SHTF animals. LlAMA

[Marxist]

I hear a lot of people saying they would have a K9 or various other animals to help them in the Zombie apocalypse. So what would or is your choice of animal? I would choose a Llama, so it could carry gear.

[PackLemming]

I hear a lot of people saying they would have a K9 or various other animals to help them in the Zombie apocalypse. So what would or is your choice of animal? I would choose a Llama, so it could carry gear.

I'd go for the luxury model, camel.

[Visionz]

Horse

Fast travel if needed and can carry stuff.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Related reading:

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=91493&start=0
http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=81645

I have seen an infographic put out by the US Army that showed the logistics required to support different types of transport. For instance:

Soldier-Load carried:X-Food per day: X-Water Per day: X-Distance under load per day: X

It had everything from dogs to cargo helocoptewrs, if I remember correctly, including camels, llamas, donkeys, horses, and mules. I still can't find the graphic, but IIRC the donkey was the best balance of distance per day+load carried vs food/water required.

As with any piece of gear, if you don't know how to handle the animal in question and care for it, you're going to either kill it or yourself. The Marine Corps has a six-week long "ass packers" course based around care and use of combat donkeys.

TL;DR Pack animals are vehicles too. learn how to pack them, fuel them, care for them, and drive them.

[Blacksmith]

Related reading:

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=91493&start=0
http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=81645

I have seen an infographic put out by the US Army that showed the logistics required to support different types of transport. For instance:

Soldier-Load carried:X-Food per day: X-Water Per day: X-Distance under load per day: X

It had everything from dogs to cargo helocoptewrs, if I remember correctly, including camels, llamas, donkeys, horses, and mules. I still can't find the graphic, but IIRC the donkey was the best balance of distance per day+load carried vs food/water required.

As with any piece of gear, if you don't know how to handle the animal in question and care for it, you're going to either kill it or yourself. The Marine Corps has a six-week long "ass packers" course based around care and use of combat donkeys.

TL;DR Pack animals are vehicles too. learn how to pack them, fuel them, care for them, and drive them.

Close. Mules not donkeys. Mules are super efficient pack animals, that while they carry less percentage wise they use much less energy and require less rest. Donkeys are well down the list of useful animals but you need one to make a mule.

Llamas can pack stuff too but not nearly as much or as efficiently. A horse (type dependent) can carry about 30% of it's body weight, a mule 20% a llama 10%.

[bonanacrom]

Yak.

[ineffableone]

My preference would be goats. Goats can be used as pack animals, you can milk them, use their fur, eat them, and they are easy to feed as they will eat a lot of wild foods. I used goats while working trail maintenance and was quite impressed with their trail abilities, intelligence, and ease of care. You can take goats on trails you can't take mules or horses. Hell goats can actually take trails we can't. LOL

A mule is my second favorite, then horse, and finally alpaca/llama.

My ultimate flock of Bug Out Animals would be a couple mules, and a string of good pack goats. The mules for me to ride, and carry a few heavier items, and the goats to carry the rest. Sadly though I don't currently have this great combo.

[MacAttack]

Horse

Fast travel if needed and can carry stuff.

I second that one. Its just easier.
A camel would be cool, especially out in the south west US. But in the coming years will I be able find a way to breed more?
A horse is just simpler. It can always pull a cart or wagon with a little extra training. And a travios can be used every day as needed.

[ineffableone]

Why mules make great BOVs
Extreme Mules

[bigmattdaddywack]

I'd go tauntaun.

[Blacksmith]

I'd go tauntaun.

With the advantage being they can keep you from freezing to death in an emergency.

Horse

Fast travel if needed and can carry stuff.

The down side of horses compared to other pack animals are significant. They require more food, equipment, rest, training etc. They are harder to handle and require the rider to be physically fit and well trained in riding and handling. Mules are a bit more forgiving and easier to handle. Finding one these days is bit of a challenge.

[MacAttack]

I just have to ask though.

How do mules reproduce?

Horse, mule or donkey they all taste the same to me when the time comes.

[ineffableone]

I just have to ask though.

How do mules reproduce?

Horse, mule or donkey they all taste the same to me when the time comes.

That is the one major draw back of mules, they are sterile usually (there are cases of nonsterile mare mule). It takes a horse and donkey to make a mule or a hinny, depending on who is the father and who is the mother.

However a mule has a lot of advantages over both horse and donkey. This is why people continue to breed mules rather than just staying with horse or donkey. One of the biggest advantages is higher intelligence, and a higher developed sense of self preservation. This is where donkeys and mules get the reputation for being stubborn, not wanting to go into potential danger that a human is blindly trying to lead them into.

While long term you would eventually have to find another animal, or breed a new mule. A mule will out live most horses, and be able to work longer in that lifespan than a horse.

A lifespan of 30 to 50 years is common for a donkey. Horses average 25 to 30 years. Thanks to hybrid vigor, mules and hinnies may live 30 to 40 years (and sometimes up to 50), with a comparably longer working life than that of a horse.

[ineffableone]

The down side of horses compared to other pack animals are significant. They require more food, equipment, rest, training etc. They are harder to handle and require the rider to be physically fit and well trained in riding and handling. Mules are a bit more forgiving and easier to handle. Finding one these days is bit of a challenge.

A mule can actually be more challenging for beginners than a horse in some ways. Mules are smarter, and will take advantage of a persons newness. Horses do the same, but mules will do it to a larger degree. Horses do scare easier than a mule though and can be intimidated into do as a rider wants (not how I treat horses, but it is the common technique) while a mule will be more stubborn and resist more to such strong arm tactics often training the inexperienced rider more than the rider training them.

Now for two well trained animals mule and horse given to an inexperienced rider, the mule would be much easier usually. The horse would need much more direction and would get spooked form not getting it, while a mule is often used to being allowed some freedom (it is what they are good at) and so would not be overly spooked by inexperienced hands.

[Blacksmith]

The down side of horses compared to other pack animals are significant. They require more food, equipment, rest, training etc. They are harder to handle and require the rider to be physically fit and well trained in riding and handling. Mules are a bit more forgiving and easier to handle. Finding one these days is bit of a challenge.

A mule can actually be more challenging for beginners than a horse in some ways. Mules are smarter, and will take advantage of a persons newness. Horses do the same, but mules will do it to a larger degree. Horses do scare easier than a mule though and can be intimidated into do as a rider wants (not how I treat horses, but it is the common technique) while a mule will be more stubborn and resist more to such strong arm tactics often training the inexperienced rider more than the rider training them.

Now for two well trained animals mule and horse given to an inexperienced rider, the mule would be much easier usually. The horse would need much more direction and would get spooked form not getting it, while a mule is often used to being allowed some freedom (it is what they are good at) and so would not be overly spooked by inexperienced hands.

That is what I was getting at although you stated it better than me. Just like everything else we do anyone who plans on handling large animals in an emergency needs to know how to do so now. Trying to wait until the time comes to try to learn how to handle a large animal will be disastrous, possibly deadly.

[J-Bean Sammitch]

My preference would be goats. Goats can be used as pack animals, you can milk them, use their fur, eat them, and they are easy to feed as they will eat a lot of wild foods. I used goats while working trail maintenance and was quite impressed with their trail abilities, intelligence, and ease of care. You can take goats on trails you can't take mules or horses. Hell goats can actually take trails we can't. LOL

Definately a multi-use SHTF animal, but how much would they be able to reasonably carry? Or were you thinking multiple goats? Just watch out for them using the buddy system and feeding each other the loads on their back! This would, of course, require you to seek alternative food preps....

[ineffableone]

My preference would be goats. Goats can be used as pack animals, you can milk them, use their fur, eat them, and they are easy to feed as they will eat a lot of wild foods. I used goats while working trail maintenance and was quite impressed with their trail abilities, intelligence, and ease of care. You can take goats on trails you can't take mules or horses. Hell goats can actually take trails we can't. LOL

Definately a multi-use SHTF animal, but how much would they be able to reasonably carry? Or were you thinking multiple goats? Just watch out for them using the buddy system and feeding each other the loads on their back! This would, of course, require you to seek alternative food preps....

Goats carry aprox 25% to 35% their body weight, so how much depends on what size goats you have. Definitely multi goats I would want at least 3-4 but more likely 8-10 goats so I would have plenty incase I do need to eat some. I am well aware of how to prevent them from snacking out of the packs, I have used pack goats before. But worst case senerios if they did get into one of the packs. You should be there to stop them pretty quickly. If not, then the guilty goat becomes your food prep. Remember you can eat your goats. Having multiple goats also means while you can eat one, you still have the others to keep acting as pack animals. If you eat your horse/mule/llama you usually don't have a train of a bunch more of them, so you lost a lot of carry capacity. With goats you spread the load out over a bunch of goats which means loosing one or two does not make you have to leave behind too much gear. Of course also as you eat your own food out of the pack goats packs, your lightening the loads too. You could end up with some empty packs before you get to even considering needing to eat a goat.

A good place to learn more about pack goats is http://www.highuintapackgoats.com/ check their FAQ page and Tips for some great info, along with other pages for more info on different breeds etc.

[MacAttack]

I'm just experienced enough with horses that if they are willing and patient, then I stand a good chance of getting them saddled and ready to go.

I hope to have enough grain around to get the animal switched over to an all grass diet before it dies on me.

[Blacksmith]

I'm just experienced enough with horses that if they are willing and patient, then I stand a good chance of getting them saddled and ready to go.

I hope to have enough grain around to get the animal switched over to an all grass diet before it dies on me.

If you are a light rider you might go ahead and do that now. You can supplement based upon your riding habits. In the winter you will likely want to provide grain regardless but in the summer time with good pastures and light riding you can get away with a lot.