Year-round clothing system - please criticize!

Items to keep you alive in the event you must evacuate: discussions of basic Survival Kits commonly called "Bug Out Bags" or "Go Bags"

Moderators: Woods Walker, ZS Global Moderators

Year-round clothing system - please criticize!

Postby derf26 » Tue May 22, 2012 12:35 pm

Hey guys,

So as some of you may remember, I was working on lightening and improving my INCH/BOB bag a while back. I've successfully lightened my shelter by half without compromising much on functionality - and I've been scaling back virtually every aspect of gear. So much so, that right now, my clothing system is by far the heaviest component, and that's not including the worn clothes.

Yesterday it was pretty rainy, and I realized that my paper-thin rain jacket was failing on me. It's a decent rain jacket, at least in principle, but it lets water through when the material stretches, and it's about as windproof as a spider's web. I realized that while this was inconvenient during summer, during the colder months this would be downright dangerous. So, out came my trusty winter coat. Anyway, enough rambling - here's the stuff. This is supposed to work likewise during cold winter months in eastern europe, and hot summer days in the Mediterranean. Ironically, my backpack is going to be significantly heavier during the summer than during the winter. Oh well!

Worn
These clothes are kept in an ultrasil backpack (20 litres, weighs about 50 grams) and ready to grab in case I don't have the time to put them on. However, I EDC the pants and shirt pretty often anyway.

Image

Sun hat - 100g
Liner socks - 28g
Light wool socks - 46g
Bandana - 34g
Belt - 100g
Baselayer - 150g
Thin polartec shirt - 330g
5.11 Shirt - ?
5.11 pants - ?

Most of the above isn't part of the weight list though, since I assume I'll wear it under most circumstances. The belt goes into the pack the moment I put it on because it interferes with the hip belt, and the polartec shirt won't be worn in the sun obviously.

The rest

Image

link to bigger picture

Spiraling left-to-right, then right-to-left:

Wool shirt and wool pants as baselayers. They replaced my sleeping bag liner, and are great during the winter too.
Merino wool long sleeve shirt - 290
Merino pants - 268
Sunglasses w/ hides - irrelevant, under 50g
2 extra pairs of underwear - 70g each
3 pairs of wool socks with varying thickness, and 3 pairs of liner socks, plus 1 pair of light trail running socks all on top of a drybag. - 420g altogether
Waterproof socks - Probably not the most durable, but will save my feet if I fall into a cold lake or something. - 70g
Short event gaiters - 62g
Mechanix leather work gloves - 123g
Polartec fleece gloves - 51g
Warm liner gloves - 35g
Summer wind gloves - 26g (can also be layered)
Missing - Waterproof over-glove mitts to be bought when I can afford them
Polartec took hat - yay for warm ears! - 43g
Neck gaiter - 33g
Rain pants - 260g
Wind shirt - 100g
far left is a spare trekking shirt - 245g
Monkey man synthetic insulated jacket - 600g
Down jacket - 420g
Primaloft insulated waterproof smock with reinforced shoulders and elbows = really awesome - 1060g

Footwear

Image

These are my boots. Gore-tex lined, plus I try to wax and spray them every few months. If they were a half-size smaller, they'd be perfect. They're of little use during the summer though, so I'm looking for some lightweight, breathable trail shoes, along the lines of the barefoot philosophy. The pair ought to weigh under 400g and be virtually unnoticeable when in my pack during most of the year. They will do double-duty as river crossing shoes that provide traction but keep my main boots dry!

Link to potential summer footwear


What happens if it rains in the summer?
The sun hat has moderate rain resistance, as does the wind shirt, which means that in combination with the rain pants I'm pretty much good. If it's so warm that I can't use my winter coat on it's own (or with a baselayer) then if I do get soaked, I probably won't be hypothermic.

In the winter, I use the long wool underwear, plus the 5.11 pants, plus the marmot rain pants, and I have a three layer system that ought to be warm enough as long as I'm moving - those 5.11 pants are quite thick!

What if I need to wash the pants?
I have a shirt replacement, but what about the 5.11 pants? While those are being washed/drying, I simply use the wool baselayer + rain pants. Saves on bringing spare pants, and the 5.11 stuff is pretty durable. I've been wearing my current ones everyday (alternating with a different colour) for over a year with no signs of wear.

What if I fall into a river?
Most of my spare clothing, especially base layers, down jacket, sleeping bag, all the socks, etc., are in drybags that will stay dry. The waterproof socks will prove invaluable when my boots are wet but I need to keep walking. I just get rid of my wet socks, but on some dry socks, put them inside the waterproof boot liners, and voila.
The rain coat and it's insulation works even when wet.

Most obvious way to save weight
Get rid of one of the insulating garments. Either the down jacket, or the synthetic one. The down is lighter, the synthetic is more realiable and easier to clean in the field. Who the hell has a tumble drier with tennis balls during a bugout? Plus if it gets wet, it's useless. Ideally, I'd bring both for cold winters, but then again ideally I'd bring snowshoes and my big-ass goretex winter gaiters. Unless I'm actually bugging out in winter though, I have some obvious size and weight constraints.

I've also saved lots of weight by getting rid of individual stuffsacks and using a bigger, collective stuffsack or drybag.

Why the heavy rain jacket?
It was awesome this winter, and I've realized it's basically the weight of a summer rain jacket + some decent insulation, except it's more reliable than my current one and a lot more durable.

So, here's my current system. It's taken me over a year and a half to get all this clothing together, and I'm still looking for a waterproof outer glove and some lightweight summer trail shoes. This being the heaviest and bulkiest component of my pack, I would really appreciate help on reducing the weight. Maybe I've missed something and I can forego certain items altogether?

Remember though, this needs to be a four season clothing system!

Thanks guys :)

p.s. I was logged out and everything was erased. Thank you good habits for ctrl-a & ctrl-c before I make any posts!
Last edited by derf26 on Tue May 22, 2012 3:02 pm, edited 6 times in total.
libertarianPrepper.com
Youtube channel

"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure."
"Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plan is horrifying."
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Preparedness Carry System | My Bug-out clothes | Ultralight list of tips
User avatar
derf26
* *
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:47 pm
Location: a Police State

Re: Year-round clothing system - please critisize!

Postby maldon007 » Tue May 22, 2012 12:42 pm

Tagged.
Image
User avatar
maldon007
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:49 am
Location: Pickle Bucket Brigade

Re: Year-round clothing system - please critisize!

Postby derf26 » Tue May 22, 2012 12:59 pm

maldon007 wrote:Tagged.


Thanks, I guess? Is that some kind of punishment? :cry:
libertarianPrepper.com
Youtube channel

"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure."
"Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plan is horrifying."
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Preparedness Carry System | My Bug-out clothes | Ultralight list of tips
User avatar
derf26
* *
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:47 pm
Location: a Police State

Re: Year-round clothing system - please critisize!

Postby 74 or more » Tue May 22, 2012 1:16 pm

derf26 wrote:
maldon007 wrote:Tagged.


Thanks, I guess? Is that some kind of punishment? :cry:


No. he means he bookmarked it to reference later. haha it's good.

Bring the right amount/kinds of clothing it's something I'm always trying to perfect for my trips. I have a tendency to pack too much.
Montani Semper Liberi
"There is no bad Bourbon, only better Bourbon"
"If I cannot smoke cigars in heaven, I shall not go" -Mark Twain

My EDC/GHB
User avatar
74 or more
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:54 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA

Re: Year-round clothing system - please critisize!

Postby derf26 » Tue May 22, 2012 3:14 pm

74_or_more wrote:
derf26 wrote:
maldon007 wrote:Tagged.


Thanks, I guess? Is that some kind of punishment? :cry:


No. he means he bookmarked it to reference later. haha it's good.

Bring the right amount/kinds of clothing it's something I'm always trying to perfect for my trips. I have a tendency to pack too much.


Yeh, it's difficult leaving good clothing behind, especially when you consider you might never see it again (in an INCH scenario).

Also, I just tested the waterproof socks. Although they're light and thin, by golly that seam seal works good. Stood in them in my folding kitchen sink for a minute and nothing got through. Excellent :mrgreen:
libertarianPrepper.com
Youtube channel

"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure."
"Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plan is horrifying."
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Preparedness Carry System | My Bug-out clothes | Ultralight list of tips
User avatar
derf26
* *
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:47 pm
Location: a Police State

Re: Year-round clothing system - please critisize!

Postby 74 or more » Tue May 22, 2012 8:02 pm

derf26 wrote:Also, I just tested the waterproof socks. Although they're light and thin, by golly that seam seal works good. Stood in them in my folding kitchen sink for a minute and nothing got through. Excellent :mrgreen:


Thats awesome. I was talking with a buddy of mine about gortex shoes and how they can be very pass or fail. If you DO happen to get water in them (trying to cross a stream or something) it would probably stay there since they're gortex. I guess the solution to that is have waterproof socks haha
Montani Semper Liberi
"There is no bad Bourbon, only better Bourbon"
"If I cannot smoke cigars in heaven, I shall not go" -Mark Twain

My EDC/GHB
User avatar
74 or more
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:54 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA

Re: Year-round clothing system - please critisize!

Postby derf26 » Wed May 23, 2012 2:24 am

74_or_more wrote:
derf26 wrote:Also, I just tested the waterproof socks. Although they're light and thin, by golly that seam seal works good. Stood in them in my folding kitchen sink for a minute and nothing got through. Excellent :mrgreen:


Thats awesome. I was talking with a buddy of mine about gortex shoes and how they can be very pass or fail. If you DO happen to get water in them (trying to cross a stream or something) it would probably stay there since they're gortex. I guess the solution to that is have waterproof socks haha


Yeh - my thoughts exactly. I initially thought about this when I read a personal experience someone had falling from a canoe or something and getting lost for a few hours. I realized that walking goretex boots dry could take forever, and in the cold it would be very dangerous. These socks are big enough that I can fit several layers of wool socks underneath if I need to :)

I bet I could even put my wet wool socks over them and they would still provide warmth.
libertarianPrepper.com
Youtube channel

"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure."
"Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plan is horrifying."
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Preparedness Carry System | My Bug-out clothes | Ultralight list of tips
User avatar
derf26
* *
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:47 pm
Location: a Police State

Re: Year-round clothing system - please criticize!

Postby maldon007 » Wed May 23, 2012 9:49 am

Sorry, yeah... tagged casue I check the "view your posts" button first, and I was interested in what everyone thought... cause it looks great to me, but I'm a damn floridian & know little of the cold :lol:
Image
User avatar
maldon007
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:49 am
Location: Pickle Bucket Brigade

Re: Year-round clothing system - please criticize!

Postby hutchb25 » Wed May 23, 2012 11:52 am

This is something I'm trying to get hammered out myself. So far my clothing in my BOB is very minimal, and I need it to be 4 season capable. I basically have whatever I'm wearing, a boonie hat, a neckgater/balaclava, and some wool socks. I need some polypros, some rain pants (have a poncho), and at least a pair of jeans and a shirt and then I'll figure out actual weather wear I think.

I try to keep in mind that in a bug out of more than three days (I'm shooting for a 'for sure' survival time of a week at least), things could get pretty labor intensive. Hunting/gathering, scouting, shelter construction, being out in the brush in general...so I'm kind of hesitant to go with commercial 'outdoor wear'. Most articles seem great for 'performance', but not so much for labor.
"Listen to me! Sometimes, possession is an abstract concept..."
hutchb25
* *
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:57 pm
Location: North Idaho

Re: Year-round clothing system - please criticize!

Postby derf26 » Wed May 23, 2012 12:19 pm

hutchb25 wrote:Most articles seem great for 'performance', but not so much for labor.


There is a lightweight trend that sacrifices durability for weight quite often, which is why at the basis of my system is a pair of cargo pants and shirt from 5.11 - I know their stuff lasts well. And since I'm wearing it most of the time, it's not technically pack weight.

hutchb25 wrote:a pair of jeans and a shirt


You definitely want to avoid jeans though. Cotton is crap when it gets wet, it dries slowly, and jeans are impressively heavy. Go for some sort of synthetic or mixed material. My 5.11 shirt dries much faster than my cotton dress shirts, even though the cotton shirts are a lot thinner.

The rain pants really are a must too. I've been in a poncho in bad rain, and the bottom of your trousers gets wet very quickly, and then all of that water goes down into your boots - bad news! Rain pants that cover the top of your boots are already great, but gaiters can help too. I think you also want some rain gloves or mitts (just a light over-layer), especially for when it gets cold, which I still need to buy myself.
libertarianPrepper.com
Youtube channel

"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure."
"Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plan is horrifying."
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Preparedness Carry System | My Bug-out clothes | Ultralight list of tips
User avatar
derf26
* *
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:47 pm
Location: a Police State

Re: Year-round clothing system - please critisize!

Postby rsnurkle » Wed May 23, 2012 10:09 pm

I like your system--compressible-insulation seemed to be the way to go whenever I tried to think about carrying a year-round system and what that would look like.

Hat suggestion: either in addition to the polartec insulating hat or as a replacement, what if you looked into a down/primaloft insulating hat (e.g., integral design's Primalid)? That way you could beef up the insulating value, but store it in similar (or less) space to the polartec. That would be my plan, a puffy hat plus the liner hat I have now, to cover all pieces of the cooler temperature spectrum.

derf26 wrote:Yeh - my thoughts exactly. I initially thought about this when I read a personal experience someone had falling from a canoe or something and getting lost for a few hours. I realized that walking goretex boots dry could take forever, and in the cold it would be very dangerous. These socks are big enough that I can fit several layers of wool socks underneath if I need to :)

I bet I could even put my wet wool socks over them and they would still provide warmth.

Is there any chance that's my sorry tale of mistakes you've mentioned? Did someone learn something from me? Even if it isn't, from that one experience, two notes about wet socks and goretex layers:

* During my tipover adventure, I was complaining a lot about my feet being wet and thus cold, and not being able to get the water out of my waterproofed AND insulated boots--to walk them dry, specifically. However, even with the water inside, I *was* able to walk them WARM.

This took probably an hour and a half of constant walking, and that "yay! warm feet" feeling actually occurred *just* as we reached the road and heated car (damn irony gods =P) so I didn't talk about it much in my writeup, but it definitely happened. So if you find yourself in a situation where the waterproofing gets circumvented, getting your feet warm is a backup option if you can't get them dry right away.

* However! Walking them warm is less likely to occur the more layers you have on your feet.

Unless you can guarantee water isn't going to sneak past the tops of your waterproof socks I wouldn't wear more socks inside of them, unless those socks are almost negligibly thin. Right after putting my feet with two layers of dry socks back into my wet boots and facepalming, I got back into my boat, pulled the wet shoes and second pair of socks off, and within fifteen minutes, my soaked feet that were now only covered in 1 layer of medium-weight merino sock got warm (they were still wet, but actually comfortably warm). For this reason, when I went back into my boots, I didn't put the second pair of socks back on.

It's possible that the second pair of socks were doing the whole no-space-so-circulation-is-cut-off thing, but my explanation is that the amount of water in my boot with each extra pair of wet socks is significantly greater than the amount of water in my boot with only one pair of wet socks on.

Tl;dr version: if your feet get wet, or your boots get soaked inside and you're relying on your goretex socks while you move somewhere to get dry, don't put any extra layers over or under them--it will make it harder to walk them warm, and walking them warm will help you be just a little bit more comfortable while you figure out how to get dry.
User avatar
rsnurkle
* *
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Year-round clothing system - please critisize!

Postby derf26 » Tue May 29, 2012 12:13 pm

Hey guys. Made some modifications to my system.

No 1. Got rid of the down jacket. I talked to a long distance backpacker and the consensus seems to be that down is good for when you're on a break and around camp (when less exertion = less body heat), but that using it under a backpack's shoulder and hip straps is a recipe for disaster since it will compress in those places and the lightweight fabric and all the stitching is bound to be damaged too. I have enough insulation to keep warm around camp as it is I think, so - less weight - Yay!

No 2. Got rid of the extra shirt. One shirt is just fine, because I also have 1 thin baselayer and 1 wool baselayer, so I'll just wear one of those while my shirt is getting washed and dried.

rsnurkle wrote:Hat suggestion: either in addition to the polartec insulating hat or as a replacement, what if you looked into a down/primaloft insulating hat (e.g., integral design's Primalid)? That way you could beef up the insulating value, but store it in similar (or less) space to the polartec. That would be my plan, a puffy hat plus the liner hat I have now, to cover all pieces of the cooler temperature spectrum.


Hey, thanks for the suggestions, but that polartec hat is VERY warm, and in addition with the insulated primaloft hood on my smock, plus a bandana or two I could throw on, there's really no need for more warmth. Most of the time this winter (admittedly not a very cold winter but still sub-zero temps) I was so hot I didn't use the hood nor the hat, or if I did it was just the hood. I reckon I'll be fine even in cold winters, but I'll test that out come November :)

rsnurkle wrote:Is there any chance that's my sorry tale of mistakes you've mentioned? Did someone learn something from me?
...
However, even with the water inside, I *was* able to walk them WARM.


Yeh, I think it was you! Ha, thanks :)

And that's good to know that feet can generate that much heat! Also excellent points about the socks, I hadn't thought about that.
libertarianPrepper.com
Youtube channel

"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure."
"Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plan is horrifying."
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Preparedness Carry System | My Bug-out clothes | Ultralight list of tips
User avatar
derf26
* *
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:47 pm
Location: a Police State


Return to Bug Out Gear

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], LaSombra13 and 9 guests