The Dusty Rose Project - '11 JK w/ Product Reviews

[gustovski]

tater when are you gonna lift this truck?
how about you get only like a 4 inch lift and use portal axles that way you get a higher lift and get better diff clearance.

[Tater Raider]

tater when are you gonna lift this truck?
how about you get only like a 4 inch lift and use portal axles that way you get a higher lift and get better diff clearance.

The main issue I'm having with doing a lift is the cost and how much must get done to do it right. I'm thinking not this tire change but perhaps next and then upgrade things as they break under the lift stress. When I do lift it in a few years I'm looking at a 3" lift and 35" tires. I could go short, mid, or long arm at that height but am seriously thinking long arm.

This tire change I'm going a bit fatter though... 11.50 v. the 10.50 I have now. That will not void the warranty and I think I'll need a new set of 5 this winter.

[Tater Raider]

KC HiLites 6" Apollo Long Range in Black

Only complaints I have is I tore my hand up yesterday and shouldn't have done this today but I wanted to. So there. Second complaint is I had to grind off some paint to get the light bar grounded as the lights grounded to the light bar but seeing as that's SOP I'm not going to bitch beyond that. My last complaint is that 6" lights don't look right on a Jeep with 7" headlamps. Since they will get me by, function matters more than form, and it was my dumb ass that bought the 6" headlamps which work as advertised I'll shut-the-hell-up now.

Everything is pointed roughly in the right direction and works. I'll fine tune the aim a bit on my paper route and have a review then.

Something I noticed: I love wrenching on DR but tend to cuss while wrenching on DR. Go figure.

[gustovski]

they do look a little small!
but still very nice!
cant wait till your next post tater!

[KJ4VOV]

...function matters more than form...

^^^^THIS

If they do the job you want done, then that's all that really matters, the rest is just pimping.

[Tater Raider]

...function matters more than form...

^^^^THIS

If they do the job you want done, then that's all that really matters, the rest is just pimping.

Pimpin' ain't easy.



The KC HiLites came as a kit with 2 lights, 2 soft covers, wire, quick connectors, fuse, and a switch for under $100 for the pair. Tools required were a drill, 1/8" (I think) bit, wire brush for the drill, couple washers, patience, a wire crimper/stripper/cutter (I forget what that thing is called off the top of my head), and a 1/2" and 9/16" wrench. I suggest adding beer when nearly done.

It's a one wire system with the wire running inside the light bar from the passenger side down the driver's side, in through the windshield, under the dash and to the switch located near the center console. The ground wire runs from the switch to the center console. Hot wire runs from the switch under the dash to the passenger side, out through the windshield there, and directly to the positive battery terminal with the fuse located under the dash on passenger side. The lights themselves are grounded directly to the light bar.

Initially the LED on the switch worked but bad ground to the lights made them no worky. A bit of brushing off the paint and inserting a couple washers under a windshield bolt to ensure contact and I was off and running.


Light Switch was located where I have to lean forward to get at it. It makes turning it on a deliberate thing. These are for off-road use only!



Supply Wire to the switch runs directly to the battery. Power lines in the JK carry digital signals in them, this avoids that and also allows use when, say, setting up camp.

I aimed them by standing even with the side of the Jeep and about 50' in front of it and then tweaking the light until it blinded me. I'll fine tune them around 3 am when I get to the most rural part of my paper route so I don't run into legal problems.

Although it took a long time to make sure I got it done right (7 hours v. estimated 1-2 hour install time with a lot of running around because I couldn't locate what had just been in my hand), installing additional lights should only take 30 minutes each at most.

This morning I fine tuned the aim when I got to a very remote area on my paper route. Results? I'm very happy with them, thank you.

The crest of the smallish hill in these pictures is about ½-¾ of a mile away.


Lo Beams.



Low Beams + Fog Lights.



Hi Beams.



Hi Beams + Off Road Lights. Notice the hood is reflecting plenty of light - clean windshields are a must.


Note: these lights are not legal for on-road use. The photograph was taken when the truck was parked, and the road I parked on was used to aim the lights. I had clear visibility for many miles in all directions to ensure I wouldn't blind someone or cause any other issues. Do not use these when driving down the highway.


The driver's side light needs to be tweaked a bit on aim, but passenger side is good where it is. I recommend parking in the middle of a wide gravel road at 4am and turning on the 4-ways just in case, then aiming as far down theappropriateou can with the light centered on the approriate ditch.

Actually having played with them a bit at work I think 3 long-range driving lights would work fine with the center light being aimed directly down the road, and then put two wider beams on either side also aimed at the ditch to get a nice combination of long and mid-range lighting on the light bar. This should work fine for me when driving off road, cross country, at night.

For rock crawling I'd suggest looking at the Delta Ground Bars - they mount under the bumper and have a nice combination of driving, fog, and flood lights with the flood lights aimed in at where you are putting your tires. They make a front and rear bumper version. They are expensive but, IMO, probably are worth it for that kind of night driving. For bombing through the middle of nowhere like it's the Baja 1000 I'd recommend starting like I did though.

Review: For what they are, they are a pretty good value IMO. KC has a rock-solid rep on top of this. 5 out of 5 deers caught in the headlights.

[KJ4VOV]

I'd strongly suggest finding a way to reroute and/or protect that hot lead to the switch. It's going to rub on that edge under the hood until it shorts out, and since the fuse is after that, it ain't gonna be pretty.

[Tater Raider]

I'd strongly suggest finding a way to reroute and/or protect that hot lead to the switch. It's going to rub on that edge under the hood until it shorts out, and since the fuse is after that, it ain't gonna be pretty.

Protection is going to get handled Monday or Tuesday. I may be drilling a couple holes to ziptie the wire as well once it's got a shield on it.

Thanks!

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

Saw the light tests in another thread, very effective Tater.

Have you looked at the little Solstice MC/ATV 10watt 820 lumen LED lights? to augment your on road country deer spotting driving?

They come in a wide variety of beam angles so mounted low down on the grille/bumper should give you more lighting oomph for detecting roadside IED's (Intermittent Endemic Deer) while remaining legal (at least the way I read your local laws regarding driving lights, anyhow).

The site at the links may not be the cheapest (a quick search showed considerable savings elsewhere) but they had the best tech specs and pics in one place. Also they say they'll match any price.

Dusty Rose is looking teh sexy my friend, very teh sexy.

-

[Tater Raider]

Saw the light tests in another thread, very effective Tater.

Have you looked at the little Solstice MC/ATV 10watt 820 lumen LED lights? to augment your on road country deer spotting driving?

They come in a wide variety of beam angles so mounted low down on the grille/bumper should give you more lighting oomph for detecting roadside IED's (Intermittent Endemic Deer) while remaining legal (at least the way I read your local laws regarding driving lights, anyhow).

The site at the links may not be the cheapest (a quick search showed considerable savings elsewhere) but they had the best tech specs and pics in one place. Also they say they'll match any price.

Dusty Rose is looking teh sexy my friend, very teh sexy.

-

Thanks for the kind comments. I have been putting a lot into her lately and I love the feedback.

In the states I drive, pretty much Iowa has the most restrictive lighting laws on auxiliary lighting:

• Total of 3 lights allowed
• 2 Fog lights maximum, 12-30" from ground.
• 2 Driving lights maximum, 16-42" from ground
• No more than 4 lights may be on at any time
• In addition, 1 spotlight is allowed

Distance from ground is measured to the center of the light. Truck came with 2 fog lights so that leaves me 1 driving light. Off-Road lights don't count against this, obviously, but then again they cannot be used on road so... bleh. The only US DOT (Department of Transportation) law that applies to off-road lighting is that if it's a light on your vehicle can be summed up as "it has to work or you aren't legal." That one covers all lighting.

I'm against LED lighting for anything involving distance based on what I've read about LED v. Halogen v. HID lighting, and HID lighting is simply the best for off-road use for the intensity of lighting you get. HID for driving lights, however, take time to warm up and aren't always legal unless they came stock, leaving me LED and halogen. If I go with a driving light it needs to be halogen because I'm me, but if I go with a flood light/cornering light instead I could go LED.

I think I'm sticking with halogen though. I've considered LED a lot thinking if I reduce energy consumption I can decrease the fuel consumption, so looked and actually found a DOT legal 7" round LED headlight but it got very bad reviews on the JK forum I go to for product research. Because I'm all anal retentive and shit on some things and want the lights to "match" I'm sticking with halogen lighting.

This leaves me figuring out what style of beam to go with. A flood light or cornering beam would light up the ditches nicely while driving and fill in the light gap near the truck, but a euro-style beam would make the Hi-Beams a bit more intense. Because I'm limited to one light, I'm seriously thinking I should go with a cornering beam or flood light. Due to the deer issues on certain parts of my paper routes I think this needs addressing sooner rather than later.

Hella has a nice write-up on types of lighting for all types of patterns. Please click this handcrafted link for more information.

On a personal note, I've put almost as much research time into this as I have tires, which is not inconsiderable, and I feel I still have much to learn.

On the tires, I believe I'll need new ones come winter just to give me a bit of peace of mind and have decided that I'm going with the Goodyear DuraTrac. I should have 30,000-35,000 miles on the truck by then with enough tread left to sell them as used tires and avoid the disposal fee most places have. I may or may not get the Goodyear MT/R with Kevlar come this time next year depending on how well they deal with the mud over the winter. Snow and mud are the 2 biggest issues Dusty and I have to deal with consistantly and I insist on a decent on-road tire as well. ZS feedback got me waffling on the need for the summer tire, and I'm thankful for that.

I'm going to give ZS members a crack at the tires before putting them up on some dude's list.

[KJ4VOV]

On the tires, I believe I'll need new ones come winter just to give me a bit of peace of mind and have decided that I'm going with the Goodyear DuraTrac. I should have 30,000-35,000 miles on the truck by then with enough tread left to sell them as used tires and avoid the disposal fee most places have. I may or may not get the Goodyear MT/R with Kevlar come this time next year depending on how well they deal with the mud over the winter. Snow and mud are the 2 biggest issues Dusty and I have to deal with consistantly and I insist on a decent on-road tire as well. ZS feedback got me waffling on the need for the summer tire, and I'm thankful for that.

I'm going to give ZS members a crack at the tires before putting them up on some dude's list.

May I suggest that before you commit to the Goodyears that you take a gander at the General Grabber AT2? (I guess I can, since I just did.)

The wife and I put a set on her Dakota about 50,000 miles ago and next year we'll be putting another set on. Why? We'll that 50k miles included 5,000 towing a trailer across the Rockies, twice, second time in 18" of snow, a lot of winter driving in Northern Idaho and eastern Washington (various amounts of snow/ice), a lot of muddy, debris strewn construction sites in all kinds of weather, and three blizzards where we got in excess of 30" of snow. Truck never once got stuck, or even close to stuck, even when towing trailers and pulling other cars out of snowbanks. Best damn on/off road tires made IMHO.

[Tater Raider]

May I suggest that before you commit to the Goodyears that you take a gander at the General Grabber AT2? (I guess I can, since I just did.)

The wife and I put a set on her Dakota about 50,000 miles ago and next year we'll be putting another set on. Why? We'll that 50k miles included 5,000 towing a trailer across the Rockies, twice, second time in 18" of snow, a lot of winter driving in Northern Idaho and eastern Washington (various amounts of snow/ice), a lot of muddy, debris strewn construction sites in all kinds of weather, and three blizzards where we got in excess of 30" of snow. Truck never once got stuck, or even close to stuck, even when towing trailers and pulling other cars out of snowbanks. Best damn on/off road tires made IMHO.

I went against them for their comparative mud rating as done by jP Magazine. link

They compared it to the BFGoodrich's I have on Dusty already and for what I do the tires I have are inadequate. 100 miles of gravel roads at 50mph is a weekly routine and when the roads are wet those backroads vary from compacted earth with a generous covering of loose gravel to mile long mud bogs, so while I'm not second guessing your experience (and my BFG's match your experience with the Grabbers FWIW so I think it's an awesome recommendation) I have to have something a bit more aggressive in the mud.

I think I have about 5 miles or so of Level B maintenance roads, in the rain they are all pure mud pits about 1 mile long. Since mine do the job I'm sure, absolutely possitive, your tires would do the job too, but I'm a very, very busy driver under those conditions and would like to be less so.

DuraTrac should be good enough, but I'm still seriously looking at the MT/R with Kevlar even though I've been mostly talked out of them. Mostly.

[KJ4VOV]

May I suggest that before you commit to the Goodyears that you take a gander at the General Grabber AT2? (I guess I can, since I just did.)

The wife and I put a set on her Dakota about 50,000 miles ago and next year we'll be putting another set on. Why? We'll that 50k miles included 5,000 towing a trailer across the Rockies, twice, second time in 18" of snow, a lot of winter driving in Northern Idaho and eastern Washington (various amounts of snow/ice), a lot of muddy, debris strewn construction sites in all kinds of weather, and three blizzards where we got in excess of 30" of snow. Truck never once got stuck, or even close to stuck, even when towing trailers and pulling other cars out of snowbanks. Best damn on/off road tires made IMHO.

I went against them for their comparative mud rating as done by jP Magazine. link

They compared it to the BFGoodrich's I have on Dusty already and for what I do the tires I have are inadequate. 100 miles of gravel roads at 50mph is a weekly routine and when the roads are wet those backroads vary from compacted earth with a generous covering of loose gravel to mile long mud bogs, so while I'm not second guessing your experience (and my BFG's match your experience with the Grabbers FWIW so I think it's an awesome recommendation) I have to have something a bit more aggressive in the mud.

DuraTrac should be good enough, but I'm still seriously looking at the MT/R with Kevlar even though I've been mostly talked out of them. Mostly.

At the time we were shopping for tires it came down to either the Grabbers or the DuraTracs. The place we bought from had the Grabbers in stock and the DuraTracs on backorder, so that made the choice for us. I think either would be a good choice.

Which BFG's do you have on her now? I stuck a set of BFG Commercial T/A Traction tires on my duallie the spring before last and I'm not all that pleased with them. Great traction (you should see the ruts in my gravel drive from coming up it when it was a solid sheet of ice) but the treadwear is nowhere near what it should be. I've got barely 20k on them and I'll probably be replacing them within the next 10-15k. And yes, they've been properly cared for, truck aligned, tire pressures correct and checked every oil change, tires rotated every 5k, and the wear pattern on the tires is normal, just accelerated.

[Tater Raider]

LT255/75R17 BFGoodrich Mud Terrain, standard with the Rubicon package. Terrain? Absolutely! Mud? Not so much.

EtA: I'm pulling the trigger on the MT/R w/ Kevlar for a summer tire next year. They seem to be the right tool for the job and I can sell my money manager on that.

Note: I have a money manager not because I'm rich - I'm not. I have a money manager because I get loopy and my money needs protecting from me.


Edit Again to Add: I took a look and the General Grabber is a perfect match for the performance of the Goodyear MT/R w/ Kevlar. Unfortunately I cannot find it in the size I need, which sucks so much.

275/65R18 is what I'm looking for. In English I'll take any 32 x 11.00 R 18. It can be wider than 11.00, but I'm stuck with the 32" size for now.

[KJ4VOV]

LT255/75R17 BFGoodrich Mud Terrain, standard with the Rubicon package. Terrain? Absolutely! Mud? Not so much.

EtA: I'm pulling the trigger on the MT/R w/ Kevlar for a summer tire next year. They seem to be the right tool for the job and I can sell my money manager on that.

Note: I have a money manager not because I'm rich - I'm not. I have a money manager because I get loopy and my money needs protecting from me.


Edit Again to Add: I took a look and the General Grabber is a perfect match for the performance of the Goodyear MT/R w/ Kevlar. Unfortunately I cannot find it in the size I need, which sucks so much.

275/65R18 is what I'm looking for. In English I'll take any 32 x 11.00 R 18. It can be wider than 11.00, but I'm stuck with the 32" size for now.

In stock, in that size, over at Tire Rack for $226ea.. Here's the link: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=General&tireModel=Grabber+AT+2&partnum=765QR8GRAT2OWL&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Jeep&autoYear=2011&autoModel=Wrangler&autoModClar=Rubicon

And, for the record, that's where we got ours.

[Tater Raider]

Ack! AT2! Gah!

Lemme see if I can find General Grabbers. The price on those is very, very good (would save me about $100/tire) but the Grabbers are the ones equal to the DuraTrac, not the AT2.

...


However, if I can wait out the warranty, I can go with 33x12.50R18, which General does make in the Grabber model. For about $300. They just don't sell them at the site you listed.

Tires, they drive me nuts.

[KJ4VOV]

Ack! AT2! Gah!

Lemme see if I can find General Grabbers. The price on those is very, very good (would save me about $100/tire) but the Grabbers are the ones equal to the DuraTrac, not the AT2.

...


However, if I can wait out the warranty, I can go with 33x12.50R18, which General does make in the Grabber model. For about $300.

Looking on Tire Rack I see those listed for a 15" rim, but not an 18"

[Tater Raider]

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/General-Tire/Product-Line/General-Grabber-Tires/Tire-Size/33-x-12-50-18/?Ns=Rank%7cAsc&autoview=SKU

Not the best price I found but it was a quick result.

[Coal-Cracker]

...

275/65R18 is what I'm looking for. In English I'll take any 32 x 11.00 R 18. It can be wider than 11.00, but I'm stuck with the 32" size for now.

Any particular reason why you upsizing to an 18" wheel? *
I mean, I guess it's personal preference, but you'll save money going with a 17" (plus you won't have to buy wheels.), and you'll save even more money on tires if you go down to a 16", though you will have to buy wheels. (Though you could resell your stock 17s to make back that cash.) My Sahara came with those awful 18s from the factory and I couldn't wait to get them off the Jeep. When I saw what R18 tires cost, it was a no-brainer. Actually ridiculous considering your actually getting less tire.

Just promise us you won't put 20's and a lowering kit on it.

I went with Duratracs and don't regret it. In my opinion, they truly deserve all the great reviews you've read. Excellent in snow and ice, very good in mud and rocks. Over 15,000 miles and VERY little wear. I'll easily get another 20,000+ if I want to keep them that long. Lets see any mud terrain get that kind of mileage. So keep that in mind when picking tires.

* The general rule (according to all the offroad mags I've ever read) is that you're wheel size should be half you tire size. For example, a 32" tire would benefit most from a 16" wheel. A 17" wheel would be ideal for a 34-35" tire, and so on.

[Tater Raider]

Why go that route is a very good question. To answer I'm going to sum up a solid week of intense research and the choices made but while I do I'm going to rethink it. This will probably be a failry long post and I won't get upset if ya'll skip it, I promise.

The wheels need to get replaced no matter what size I go with. Utah forbids wheel spacers and the backspacing on the stock wheels is wrong for a larger tire so that's that. Since I have to replace them, what size?

I can save a lot of money per tire if I stick with 17" rims and even though it sounds wrong a 17" rim with a 35" tire weighs less than an 18" rim with a 35" tire. You'd think it would be the opposite but it's not. I just looked one up and it's about 8# per wheel difference, which means the drivetrain will see the 32# as 320#. That means 17" rims will be more fuel efficient too. On top of that the smaller the rim the more tire you have to protect the rim when you air down so that's a lot going for a 17" rim. Finally the wheels and tires both cost less. A lot less. This means availability will be better too.

What does an 18" rim have going for it then? Handling mainly. There is less section height to deform so driving response is better. There are brake upgrades in the future too, why have a larger tire if you can't stop, and some have a minimum 18" rim requirement. Finally, I've used an online program to compare what different tire/wheel size combinations will look like on my Jeep (there are a couple different ones out there) and I like the look of the 18/35 combo.

Let's set aside the looks thing. Pretty is nice but functional is better. You can upgrade the brakes on a 17" rim, so let's toss that out. I'm tossing out the money issue too and before anyone goes, "What? Are you crazy?" let me say for the record that yes I am; however, you look at the right tool for the job, damn the money, full speed ahead, then you look at how to save on what you chose.

That leaves fuel efficiency and durability v. handling. Yes, I said money was't a factor, but that's on purchase, not ongoing expences. Fuel efficiency stays. Durability is a two-fold thing too. Not only does the reduced weight save on fuel, it saves on wear and tear on the drivetrain.

So fuel efficiency and durability v. handling.

How do I go from here? Well, how do I use the Jeep?

Normally I don't put a lot of miles on Dusty except for Sunday. Sunday's are always a mock bug-out though. I end up putting 200 miles on her doing my newspaper route. This route covers 100 miles of gravel backroad under various conditions from unplowed drifts and ice to mud pits to loose gravel to smooth dirt with about 125 stops. That's a lot of stop-and-go driving but none of it really qualifies as what people call off road. This means out of the 22,000+ miles I've put on Dusty, I've only really done about 10 miles of actual off-roading.

Rim durability is a non-factor now, so drivetrain and fuel v. handling.

To fit larger tires, I'll be upgrading the drivetrain. My mind will not rest easy if I don't. So the drivetrain will handle whatever I end up using.

Durability is a non-factor. I'm looking at a head-to-head battle between fuel efficiency and handling.

In my mind this comes down to how I drive rather than how I use it.

I accelerate slowly and coast to a stop a lot so I can maximize the fuel efficiency. If I get my foot in it something is on fire or a promise I made is at stake. Getting better mileage is always on my mind and I don't think I do badly either, getting 17-18mpg on my paper routes and 20-22mpg highway.

I also don't like losing momentum, taking corners fast. When I'm on my route I will whipsaw the steering wheel around, fighting to keep Dusty pointed the right direction because I'm on a deadline and deadlines don't care about what shape the road is in. Sometimes it's invigorating and othertimes it's nerve-wracking.

Nerve-wracking.

18" rims I think.

-------

How close were the two rims? Extremely. Fuel efficiency is vitally important, but where and how I drive puts more emphasis on the handling in bad conditions so given that, I don't see any other choice. Take the paper route out of the equation and 17" rims are the right choice for me all day long and twice on Sunday. It's not even close.

This is going to cost money. I need to address the amount of fuel I carry with me just to make sure I'm not going to freeze if I end up stuck at 2am in the middle of nowhere. Upgrades to the drivetrain will have to happen a bit quicker as well. Fuel prices aren't going down because there's only so much oil in the ground. My tire choices are going to be limited as well because 17" rims are far more popular. Wheels and tires will both cost me more money and that's a $500 extra I have to spend every 25,000-30,000 miles and it will be more difficult to sell the used tires. The trade-offs, better handling, bigger brake rotors, and appearence, are worth it to me. Only just, but there you have it.


EtA: I honestly rethought the entire choice here. Back when I agonized over tires and wheels for a week I went back and forth on 17-18" a lot. This is exactly what it ended up boiling down to and how I got it down to those 2 things though. It's not the right choice for everyone. Hell, it's not the right choice for most folk but until I give up doing the papers, and I don't see that happening anytime soon, it's right for me.

tl;dr - because I'm getting 18" rims, that's why.

[KJ4VOV]

One thing I didn't see you address in the wheel choice post, except indirectly in the additional cost comment towards the end, is difficulty in finding replacement tires and/or rims when needed. While this might be no more than an annoyance now (and bigger hit on the wallet), as we sit here pre-PAW, all bets are off when your BOV actually gets used as your BOV, if you follow my drift. In a SHTF situation, PAW, or what have you, what do you do when you need a couple of tires or a replacement rim? Remember, reliability is only part of the equation when planning a BOV, readily available replacement parts is also a major factor. "Oddball" size rims and tires might look good, but could just cost you your life in an emergency.

[Tater Raider]

One thing I didn't see you address in the wheel choice post, except indirectly in the additional cost comment towards the end, is difficulty in finding replacement tires and/or rims when needed. While this might be no more than an annoyance now (and bigger hit on the wallet), as we sit here pre-PAW, all bets are off when your BOV actually gets used as your BOV, if you follow my drift. In a SHTF situation, PAW, or what have you, what do you do when you need a couple of tires or a replacement rim? Remember, reliability is only part of the equation when planning a BOV, readily available replacement parts is also a major factor. "Oddball" size rims and tires might look good, but could just cost you your life in an emergency.

With one set of tires I mostly agree with you. If I own 2 sets I am on the fence. If both sets of tires are mounted I must very respectfully disagree. Assuming each set of tires is good for 25,000-30,000 miles before reselling used, this gives me 50,000 miles plus in a ZPAW. Fuel will be the much, much larger issue in any case and that's on the agenda as well.

I figure it on 3 different crisis levels:

• SHTF: local event like a tornado - doesn't matter because it's temporary. Plus the Jeep may be parked in a tree.
• TEOTWAWKI: Regional devestation like Katrina - I have a spare tire to vamoose and will be alright once well clear.
• PAW: Yellowstone Caldera blows - gas is going to be a bigger issue than tires, and with 2 sets of tires keeping the vehicle running is still a bigger issue.

As I wrote this I had an idea though, and not a bad one. I could get 17" alloy rims for the summer tires and 18" steel rims for the winter tires, figure which works better for me, and resell the 17" rims if the 18" are what I think they are.

I'm going to think on this one more.

[KJ4VOV]

I'm going to think on this one more.

Exactly what I hoped you'd say.

Also, while you're thinking about it, what are your plans in the event of a flat? Finding a shop to fix a tire might be problematic, and abandoning a perfectly good tire/rim that just has a glass cut or a nail in it would be pretty dumb. Are you set up to do tire repairs? Can you do them safely?

Just something more to consider.

[Tater Raider]

Powertrain warranty is good for 5 years/100,000 miles so no big tires until I've met that criteria... 4 more years to go... I think I'm going to use the 2 sets of tires with different rims and use that to make the final call, so if I get 33,000 miles per set I'm good on this.

On the other, I have a full size spare, a tire plug kit, and experience using the kit. I do not have on-board air.

...yet