Will you be bringing a rifle?

[Izaya]

The advantages of concealed carry are far outweighed by some situational awareness and a good rifle. Under pressure you pistol will be useless after 25 yards for the average person. If I'm bugging out on foot I'm keeping my AR slung across my chest and accessible a roving band of baddies might just decide im not worth the effort especially if they are low on rounds. Have you ever tried to draw from your concealment holster when a guns pointed at you? I haven't and would rather never cause its a lot easier to bring your rifle up from a low ready.

I don't know if it's just my thinking, but if a bandit sees me walking down the road with my AR and chest rig on, he's probably thinking, that guy had some money before the disaster, he probably has some nice stuff in the backpack, why don't we hide and shoot him in the back while he's not looking. I'd much rather be walking around not strutting off my nice expensive things and giving out unneaded attention. That's just my thinking though. But hey I could be wrong who knows!

[Rev]

Why am I just "walking around" by myself in an area that has bandits? That sounds like I should be at least in a group of five and at that point most people would probably not think the firefight would be worth it.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

The advantages of concealed carry are far outweighed by some situational awareness and a good rifle. Under pressure you pistol will be useless after 25 yards for the average person. If I'm bugging out on foot I'm keeping my AR slung across my chest and accessible a roving band of baddies might just decide im not worth the effort especially if they are low on rounds. Have you ever tried to draw from your concealment holster when a guns pointed at you? I haven't and would rather never cause its a lot easier to bring your rifle up from a low ready.

I don't know if it's just my thinking, but if a bandit sees me walking down the road with my AR and chest rig on, he's probably thinking, that guy had some money before the disaster, he probably has some nice stuff in the backpack, why don't we hide and shoot him in the back while he's not looking. I'd much rather be walking around not strutting off my nice expensive things and giving out unneaded attention. That's just my thinking though. But hey I could be wrong who knows!

How would that differ from "hey, that guy's unarmed! Let's pop him one in the chest/back of the head while he's not looking and take his shit!" The outcome is the same for the tree sniper scenario. Logical fallacy is failing.

However, when Joe Sixpack and Rusty Roscoe see a dude with an AR on a 2 point, Joe will likely reconsider the highwayman act. if not, then at least you have him outgunned.

As I said before, go read the Gray Man threads to understand why what you're talking about is: A) wrong B) been discussed at length and C) very likely trolling.

[Supraman762]

I agree with darkaxle

[Rugger]

7'? You're doing something very wrong if you're letting people you don't know get that close.

Spraying at 100 yards? You might need to spend some more time at the range. That should be an EASY center of mass shot. And I'm not a crack shot like some of the people here. I'm betting snap shooting center of mass at 100 yards is child's play for most.

[AKFTW]

The advantages of concealed carry are far outweighed by some situational awareness and a good rifle. Under pressure you pistol will be useless after 25 yards for the average person. If I'm bugging out on foot I'm keeping my AR slung across my chest and accessible a roving band of baddies might just decide im not worth the effort especially if they are low on rounds. Have you ever tried to draw from your concealment holster when a guns pointed at you? I haven't and would rather never cause its a lot easier to bring your rifle up from a low ready.

I don't know if it's just my thinking, but if a bandit sees me walking down the road with my AR and chest rig on, he's probably thinking, that guy had some money before the disaster, he probably has some nice stuff in the backpack, why don't we hide and shoot him in the back while he's not looking. I'd much rather be walking around not strutting off my nice expensive things and giving out unneaded attention. That's just my thinking though. But hey I could be wrong who knows!

How would that differ from "hey, that guy's unarmed! Let's pop him one in the chest/back of the head while he's not looking and take his shit!" The outcome is the same for the tree sniper scenario. Logical fallacy is failing.

However, when Joe Sixpack and Rusty Roscoe see a dude with an AR on a 2 point, Joe will likely reconsider the highwayman act. if not, then at least you have him outgunned.

As I said before, go read the Gray Man threads to understand why what you're talking about is: A) wrong B) been discussed at length and C) very likely trolling.

Agreed. It's pretty well known that criminals are cowards and would prefer not to go after hard targets. An unarmed individual is certainly more at risk for attack by raiders than someone who is armed to the teeth and has their head on a swivel. But traveling alone in general should be avoided whenever possible.

[Izaya]

The advantages of concealed carry are far outweighed by some situational awareness and a good rifle. Under pressure you pistol will be useless after 25 yards for the average person. If I'm bugging out on foot I'm keeping my AR slung across my chest and accessible a roving band of baddies might just decide im not worth the effort especially if they are low on rounds. Have you ever tried to draw from your concealment holster when a guns pointed at you? I haven't and would rather never cause its a lot easier to bring your rifle up from a low ready.

I don't know if it's just my thinking, but if a bandit sees me walking down the road with my AR and chest rig on, he's probably thinking, that guy had some money before the disaster, he probably has some nice stuff in the backpack, why don't we hide and shoot him in the back while he's not looking. I'd much rather be walking around not strutting off my nice expensive things and giving out unneaded attention. That's just my thinking though. But hey I could be wrong who knows!

How would that differ from "hey, that guy's unarmed! Let's pop him one in the chest/back of the head while he's not looking and take his shit!" The outcome is the same for the tree sniper scenario. Logical fallacy is failing.

However, when Joe Sixpack and Rusty Roscoe see a dude with an AR on a 2 point, Joe will likely reconsider the highwayman act. if not, then at least you have him outgunned.

As I said before, go read the Gray Man threads to understand why what you're talking about is: A) wrong B) been discussed at length and C) very likely trolling.

It wouldn't differ, therefore it doesn't matter what you are carrying. And Id rather be carrying the easier of the 2. I definatly see your point, but I don't think a group of bandits is going to care whether you have a rifle or not if there outnumber you significantly.
And again, who cares if someone is wearing an AR or not if you shoot them in the back while they are not looking. You can be carrying a SAW with thousands of rounds of ammo and it wouldn't matter because they won't be announcing when they are going to shoot. They shoot first and hit, you're dead no matter what you carrying.

[Izaya]

The advantages of concealed carry are far outweighed by some situational awareness and a good rifle. Under pressure you pistol will be useless after 25 yards for the average person. If I'm bugging out on foot I'm keeping my AR slung across my chest and accessible a roving band of baddies might just decide im not worth the effort especially if they are low on rounds. Have you ever tried to draw from your concealment holster when a guns pointed at you? I haven't and would rather never cause its a lot easier to bring your rifle up from a low ready.

I don't know if it's just my thinking, but if a bandit sees me walking down the road with my AR and chest rig on, he's probably thinking, that guy had some money before the disaster, he probably has some nice stuff in the backpack, why don't we hide and shoot him in the back while he's not looking. I'd much rather be walking around not strutting off my nice expensive things and giving out unneaded attention. That's just my thinking though. But hey I could be wrong who knows!

How would that differ from "hey, that guy's unarmed! Let's pop him one in the chest/back of the head while he's not looking and take his shit!" The outcome is the same for the tree sniper scenario. Logical fallacy is failing.

However, when Joe Sixpack and Rusty Roscoe see a dude with an AR on a 2 point, Joe will likely reconsider the highwayman act. if not, then at least you have him outgunned.

As I said before, go read the Gray Man threads to understand why what you're talking about is: A) wrong B) been discussed at length and C) very likely trolling.

Agreed. It's pretty well known that criminals are cowards and would prefer not to go after hard targets. An unarmed individual is certainly more at risk for attack by raiders than someone who is armed to the teeth and has their head on a swivel. But traveling alone in general should be avoided whenever possible.

I do agree with this, but not sure if it will be the same in a doomsday event. If the bandits have taken a small town over completely that you are going through, they might feel intitled to your AR because they want more weapons. Just a scenario I'm throwing out there

[RickOShea]

For those who said that they would be carrying a rifle (the majority of you) could you please state the advantages of carrying a rifle or a multitude of rifles on you vs carrying a pistol

Actually, I'd classify my "rifle" more as a "carbine" (say, something with a 14.5" to 18" barrel).

In that case, this old saying still holds true:

"If you need a rifle, a carbine isn't as good as a rifle."
"If you need a shotgun, a carbine isn't as good as a shotgun."
"If you need a pistol, a carbine isn't as good as a pistol."
"But if you don't know what you're gonna need, then you need a carbine."

[Rev]

Agreed. It's pretty well known that criminals are cowards and would prefer not to go after hard targets. An unarmed individual is certainly more at risk for attack by raiders than someone who is armed to the teeth and has their head on a swivel. But traveling alone in general should be avoided whenever possible.

Not necessarily cowardly. Criminals act much the same way as a predator. Risk vs. reward and all that. I only point it out because it doesn't do to underestimate threats.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Izaya:
Start Reading Here and go through a few of the other Grye MAn threads to understand how the predatorial psyche works, and why a guy with an AR on a 2 poitn is less likely a target than a guy with no apparent means to defend himself. Also: stop posting nigh-impossible situations that require utter stupidity on your part to happen, such as walkignt through an unfamiliar town that has been taken over by raiders, who for some reason think that a guy with no weapon is not a target worth taking. Honestly, if that's you plan (in a scenario that I happen to think is about as likely as an EMP taking out all electronics forever and ever, and gold/silver becoming the new currency) then be my guest. I mean, why not go unarmed? That pistol will likely be uncomfortable to carry, not to mention the extra weight. Surely you'd be better off with a simple bow and arrow, right?

In short, troll less, read more, and learn more about criminal mindset. I'm out, before this thread makes my ulcer act up.

[HKTackDriver]

I'm still waiting to see why the pistol is more advantageous than the rifle in the OP's mind. Once we understand his rationale, we'll be able to pursue the topic a bit more. The reasons for a rifle were laid out very succinctly by others. Those reasons are the best reasons. Now why the pistol and no rifle? What benefit do you see???

There's no doubt that the rifle far surpasses the pistol in many aspects, accuracy, stopping power, etc... But what I think the pistols major advantage over the rifle is, is concealed carry. If there are like many of you have said, gangs roaming around trying to prey on people, I would like to not draw unneeded attention to me by carrying a rifle for everyone to see,I would rather have concealed personal protection that would not make me look any different than any normal civilian.

You mean, instead of making you look like a difficult target - with rifle, you'd prefer to look like an easy target and be forced to draw your pistol to prove you're not an easy target? OK, makes sense if you want to constantly be challenged.

I prefer the theory of being as scary, dangerous and crazy looking as possible. Then to be able to back it up with overwelming firepower is a nice deal sealer if someone has the gall to try and take what's mine.

[Tater Raider]

Who do bully's pick on, the guy being scouted by several colleges to fill their spot on the defensive line or the nerd with the pocket protector?

You are saying the defensive lineman. Just wanted to point that out.

[jor-el]

The advantages of concealed carry are far outweighed by some situational awareness and a good rifle. Under pressure you pistol will be useless after 25 yards for the average person. If I'm bugging out on foot I'm keeping my AR slung across my chest and accessible a roving band of baddies might just decide im not worth the effort especially if they are low on rounds. Have you ever tried to draw from your concealment holster when a guns pointed at you? I haven't and would rather never cause its a lot easier to bring your rifle up from a low ready.

I don't know if it's just my thinking, but if a bandit sees me walking down the road with my AR and chest rig on, he's probably thinking, that guy had some money before the disaster, he probably has some nice stuff in the backpack, why don't we hide and shoot him in the back while he's not looking. I'd much rather be walking around not strutting off my nice expensive things and giving out unneaded attention. That's just my thinking though. But hey I could be wrong who knows!

By this logic cops here should be getting mugged every day; ESU trucks would be broken into at least as often as ambulances around here. Top cop pay is averaging 90K. I typically carry 3-400 in cash all the time. Oddly, I haven't been mugged lately. Why do you suppose that is?

[squinty]

The advantages of concealed carry are far outweighed by some situational awareness and a good rifle. Under pressure you pistol will be useless after 25 yards for the average person. If I'm bugging out on foot I'm keeping my AR slung across my chest and accessible a roving band of baddies might just decide im not worth the effort especially if they are low on rounds. Have you ever tried to draw from your concealment holster when a guns pointed at you? I haven't and would rather never cause its a lot easier to bring your rifle up from a low ready.

I don't know if it's just my thinking, but if a bandit sees me walking down the road with my AR and chest rig on, he's probably thinking, that guy had some money before the disaster, he probably has some nice stuff in the backpack, why don't we hide and shoot him in the back while he's not looking. I'd much rather be walking around not strutting off my nice expensive things and giving out unneaded attention. That's just my thinking though. But hey I could be wrong who knows!

By this logic cops here should be getting mugged every day; ESU trucks would be broken into at least as often as ambulances around here. Top cop pay is averaging 90K. I typically carry 3-400 in cash all the time. Oddly, I haven't been mugged lately. Why do you suppose that is?

There is a difference between an apparently lone individual, or small group of civilians, and a member of a large and well equipped law enforcement agency. It's not justthe single cop and his arms BGs fear. It's the weight of retaliation from that huge body, if the BG kills or harms one of their own. Not as many people will have the armed citizen-prepper's back, and if they do, BG's won't necessarily perceive them to have such support.

My concern about OCing a rifle is the likely response I'd get from law enforcement in my AO. It is legal to open carry, but in a disaster situation I would be very nervous about the response it would garner from stressed out local authorities, more than bandits or bad guys. I believe that they would treat anyone openly carrying a rifle as a threat. It only just recently became legal to carry a weapon in a declared state of emergency in my AO. Until this year there was a statute in place that made it illegal to buy, sell, or transport a firearm whenever the governor declared a state of emergency. Note that I'm not calling my local PD bad guys or bad people, but I'm quite confident that if I left my house on foot with an AR slung over my shoulder during a civil disturbance or other disruption of the social order (aftermath of a hurricane, etc.) local PD's initial response would be dangerous to me.

Bad guys? I'd rather look like a hard target than an easy one, and rifle trumps pistol easily. But the rifle is also a tempting item to steal, by ambush or other means, both for it's monetary value and utility to the BG who sees me carrying it. I can also imagine jittery fellow survivors deciding I'm a threat because I'm walking by their home with a rifle, and popping off shots at me just in case.

A lot of those problems can be ameliorated if you have the skills and opportunity to move unseen, ie, at night, off main roads, etc. I don't really possess that kind of skillset.

This all assumes that you waited until the disaster had descended upon you and were then forced to bug out on foot. That's just sub-optimal, though it might become necessary. I'd much rather
a) gtfo before the disaster hits if possible (ie, leave before the storm hits) and if that isn't possible,
b)bug in and stay in until things get better or I'm forced back out by exigent circumstances. Walking through a disaster zone with a rifle isn't so much a problem because of the rifle, it's a problem because you're walking through a disaster zone, which will be full of suck no matter what you choose to carry.

[squinty]

I'm still waiting to see why the pistol is more advantageous than the rifle in the OP's mind. Once we understand his rationale, we'll be able to pursue the topic a bit more. The reasons for a rifle were laid out very succinctly by others. Those reasons are the best reasons. Now why the pistol and no rifle? What benefit do you see???

There's no doubt that the rifle far surpasses the pistol in many aspects, accuracy, stopping power, etc... But what I think the pistols major advantage over the rifle is, is concealed carry. If there are like many of you have said, gangs roaming around trying to prey on people, I would like to not draw unneeded attention to me by carrying a rifle for everyone to see,I would rather have concealed personal protection that would not make me look any different than any normal civilian.

You mean, instead of making you look like a difficult target - with rifle, you'd prefer to look like an easy target and be forced to draw your pistol to prove you're not an easy target? OK, makes sense if you want to constantly be challenged.

I prefer the theory of being as scary, dangerous and crazy looking as possible. Then to be able to back it up with overwelming firepower is a nice deal sealer if someone has the gall to try and take what's mine.

Sometimes people get more hostile towards the scary looking guy because they perceive him as a threat. Be prepared to do a lot of diplomacy and reassurance if you strive to make yourself look like a hard target. Some people will assume the worst and might fire on you, or draw down on you, out of fear.

OT: I'm taking my rifle anyway.

[AEuropa]

My concern about OCing a rifle is the likely response I'd get from law enforcement in my AO. It is legal to open carry, but in a disaster situation I would be very nervous about the response it would garner from stressed out local authorities, more than bandits or bad guys. I believe that they would treat anyone openly carrying a rifle as a threat. It only just recently became legal to carry a weapon in a declared state of emergency in my AO.

For the record, the OP asked specifically about WROL or WITHOUT Rule of Law. I completely agree with you that I'm not going to be strolling through downtown New Orleans with my AR hanging from a 1-point after Katrina, however that's not what Izaya asked about originally. And therein lies the problem with this thread, the OP asked about something specific, and then when our answers didn't give him a warm and fuzzy and confirm what he believed to be true, he moved the goalposts and started discussing a completely different scenario.

- Alex

[AEuropa]

Yes I understand the advantages of a rifle over pistols, I have plenty of both kind and shoot them regularly, but like I said in my last post, I believe that the advantage of concealed carry would be more significant while walking around in broad daylight with gangs around. Easier to blend into the crowd

Well, golly gee, Billy. How about we remove our cranium from our fourth point of contact and decide to a) NOT walk around in BROAD DAYLIGHT during a WROL or doomsday situation or b) NOT walk through an area with GANGS AROUND.

- Alex

[majorhavoc]

At the rate this thread is going, I give it maybe one more page before it gets locked.

[menno87]

I voted no.. and thats because 1: In the netherlands rifles are not so readily availible and 2: Crossbow is far better and much more silent.

I think a rifle gives a person more heroic stance and in P.A.W. you best avoid this if you want to stay alive. if you shoot one others will hear and there numbers will multiply.

[whisk.e.rebellion]

At the rate this thread is going, I give it maybe one more page before it gets locked.

Why wait that long?

This subject has been beaten to death, reanimated and killed again over the years.