ammo after shtf

[foxx]

I've seen where it's estimated that you get 20% more power out of an 18" barrel vs. a 4" barrel, when shooting the same .357 magnum round. I think I saw this on Chuck Hawks website, but looking now I can't find it. Anyway, I know it's still a handgun caliber, but with some .357 magnums you can get over 2000 fps.
A lever gun in .357 magnum is a strong possiblity for me. I have not priced bulk ammo for the .357 magnum, but even at Wal-mart they are expensive, $25 for a box of 50 remington FMJ. Some nicer HP's can get pricy. Yet, I could still use .38 specials and +P's.

[Bender711]

I've seen where it's estimated that you get 20% more power out of an 18" barrel vs. a 4" barrel, when shooting the same .357 magnum round. I think I saw this on Chuck Hawks website, but looking now I can't find it. Anyway, I know it's still a handgun caliber, but with some .357 magnums you can get over 2000 fps.
A lever gun in .357 magnum is a strong possiblity for me. I have not priced bulk ammo for the .357 magnum, but even at Wal-mart they are expensive, $25 for a box of 50 remington FMJ. Some nicer HP's can get pricy. Yet, I could still use .38 specials and +P's.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/

They do lots of testing of barrel length on velocity.

[Kutter_0311]

For that cost, you may want to look into an AK just for less expensive ammo.

7.62x39 will get you better range, capacity, and is still a .30 caliber bullet.

5.45x39 will get you much better range, much lighter ammo, and is even less expensive than 7.62x39.

[foxx]

Maybe I over think these decisions, but I see each gun as part of a system, and it's own system. It's cleaning tools, the mainteinance, cost of parts or repair, the knowledge of it's workings, the cost of mags, which brand ammo works best, how many rounds before I replace the barrel, etc.. et...
Then there's the consideration of range, do I want a scope, accessories, (tac lights), single sling point or two, it just seems to go on and on. It's information overload. It makes me want to get a .357 magnum lever gun and a good horse, call it a day.

I'm going to get flammed for asking, but... Why do I need so much ammo? What or who will I be shooting at, and am I at home, on the road, or on foot? I live in the country, unless we're looking at Red Dawn, how much shooting will I be doing? If civilization falls apart, I guess I would love to have a lifetime supply of ammo for numerous guns.
Planning and prepping for anything and everything is impossible for me. If I had an automatic rifle, I'd probably waste lots of ammo in a gun fight, no training for such things with auto weapons. OTOH, I have shot semi-auto guns, and try to make each shot count, when it comes to target practice and past hunting experiences.

[KnightoftheRoc]

Been lurking on this thread, had to chime in here-

Stealing is stealing. For example: Taking jewelry off of a dead person before the dead person is buried. The only possible way to make stealing from the dead more reprehensible and repugnant is for you to be the causative agent of the person's demise and then you steal from them.
So, diggin' 'em up for it is OK?
TheLastOne specifically (and most other people here) have got the right idea.

But to take it one step further, how many rounds do you think you are going to send before you receive one? Stay in the real world where there are no extra lives or health potions. I understand the, "My kingdom for a horse" idea, but be serious.

There's an easy litmus test for "is it stealing or not?"- ask yourself, do I OWN it? If the answer is no, it's stealing. See? Simple. There ARE no special conditions to apply, if you need to, it's stealing. The dead man isn't using it anymore- that still makes "it" his- it will be listed as his under the heading of "the deceased's effects" when the cops come to pick him up, so there's your legal record, right there.

When you park your car and go into a store, you're not using it- would you be OK with it if I came along and "scavenged" it? How about your house and it's contents- you're at Wally World, you're not using it. OK if I stop by and make myself at home? Or, better yet, stop by and make it MY home? Let's not kid ourselves here- unless you wear a sign on your chest that reads "in the case of my demise, please take what you can use from my corpse", you're not going to want anyone taking YOUR stuff, even if you're dead- especially if the person taking it helped MAKE you dead.

The idea of getting supplies from any official outfit is silly, at least here in the USA. Look at how the government handle Katrina- people were lucky if they managed to get fed, and that was in the relief camps set up to provide things like food. No military unit or LE department is going to be handing out ammo or other supplies like it's Halloween, even if you DO have a spiffy Mall Ninja costume goin' on.

Deciding what you should stock for your own use, based on findings of these outfits- that's just good sense. They've done all the hard and expensive work for you already, why re-invent the wheel? But if your idea of stocking that ammo is to get it off a fallen officer, or taking it by force from an installation, then you're an idiot, and your Darwin Award awaits you.

Hey, after they shoot you, can I have your stuff?

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but to address the same sort of posts that seem to be coming up more often lately. If you got offended by this post- good. Time to re-think your priorities.

[Kutter_0311]

Maybe I over think these decisions, but I see each gun as part of a system, and it's own system. It's cleaning tools, the mainteinance, cost of parts or repair, the knowledge of it's workings, the cost of mags, which brand ammo works best, how many rounds before I replace the barrel, etc.. et...
Then there's the consideration of range, do I want a scope, accessories, (tac lights), single sling point or two, it just seems to go on and on. It's information overload. It makes me want to get a .357 magnum lever gun and a good horse, call it a day.

My AK's each have $50 slings and $30 rear sling point modifications, and that is enough to get very good use out of them. I have about 20 mags, I think, though cost varies by caliber, and other things. 7.62 AK mags are $10/each, but 5.45 mags are more.

I'm going to get flammed for asking, but... Why do I need so much ammo? What or who will I be shooting at, and am I at home, on the road, or on foot? I live in the country, unless we're looking at Red Dawn, how much shooting will I be doing? If civilization falls apart, I guess I would love to have a lifetime supply of ammo for numerous guns.
Planning and prepping for anything and everything is impossible for me. If I had an automatic rifle, I'd probably waste lots of ammo in a gun fight, no training for such things with auto weapons. OTOH, I have shot semi-auto guns, and try to make each shot count, when it comes to target practice and past hunting experiences.

Training, defense, offset price increases... The list is long.

[TheLastOne]

Maybe I over think these decisions, but I see each gun as part of a system, and it's own system. It's cleaning tools, the mainteinance, cost of parts or repair, the knowledge of it's workings, the cost of mags, which brand ammo works best, how many rounds before I replace the barrel, etc.. et...
Then there's the consideration of range, do I want a scope, accessories, (tac lights), single sling point or two, it just seems to go on and on. It's information overload. It makes me want to get a .357 magnum lever gun and a good horse, call it a day.

I'm going to get flammed for asking, but... Why do I need so much ammo? What or who will I be shooting at, and am I at home, on the road, or on foot? I live in the country, unless we're looking at Red Dawn, how much shooting will I be doing? If civilization falls apart, I guess I would love to have a lifetime supply of ammo for numerous guns.
Planning and prepping for anything and everything is impossible for me. If I had an automatic rifle, I'd probably waste lots of ammo in a gun fight, no training for such things with auto weapons. OTOH, I have shot semi-auto guns, and try to make each shot count, when it comes to target practice and past hunting experiences.

You are thinking exactly the right amount. Not a damn thing wrong with keeping things simple. NOT a damn thing wrong with a 357 lever and your pistol in what your ao sounds like too. Make sure you know how to use em both well, have a maintenance strategy as far as parts and cleaning goes, and you're as good as it's gonna get imo.

That's not a dumb ammo question about ammo needs either, and I think it's good that you are asking yourself that question. " How much ammo do you realistically expect to need?" is frankly the first question a lot of people don't seem to be asking themselves.
My answer to myself is this, yours may be different:

A. I get the range 2 times a month, I shoot about 200 rounds of pistol and rifle each time. Multiply this out for a year and that is what I want on hand at any given time for training. I also add the fact that I'm getting my ass to milcopp this year (YIPEE!) for training and added a grand of pistol and rifle for this purpose this year. I also added a thousand of each type just because it's an election year and I don't feel like dealing with any potential ammo price increases/shortages because I'm cheap and lazy. This is how I determine my training 'stockpile'.

B. "battle stockpile" to me is ambiguous and borderline stupid/paranoid/not necessary. But I got one anyway
This is my defensive ammo that I don't touch. It's more expensive defensive rifle and pistol ammo that I bought separately and store separately and don't use. If I feel like training a bit with it to make sure of function tests etc, I buy separate and don't touch the 'stockpile'. For me, it's 800 rounds rifle, and 300 rounds pistol, because frankly I'm not good enough to live long enough to use any more of it/justify spending if it came down the war being on my doorstep. This is me being paranoid enough to have some, but realistic enough to know that if some situation actually happened where I'd need it, I'd be pretty much be going down in a blaze of glory/ineptitude that doesn't require me to have 5k rounds of it.

3. 22lr is in a different category and I keep about 5k rounds of it just because. I don't have a reason other than it is cheap and small and why the f not?

I've also narrowed my calibers down to 556, 9mm, and 22lr. They work for me because I say so, they may not work for everybody, and that's what makes America awesome. We all get to choose and fucking yell at each other about why mine is better

But seriously, Foxx, those are good questions and are asked better than a lot of people seem to. Kotr says stuff better than me, but we seem to agree that realism seems to be lacking sometimes on this and other boards, and it's refreshing when somebody with a lick of sense pops in now and again.

[foxx]

TheLastOne, Thanks man, I try to be realistic, about my weapons and training. I even try to be realistic when talking about Zombies, as far as how to cope with the unknown dangers of the world.

[Bender711]

The ideal stockpile is how ever many rounds you shoot in a year times how ever much longer you plan on living. If you want a .357 lever gun and a revolver to go with it, go for it. I love all my tacticool "assault rifles" but when it comes down to it, the marlin 336 is coming with me in the end.

[jor-el]

The ideal stockpile is how ever many rounds you shoot in a year times how ever much longer you plan on living. If you want a .357 lever gun and a revolver to go with it, go for it. I love all my tacticool "assault rifles" but when it comes down to it, the marlin 336 is coming with me in the end.

So I guess it's OK for your kids to not survive you, or that they won't need guns or ammo. Much as they have heat vision/cryo-nasty breath I think I should leave something for mine.
There are other factors to consider like storage space/conditions and longevity in storage.

[foxx]

Not all of us have kids. I have younger relatives, but I'm not stocking up on ammo for them, they have parents.

[Kutter_0311]

I've also narrowed my calibers down to 556, 9mm, and 22lr. They work for me because I say so, they may not work for everybody, and that's what makes America awesome. We all get to choose and fucking yell at each other about why mine is better

Oh yeah? Well, my 7.62x39 is better cuz I like to shoot through stuff, and hit my target with indirect fire past 300m!

Honestly, I'm glad you have a round your comfortable with, and you have an interest in getting a rifle. Handguns are, well, handy, but rifles are what gets things done, whether it be taking largish game efficiently, or taking out BG's safely. Most people start hoarding stocking ammo conservatively, and then gradually start shooting more, because, hey, it's fun, and I've got this pile of ammo! I just pulled my pile from my BOL and I'd forgotten how much I had I do plan on stocking for my kids, but I'm also going to buy guns for them, since features I find usefull scare the bejesus out of some people

[tookieblueeyes]

In my mind it makes more sense to stock pile the ammunition you will need for your particular choice of firearm for when SHTF and head for the hills when the fan fires up! That's my plan anyway.

And if you buy more than you think you can carry into the hills... pick your bug out location in advance and store ammunition in cache's along the way or at the actual site itself.

[bae]

In my mind it makes more sense to stock pile the ammunition you will need for your particular choice of firearm for when SHTF and head for the hills when the fan fires up! That's my plan anyway.

My plan is to start out in the hills



And keep my ammo stockpile there.

[AKFTW]

Oh yeah? Well, my 7.62x39 is better cuz I like to shoot through stuff, and hit my target with indirect fire past 300m!

I totally want to make an action movie someday where the main character and another character are in a firefight and the MC has an AK-104 or something, and the BGs take cover behind a brick wall. The person with them looks at them with a worried look, and the main character just smirks as they blow through the wall and get the BGs on the other side. Then they look at the other person and say something like "...accept no substitutes"

[Mall Ninja]

My plan is to start out in the hills



And keep my ammo stockpile there.

You keep your ammo stockpile on Mt Constitution?

[bae]

You keep your ammo stockpile on Mt Constitution?

Indeed.

[tookieblueeyes]

In my mind it makes more sense to stock pile the ammunition you will need for your particular choice of firearm for when SHTF and head for the hills when the fan fires up! That's my plan anyway.

My plan is to start out in the hills



And keep my ammo stockpile there.

That is indeed a good plan... I live out in the flats... It's about 20 miles as the crow flies south to the nearest hills for me but I do live out in the country. I have a good 360 degree view of all that surrounds me so I could see if there were any zombies ambling my way, or angry mobs on their way to loot so I would have enough time to grab my crap and hit the road before they got here if there were too many of them to fend off myself. Then I would be heading for the hills!

[Kutter_0311]

Oh yeah? Well, my 7.62x39 is better cuz I like to shoot through stuff, and hit my target with indirect fire past 300m!

I totally want to make an action movie someday where the main character and another character are in a firefight and the MC has an AK-104 or something, and the BGs take cover behind a brick wall. The person with them looks at them with a worried look, and the main character just smirks as they blow through the wall and get the BGs on the other side. Then they look at the other person and say something like "...accept no substitutes"

I was not impressed by Lord of War showwing a thick oak table stopping 60 AK rounds, or the twin hitters taking 30min to change mags. Also, pulling an M16 out of a pile of rifles scavanged from the barracks bombing and firing a burst was BS. I want a job in Hollywood where I unfuck these lies by live-fire demonstration

I thought parts of Way of the Gun were good. Mostly where he employs a FAL in ways I would, like DM'ing from safely outside the range of everyone's pistols, or shooting through hotel walls. I may not like M1a's or Springfield armory, but their line about 'bringing enough gun' has always made a lot of sense to me.

[minengr]

Anyone else happen to notice that specops and mall ninja have posted in the same thread? Sorry, was having a bit of a flashback.

No need to worry about ammo ater the shtf, one of the resident chemistry guru's should be pumping out new smokeless powder and primers in no time. Loaded ammo should be too far behind.

[Fosgate]

I look at ammo like an organ donor. If I'm dead you guys need my ammo to survive you can have it because I don't need to anymore. That is unless you were involved in my death, then I hope it's all rusty and jams your gun the next time your life depends on it. More than likely though there won't be much left because I'll be laying in a pile of spent casings.

[MacAttack]

I have now decided that all I need is my large duffel bag(for stuff I "find"), a small box of .22shorts and my butler single shot derringer.
When the PAW hits my local "environment" will provide all I need.

Anyone need preps?
Selling everything for a new video game system, a skid of Mountain Dew and Doritos.

[sarky]

In a disaster of biblical proportions scavenging is merely a form of recycling and we all want to be green friendly right!

[Kommander]

I was not impressed by Lord of War showwing a thick oak table stopping 60 AK rounds

Well the guy was a mob boss, perhaps the table was special in some way.