iPhone as a satellite communicator

[doitnstyle1]

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2 ... phone.html

Not bad as a back-up system. IMHO.

[TacAir]

Interesting---

From the article,

While you can't make phone calls, users can send and receive messages to and from cell phones, email contacts and other inReach users, anywhere in the world. And, if the mood strikes you as you reach the summit of a mountan, you can also post messages to Facebook and Twitter.
Chat anywhere

"DeLorme is now extending the unique inReach two-way SOS, personal communication, and tracking capabilities to a far broader universe of users worldwide," said Mike Heffron, DeLorme CEO. "This underscores our commitment to making affordable two-way satellite communication solutions available to as many people as possible."

The inReach devices start at $249 and can send out an SOS message to a monitoring station. GPS allows others to track your movements in real time.

The iPhone app provides expanded data capability, allowing you to send and receive email and text messages. Service plans start at $9.95 a month.

Though the company is not promoting this particular use, the app can probably be used when traveling outside the country, when sky high roaming charges normally kick in. Consumers may be able to bypass roaming charges by using inReach to send and receive data.

Related service/device/interface

SPOT uses several different way to interface with the basic device - A SPOT Personal Tracker uses the SPOT XML Interface while a Google Latitude device uses the Google Latitude Public Badge interface.

SPOT Connect is an app that lets your smartphone interface to your SPOT device much in the same way the InReach device operates.

Cool beans for folks that travel and hate to get nicked for high roaming charges in some (koff Mexico koff) countries.

[KJ4VOV]

Okay, so how are they doing this with just an app?? An app cannot change the hardware, and without changing the hardware an iPhone or Android is not going to reach a satellite. Physically impossible. It's like trying to signal the ISS with a candle from Times Square on New Years Eve. So how are they actually making this work?

[skelco]

Okay, so how are they doing this with just an app?? An app cannot change the hardware, and without changing the hardware an iPhone or Android is not going to reach a satellite. Physically impossible. It's like trying to signal the ISS with a candle from Times Square on New Years Eve. So how are they actually making this work?

the device does the communicating with the satellite, the phone provides the interface

[KJ4VOV]

Okay, so how are they doing this with just an app?? An app cannot change the hardware, and without changing the hardware an iPhone or Android is not going to reach a satellite. Physically impossible. It's like trying to signal the ISS with a candle from Times Square on New Years Eve. So how are they actually making this work?

the device does the communicating with the satellite, the phone provides the interface

DUH!

Okay, now I get it. Every time I read the article and they referred to "the device" I thought they were talking about the phone. "Now the company has introduced an app, allowing consumers with an iPhone, iPad or iPod touch to transform their devices into a global two-way satellite communicator for use outside traditional wireless coverage areas." To me, "devices" in that sentence refers to the phones, not the inReach, so as far as I could see they were saying that they had just an app, with no other hardware besides the phone, that was doing that. I think you can appreciate how confused I was by that.

[Chirpy]

Okay, so how are they doing this with just an app?? An app cannot change the hardware,

Hey, hey, hey now...that's how Apple (claimed to have) fixed the antenna on the iPhone 4, with a software update. Remember?

Yeah, sure they did. That's the ticket.

[doitnstyle1]

most of the phones will receive satellite information especially for GPS. It is only a matter of programming to change that into a communication device.

[KJ4VOV]

most of the phones will receive satellite information especially for GPS. It is only a matter of programming to change that into a communication device.

(We really need a "bang head on brick wall" smiley)

A receiver does not a transmitter make, no matter how you play with the software. And, even if it did, how were you planning to transmit back to the satellite? Using what power and what antenna? A 3/4 watt signal from a unity gain omni stands as much chance of being picked up by that satellite as that candle I mentioned earlier has of signaling the space station.

Think about it.

[AUA]

most of the phones will receive satellite information especially for GPS. It is only a matter of programming to change that into a communication device.

(We really need a "bang head on brick wall" smiley)

A receiver does not a transmitter make, no matter how you play with the software. And, even if it did, how were you planning to transmit back to the satellite? Using what power and what antenna? A 3/4 watt signal from a unity gain omni stands as much chance of being picked up by that satellite as that candle I mentioned earlier has of signaling the space station.

Think about it.

Cell phone = phone that communicates via radio waves to tower units ('cells') to send/receive calls and etc

Thus, cell phone = high-tech walkie-talkie type thing

that has secondary functions like GPS tracking through aforementioned cell network (tower pings phone through network and cross-references the ping time with GPS coordinates based on the known location of the tower, which are then plotted on a map and refreshed often enough to be considered in 'real-time').

This 'device' is separate from the phone and acts as the cell tower, letting the phone communicate with the satellite and vice versa in absence of an actual cell tower.


Just to get things straight here. Right?

[KJ4VOV]

most of the phones will receive satellite information especially for GPS. It is only a matter of programming to change that into a communication device.

(We really need a "bang head on brick wall" smiley)

A receiver does not a transmitter make, no matter how you play with the software. And, even if it did, how were you planning to transmit back to the satellite? Using what power and what antenna? A 3/4 watt signal from a unity gain omni stands as much chance of being picked up by that satellite as that candle I mentioned earlier has of signaling the space station.

Think about it.

Cell phone = phone that communicates via radio waves to tower units ('cells') to send/receive calls and etc

Thus, cell phone = high-tech walkie-talkie type thing

that has secondary functions like GPS tracking through aforementioned cell network (tower pings phone through network and cross-references the ping time with GPS coordinates based on the known location of the tower, which are then plotted on a map and refreshed often enough to be considered in 'real-time').

This 'device' is separate from the phone and acts as the cell tower, letting the phone communicate with the satellite and vice versa in absence of an actual cell tower.


Just to get things straight here. Right?

Except it's specifically stated that this works in places where you are outside cell phone range. So the question, at least for me, is still, "How?"

[WhoShotJR]

http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-info/inreach-smartphone.php

Connects via Bluetooth and runs on two AA batteries, weighs 8 oz with lithium batteries installed. Seems hard to believe it has enough transmitting power to reach satellites.

[ImfromtheGovt]

Not really, man. UHF & higher frequencies are line-of-sight. You really only need high wattage to get through stuff like trees and buildings. If you have a clear LOS to the sky, then you really don't need much wattage at all. I am pretty sure the satellite is a repeater, so once it receives your transmission, it re-broadcasts it at whatever wattage is necessary (and in a direct line transmission most likely) to reach the digi-peater on the ground that connects to the Internet for message transmission.

I looked into it some more before hitting "Submit" and found that its using the Iridium Satellite Phone network. Communication between satellites and handsets is done using a TDMA and FDMA based system using L-band spectrum between 1616 and 1626.5 MHz. At that high a frequency, very little power is needed to get good TX distance. Unlike the "Spot" service, the Iridium apparently has whole-planet coverage.

Seems like a pretty cool thing, except reviews for it says it TX's WAAAAY better than it RX's. Plan on it being a one-way communicator for the most part...

[doitnstyle1]

most of the phones will receive satellite information especially for GPS. It is only a matter of programming to change that into a communication device.

(We really need a "bang head on brick wall" smiley)

A receiver does not a transmitter make, no matter how you play with the software. And, even if it did, how were you planning to transmit back to the satellite? Using what power and what antenna? A 3/4 watt signal from a unity gain omni stands as much chance of being picked up by that satellite as that candle I mentioned earlier has of signaling the space station.

Think about it.

Cell phone = phone that communicates via radio waves to tower units ('cells') to send/receive calls and etc

Thus, cell phone = high-tech walkie-talkie type thing

that has secondary functions like GPS tracking through aforementioned cell network (tower pings phone through network and cross-references the ping time with GPS coordinates based on the known location of the tower, which are then plotted on a map and refreshed often enough to be considered in 'real-time').

This 'device' is separate from the phone and acts as the cell tower, letting the phone communicate with the satellite and vice versa in absence of an actual cell tower.


Just to get things straight here. Right?

Except it's specifically stated that this works in places where you are outside cell phone range. So the question, at least for me, is still, "How?"

Pixies, Magical pixies carry the signal transmission high enough for the satellite to receive.

In reality in order to send a digital packet information the transmission power can be highly reduced and will travel quite a distance. I think even Ham radios operating digital signal packets do not have to have that much power. i could be wrong. i am not a Ham extra with those privileges.

[KJ4VOV]

I wasn't saying it couldn't be done, just saying it couldn't be done (as someone above stated) with just a software tweak to an existing phone. Also, if anyone here has ever seen or used an Iridium phone, they know there's a pretty beefy antenna on one. Trying to do this with just a stock phone and a software tweak is nigh on impossible, and even with the additional hardware of the device and using digital modes, TX ad RX are going to be very marginal at best.

Take a look at what a typical ham would use for satellite work, even up in the 1.2gHz band, and you get an idea of what I'm talking about.

So, I'm still interested in just how this is being done, and by "how" I mean some specifics on the hardware, antenna, etc. Unfortunately, because it's new and proprietary, there's not much real deep technical info that I can find.

Or maybe the pixies are covering it up...

[ImfromtheGovt]

I was able to find this:
http://files.delorme.com/manuals/InReac ... Manual.pdf

Iridium Communication
Using the DeLorme inReach’s Iridium® communication services requires a clear view of the sky. A subscription is
required to operate this device. For more information, go to explore.delorme.com.
••Frequency Spectrum: 1.61GHz–1.63GHz
••Transmission Power (peak): 1.6W

Because it only sends a short-burst data transmission, the bandwidth it needs to use should be a whole lot smaller than the phones that send a voice transmission. Could this be the biggest reason that it only needs to transmit at 1.6(peak) watts and still get a good hit on the satellites?

[KJ4VOV]

I was able to find this:
http://files.delorme.com/manuals/InReac ... Manual.pdf

Iridium Communication
Using the DeLorme inReach’s Iridium® communication services requires a clear view of the sky. A subscription is
required to operate this device. For more information, go to explore.delorme.com.
••Frequency Spectrum: 1.61GHz–1.63GHz
••Transmission Power (peak): 1.6W

Because it only sends a short-burst data transmission, the bandwidth it needs to use should be a whole lot smaller than the phones that send a voice transmission. Could this be the biggest reason that it only needs to transmit at 1.6(peak) watts and still get a good hit on the satellites?

Well, that 1.6w is a pretty good increase over the .75w of a typical cell phone, and the device must contain its own antenna, but even using digital burst it's got to be pretty marginal, and I'll bet stormy weather really degrades it.

[nacho]

This is pretty awesome, and would have been useful to have last weekend. I was camping in a location in an RF hole the only way I could communicate from the site was on a govt radio system, there wasn't even amateur coverage. To make a long story short there was a wildfire about a block from my buddy's home, and he had no way to contact his family so he had to split and drive back to town. Being able to send a couple SMS messages would be worth the $10 a month.

[Burncycle]

Aren't PLB's about that same size?

[Blacksmith]

Aren't PLB's about that same size?

Some are. I'd rather be able to send messages though.

[Burncycle]

Aren't PLB's about that same size?

Some are. I'd rather be able to send messages though.

Agreed! My comment was directed towards those who were remarking that it looked too small / weak to communicate with satellites; PLB's do it with similar size/power constraints so it's not unreasonable. The ability to send messages would definitely be useful.

[JFlagg]

most of the phones will receive satellite information especially for GPS. It is only a matter of programming to change that into a communication device.

It's been said twice already, but I'm simpler English, cell phones don't use satellites for its gPS tracking features. They use the cell signal to triangulate their position via cell towers. So no cell signal=no GPS

[Smokecheck45]

most of the phones will receive satellite information especially for GPS. It is only a matter of programming to change that into a communication device.

It's been said twice already, but I'm simpler English, cell phones don't use satellites for its gPS tracking features. They use the cell signal to triangulate their position via cell towers. So no cell signal=no GPS

That's only partially true. Most phones have a GPS receiver built in them now days. They will use this GPS reciever to relay your position back to the network. It is more accurate and cost effective for the cell company. While some models will still use the traditional timing advance value used to get an aprox distance from the servicing tower, your gps enabled phone will only do it if you are in a gps denied spot, IE inside building or underground.
Your phone will also still receive the gps signal if it is outside a cell coverage area and provide that to you to use with map programs that allow you cashe maps.


These new generations of sat comm devices are getting pretty small and awesome for the commercial market. Now if they could just teem up and get the cell phone makers to install a UHF transmit antenna you could have it all in one device. Hmmm I wonder if there is a external antenna I could get for an iPhone.
Just food for thought.

[JFlagg]

most of the phones will receive satellite information especially for GPS. It is only a matter of programming to change that into a communication device.

It's been said twice already, but I'm simpler English, cell phones don't use satellites for its gPS tracking features. They use the cell signal to triangulate their position via cell towers. So no cell signal=no GPS

That's only partially true. Most phones have a GPS receiver built in them now days. They will use this GPS reciever to relay your position back to the network. It is more accurate and cost effective for the cell company. While some models will still use the traditional timing advance value used to get an aprox distance from the servicing tower, your gps enabled phone will only do it if you are in a gps denied spot, IE inside building or underground.
Your phone will also still receive the gps signal if it is outside a cell coverage area and provide that to you to use with map programs that allow you cashe maps.


These new generations of sat comm devices are getting pretty small and awesome for the commercial market. Now if they could just teem up and get the cell phone makers to install a UHF transmit antenna you could have it all in one device. Hmmm I wonder if there is a external antenna I could get for an iPhone.
Just food for thought.

I that's true, than why does my new iPhone 4Gs lose its ability to track itself on GPS in this one specific area of MO where I work? I get zero cell coverage but I have a lot of clear visibility to the sky... If it had GPS as backup to when it's out of cell range, then would be a perfect time for it to kick in.

[Smokecheck45]

It will depend on what you are trying to do. If you want to use your phone as a backup GPS device there are a few cool phone aps that will allow you to cache maps (this is important b/c with no cell service you will not be able to download maps via data over the cell network) on your phone. The app will still use the GPS time signal to determine your exact position, according to your GPS standards, and plot your location on the maps you have cashed on them.
I was using my Iphone on a road trip and as I traveled into an area with no cell service, my phone was still tracking my location and plotting it on a map, the map just had no, well maps. Just terrain data that was previous loaded on a pre-downloaded route to follow.
Most of the time you have the ability to turn the GPS functions on or off. If you are using Google Maps, you will notice that sometimes it has a dot with a blue shaded circled around it, this is b/c there is a poor GPS signal and it is mainly using you location based on tower triangulation or it does not have a solid 3 satellite time signal lock on your location.
Then other type is a blinking blue dot. That means your device has a solid GPS signal lock and is confident down to a 10 meter location.