Combat tactics 101: Melee weapon choice

[Malleolus]

I'm off my game I'll admit that I'm no expert in that regards, I only have what I've seen to go off of. They were shots against ballistic test dummies that didn't have de bones, so the test was... skewed.

[mantis]

I'm off my game I'll admit that I'm no expert in that regards, I only have what I've seen to go off of. They were shots against ballistic test dummies that didn't have de bones, so the test was... skewed.

That effect that you see on the gel is cavitation. When a bullet passes through a body, it creates a permenant and temporary caviation. Permenant caviation is the cavity or hole left by the physical projectile. The temprary cavitation, caused by the shock wave of the bullet impacting the tissue is several times the diameter of the bullet itself and it causes extensive destruction to tissues.

[Carl M Neit]

I know I'm a late on this one but here is my melee/zombie combat kit:





I think I have all my bases covered...

[squinty]

Belongs in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7206&start=48

[foxx]

I hope those are tactical boxers

Protecting the identity of your dog, good idea.

[Carl M Neit]

UDT Shorts actually, it keeps the important areas cool and they don't restrict movement - paramount in a melee scenario. Also, if the fight should go into the water, I would be properly dressed.

Dog facial recognition exists so I wouldn't want to be identified by his features. He has really good zombie drive and he's almost completely ready to help during a melee. His primary purpose is to watch my flanks while I am more focused on the closer threats.

[Malleolus]

UDT Shorts actually, it keeps the important areas cool and they don't restrict movement - paramount in a melee scenario. Also, if the fight should go into the water, I would be properly dressed.

Dog facial recognition exists so I wouldn't want to be identified by his features. He has really good zombie drive and he's almost completely ready to help during a melee. His primary purpose is to watch my flanks while I am more focused on the closer threats.

Is that not your dog in your profile pic? Not trying to be combative but they are of the same breed and coloring.

[Maverick299]

You look prepared, just turn the volume up on Spongebob and the zombies will simply start offing themselves!

[Malleolus]

Is that a remote analoge solenoid to turn your tactical light on and off without having to break your grip?

[Carl M Neit]

Dog in the profile pic is just a google image for a Belgian Malinois.

The switch to the light is taped to the grip. A little pressure with my non-shooting hand fingertips turn it on let up the pressure it turns off.

[Malleolus]

Ah yes, that makes more sense mantis tyvm. Anyway, the greater the cavitation the greater the chance of getting a killing shot on a zed. I know people swear by the .22, but to me it's just to small a caliber to rely on in this particular situation. Personal preference I suppose.

Back on topic:

Would anyone carry a trench spike?

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Ah yes, that makes more sense mantis tyvm. Anyway, the greater the cavitation the greater the chance of getting a killing shot on a zed. I know people swear by the .22, but to me it's just to small a caliber to rely on in this particular situation. Personal preference I suppose.

Back on topic:

Would anyone carry a trench spike?

To punch through WWI-era steel helmets.Not much other use, as the edge was shit, the "knuckles" heavy and unwieldy, and the holster was shit.

[Malleolus]

Ah yes, that makes more sense mantis tyvm. Anyway, the greater the cavitation the greater the chance of getting a killing shot on a zed. I know people swear by the .22, but to me it's just to small a caliber to rely on in this particular situation. Personal preference I suppose.

Back on topic:

Would anyone carry a trench spike?

To punch through WWI-era steel helmets.Not much other use, as the edge was shit, the "knuckles" heavy and unwieldy, and the holster was shit.

Do you have any dimensions on those btw? I've always been interested in making a hand forged authentic version, but decent dimensions are hard to come by and even then they vary.

On a related note, yeah I can see where you are coming with that deduction. They were made using a stock removal process and were made generic, and obviously for a person with smaller hands they were far too large and a person with large hands they were too small, in either case they would be un-wieldly. The knuckles were made with the extra weight so they didn't have to invest in better alloys, which would have made them much lighter in many cases but more expensive. They sheathed a spike? That's unusual in my book but hey, whatever floats their boat. Hand forging packs the majority of the metal into itself, creating a much denser and stronger edge than stock removal ever could. I would think that a properly made version that was made to fit the wielder would make it more popular, so that's why I was wanting to give her a go.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

The weight in the knuckles (brass, IIRC) was so that when in/on the hand, it could be used as a knuckleduster. The blade with it's spiked shape was designed to penetrate the helmet, not for anything else. The sheathe was to carry it until needed, since it was an infantry issue weapon.

[squinty]

All the historical knuckleknives you could want, in quality (sometimes better than the original mass produced) handmade reproductions.

http://www.plowshareforge.com/

I always thought they were carried point down, "icepick" style. The idea was to throw a "palm down" hook or ridgehand at the opponents chin to raise or turn his head, and either the blade would cross his throat as you followed through, or once the hook was completed you were in a position to hammer the point into neck/face/helmet.

Ugly suckers, and illegal in skads of places.

[Malleolus]

The weight in the knuckles (brass, IIRC) was so that when in/on the hand, it could be used as a knuckleduster. The blade with it's spiked shape was designed to penetrate the helmet, not for anything else. The sheathe was to carry it until needed, since it was an infantry issue weapon.

But, you are trying to punch through a previously humans skull. I meant no disrespect with the whole sheathe statement, I just figured they'd have a simple hoop ring to slide it into since the blade was... well, shit for cutting anything including butter.

[Roger Brough]

At first I did not understand, but then I tried to and was sickened...

[Doctorr Fabulous]

The weight in the knuckles (brass, IIRC) was so that when in/on the hand, it could be used as a knuckleduster. The blade with it's spiked shape was designed to penetrate the helmet, not for anything else. The sheathe was to carry it until needed, since it was an infantry issue weapon.

But, you are trying to punch through a previously humans skull. I meant no disrespect with the whole sheathe statement, I just figured they'd have a simple hoop ring to slide it into since the blade was... well, shit for cutting anything including butter.

Infantry movement+anything but a sheathe with retention strap=failure.

There was a time when everyone in 2/8 owned or carried a trench spike.

Thank Cthulhu that's over. What, did 1/8 tease them until they stopped? In all seriousness, that is about as useful an anecdote as looking at the forum member who's deployed EDC consists of SIX different knives, an M9, and no rifle.

Just because someone in uniform does it, doesn't mean it has any use or combat application. Malleous:If you do craft one with a decent edge (maybe some new geometry) and sheathe, be sure to do us a coconut test.

[foxx]

Jeremy Horton makes some awesome knives, he's got a sub-forum on Bladeforums.com These are modern, single piece of steel, and mean looking. Here's two of his..

[azrael99]

those are gorgeous,

unfortunately, those hand-guard are considered as brass knuckle here, but it seem that D-guard are ok here, because they are used on saber and machete.

my only choice would be to get the new 2012 cutlass machete


the D-guard is actually part of the full tang handle but covert with polymer.

i could cut the blade to make it shorter and give it a bowie tip with a false edge and make my own confederate D-guard bowie

[Malleolus]

The weight in the knuckles (brass, IIRC) was so that when in/on the hand, it could be used as a knuckleduster. The blade with it's spiked shape was designed to penetrate the helmet, not for anything else. The sheathe was to carry it until needed, since it was an infantry issue weapon.

But, you are trying to punch through a previously humans skull. I meant no disrespect with the whole sheathe statement, I just figured they'd have a simple hoop ring to slide it into since the blade was... well, shit for cutting anything including butter.

Infantry movement+anything but a sheathe with retention strap=failure.

There was a time when everyone in 2/8 owned or carried a trench spike.

Thank Cthulhu that's over. What, did 1/8 tease them until they stopped? In all seriousness, that is about as useful an anecdote as looking at the forum member who's deployed EDC consists of SIX different knives, an M9, and no rifle.

Just because someone in uniform does it, doesn't mean it has any use or combat application. Malleous:If you do craft one with a decent edge (maybe some new geometry) and sheathe, be sure to do us a coconut test.

10-4

[squinty]

The weight in the knuckles (brass, IIRC) was so that when in/on the hand, it could be used as a knuckleduster. The blade with it's spiked shape was designed to penetrate the helmet, not for anything else. The sheathe was to carry it until needed, since it was an infantry issue weapon.

But, you are trying to punch through a previously humans skull. I meant no disrespect with the whole sheathe statement, I just figured they'd have a simple hoop ring to slide it into since the blade was... well, shit for cutting anything including butter.

Infantry movement+anything but a sheathe with retention strap=failure.

There was a time when everyone in 2/8 owned or carried a trench spike.

Thank Cthulhu that's over. What, did 1/8 tease them until they stopped? In all seriousness, that is about as useful an anecdote as looking at the forum member who's deployed EDC consists of SIX different knives, an M9, and no rifle.

Just because someone in uniform does it, doesn't mean it has any use or combat application. Malleous:If you do craft one with a decent edge (maybe some new geometry) and sheathe, be sure to do us a coconut test.

10-4

Don't do a coconut test with this kind of trench knife though...

The "Finger Guillotine"

[shiddymunkie]

I don't know...I think I'd be more comfortable with something a bit more practical (and served multiple purposes). I mean, a sword or battle axe is cool and all...but there is many-a-way to melee a zombie. Hell, look at a simple hammer:

- Small
- Light-weight
- Fits on a belt
- Simple one-handed, one-strike kills (blunt or pointy end)
- Can easily carry one in each hand for double the mayhem
- Doesn't require sharpening
- Doesn't require years of training to use effectively
- Can be used to reinforce/fortify your hold-ups
- The back can be used like a crowbar to crack open doors, cabinets, windows, locks, etc.
- Can be thrown effectively with practice
- Can be found almost anywhere
- Dirt cheap / practically disposable

The only thing missing from a standard hammer would be a blade of some sort. Not sure if a chopping blade would be preferable to a cutting blade, but I think an actual cutting blade would be used more often than an axe-like blade. So, in short, if someone makes a hammer with a knife built into the handle, that's the winner.

[squinty]

My melee wepping of choice has long been a heavy, long hafted framing or roofing hammer, with flat claws.

The hammer/blade combo you envision is personified by the lowly carpenter's hatchet. Mines a Stanley FatMax.



It's never killed a zed, but it's handy around the house and the campsite.