. Cause you're going to need their help. People are more willing to stand up and help people that have already helped them.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by phractal » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:29 am

The communities I exist in are "preppers" out of necessity. Be it the seafaring community or simple islanders. You can't live here and not be a part of a resilient community. Everyone literally knows everyone else. And I prep not because I'm scared of someone coming to take from me, but rather because I fear not being able to render help to those who have helped me.

Live in a place where hardship and disaster can and do happen with some frequency and you'll witness community unlike any place where emergency services are Johnny on the spot. The only unprepared people out here are fucking tourists. :roll:
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by ninja-elbow » Tue May 21, 2013 10:18 am

Just want to note - good thread. Thanks :)

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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Beowolf » Tue May 21, 2013 10:33 am

RoneKiln wrote:Most of the scenario's we could dream up here roughly fall into one of two categories: regional or personal disasters that will be temporary due to the world's infrastructure lending a hand in rebuilding, or worldwide events that lead to permanent change in how we live.

Regional/personal disasters are by far the most likely. In a collective sense, nobody will be left behind. If they are, it's due to violence that is largely out of your control. So it's not something to worry over as it's not in your control. Even if you don't have enough food on hand for everyone, there is aid and support enroute to help. Nobody will starve. The value of your preps here is so that your life is not disrupted as badly as it would have otherwise. You have a well stocked pantry so everyone else making panicked runs on the grocery store doesn't affect you. You have water if the city water is affected. You have means to cook, light, and heat your home if the power is out. The preps are more about comfort and calm in the face of calamity than truly saving your life. In these scenarios, I look after anyone that isn't a jerk. Jerks get tossed out. They won't die. There's aid stations for them to go to. All nonjerks get looked after to the best of my ability. Cause that's the right thing to do. It represents who I want to be and how I want to live my life.

World meltdown is not a likely scenario. Within that slim likelihood, the most likely scenario would be a gradual breakdown. Not nuclear war, worldwide famine, or X political/minority/ideological group rising up. It would be gradual economic decline and infrastructure breakdown caused by a large combination of factors. Your preps would give you a significant advantage in adjusting to this change in our world. You would see people moving back into larger households to save money. Lawns would begin to vanish to be replaced by vegetable gardens. Crime may skyrocket in some areas, but it wouldn't be a Mad Max movie overnight. People can adapt to a lot. Take this scenario out far enough, and manpower becomes a valuable commodity. You need people to grow food and provide for all your needs with hand tools and likely limited power and materials. Manpower will become valuable and anyone willing to learn and work hard will have value. You won't want to leave a lot of people behind unless they're violent or refuse to provide for themselves. Many that initially refuse to contribute will eventually get hungry enough to come around. You'll have time to form community.

If the worst happens and you get a pack of lunatics thinking they can run amok cause the "world's ending," you can hopefully scare them off with a few warning shots. Hopefully you help drive them off while they're messing with the neighbor half a mile down the road. Don't wait for them to get to your home where you're hiding out in the basement hoping they don't notice you. If they're too determined to run at the sound of a few shots, I hope you made a strong effort to help your neighbors put their gardens in and prepare themselves when things got rough. Cause you're going to need their help. People are more willing to stand up and help people that have already helped them.
This latter part is closer to my concern. Whether worldwide meltdown or large scale social upheaval, my primary concern would be these roving bands of hoarders, marauders, and looters. Some of them would be in it for survival, and some of them would be in it just to break and take shit. That's just how I envision a good deal of people being when the social restraints and restrictions are lifted (as in upheaval or social/political breakdown). Certainly not unlike the roving undead, but zombies don't usually carry weapons.

These groups are the ones who have me more concerned.
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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Mikeyboy » Thu May 23, 2013 3:42 pm

I hate to burst everyone bubbles, but the funny thing is, according to Sociologist most likely no one is coming for you after a disaster.

http://training.fema.gov/emiweb/downloa ... sandem.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Disaster Myths. Historically, the most significant contribution of sociological research on disasters has been the correction of distorted images of human response (e.g., Quarantelli 1960; Quarantelli and Dynes 1972). Images of panic, looting, and other such anti-social behavior were debunked and properly labeled as myths. That is not to claim that such forms of anti-social behavior never occur. They do. But the image of such behavior as the prevailing response is an exaggeration that simply is wrong. Both the public and emergency officials were found to support such erroneous notions (Wenger et 12 al. 1975; Wenger et al. 1980; Fischer 1998). One of the most widely circulated documents among local emergency managers outlined these myths and the evidence that debunked them (Dynes et al. 1972). Today, many emergency management professionals point


Its all about how strong your community and family bonds are, and your moral character is before the SHTF. When the PAW happens will grandmom pull a clever and go cannibal on you...unless she is already nuts probably not. Will Bob your neighbor down the block put on a hockey mask, and a leather thong, go all Lord Humongous on your house with 20 of his friends..probably not.

If the SHTF and law and order disappears, the criminals will still be criminals, and those with low moral character who are borderline criminals but choose not to because of the law will start to act out. That is why riots and looting usually occur in high crime area like South Central LA, or NOLA after Katrina. Beyond that the vast majority of people will focus on their family and their community, fix what is broken, and try to re-connect with society, or create their own . The city of Venice was founded by refugees from Roman cities near Venice such as Padua, Aquileia, Treviso, Altino and Concordia and from the undefended countryside, who were fleeing successive waves of Germanic and Hun invasions. The City of Sarajevo was under siege for 4 years, did all its starving citizens go completely bonkers and kill and eat each other? No they suffered, some criminal looted but most adapted and improvised. The learned how to avoid the sniper fire, created black markets, flowerpot gardens, and schools in apartment staircases. Even in real desperate situations of cannibalism, Like in Jamestown or the Rugby Team Crash in the Andies, there is a social code.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice#History" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.friends-partners.org/bosnia/surintro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the end, More criminals will commit crime, more crazy people will go crazy, but your average joes will try to rebuild, re-create society and work together to survive.

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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by Stercutus » Thu May 23, 2013 4:57 pm

I have a tendency to obsess about things. And lately I've been thinking more and more about people who are preparing for social and political meltdown. They come in all shapes and sizes and types: the bug out baggers, the extreme preppers, the isolationionists, the militia and compound groups, and even the weekend warriors who shoot targets of bin Laden with their sniper rifles off in the distant country and mountain lands. They're preparing for anything, whether it be a hurricane, earthquake, terrorist bombings, nuclear explosions, or martial law, but one thing remains clear--they're afraid of something. (Now, here is where some may say, "We're not afraid--we're preparing." Whatever. You're afraid of someone taking your shit or your life. Being afraid doesn't mean you're weak; it simply means you acknowledge the severe risk that others or things can pose to your well-being. If you prefer a semantic argument, you're 'concerned' about X, Y, or Z.)
Afraid: Worried that something undesirable will occur or be done
Are not we all?
I get fascinated by these ideas and people for many reasons, some of them practical and some of them academic and intellectual. I study rhetoric, communication, and sociology, and I can't help but look at these groups and wonder all of the whys and wherefors that motivate them to act in the ways that they do. And, unfortunately, I often am presented with the reality that they may indeed be the real threat--rather than a 'defensive' presence--if things ever took a turn for the worse.
Curious. So by making a broad generalization of people who exercise preparedness you are lumping them (and by association yourself) into a big group. Sounds like you are buying into the "doomsday prepper" "SPLC: OMG these people have guns we have to do something" mind set. Strange you are buying in to this indiscriminately. You do realize that there are lots of different kinds of people out there?
This isn't so much about what might happen, but, rather, how you see things playing out if something happens. You don't need to play Rambo ("Bring 'em on. I'm ready..."), unless you actually are ready. And then I'm interested in what you've done and how you're situating yourself for the fall of social order. Now, preparation is one thing. But how will you manage when the SHTF? How will you band together with others? How will you know whom you can trust? Or will you stay solo? I know that part of ZS is to find like-minded people with whom we might join in an attempt to defend ourselves and rebuild after Armageddon. But how can/will we be able to separate the dangerous from the useful?
And then
How do we maintain or form community in disaster? I know there are academic studies of such things--some of my friends have actually authored them--so that's certainly one place I could look. But qualitative research of the type that informs such work isn't exactly generalizable (while similarities across experiences might be found, nothing holds that such similarities will be found). So I'm curious about people here. Do you only trust those you know? Or do you join forces with others who appear useful/productive? If you choose to only accept those who seem to have something to contribute, what happens to those you actively choose to leave behind? Or would some of us do anything possible to protect anyone we stumble across in the PAW?
Whenever this topic comes up I say the same thing. Whoever the people are in your community that are the decision makers today will be the decision makers tomorrow, especially after the town gets leveled (assuming they are still alive). They may not stay that way for long if they are grossly incompetent but they will stay that way for a while. If you want to have an impact on your community then you need to be acting now and not waiting till the balloon goes up. No one is going to look towards the mysterious stranger in their mists to solve problems when there is sewage running in the streets. The same people that make sure the lights are on today will be responsible for getting them turned on again.

If there is a wide break and society goes completely upside down (say a land war in your country) then things will change a bit as other persons and groups will try to assert themselves and seize power. How successful they are depends a lot upon how unsuccessful the current group running the trains are.
That is to say, who would you think would be coming for you: the government/military? Or other civilians? Or...?
The same people that come for you the rest of the time. However, if there is no one there with the power to stop them from running loose and committing whatever atrocities they wish there will be a lot more of them. I would say the number of threats increases exponentially based upon the time it takes to restore rule of law and the resources that are being fought over.


I hate to burst everyone bubbles, but the funny thing is, according to Sociologist most likely no one is coming for you after a disaster.
Strange you go straight to Yugoslavia after that remark. Hundreds of thousands dead, millions of refugees in a civil war that went on strong for 8 years. Cities leveled, mass rape camps, genocidal campaigns, just about every atrocity you can think of committed. You talk about flower pot gardening making it seem quaint. Who came for people? Just about everyone was trying to kill someone at some point.

Sure a hurricane blitzes through and you don't expect to see Sherman's Army marching South to burn your farm. You might, maybe face a looter or two. But not all disasters are created equal.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by fidalgoman » Thu May 23, 2013 6:22 pm

I don't think anybody is coming for me, unless of course it's walking dead.

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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by doc savage » Sat May 25, 2013 11:03 am

Who is coming for me? common criminals
as a big city dweller, where no one likes anyone else to start with, being the only person in the neighborhood with a nice ( functional) car and well maintained property ( next to falling down burnt out crack houses), I believe that my concern over my neighbors is justified.my family is an obvious target, pre disaster. there have been racial incidents, beatings, fires/ arson , drug crime, and a half dozen broad daylight shootings here this year, pre disaster. all it would take to devolve into a deeper level of hell would be a few days without electricity and reduced police response.

knowing all of that, anything that occurred would only be temporary. they can burn the house down while i'm gone for all I care. I have insurance for that. am I going to make a last stand defending a slice of urban rot? nope. am I going to "bug out" to the hills with 30000 rounds of ammo and live off the one single deer in the whole of south jersey? nope. my plan involves loading an arm full of valuables and documents into the car, and driving across the river to a safer neighborhood. people doing stupid things in large disorganized groups generally get rearranged by people doing aggressive things in organized groups.

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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by MPMalloy » Wed May 29, 2013 4:37 pm

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Re: Chaos hits. Who would be coming for you?

Post by 51MEANTXGUNS50 » Thu May 30, 2013 6:22 am

I've been known to educate people on their rights when dealing with police and the sad fact of the matter is while some cops are happy that citizens know their rights and take time to study the law, others take it personally and accuse you undermining their authority and just be rude and condescending and unprofessional about it. If something ever popped off I'm sure I'd be targeted on those grounds by several LE depts as a result.
"Violence is not a game, nor is it a cartoon. Violence is sickeningly real, it hurts, it ruins lives, and it has lasting medical, psychological, legal, and social repercussions. Violence is not something to be toyed with, it is something to be avoided through whatever means necessary. Violence is not fun."

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