Ultralight - A list of tips on lightening your load

[jamoni]

Thanks Woods Walker, good tips!

Here's a really ultralight setup I've stumbled across.

Gatewood Cape

The Cape has a following but the bug liner/bivy, not so much. I have slept under my poncho before and this is a good way to save weight. But there are problems with using your rain gear for a shelter. Those occur to someone when they need to break or setup camp in the rain. Still I have done it and didn’t die.

When I used the Alpha Tent setup, I could just pick up the whole thing and carry it around like an umbrella. It wasn't a great shelter, but that one feature really kicked ass.

[pahwraith]

The truly ironic thing is he is a good 20-30lbs overweight

This has crossed my mind I see the middle age sheguys on their carbon fiber bikes, I always think "Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and healthier to lose some of that beer belly?"
It becomes about bragging rights at some point. In the prepper community I think it swings the other way, it's more like "how much can I carry! Look how manly I am."

Anyway, what I respect the UL community is how they've mastered the art of cheap DIY dehydrated meals and using simple alcohol stoves. Not all of them take it to the extreme of powdered meal. Just look at this recipe http://www.trailcooking.com/recipes/tun ... cous-salad
No cooking required, all the ingredients could last in your pack for a year or two, easy and it just sounds like tasty eats. It's pretty genius.

Some very good tips in this thread. It's all about balance, for example, I have a bad back, so a quality sleeping pad is important. I don't care how much it weighs, if I can't get a reasonably good night's sleep, I'm toast. And I have to ask, what is a sheguy? I've heard of shims (she/hims)....those are the tranny hookers that tape back their male bits and have fake bolt-ons. I don't see the connection to cycling.

Whoops, It was a typo. I was using the laptop that annoyingly shifts the cursor when my palms graze the trackpad. It's a pretty shitty design, it's almost as annoying as the autocorrect on my phone.

[derf26]

I just thought about something, and I guess this is a question for Woods Walker since I've seen lots of pictures with your tipi/stove setup.

When the Gatewood cape is set up, there's the hood at the top of the poncho that basically has a hole through it, and I wonder... could it be used in conjunction with a stove during cold winters?

Whoops, It was a typo. I was using the laptop that annoyingly shifts the cursor when my palms graze the trackpad. It's a pretty shitty design, it's almost as annoying as the autocorrect on my phone.

This is kind of off-topic, but there's probably software out there that can detect palm movements (or simply typing) and temporarily disable the trackpad. Some newer laptops have this functionality built in. Many laptops also have a button that disables the trackpad altogether.

[Flying Lead]

I once took out over 2 lbs of stuff I "might" need but never used. Have not missed any of it.
People kill me with the big knives or several knives. The Viking idea of a knife is what I use, a four inch fairly sturdy blade. Never saw anything I could not do with it as far as splitting wood and such.
Redundancy thing is overdone. A single pistol will do, and a basic .22 rifle is fine for bugging out. You can always stash a .223 or larger rifle for SHTF stuff.
The big thing that strikes me as odd is the overwhelming need for a heavy pack. I have hauled a Granite Gear bag all over creation. It shows no wear and comes in at a 2 lbs and easily hauls almost 30 lbs if need be. Normal pack weight is 14 lbs summer and 18 winter. That counts 1.5 liters of water and 3 days food.

[derf26]

I once took out over 2 lbs of stuff I "might" need but never used. Have not missed any of it.
People kill me with the big knives or several knives. The Viking idea of a knife is what I use, a four inch fairly sturdy blade. Never saw anything I could not do with it as far as splitting wood and such.
Redundancy thing is overdone. A single pistol will do, and a basic .22 rifle is fine for bugging out. You can always stash a .223 or larger rifle for SHTF stuff.
The big thing that strikes me as odd is the overwhelming need for a heavy pack. I have hauled a Granite Gear bag all over creation. It shows no wear and comes in at a 2 lbs and easily hauls almost 30 lbs if need be. Normal pack weight is 14 lbs summer and 18 winter. That counts 1.5 liters of water and 3 days food.

Hey, I (and others I'm sure) would love to see your setup. Have you posted it up anywhere by chance?

[ninja-elbow]

Redundancy thing is overdone. A single pistol will do, and a basic .22 rifle is fine for bugging out. You can always stash a .223 or larger rifle for SHTF stuff.
The big thing that strikes me as odd is the overwhelming need for a heavy pack. I have hauled a Granite Gear bag all over creation. It shows no wear and comes in at a 2 lbs and easily hauls almost 30 lbs if need be. Normal pack weight is 14 lbs summer and 18 winter. That counts 1.5 liters of water and 3 days food.

Regarding this, and I have brought it up a few times over the years, many misinterpret 1 is none... philosophy as "buy 2 of them...". I tend to think of it in concepts:
Self defense: pistol, empty hand stuff, running away, not getting into a fight = 4 different ways to defend myself.
-as opposed to-
Self Defense: pistol, another pistol (one is none right?), big f-in knife, another big f-in knife = 4 things to track, carry, and care for.

[Jeriah]

I recently went on the third backpacking trip of my life. The first was when I was about 12 and my grandmother took us up into the Sierras to Chocolate Lake; she did all the organizing but I did carry my own gear. I didn't really pack or plan, though, and don't remember anything about gear other than that the pack itself was an old school backpack w/ external aluminum frame. Weight didn't seem bad, but it was a long time ago.

The last two trips were both in Yosemite, both using my Kifaru Zulu as my pack. The first time we hiked up from the valley via the Mist Trail, camped at Little Yosemite, and the next morning, climbed the cables up Half Dome, back down, broke camp, and descended into the valley also via the Mist Trail. The more recent time we were going to do that but slacked on getting our permit so we couldn't get one for leaving the valley, had to get one to leave from Glacier Point. This actually proved a blessing because we got to do a new trail, and a more fun one at least for me. We left Glacier Point, hiked down to Illouette (sp?) Falls, then along the Panorama Trail to Nevada Falls and then up into Little Yosemite Valley. Camped there, then down the Mist Trail the next day.

Both of these recent hikes were awesome, but in both cases I arrived badly fatigued, and my pack weight was the reason why. The first time was worse, I lightened my load significantly by the second time, but it was still too heavy. One mistake was overconfidence, wanting to be "manly", and so volunteering to carry the whole tent for Steph and I, rather than splitting the load. Pride is a motherfucker. The other reason is bringing too much shit. The first time I brought way too much "just in case" gear, extra nylon pockets, etc. The more recent time I got rid of this stuff, lightening my load significantly. I weighed my pack after we got back, and had a base weight (no food, water, or consumables) of 24lbs. Not too bad! But, once you add 6lbs of water, plus some food, and me being out of shape and not used to altitude, it still sucked a bit. YES, I should train more, backpack more, get in better shape, and by doing so would be able to pack more weight. But also, I need to lighten up. Here are my thoughts.

First, do some research. After we got back, my friend and I went to the Pizza Deck at Curry Village, gorged ourselves on some well-earned pizza (I give myself total "fuck it" permission re: diet for the first meal after returning from a backpacking trip), and drank a couple of expensive, delicious, big-ass beers. Having quite the buzz on, we wandered into the gear store, and I picked up a book on ultralight backpacking. Since we'd just been talking about pack weights, it seemed relevant; I handed it to my friend and he (or rather, beer) bought it. We spent the next few days reading it to each other around camp.

The book was: http://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Backpa ... 0762763841

In this book, the author also recommends:
http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Mikes-Reall ... pd_sim_b_5
http://www.amazon.com/Lighten-Up-Comple ... pd_sim_b_4

I would buy these books before buying any new gear. I plan on doing so as soon as I get back from this trip. I've read the first one and it's given me enough to get a good start, but I'd like to own all three as I get more into backpacking.

Some general principles, not necessarily from these books:

Ultralight backpacking is not bugging out. UL backpacking, and backpacking in general, is based on certain principles that won't be true in a bugout, such as being able to hit resupply points every 5-10 days, having a warm bed waiting for you when you get home, and having an entire government infrastructure to come find you if you get lost. Also, nobody's shooting at you, there aren't zombies, and you get to choose the time and place of your trip. Recognizing these distinctions, though, you can still apply a lot of the lessons from UL backpacking to setting up your BOB. Example, some extreme UL backpackers get a base weight as low as 5-10lbs. If you're playing Red Dawn, you can throw this 5-10lb sustainment load in a buttpack on your fighting rig, rather than humping a full ruck. This is just one example.

Start with the big stuff. There is no point in sawing the handle off your toothbrush, squeezing toothpaste into little dried out dots, etc., and then shoving it all in a 1000D Cordura Kifaru pack that weighs 8-12lbs empty. Look at your load in terms of systems that allow you do achieve a necessary goal, look at the weight of each system, and then figure out how to lighten each system while still meeting your same goals. The big ones tend to be the Pack System, Shelter System, Sleep System, and the Food and Water System. The heaviest items tend to be the pack itself, the tent/hammock/tarp setup, and the sleeping bag or quilt. There is some debate over whether you should buy the pack first, or last: do you buy a small UL pack, then force yourself to get rid of stuff til everything fits? Or do you buy all your other UL gear first, until you know exactly how small of a pack you can get away with, and then buy one? In my opinion this depends on the next point:

Use what you have. Get out there with what you've got, even if your setup isn't perfect. Remember, the point is to have a good time backpacking, or to set up an emergency kit you've practiced with, NOT obsessing over gear for its own sake. Also, using gear is the best way to figure out what you need to change, and what works. Don't be this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZGKpNbV ... _embedded#!

[ninja-elbow]

Ultralight backpacking is not bugging out. UL backpacking, and backpacking in general, is based on certain principles that won't be true in a bugout, such as being able to hit resupply points every 5-10 days, having a warm bed waiting for you when you get home, and having an entire government infrastructure to come find you if you get lost. Also, nobody's shooting at you, there aren't zombies, and you get to choose the time and place of your trip. Recognizing these distinctions, though, you can still apply a lot of the lessons from UL backpacking to setting up your BOB. Example, some extreme UL backpackers get a base weight as low as 5-10lbs. If you're playing Red Dawn, you can throw this 5-10lb sustainment load in a buttpack on your fighting rig, rather than humping a full ruck. This is just one example.

'Tis why I keep my bug out gear seperate from my backpacking gear. Sure, if i have time while I am evacuating, I will throw both my backpacking pack and my BOB into the back of my truck with various other things... if my backpacking pack is even packed. If my house is on fire and I know the disposition of kid, woman, cats ... then I throw out the BOB first. Fuck my backpacking gear (and my AK, and my laptop, and my ...); Insurance will replace it.

As I have stated 1 million times here and everywhere else - backpacking in the woods is not my disaster plan. I will survive it if it happens (as my plan is to survive such things) but it is not my plan.

Use what you have. Get out there with what you've got, even if your setup isn't perfect. Remember, the point is to have a good time backpacking, or to set up an emergency kit you've practiced with, NOT obsessing over gear for its own sake. Also, using gear is the best way to figure out what you need to change, and what works. Don't be this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZGKpNbV ... _embedded#!

QFT. All the forum-izing in the world will do you no good - and we do appreciate the traffic - if you don't get out there. It's summer in the Northern Hemisphere, get out there. Just take a walk and see if you can handle the woods with a little daypack and your shoes. Have no shame in your gear. Vikings have proverbs that say to not have shame in your stuff if it is yours and you use it. My old fat ass wanted a comfy airmatress so I got one, a frikkin nice $200 one. Don't need it but it is nice (after 30+ years of being out side and sleeping int it). I advise everyone else to get one too if they want a nice airmatress. Don't matter in the end though - I don't need that damn thing.

[Woods Walker]

I just thought about something, and I guess this is a question for Woods Walker since I've seen lots of pictures with your tipi/stove setup.

When the Gatewood cape is set up, there's the hood at the top of the poncho that basically has a hole through it, and I wonder... could it be used in conjunction with a stove during cold winters?

I think someone would melt their sleeping bag's shell etc on the stove given the small space. All it takes is a split second of contact. The most UL shelter and stove combo I own is around 6 lbs.

[derf26]

I think someone would melt their sleeping bag's shell etc on the stove given the small space. All it takes is a split second of contact. The most UL shelter and stove combo I own is around 6 lbs.

Thanks for clearing that up. 6 lbs isn't too heavy, especially considering that in serious snow some or all of that weight can be dragged on a sled.

As for the whole gear addiction discussion, I propose we establish a very simple mathematical rule for when to stop. Divide the price of an item by the weight it saves, e.g.

$200 rucksack / 2.5 kg in weight saved over a regular military rucksack = $ 0.08 or 8 cents per gram saved. (or $ 2.26 per ounce)
$400 quilt / 300g saved over a similar sleeping bag = $ 1.33 dollars per gram saved. (or $ 37.6 per ounce)

Then you simply make a list, prioritizing from top to bottom the cheapest in weight saving, going all the way down to the most expensive, and draw a line somewhere in the middle where you know it's just not worth the expense anymore. Not only do you know where to begin saving weight, but you've also got an objective way to measure whether you're going too far.

[omega_man]

Jeriah made some great points. My bug out gear is pretty much my backpacking gear (without the occasional comfort item), I've found that combining elements of UL with .mil stuff is the best compromise. Also, the more I get out, the more I dial in my gear. This is the most important part. Laying your gear out and taking pics is cool and all, but if you can't hump it or effectively use it--what's the point? I keep my weight around 30lbs (w/water and usually too much food), which allows me to be comfortable and have the ability to add 20lbs of battle-rattle if warranted, not to mention move from point A to point B without exhausting myself.

Side note; Omega_woman carries 30lbs as well. Spread loading gear is critical--if you know you're not going to bug out by yourself, why carry it all yourself? Do they make doggie chest-rigs for AR mags? Hmmm...

[Flying Lead]

Hey, I (and others I'm sure) would love to see your setup. Have you posted it up anywhere by chance?

Thanks for asking! My stuff is in the Winter Bugout thread. I need to lay everything out and take pics.
Looked up my MBO post on Page 5 about 1/3 way down.
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=88320&start=96
Granite gear nimbus meridian pack
Jetboil SOL
Swedish firesteel
Western Mountaineering Versalite 10 degree bag
First Need water filter
REI 1.75 self inflating sleeping mat
Go Lite shangri La 1 tent
Patagonia camp pants
2 Lbs food and snacks
Nalgene 1.5 liter bottle
Nalgene 96 oz plastic water bag
FAK
MSR mug w/lid
Titanium spork
Personal items, meds, toothbrush, etc
Knife, 4 inch fixed blade
Odd and end repair items, paracord-needle and thread-duct tape

My cook kit can be a lot lighter but I took my Jetboil. The WM bag is the heat! I have a 30 degree bag I have used to 25 degrees that weighs less than a pound. Gotta love down! The only thing I may change is the tent. Still flip flopping between two different UL 2 person tents.

[pahwraith]

Came across a sample Ultralight BOB on BushcraftUSA. It seemed pertinent to post it here.

[Woods Walker]

I think someone would melt their sleeping bag's shell etc on the stove given the small space. All it takes is a split second of contact. The most UL shelter and stove combo I own is around 6 lbs.

Thanks for clearing that up. 6 lbs isn't too heavy, especially considering that in serious snow some or all of that weight can be dragged on a sled.

As for the whole gear addiction discussion, I propose we establish a very simple mathematical rule for when to stop. Divide the price of an item by the weight it saves, e.g.

$200 rucksack / 2.5 kg in weight saved over a regular military rucksack = $ 0.08 or 8 cents per gram saved. (or $ 2.26 per ounce)
$400 quilt / 300g saved over a similar sleeping bag = $ 1.33 dollars per gram saved. (or $ 37.6 per ounce)

Then you simply make a list, prioritizing from top to bottom the cheapest in weight saving, going all the way down to the most expensive, and draw a line somewhere in the middle where you know it's just not worth the expense anymore. Not only do you know where to begin saving weight, but you've also got an objective way to measure whether you're going too far.

When considering the weight of a heated shelter don't forget the stove not only heats the tent but boils and cooks. You don't need to factor in the weight of an additional stove or fuel. Not so sure about that simple mathematical rule thing. Every environment has different challenges and opportunities. I just don’t see that offering the best possible options.