living in a camper

[hard2kill]

Well the time has come, our house is being foreclosed on and we are moving on. We knew it was coming so we have been making plans to change our living situation. We got ahold of a 25' camper that my boss was using as a hunting camp until about two years ago. He said we could have it if we just drive to SC and get it. Ok cool, we go and get it, get it back home and begin the restoration work. Its not pretty, its from the 70s so the god awful looking interior is only topped by the mouse shit and opossum nest in the kitchen drawers. There is some water damage to the floor that I am gonna fix soon and I have brand new carpet already so all that's getting replaced at no cost, just time. Needless to say we have been cleaning like crazy and working to get this in order. Anyway, the point is that we are pretty happy about it actually. We are downsizing A LOT of stuff and pretty much gonna be living a very simple life. We started a garden this year on the land we have and are getting chickens as soon as I can find the time to build a coop. I have two 55 gallon drums (one food grade and one not) that I am gonna use for water for the garden mainly but will be good to just have for obvious reasons and I plan to add more barrels later. I guess I'm saying that we are moving out to the country where I'm from and we want to lean more and more towards being self sufficient. So again I pose another question to the oh so wise ZS community, have any of you lived in a camper before and what are some more good self sufficient ideas that I can do pretty easily? We have a pretty solid plan as far as what we are gonna do but this is more for fun/interesting ideas I may not have thought of.

[TacAir]

I lived in a 19 ft camp trailer for just over a year. It had a 3/4 bath, but the shower was tiny and as you sat on the toilet, the sink was in your face...

Took out the bed, put in an elevated platform with 9 drawers under that, then the mattresses on top. New carpet was nice.
The end of the trailer, nearest the door, had a settee- two bench seats and a table top.

Pulled that out and put in a table that would fold flat to the wall and had a couple of folding chairs. Two nice 'dinner room' chairs to sit on while eating. The space to one side then was fitted for shelving to store more food. Had a full sized stove/oven, single tub sink, so washed in one pot and rinsed in the other. Easy and cheap to heat.

By myself and worked almost all day, so was plenty roomy. If I had to do it over, I would give up a bit of bedroom space for a bigger shower....

Best of luck, if you have your own land, you can put up a shed for extra storage or even a second 'bedroom'.

You can forget any notion of privacy tho.

[hard2kill]

The small storage shed is pretty high on the list. Just have to find one big enough/cheap enough to hold a good food storage and have enough room keep our other crap we dont want to get rid of. As far as privacy, I was wondering about that. Thick curtains are the best we can do I guess.

[KnightoftheRoc]

My parents bought a used fifth wheel camper when my dad retired. The plan was to go to Florida- didn't work out so well financially. They moved to NC, spent a few years there, then came back to NY so family was closer. All in all, 15 YEARS spent in that thing. I never could have handled it, even with just two people in it, and usually at opposite ends of the camper. Even solo, I'd be claustrophobic in one. Anyway, it can be done, at least with two people. You didn't mention how many were going to be in it, but if it's more than two, make some sort of provisions for getting people out of the camper and doing something, or it could get ugly.

2" styrofoam around the bottom to cut out wind and cold will go a long way on cutting down on your heating bill, without becoming a home for pests, like hay bales can do.

How are you planning on handling the septic needs? The black tank is only good for just so long- are you going to be able to connect to a septic system via the drain connection for the black tank? Water and electric are easy to hook up, but the septic stuff can get pricey fast if you have to start from scratch.

Pay close attention to the condition of the caulking outside- roof seams and around windows and skylights in particular. When my parents moved out of the trailer, about 3 months later, they asked me to stop by and pick something up from inside it- the damage done by rain in that short time was amazing- it wasn't fit for a dog to live in, let alone people. I was SO glad they were out of it- the only thing that could improve that thing at that point was a gallon of gas and a match. And that was from just 3 months without attention paid to maintenance.

[hard2kill]

Its gonna be just me and the wife, and usually just her as I drive a truck and am used to very small spaces anyway. We actually put it just off of the septic tank that my parents house is connected to so we got lucky on that aspect. Unfortunately, you hit the nail on the head with the caulking. I'm gonna go and redo every bit of it before i fix the floors. I'm still looking at options for the underpinning so thanks for that tip.

[coyotebc]

You ay want to think about building a wood roof a foot or two higher then your camper, and park the camper underneath it.

[KnightoftheRoc]

You ay want to think about building a wood roof a foot or two higher then your camper, and park the camper underneath it.

This "carport" idea is really good, if you can get away with it. The roofs on campers are notoriously leaky and require constant maintenance- I worked at an RV dealership for a while, and I learned a LOT I had no idea about regarding them. There's just so much you can expect when you try to combine a stationary object like a house, and a mobile object like a car.

My dad was a trucker, too, which was one reason he went with a fifth wheel camper. He was used to the cramped space, but he sort of forced my mom into it, which I resented quite a bit for a long time.

[JesterODX]

Hard2kill, I hate to hear of your situation. But glad you have a plan and it sounds like your gonna be alright.

Longest I ever did time in the old motor home my mom and step dad had was four months. Step dad was an industrial electrician and followed work from state to state. But from a kids view, I didnt mind it. I enjoyed being out side all the time. I guess at ten years old, you can always find something to do out side.

One good thing is that living some where small and cramped makes you want to be outside. And being outside is good.

[ZombieGranny]

We lived in a small trailer for years down South.
We made a stucco-covered block building the length and width of the trailer with a roof that extended over the top, so it looked rather like a double wide. Cement slab floor, lots of insulation filling the gap between trailer and wall, we also put block stacks under the trailer so it didn't move very much.

[huntingohio]

This may not apply but we had a alluminum boat theat leaked at every seam even after recaulking. I got a wild hair one day and bedlinered it inside and out, dost leak at all anymore.
I have heard of some people doing this to camper roofs the recaulking, especailly when left at a hunting camp.

[400 Grains]

God Bless you, and I hope things get better for you.

[TCC]

My Dad's friend lives in a 5th wheel camper, and is very into prepping. He built a wooden porch on the front side and screened it in. After he put the screen up, he put up plastic sheeting (kinda like a painting drop cloth but not see through) on the inside, and then put a wood heater in the center of the porch, with the chimney pipe going through the roof of the porch. During the winter, he never turns the heat on. He just opens the front door and fires up the wood heater. Cuts down a lot on electricity costs, and I'm sure it could be more efficient with a better form of insulation. Since he is so into prepping and lives in a camper, I'll ask him for some tips for you.

[hard2kill]

My Dad's friend lives in a 5th wheel camper, and is very into prepping. He built a wooden porch on the front side and screened it in. After he put the screen up, he put up plastic sheeting (kinda like a painting drop cloth but not see through) on the inside, and then put a wood heater in the center of the porch, with the chimney pipe going through the roof of the porch. During the winter, he never turns the heat on. He just opens the front door and fires up the wood heater. Cuts down a lot on electricity costs, and I'm sure it could be more efficient with a better form of insulation. Since he is so into prepping and lives in a camper, I'll ask him for some tips for you.

That would be great, thanks! I look forward to hearing what you have to say. Also thanks for the well wishes from everyone, we are actually seeing this as a huge relief though. I actually really like the roof idea and the screened in porch since I was gonna build a good size porch anyway.

[TCC]

That would be great, thanks! I look forward to hearing what you have to say. Also thanks for the well wishes from everyone, we are actually seeing this as a huge relief though. I actually really like the roof idea and the screened in porch since I was gonna build a good size porch anyway.

I actually went to the guy's house for a cookout today and talked a little about his wood heater. He found it on Craigslist for $100, so with you already planning on building a porch, for a little bit of an extra investment it could cut the electricity bill down quite a bit. What are you plans in case of a storm? He has a SafeShed. If you haven't heard of them, they are pretty cool.

[ptAltered]

I think you're in a very good position. Once you get your camper set up on that land you mentioned try to create as much around it as possible. Use some tarps and cord to develop a tent city with separate areas for cooking, cleaning, splitting wood and whatever else. The less time you spend inside your camper the less claustrophobic it will feel.

Use this time of low bills to really get into the realities of prepping; having a sustainable garden with livestock, preparing and storing foods, and using limited funds for maximum benefit. If I may suggest "Extreme Simplicity" by Christopher Nyerges as a good primer on the mentality of urban and small land homesteading. Make a point of using all available land to decrease your dependence on modern society.

[KnightoftheRoc]

Insulation is of paramount importance, and where campers/RV's all come up short. The wall construction only allows for 1-1/2" of insulation, typically closer to 1". If you consider a 4" wooden framed wall to have R13 insulation, considered to be a bare minimum, and no longer acceptable for new construction in many places, this leave a camper wall with about an R4 rating. In other words, equivalent to what an air duct would be enclosed with in an already heated space (most of which is to prevent condensation in AC uses.) Add to that an exterior of metal, which does jack to slow down the conduction of heat or cold, and these things just BLEED heat out and away.

Anything you can do to improve this insulation will be a good thing, even if it means encasing the whole thing in hay bales.

Another weak point is the "furnace". I use quotes, because calling it one is a courtesy to it, since it barely qualifies as one. As an HVAC guy, a generally handy person, and as an RV tech, I had with my parent's unit the opportunity to figure out just how bad they suck, and what could be done to alleviate the suckage. A big fail point was the dinky 12 Volt motor used- it powers both the combustion air flow and the house airflow. The furnace is designed to come one once in a while, to take off the chill of a summer night, not to heat a home 24/7 in the depths of a winter freeze. for what it is, it's OK, but the system simply isnt designed for non-stop use, and it fails. A lot. I did some measuring, made a blank cover with a gasket material (for the exterior siding- it's irregular) and then cut a hole in the side of the trailer and removed the entire furnace. I did this in the summer, so it was no hardship on them. Taking it home, I rebuilt the entire thing, re-using only the firebox and burner/valve assembly.

I re-piped the gas valve so I could use the valve I installed at removal time with a coupling, so the unit could go in and out easy, replaced the 12v motor with a 110v motor and a relay to power it, and installed a 110v cord to provide the AC power. I extended the exhaust pipe so it could stop blowing clouds of steam up onto the kitchen widow, where it would condense and freeze. I mounted it all onto a metal tray, so it could just slide into the sheetmetal box I made for it (which the duct work connected to), and could all be done STANDING from outside, instead of lying cramped up on the kitchen floor.

This ran for years without problems. As opposed to at least two or three "service calls" out to my parent's to coax the old piece of crap into cooperating a while longer. I'd do one service each year, at the end of summer, to oil the motor bearings, change the air filter, etc- just normal maintenance. I got about 5 years out of the blower motors before needing to replace them. I found the replacements through Graingers, based on the mounting dimensions and shaft size (to match the squirrel cages). The relay can be found at Radio Shack, as can the socket it goes in, and the rest of the parts can be found in most any hardware store. I rebuilt that furnace into something useful for about $100, if I recall. Keep in mind that this was years ago, I had access to a sheet metal shop from my job, and I had the metal sitting around as scraps, so there may be additional costs for someone wanting to duplicate this.

I'd offer pics of what I did, but the furnace and camper are both thankfully gone, so I don't have access to them.
If you know heating systems, this is really the same, just on a smaller scale, and with a 12vdc control system, instead of 24vac. 99% of the furnaces in these units are pretty much the same construction, which makes parts easy to find, with the major differences being in BTU outputs.

[Tater Raider]

Have you considered parking the RV in a barn to shelter it from the elements?

[hard2kill]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I started back to work this week so I've been a little busy. Anyway, the heater really has me thinking about other options now. Insulation is gonna be a pain in the ass I think. I just have to figure out a practical way to insulate a camper :/ as far as an enclosure, I am going to build a roof over top soon to better channel water to my barrels and in time possibly enclose it. At the very least ill build a storage building or "guest room" if you will lol

[KnightoftheRoc]

Even if all you do with it is build a wooden frame around it, and cover that with plywood, it will be a huge improvement. If you can manage it, pour a slab for this first, then park the camper on it (with just enough space to walk around the camper, and include your water, electric, and septic connections within the slab dimensions) then build the frame, with siding and roof. You now have a "garage", not a living space, with maintenance connections so you can "work on the camper's systems". A garage is often not considered the same way for taxes and permits as a living space would be, like a new home, or an addition. If all you manage to do is keep the snow off the roof, and the wind from blasting directly on it, you'll see a big difference in comfort level and heating costs.

I know several people who store a full sized class A motor home in a barn for similar reasons, which gives them a ready-made "guest house" if they have company for a while. Sunlight is the biggest enemy of the roofing compounds the manufacturers use (ironic, huh?), so you'll have already cut your work in half just taking care of the camper. Try to make your shingled roof a peaked roof, so you have room to get on top of the camper, and if there's an AC unit, it can run unimpeded by restricted air flow.

[TCC]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I started back to work this week so I've been a little busy. Anyway, the heater really has me thinking about other options now. Insulation is gonna be a pain in the ass I think. I just have to figure out a practical way to insulate a camper :/ as far as an enclosure, I am going to build a roof over top soon to better channel water to my barrels and in time possibly enclose it. At the very least ill build a storage building or "guest room" if you will lol

The guy I told you about doesn't have any special insulation put up on his. Just whatever insulation campers come with, and a dark plastic sheet put up on the inside of his screened in porch.

[ptAltered]

You ay want to think about building a wood roof a foot or two higher then your camper, and park the camper underneath it.

This "carport" idea is really good, if you can get away with it. The roofs on campers are notoriously leaky and require constant maintenance- I worked at an RV dealership for a while, and I learned a LOT I had no idea about regarding them. There's just so much you can expect when you try to combine a stationary object like a house, and a mobile object like a car.

My dad was a trucker, too, which was one reason he went with a fifth wheel camper. He was used to the cramped space, but he sort of forced my mom into it, which I resented quite a bit for a long time.

Any recommendations on waterproofing the roof's on a newer camper before they become damaged?

[KnightoftheRoc]

You ay want to think about building a wood roof a foot or two higher then your camper, and park the camper underneath it.

This "carport" idea is really good, if you can get away with it. The roofs on campers are notoriously leaky and require constant maintenance- I worked at an RV dealership for a while, and I learned a LOT I had no idea about regarding them. There's just so much you can expect when you try to combine a stationary object like a house, and a mobile object like a car.

My dad was a trucker, too, which was one reason he went with a fifth wheel camper. He was used to the cramped space, but he sort of forced my mom into it, which I resented quite a bit for a long time.

Any recommendations on waterproofing the roof's on a newer camper before they become damaged?

Depends on what the roof is made of. If it's all metal, you can probably get away a bit cheaper (than buying at an RV store) by using the silver roof coating made for tin house roofs. The rubber sheeting type will not "hold" the silver coat well, and it will flake off in sheets, so, not too useful there. For the rubber roofing, you pretty much have to go to the RV outfits, and buy the materials they use. The stuff we used came in caulking gun tubes, and was best used on a hot day, so it would flow well. cold, it tends to end up much thicker than needed, and you end up using more material, and spending more money.

Also, if you're going to just OWN anything "RV", get a good Robertson tip #2 screwdriver- 99% of the camper will be assembled with screws using this tip.

[Lycosa]

My wife and I live in a 25ft travel trailer and have for over a year now. It was a choice we made so that our son who has a new family will not need to worry so much about keeping his head above water.. We pay him rent to stay in his yard. Works for us, and it takes a bit of the load off him while he juggles work, going to college, and being a husband and a father.

Anyhow, we had the same problem with our roof leaking. We have a EPDM liner roof that was trashed by the time we hauled it back to my son's house. It's a pretty nice camper, but it only took a couple of rainstorms before we ended up with ceiling damage.

To fix the roof temporarily, we put a tarp over the roof and are building a new roof that'll be fastened with rafter ties. For the roofing material, Lowe's has some pretty nice 2'x8' galvanized sheeting for around $15 a sheet and it will not take so many sheets to cover it. It'll provide a leak proof roof with extra insulation and a vapor barrier that'll last forever. We just have to make sure the new roof stays under 13ft if we ever want to take it out of here.

The nice thing about a camper is that because of the size, you can remodel one with really nice materials and it still remains affordable. We're decking ours out with ceramic tile, upgrading the bathroom fixtures, and changing the layout so it's a little more 2 person friendly. For example, the back near the bathroom has bunkbeds that aren't exactly usable for just the 2 of us so we're changing that space into something we can use. Right now, we use them as shelves, but my wife wants to build a computer desk back there. If you get creative, there's a lot you can do.

Suprisingly, the space factor doesn't phase my wife which I thought it would. We're loving it and the things we worried about, like the two of us being cramped together and getting on eachother's nerves hasn't happened.

I always wanted to build a house that had some of those self-sufficient options in it and now we have a small home to make it a reality. Since our home is already 12vdc or 120vac, we only have to hook up modest solar panels and we'll be able to power up the house completely. Things like our water heater works on an as-needed switch and since it's only 6 gallons, we only turn it on when we need it so we really have a lot of energy savings in our little home. Most of the appliances are gas or electric as well so we have lots of options. We yanked the rooftop AC off it since it wasn't working when we bought it and installed a small window A/C unit and it's enough to freeze us out of here if we ever turned it up. So we're both happy that we've reduced our carbon footprint. At the same time, we're hardly roughing it since we have HD cable with a DVR, high speed wireless internet, computers, and a nice HD tv.. albeit, only a 21" screen.

The only difference in our lives, besides the kids growing up and moving out, is that we are more careful on what we purchase now. We aren't just collecting things just because we can and now we find ourselves doing things outside the house more often than we used to. With all the money we save by living here, we go out to eat more often than we used to. We go to the movies whenever we feel like it. We take trips. All in all, it's been a pretty great decision all around. In my case, what made this work was making sure I continue to make this place just the way my wife wants it. She affectionately calls it the 'mini-mansion' and if you are able to both be happy despite the size, then you've pretty much won half the battle in life. No more big mortgage payments to worry about. It's a state of mind I suppose that you have to get used to, but it's definitely doable.

[hard2kill]

Ok as an update, the floor turned out to be rotted through to the insulation in some places so we put new plywood down in the entire thing. the plumbing works besides a couple very minor leaks that will be fixed soon. The foundation and leveling of the camper is done, took the furnace out and have decided to use an electric space heater for heating to save on propane. I am going to use the wood stove on the enclosed porch for backup heating, I really like that idea. Patched the roof, and am still gonna build the roof over it but that can be done after we move in. Oh and also, the AC still works, ill be damned. Still got a decent bit left to do to it but our little homestead project is coming along nicely. We have already started to use the land around as well, my wifes garden is doing very well and she will be doing a lot of canning when the time comes, compost bin and chicken coop are built as well. All in all, we may have put one too many irons in the fire already but significant progress is being made. Thanks for the ideas guys, if you have more then please keep them coming. They have all been very helpful.