AED (automated external defibrillator)

[bearfish]

I just did my health care provider CPR cert. for my nursing classes (2010 guidelines). Anyway they always cover using an AED. Anyone here planning on having one for bugging in or a BOV?

[Blacksmith]

I started a thread on this last year. Without good access to follow on care must everyone figured the AED would not be very useful. I was kind of inclined to agree.

[bearfish]

Thanks

Sorry I didn't see it.

Guess I didn't search well enough.

[crypto]

Agreed. Unlike in movies, one doesnt simply sit up after receiving CPR and say "whoa that was fucked up, wasn't it?"


Anyone who successfully gets shocked back to life with an AED will still be in the process of dying, because the problem that killed them is still happening. Without access to next-level care immediately, they're just gonna die again.

[DocZ]

Carrying an AED around would be very bulky and if it runs out of batteries when you really need it then its useless.

[GP11]

I could really only see buying an AED if you've covered pretty much every other area imaginable for your preps and have a couple thousand extra laying around.

Not something you are likely to use in your day-to-day life and, as others have mentioned, getting a pulse back is really only the beginning of care. If you are in nursing school, I'd encourage you to take an ACLS course, which covers more of the post-resuscitation care. It's not really something that's feasible in a long-term SHTF scenario though.

[croaker260]

Agreed. Unlike in movies, one doesnt simply sit up after receiving CPR and say "whoa that was fucked up, wasn't it?"


Anyone who successfully gets shocked back to life with an AED will still be in the process of dying, because the problem that killed them is still happening. Without access to next-level care immediately, they're just gonna die again.

Well, it has happened. I have seen it happen. But only in "witnessed" arrest where I was right on top of the patient when they arrested. That is pretty uncommon.

The advice on ACLS is useful, but far from complete. ACLS has degenerated to a merit badge course. Useful refresher only if you already have the base knowledge, but they dont teach that base knowledge in nursing school anymore. They expect you to get it in your CCRN/CEN courses.

[PotatoMuncher]

If you can find one for a reasonable price, sure. But for SHTF situations? It ain't worth it.

[crypto]

Well, it has happened. I have seen it happen. But only in "witnessed" arrest where I was right on top of the patient when they arrested. That is pretty uncommon.

may I ask what the underlying pathology was that caused them to code in the first place?

[JIM]

AED's are lifesavers and you would be wise to have one in your house / community. And, as said, you can get them for cheap on ebay. Do keep in mind they require regular pad and battery replacement.

But for the paw, no.

[Slugg]

Short answer: No AED for SHTF scenario.

Long answer: I have a kit for both SHTF and just a car wreck. Now there is no AED in mine, but I do carry medical supplies that I wouldn't use if I thought they weren't seeing the ED anytime soon. But honestly, if you had someone who was "going down" in SHTF scenario, you would probably be better off with just some kind of lower cost telemetry monitor. At least then you could use it for more than what the AED does. You can do a lot more for a cardiac condition if you knew it was coming and hopefully prevent that need for an AED. Look into those portable ones the hospitals make people wear out. They have charging stations and some last up to a week. Your only problem would be running out of leads.

[medic photog]

Agreed. Unlike in movies, one doesnt simply sit up after receiving CPR and say "whoa that was fucked up, wasn't it?"


Anyone who successfully gets shocked back to life with an AED will still be in the process of dying, because the problem that killed them is still happening. Without access to next-level care immediately, they're just gonna die again.

Well, it has happened. I have seen it happen. But only in "witnessed" arrest where I was right on top of the patient when they arrested. That is pretty uncommon.

The advice on ACLS is useful, but far from complete. ACLS has degenerated to a merit badge course. Useful refresher only if you already have the base knowledge, but they dont teach that base knowledge in nursing school anymore. They expect you to get it in your CCRN/CEN courses.

Yeah, ACLS isn't what it used to be. This years major topic will probably be airway management again with the emphasis on discrediting King and Combitubes to a point. Seems lots of "new data" has emerged showing they have a poor benefit on cerebrovascular flow in pigs. It may sound hard and crass, but it seems every time the committees get together they have new data that supports negative findings on whatever they said was good the last two times they met. I've been a paramedic now going on 37 years and I can count on my hands the cardiac arrest saves I've had that walked out of the hospital. AEDs are nice, but unless you have access to more definitive care, and that means even more that your local 911 ALS squad and possibly more than your local non cardiac cath lab hospital, your not going to see much of a survival rate. There are the odd exceptions to that though. The problem is you can't tell which patient is the one that will successfully be resuscitated out of hospital with no ill effects. In a PAW, I'd suggest you use your finances to be ready for things you can fix like hemmorage control , some airway matters and existing health issues.

[IANMCDEVITT]

wow, Medic Photog, sounds like one of my posts ...................except I would have bashed the establishment a lot more. ...............I must admit, I do have an SAED in the back of my jeep under some dirty gym clothes right now but it wasn't my doing. The Chief of the FD threw it in there a month ago along with a bunch of other gear and deputized me. It's not my first choice for the PAW.....hell, it may not even be my last choice.

[DrJack]

I don't have the data in front of me, so my numbers may be a little off but under ideal circumstances (CPR began immediately by witness of collapse, Defibrillation in under 5 minutes, definitive care in 15) the AHA states that pt survivability is about 30%. If any of these are delayed the mortality rate goes up exponentially.

The 2 exceptions to this are arrest due to electrocution and water submersion. Pediatrics bounce back much better and are also the most likely to be involved in shocks and near-drowning.

Bottom line is; an AED makes a decent anchor for small watercraft.