Sticky for introduction radios

[MaconCJ7]

Think we can get a sticky going for folks looking for a decent radio as an introduction into HAM?

I ran a google search and there are 3,000 hits for "First radio" on this site. I'm going to be in the market, as I plan on getting my license when I get home. I've been in the field for 12 years professionally and I'm just now getting into the amateur side. Horrible, I know. But I know nothing about good civilian radios.

I'm thinking a list of portables and mobiles that the "wise" users here have had good experience with. Maybe even a list of some to stay away from, either from personal experience or chatter about how horrible they are.

[Tater Raider]

Seconded.

[KJ4VOV]

All in favor, say "Braaaaiiiinsssss.." er... say "Aye"

Where do we want to put the list? Attach here or start a new thread?

[MaconCJ7]

All in favor, say "Braaaaiiiinsssss.." er... say "Aye"

Where do we want to put the list? Attach here or start a new thread?

Aye Captain!

Sticky this, change the title, start list.

Create new thread, make it sticky, start list.

I'm not picky how it happens, just so long as it happens.

[KJ4VOV]

Third option, but more work, add stuff here then later ask a mod to extract the good stuff to its own thread. Nah, too much work on that one.

Okay, one more suggestion... How about a set of ZS criteria to "rate" radios on? Things like durability, waterproof, etc?

[zommoz10]

I don't think it would work.

First of all, there's entire sites devoted to the topic of which radio to get. Such as eham.

Second of all, new radios come out all the time. The list would have to be constantly updated.

Third, not everyone can or should use a "ham" radio. Me for instance, I go boating and I need a radio certified for marine use and don't want to have to use two radios.

There is no one size fits all radio be you a newcomer to the hobby or otherwise and personally, I think that newcomers are best starting out with a mobile or base radio most of the time then again like I said, there's no one-size-fits-all radio.

And lastly, it would leave us with nothing to talk about. And the prospect of that happening makes me very

[MaconCJ7]

I don't think it would work.

First of all, there's entire sites devoted to the topic of which radio to get. Such as eham.

Second of all, new radios come out all the time. The list would have to be constantly updated.

Third, not everyone can or should use a "ham" radio. Me for instance, I go boating and I need a radio certified for marine use and don't want to have to use two radios.

There is no one size fits all radio be you a newcomer to the hobby or otherwise and personally, I think that newcomers are best starting out with a mobile or base radio most of the time then again like I said, there's no one-size-fits-all radio.

And lastly, it would leave us with nothing to talk about. And the prospect of that happening makes me very

Everyone that can use a ham radio, should.

The list only needs to be updated as folks try new radios. The idea isn't for a list of every radio out there and the pros/cons of them, such as what eham has. The idea is to list quality radios that folks on here have experience with. The eham argument you have is flawed from the start (not being argumentative, just making observation). There's sites out there dedicated to every one of the topics we talk about on here. And yet, we all keep coming here.

This is part of my ignorance in the area coming out, but wouldn't a 2m ham fulfill the requirements of marine VHF operations?

I'm personally game to have a mobile radio for my ruck, and a portable radio for my person. It's solid reasoning that my truck will be at my base camp. If I have issues while in the field, I can holler at whomever is at base camp for help. The only issue would be setting up static times for base camp to have the radio on.

There is still plenty to talk about besides just radio models. If good comms relied solely on the radio, we wouldn't have so many discussion regarding proper antenna tuning and alignment.

I'll agree that there is no one size fits all. That's true for every topic. Some folks simply prefer one brand over another for no other reasons than menu layout, all else being equal.

[MaconCJ7]

Okay, one more suggestion... How about a set of ZS criteria to "rate" radios on? Things like durability, waterproof, etc?

I like that.

Portables:

Battery life
Rx/Tx quality
Rx sensitivity
size/weight
available bands
Ruggedness (water resistance, drop resistance, temperature resistance)


Mobiles:

Rx/Tx quality
Rx sensitivity
available bands
Ruggedness to a degree (vibration resistance, temperature resistance)

[KJ4VOV]

I like that.

Portables:

Battery life
Rx/Tx quality
Rx sensitivity
size/weight
available bands
Ruggedness (water resistance, drop resistance, temperature resistance)


Mobiles:

Rx/Tx quality
Rx sensitivity
available bands
Ruggedness to a degree (vibration resistance, temperature resistance)

To which I'd add:

Ease of use/complexity (need a 200 page manual for it?)
Parts/accessory availability (battery packs, antennas, etc.)

[TacAir]

I'll offer this - most newcomers to radio don't have any idea about the gnarly technical aspects of the hobby - hell, a lot of old-timers don't for that matter.

The OP is a radio head and likely understands terms like "2 microvolts for 12 dB SINAD" modulation radio, modulation index and sideband suppression in dB against the source carrier -- mean - vs - the radio has clear audio and does well under low signal conditions.

The same would go for MDS (Minimum discernible signal), sensitivity in microvolts needed for 10 dB S/N ratio and other very technical measures which are the real measure of a radios capability. Selectivity, overload limits and so on are all measures of how well the radio will work.

May I suggest that folks that do have radios post how they use the rig (portable, mobile, fixed) and how well they find the radio works for their needs. Factors like battery life, weight and as noted before, ease of use are what most folks are concerned with.
Most of the newer radios have their technical specs posted elsewhere, so the operational ease for the new user may be of more interest.

Or not.

FWIW, I have just wrung out the comms I'm carrying for the summer MBO - an SGC SG2020, tuner and battery, a NVIS antenna (which go in a separate thread if it works well.) I'm also taking a AT-271 to compare the NVIS against.

Trouble is, the radio can only be found used, and rarely at that - the tuner is no longer made and so on. One of the troubles of being an old head - is that the gear is old as well (shrug).

The alternative is for the new ZS hambone to indicate an interest in a specific rig and ask if others have one and how it works for them.

Will continue to watch this thread. Once a 'format' seems to have solidified, I''ll put up some data on the FT-817. - to see of that meets a need
All of my hand held FM gear is old enough to be out of production.

[MaconCJ7]

I'll offer this - most newcomers to radio don't have any idea about the gnarly technical aspects of the hobby - hell, a lot of old-timers don't for that matter.

May I suggest that folks that do have radios post how they use the rig (portable, mobile, fixed) and how well they find the radio works for their needs. Factors like battery life, weight and as noted before, ease of use are what most folks are concerned with.
Most of the newer radios have their technical specs posted elsewhere, so the operational ease for the new user may be of more interest.

Very good points. Being on the technical side, I'm cool with numbers being thrown at me. I can see how they would mean jack all to a lot of users.

The typical info like TacAir outlined above should suffice for entry information.

Might I also suggest that as members have questions about a specific model, a new thread is started, with a hyperlink inserted into the "list". That will keep the list topic from becoming overloaded with too much info.

FWIW, I have just wrung out the comms I'm carrying for the summer MBO - an SGC SG2020, tuner and battery, a NVIS antenna (which go in a separate thread if it works well.) I'm also taking a AT-271 to compare the NVIS against.

Trouble is, the radio can only be found used, and rarely at that - the tuner is no longer made and so on. One of the troubles of being an old head - is that the gear is old as well (shrug).

I'll be interested on how it works for you. My experience shows the NVIS to win that comparison, but your terrain may show different results. I was also using dissimilar radios. We actually had the PRC-77 until 2003.

The NVIS has proven to be quite the capable antenna to me. I've talked 800+ miles at 100W using one. 4-5 x 5 all day long. That was using a PRC-150 in a vehicle kit. Using the URC-119 (Pacer Bounce) at 500W, I've talked the same. Haven't had to talk further as of yet. The NVIS has been my favorite antenna for a long time. So long as you have a tuner, they're great.

[zommoz10]

The eham argument you have is flawed from the start (not being argumentative, just making observation). There's sites out there dedicated to every one of the topics we talk about on here. And yet, we all keep coming here.

Your argument is flawed because while we discuss other topics, we don't create stickies for each one.

I am proposing that we continue to discuss the topics, I just don't favor the idea of yet another sticky that nobody's going to read anyway. Especially one that's subjective and requires maintenance.

[MaconCJ7]

Your argument is flawed because while we discuss other topics, we don't create stickies for each one.

touche

I think a sticky on this subject is warranted for the diverse number of topics about it. We all know the search function sucks, adding 3,000 posts that deal with it doesn't help the average user.

A sticky would consolidate a lot of that, would limit repeat topics, and I think would add to the progress of sub-forum instead of detracting from it. How many people get put off simply because there are so many choices and they have no idea where to start? Those that are determined to get into good commo will find what they are looking for. Those that want to get into it, but are overwhelmed by the options may simply walk away and stay with a CB.

If someone is looking for a radio, finds what they think will work, posts about it here just to find out they made a horrible decision (radio over heats, mic-jack is easily damaged, audio is distorted...) will ask the question the sticky would have already answered.

[Tater Raider]

Your argument is flawed because while we discuss other topics, we don't create stickies for each one.

touche

I think a sticky on this subject is warranted for the diverse number of topics about it. We all know the search function sucks, adding 3,000 posts that deal with it doesn't help the average user.

A sticky would consolidate a lot of that, would limit repeat topics, and I think would add to the progress of sub-forum instead of detracting from it. How many people get put off simply because there are so many choices and they have no idea where to start? Those that are determined to get into good commo will find what they are looking for. Those that want to get into it, but are overwhelmed by the options may simply walk away and stay with a CB.

If someone is looking for a radio, finds what they think will work, posts about it here just to find out they made a horrible decision (radio over heats, mic-jack is easily damaged, audio is distorted...) will ask the question the sticky would have already answered.

Plus it would specifically target first-time buyers nd not the old guard or people looking to expand. Looking for a specific band of handheld, make a topic. Looking for a mobile rig with more capabilities than you already have? Start a thread. You're looking for an NVIS system and have questions about what works and what doesn't? Start a thread - wait, I've got that one covered so look for a thread I started.

"I'm thinking about getting my license. What should I get for my first radio?" Read the <censored to protect the delicate ears of the undead hordes> sticky.



EtA: It's not a catch-all, just a way to avoid 138 threads that are some varient of that one very specific topic - seperate the wheat from the chaff as it were.

[zommoz10]

But what the eff is a "first radio"
Is that sort of like the equivalent to "etch-a-sketch" being a child's first laptop?

I wish someone told me when I first got my ticket, not to buy a single radio until I had enough saved up to get an all band, all mode HF/VHF/UHF radio.

But something tells me, the sticky is going to be a list of <$200 monoband portables that will give the user very limited experience with ham radio and they will either lose interest or gain interest and therefore have to get a more capable radio which will then take longer because they just plunked down money onthe portable.

[MaconCJ7]

But something tells me, the sticky is going to be a list of <$200 monoband portables that will give the user very limited experience with ham radio and they will probably say after a while, "fluck this boring shizz, I'm going to go watch tv"

Man, I hope not. I'm a quality guy. However, if $200 package will get me the same as a $400 kit, I'll go the $200 route. I'm thinking more along the lines of radios that you guys have used and have enjoyed. It might just be a $99 throw away item. It might be a $5,000 system. Everyone's budget is different, applications are different, and their goals are different.

My goal, for example, is to have a system in my rig, and a portable for my person. The application will be for contact as needed. I want my wife to get her license too, and we'll be able to stay in contact in the woods better. I don't need to drop a lot of money to do what I need. I already know I can spend less than $500 and have my radio and antenna system set up to meet my vehicle needs.

I'm not planning on setting up a kick ass station at the house and talk to folks around the world. I may venture into that in the future, but for now I'm down with good mobile comms that will keep me in touch with the outside if needed.

2m is going to fit my immediate desires. In the future I'll get a dedicated HF rig as well, or upgrade the 2m to a multi-band.

[KJ4VOV]

But something tells me, the sticky is going to be a list of <$200 monoband portables that will give the user very limited experience with ham radio and they will either lose interest or gain interest and therefore have to get a more capable radio which will then take longer because they just plunked down money onthe portable.

Not so! I was going to list a couple of dual band units.

You have a very valid point though, and one that I hope we render invalid by coming up with a workable format for such a thread. I think the idea of "ZS Real World Criteria" would be a point in such a threads favor. As has been pointed out, tech specs can be had on the manufacturers site, we could put a link to that, but what the average ZS radio newbie seems to want (besides a Star Trek communicator) is realistic information based on real world usage. We can provide that, but we should try and do it in a consistent and easy to read format.

I'd also suggest breaking the list into more than one thread, one for Ham Gear, the other for Non-Ham Gear, and that the ham gear thread be put in the ZSARC section. That puts it where the hams are and where new discussions about ham radio logically should go.

[zommoz10]

Everyone's budget is different, applications are different, and their goals are different.

Ok but that's my whole point!

How do you create a sticky for every person when their applications, budget and goals are different?

It would be as intuitive as 3000 separate posts spanning the course of 10 years.

People need to get their butts down to HRO or wherever.

[zommoz10]

But something tells me, the sticky is going to be a list of <$200 monoband portables that will give the user very limited experience with ham radio and they will either lose interest or gain interest and therefore have to get a more capable radio which will then take longer because they just plunked down money onthe portable.

Not so! I was going to list a couple of dual band units.

You have a very valid point though, and one that I hope we render invalid by coming up with a workable format for such a thread. I think the idea of "ZS Real World Criteria" would be a point in such a threads favor. As has been pointed out, tech specs can be had on the manufacturers site, we could put a link to that, but what the average ZS radio newbie seems to want (besides a Star Trek communicator) is realistic information based on real world usage. We can provide that, but we should try and do it in a consistent and easy to read format.

I'd also suggest breaking the list into more than one thread, one for Ham Gear, the other for Non-Ham Gear, and that the ham gear thread be put in the ZSARC section. That puts it where the hams are and where new discussions about ham radio logically should go.

It would be a full time job to maintain.

One thing that could make sense is a sub forum in communications just for ham stuff. So at least people could more easily find relevant topics.

[Tater Raider]

I think the idea of "ZS Real World Criteria" would be a point in such a threads favor.

I like the idea of doing this, making it a sticky, and once everyone parses it down to just the essentials locking it so it doesn't get crapped up with a couple very knowledgable people who disagree on one thing.

[Boyscoutdreams]

Ok, my two cents.
The Sticky should be the most frequently asked questions. Simple non technical answers. Maybe as good answers are given in other posts on communications, regardless of topic, they could be cut and pasted. Lock it so that "discussions" about the topics are not taking up endless room on there. That way the file is not to many pages long and the area in question is easier to fund.
Just a thought.