My idea of the ultimate fighting pistol.

[UndeadInfidel]

smells like spam to me.

Pretty much.

It seems like spam to me as well. The only thing missing is the link to buy Ricky Recon's "gamechanger" 9mm 1911 with a threaded barrel.

[lokifz1]

Damm commercials on ZS. And they don't even have the courtesy to say they are connected to the company and what their financial interest is.

Very nice first post.

[UndeadInfidel]

Damm commercials on ZS. And they don't even have the courtesy to say they are connected to the company and what their financial interest is.

Very nice first post.

Well, he did paste the same exact thing on the 1911 forum.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread. ... ost3854043

and snipershide
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads ... er=3302900

and arfcom
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_49/12508 ... tml&page=1

Dunno if that qualifies it as spam or not.

[TheLastOne]

[UndeadInfidel]

It also uses the same photo as the company's website (not going to link it here). That pistol costs almost 3 grand.

[chills1994]

the same picture he posted in his OP, is directly from their business's website too.

I didn't have to look, but I assumed he spammed other boards as well. Thanks for doing the leg work for me. I am not surprised.

for dang near 3 grand, the bullets better do a midcourse correction for me and hit dead nuts zero for me every time.

[lokifz1]

Yeah a little internetz search shows the same guy pimping these guns on nearly every forum you can think of.

[chills1994]

since I don't have an ARFcom account, somebody mind posting how he did at the USPSA Single Stack Nat's with that gun and/or who shoots for Team South Fork Arms?

and from one of those other forums he rattles off some 1911 parts makers names....which in reality don't mean squat.

a lot of those guys are farming out their parts to other companies now too, and just slapping their names on them too.

I would not be surprised if some MIM parts are sneaking by either.

[Dave_M]

I don't get it. The pistol looks nice and all, I mean REALLY nice, to look at, but I don't at all see what makes a (really nice) suppressed, 9mm M1911 the "ultimate fighting pistol." Why not just throw a can on a Glock 17, Glock 19, or Sig-Sauer P226? (If it said, "Ultimate Looking Sexy Pistol" I'd be right there with you.)

I'm not trying to refight "Glock v. 1911," just wondering if there is something specific about a suppressed 9mm 1911 that hits some kind of sweet spot compared to other suppressed 9mm pistols.

From my, Best Suppressor? Basic Q&A thread

This is a sticky on another forum and most all of the information here I've posted in assorted other threads on this forum. However, I thought it would be appropriate to consolidate it all here.

When you're talking about the, "best" suppressed weapon, a lot of factors come into play.

No matter what caliber, you're fighting several factors:
-Velocity: supersonic or subsonic

-Bore Diameter: the larger the bore diameter, the harder it is to suppress since more gas will exit the bore (and not go into the can). Path of least resistance and all. This is why a good suppressed 9mm is invariably quieter than a .45ACP with a can of similar quality

-Rifle v. Pistol: Rifle rounds, in general, expel more gas than pistol rounds. This means you need a larger suppressor to capture the gas. This is also why a lot of subgun (FA rated) suppressors are nearly twice the size of their semi-auto designed brethren.

-Action of the weapon itself: Blow-back firearms don't suppress very well, since the gas not only escapes from the bore but also from the action. I wish there were better options in .22lr (compare a suppressed 10/22 and a suppressed bolt action .22lr and you'll immediately hear the difference). Same goes for open-bolt guns. Course' I'll take the trade of slightly higher noise for a semi-auto in .22lr. Kalashnikov's don't suppress very well because of the very open gas system. You get gas blowing out of the gas block like crazy. Rapid expansion of gases in open air = more noise.

-Barrel length: A unsuppressed .22lr 6" pistol is louder than an unsuppressed .22lr 16" rifle because of the relative rates of gas expansion. Ergo, a shorter barrel = a louder suppressed gun.

and damn, we haven't even gotten into suppressor design yet

I'm gonna say: Far too many factors involved to say what configuration is, "best". Especially since what's important to me may not be important to you (hence why I'll take the blow-back .semi-auto 22lr system over a boltly, even though it's louder).

Furthermore: Full-size suppressors on 16”+ barrel really suck. Let me tell you why: It adds barrel length and completely tosses any sort of firearms balance out the window. You currently and basically have three options (and compromises) in regards to suppressors with the AR platform:

-Decrease sound/flash but add barrel length and disregard balance.
-Decrease flash/velocity but use an SBR to help balance (but it’s not as quiet as with a fullsize.)
-Utilize a smaller can that’s good for reducing flash, doesn’t affect balance too much, but isn’t as quiet on a 16”+ weapon (the Surefire ‘mini’ and ‘micro’ cans come to mind)

I honestly dislike running a full-size, more effective suppressor on anything other than an SBR or a precision DMR(ish) build (since the weight is taken up by the mounted bipod).

Rob Sloyer had some very good comments on suppressors (AR-specific) that I completely agree with (especially with the, ‘hear before you buy’ part)

Clearly some cans are better than others, just like some cars are better than others. But how do you define "better"? The can nerds will point to only the data and only care about how quiet the suppressor is. They *may* care about how it's made as it affects longevity, but this is typically even more academic since most will never shoot the volume of fire at the rate required to make even the crappiest cans fail. Discussions of "best" therefore, in these circles tend to focus on these factors alone and leave out features that are of more importance to many actual users. Factors like cost, length, weight, length added to weapon, mounting system, and even longevity, solvency, stability and marketing tactics of the company. Not to mention initial cost, which is often the strictest factor for many purchasers.

Many purchasers of firearms and firearms accessories (and cars, and motorcycles, and houses, and...) are as equally concerned with the perception of their purchases among their peers as they are with any of the above. A guy that shoots in a club where GemTech is considered the "best" will quite often buy one himself just because it's what fits in. A member of an online forum where another brand is considered "best" may buy a can from that company to make that bunch happy.

I say all that to point out that you have two choices. The first is to educate yourself, figure out what features are important to you, learn about metallurgy, welding, fabrication, etc. Unfortunately, for right now, there is no Explanation of Features that goes with the can chart linked to above. There are a lot of reasons for that, not the least of which is having too many other irons in the fire.

The second is to take a simpler approach. Stick to cans made by the 'big names" in silencers, to include GemTech, Advanced Armament, Surefire, and Knight's Armament (with some slightly smaller companies like SWR, AWC, Yankee Hill, and Ops thrown in as well if you'd like). These are well-established companies, with with plenty of product out on the market, with good quality product reputations (in spite of the mud slinging against one another that some of them participate in) and they generally produce good products. Limit your education to the basics like length, weight, and price and choose accordingly.

I would personally avoid makers outside of those listed above. I have no interest in these little one-man outfits making silencers in their mom's basement, making outlandish claims as to noise reduction and materials, and claiming that secret military units are using their product with zero proof.

Factoring out the "me-too-ism" and the buying to belong crowd, not to mention those that ignorantly become obsessed with a 1 or 2 decibel difference at the exclusion of all else, I have a few that I would recommend at different price points.

YHM Stainless Phantom $585
Decent quality, fast attach mount, relatively inexpensive ($585 is MSRP and they can be had for less) and many dealers will have them in stock because they are cheap to carry. They may not be made of all the high-tech materials, with all the latest and greatest processes, but frankly I'm a little tired of listening to guys that shoot 100 rounds a year suppressed crow about their wunder-can that cost 3x as much.

Gem-Tech G5 $850
Gem-Tech has been around a long time, making cans for a long time. The G5 is a good, mid-price-point can that will more than meet the needs of the vast majority of the Form 4 market.

Advanced Armament M4-2000 $999 (plus $100+ for a mount)
Good mounting system, good, well made can with top shelf materials. Probably a better can than 99% of their "lifestyle" purchasers will ever make use of.

Surefire FA556 series ~$1200+
Very good (meaning minimal) POI shift when shooting suppressed/unsuppressed. Good mounting system.

One final note. If you haven't heard a 5.56 can in person, make arrangements to do so before you purchase. buying a 5.56 can without having ever heard one prior is the surest way to a huge disappointment. Once you decide on the can you think you want, figure out a way to get hands, and ears, on that particular model so that the features you think look good on paper actually translate to being good in person.

Bottom line: One needs to honestly evaluate their needs as far as weight, mobility, and capability. This sounds simple but it’s something that very few people fully consider before they plop down $1k or more on a suppressor + tax stamp.

What is important to me may not be important to you. A secret-squirrel assassination team operating in a foreign country is going to have different priorities in regards to sound and flash and action and barrel length than someone who casually attaches a suppressor at the range or even a member of a fighting team overseas. I cannot stress enough how much one needs to honestly assess their own needs.

This thread is really about assessing needs and lining them up with caliber, action, barrel length, and more.

[smokestack]

well, the wheelgun in .44 will stop any fight that you come across, man or beast. i have a .40 glock 23 and really enjoy it. ive had three different 1911's a para, a springfield(the GI version it was crap) and a nice kimber. all in .45. these were nice pistols but i dont totally trust a 1911. a ruger redhawk in .44 now thats a fight stopper

[TDW586]

I don't own a 9mm at the moment, so, none. But if I did, the answer would be "as much as I want to buy", so I don't really understand your point. 147-grain 9mm is not at all an exotic, uncommon or hard to find load, and generally less expensive than equivalent (duty grade hollow point) .45 ACP.

Again, I wouldn't say suppressed 9mm in the standard 147gr load is "significantly" quieter, so I wouldn't allow that to be the leading factor in my decision. Just speaking from a realistic perspective, because the "ultimate" fighting pistol will vary from individual to individual. You can theoretically have as much of anything you "want", but realistically you probably don't or never will. I personally already have stocks of ammo, so for me the ultimate suppressed pistol would take advantage of my current ammo stocks.

I'm not so sure about subsonic 9mm... The 9mm is based on the "light and fast" method for getting the job done, and good ammo is designed to expand. I'd think you'd compromise that shooting low-velocity loads. I'm a big 9mm guy, but if I were gonna suppress it, I would have stuck with a .45.

Also, this. You can shoot the most effective 45acp defense ammo and still remain the ballistics that make it a great defense round. 9mm subsonic ammo is inferior to standard 230gr 45acp defensive loads. You can't compare 9mm subsonic loads to the +P defensive stuff everyone is raving about.

As far as the suppressor itself, I'd want a 45acp can that can suppress both 9mm and 45acp, because realistically I don't have enough money or time to jump through all the ATF bullshit hoops and pay thousands for multiple stamps. You're not going to get every single ounce of performance out of suppressing 9mm with it, but a single modern 45acp can will suppress most semi auto rounds (9mm, 40cal, 45acp, etc) to a hearing safe level while dry. I guess I'm just more a fan of the utility of a suppressor than anything. Having 9mm can that's limited to specific ammo types is... limiting.
\

Disclaimer - I'm fairly drunk and none of the above may make perfect sense.

Oh, I'm not saying this is the perfect fighting pistol, far from it. I'm not a big fan of 1911's at all, personally, and a 9mm 1911 would be my last choice. I'm just talking about the suppression, specifically.

By the way, I'm not sure where you got the idea that 9mm 147 grain loads are less effective than lighter loads, the opposite is actually true in general.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk 2

[David Clark]

I kinda stumbled across this website while looking for what the heck an ATI Fatboy was/is. I thought what the hell give it a try.

I'm not much on zombies, or doomsday 2012, not a birther or 911 conspiracy theorists and for damned sure not a spam artist.

In fact if any of you care to run through my posts at arfcom you'll find I'm an enthusiast. I smith a bit, will compete in this years Bianchi cup, open class. With a single stack 1911 of course. I participate heavily in arfcoms reloading forum. I carry a redesigned Colt Officers 1911. It's a one off. Also carry G19 bug, sob. I shoot long range rifle and load for it. Have one AR, just cause everyone needs one.

Pistols in stable include some very old and very new 1911s. One Beretta Elite Ii, Para P18-9. Both excellent candidates for suppression. Have carried and still own one XD. There's a BHP In the house.

Just sold a sweet tricked out G34. Not sure how it works here. Most forums welcome a first time poster. Like most gun nuts everytime something of interest or new comes along I like to post pictures.

I've had the privilege of knowing Jason since 06. He manned the help desk at Graf & Sons, Mexico, Missouri. That was back when I had one 1911 I couldn't make run or able to load for shit. Back before knowing what a factory crimp die was.

Jason is a good friend of mine, mentor, brother at arms and competive team mate. I'm in no way affiliated with Jason in business. Matter of fact I make my living hauling cows from Missouri out to western Kansas. If posting a picture of my truck loading cows, would that be spam ?

Probably not, no more than posting pictures of my favorite brand of gun.

I'm mostly a Colt fanboy, not much on kool-aid. I do own two of Jason's pistols. I like showing them off in shark skin trimmed horse hide by Milt Sparks. Even have Milt Sparks holster for my OD green, G19.

So thanks for the warm welcome and the dialogue. Hope I haven't offended anyone with one picture of my idea of ultimate fighting pistol.

As Jonathan would say. If it ever came down to using my pistol. I've not done my job and somethings gone terribly wrong.

Looking forward to post number 3,

david clark aka 1911smith/wrench.

[David Clark]

Almost forgot... If you go to 1911 discussion at arfcom. See thread titled, PROJECT ROCK ISLAND ARMORY.


Damn, don't you just hate spam trolls. !


Woops, that was post number 3.

[hatchtrikk]

I kinda stumbled across this website while looking for what the heck an ATI Fatboy was/is. I thought what the hell give it a try.

I'm not much on zombies, or doomsday 2012, not a birther or 911 conspiracy theorists and for damned sure not a spam artist.

In fact if any of you care to run through my posts at arfcom you'll find I'm an enthusiast. I smith a bit, will compete in this years Bianchi cup, open class. With a single stack 1911 of course. I participate heavily in arfcoms reloading forum. I carry a redesigned Colt Officers 1911. It's a one off. Also carry G19 bug, sob. I shoot long range rifle and load for it. Have one AR, just cause everyone needs one.

Pistols in stable include some very old and very new 1911s. One Beretta Elite Ii, Para P18-9. Both excellent candidates for suppression. Have carried and still own one XD. There's a BHP In the house.

Just sold a sweet tricked out G34. Not sure how it works here. Most forums welcome a first time poster. Like most gun nuts everytime something of interest or new comes along I like to post pictures.

I've had the privilege of knowing Jason since 06. He manned the help desk at Graf & Sons, Mexico, Missouri. That was back when I had one 1911 I couldn't make run or able to load for shit. Back before knowing what a factory crimp die was.

Jason is a good friend of mine, mentor, brother at arms and competive team mate. I'm in no way affiliated with Jason in business. Matter of fact I make my living hauling cows from Missouri out to western Kansas. If posting a picture of my truck loading cows, would that be spam ?

Probably not, no more than posting pictures of my favorite brand of gun.

I'm mostly a Colt fanboy, not much on kool-aid. I do own two of Jason's pistols. I like showing them off in shark skin trimmed horse hide by Milt Sparks. Even have Milt Sparks holster for my OD green, G19.

So thanks for the warm welcome and the dialogue. Hope I haven't offended anyone with one picture of my idea of ultimate fighting pistol.

As Jonathan would say. If it ever came down to using my pistol. I've not done my job and somethings gone terribly wrong.

Looking forward to post number 3,

david clark aka 1911smith/wrench.

Had you posted this ^^^ here: viewforum.php?f=10 no one would have thought it was spam.


Anywho, welcome to the forum!

[alptraum]

Had you posted this ^^^ here: viewforum.php?f=10 no one would have thought it was spam.


Anywho, welcome to the forum!

Basically that. This site has a very low advertising/spam level and when your very first post is basically an ad for your friends company hopefully you can see how it can rub people the wrong way.

Though personally I think a large and low capacity 9mm based on an old design being considered the "Ultimate Fighting Pistol" is pretty silly anyways.

[UndeadInfidel]

Oh, I'm not saying this is the perfect fighting pistol, far from it. I'm not a big fan of 1911's at all, personally, and a 9mm 1911 would be my last choice. I'm just talking about the suppression, specifically.

By the way, I'm not sure where you got the idea that 9mm 147 grain loads are less effective than lighter loads, the opposite is actually true in general.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk 2

Agreed that I wouldn't consider the OP's 9mm the ultimate fighting pistol. I'd personally look for something with a higher capacity.

What's the latest flavor of the month in 9mm defense rounds? The 124-127gr +p ammo, or 147gr hollow points?

Either way, while I agree that 9mm will be quieter than a 45acp round due to the overall diameter, I don't think it's significant enough to discount the effectiveness of a suppressed 45.

[lokifz1]

The ballistic workshop I participated in the lighter 9mm +p loads all crapped out when shot through various media making shallow penetration in the gelatin. The best 9mm load was the subsonic 147 grain it just chugged along.

All rounds were shot through heavy clothing
wall board and auto glass.

[crypto]

I have a wire welder, I run Argon/CO2 mix. Never felt the need to buy weld tip "lube". I hope it works much better inside suppressors than it does for inside welding tips.

Some people want a gel inside their cans because it stays put longer than water. A popular choice is the gel lube that people use to pull cable or wire, I can only guess that the tip lube is the same kind of thing.

ETA: water-based sex lube gel like KY is also a popular choice.

[TDW586]

Oh, not discounting the effectiveness of the .45 ACP suppressed or otherwise, it works just fine. It's just that the idea that the 9mm is inherently worse than the .45 for suppressed applications is a myth, that's the point I'm making.

AFAIK, 147-grain is still the generally agreed upon "best of the best", but 124-grain +P is gaining popularity.

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