Virgin Gardener

[Roger Brough]

P7. I grew up working for farmers. Grain-fed beef, soybeans, corn, and the cash-crop for those times - tobacco. My family didn't farm but we were surrounded by large farms. Our garden though was approximately 2 acres. My father has cut it back to an acre but when I visited last year I returned with a truckload of tomatoes and squash, so all of my neighbors got a sackload. Since that time, I have moved many times and learned from others. I have almost always had an herb garden except for a couple of years when I was more focused on the sea. It is a simple as using your windows. The tomato is happier with cilantro nearby. And what is life without onions? The past few years I have had a herb garden both along the back of my house and on rails around the deck. Around and off the deck, there were nothing but tomatoes and peppers last year. One little cherry tomato plant looked as if I had burned it from too much rabbit pellets, but then it really took off. Every single night, it seemed, we picked a large bowl off the bush to slice up and add to a fresh salad. Several times, I went on walks and collected greens, and then added the tomatoes to the top. My family loved it, but then we also eat a lot of squirrel. (More and more people are catching back on to squirrel meals, although it is likely that all of their grandparents that lived through the depression grew to like squirrel gravy.) I also added an acre of lima beans last year. Allow yourself to get real hungry and then set a big pot of them on boil. Once they are soft, melt some butter over them and then add a pinch of salt. Eat them with all by themselves with a big soup spoon. You'll soon see why they are a favorite.

I did some research on raised bed gardens and determined that after buying the supplies I needed, it made more sense to buy a kit. So, I purchased one that had 2 4x4 plastic sided walls, stakes, weed sheet and plastic covers. In late April/early May I plan to have a family day and create/plant a colorful work of art. The secret, I believe, is in the soil mixture. Still, although experienced, I still read voraciously and glean small tricks and skills from others. My only issue is the amount of wildlife that is attracted to what I grow. This is not an issue though, as protein is an essential part of the diet.

[prepper7]

You people w/ your 'endless tomato' stories, you make me wanna...Waaaah!

You've obviously had lots of experience, inherited some, too. Your garden bed project sounds ambitious.

<snip> I also added an acre of lima beans last year. Allow yourself to get real hungry and then set a big pot of them on boil. Once they are soft, melt some butter over them and then add a pinch of salt. Eat them with all by themselves with a big soup spoon. You'll soon see why they are a favorite.

I'd have to be PAW-hungry. Real PAW-hungry

The secret, I believe, is in the soil mixture.

I dunno, I think perhaps this is the secret.

Still, although experienced, I still read voraciously and glean small tricks and skills from others.

[zombiepreparation]

Ah mold. Since neither the vinegar nor the cinnamon seemed to be halting it I did some more research to find any other 'remedy' I might have in my apartment to give me time to find the German chamomile tea for that remedy and found this: Gardening with Hydrogen Peroxide. Looked for any more internet info that would contradict or agree with it. The info looked okay and not harmful to me so I mixed up some with water in the amount directed and did some more spraying on my poor little garden that has now become my poor little test plants. All because of white fuzzy mold.

After today's sprayings I can see where the mold is/was? but no mold 'seems' to be growing. At least I'm not aware of it growing if it is. Am I seeing the dead mold 'stuff' like you can see where mold grew on a wall or ceiling after it has been killed with bleach? Right now I just don't know. But the fuzzy hasn't increased today as far as I can see.

The radishes have charged up with a vengeance! There are beets that are beginning to show. The little baby lettuce looks strong at this point. There are some green onions just emerging.

There are three tomato seedlings. I haven't yet decided what to do with them. They don't have that second set of leaves, I have already planted beet seeds in their pots since I changed my mind about trying to use 9' tall plants on my balcony that gets little direct light, and they seem to be the only three out of all the original tomato seeds I planted that are growing. If this continues to be the case then I know the tomato seeds are not viable and I'll toss 'em in the compost. If any more happen to grow I'll give the seeds to an in-ground gardener to use.

The spinach is doing what the tomatoes are doing; out of the shotgun planting of questionable seeds only three spinach plants have begun to grow. It is nothing definitive, just information for me at this point.

So I know the green onions, both lettuce types, both radish types, and the beet seeds are viable. It was a quieter gardening day in Lake Wobegone even if it was drizzly.

[zombiepreparation]

Sunny day. Hydrogen peroxide didn't stop mold (which is still growing after all...just slower). The German chamomile tea is my next experiment. I thinned the radishes to the requisite 3" separation and ate the pulled plants for lunch. More spinach has emerged and the lettuce still looks strong. Other than the couple of existing tomato seedlings already up the rest are duds so into the compost the rest of the seeds go. More onions are popping up but not more radishes yet.

I've been studying watering needs of each plant today. Like bell peppers for instance; they need one cup a week until the plants get some size to them, then the water need doubles. They will stop bearing fruit when the nights stay at 75 degrees & over and/or the days stay 90 & over, BUT they will begin bearing fruit again when cooler weather comes. I did not know that. When I had my garden a few years ago I thought they had just finished for the season so I ignored them after that, never watered them again.

Radishes and parsley need the soil to stay 'moist' (not wet) between good deep waterings or they will get bitter or something, and radishes can get root maggots because regular flies like to lay eggs by their stems because of the moisture. And what does mold need to thrive? Yup, moisture. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Spinach is a spring/fall crop and goes to seed when it gets summer hot, however, the 'container' can be brought into the house to grow in good light and it can produce throughout the hot months, to be set outside again when fall temperatures break.

And.... I notice that the soil in my containers dries out fast, much faster than my regular garden did. So I googled container gardening and watering. Yup, outdoor containers need much more water to produce healthy/tasty crops. Confuse me much? I'm already fighting mold in them, they're drying out faster than a regular garden, and they need to be watered more?

Big storm and big hail expected in about an hour. My respect for farmers is growing exponentially.

[zombiepreparation]

Found the German chamomile tea today, a bag full for $1.48. Am cooling the brewed tea at this time. I found this interesting site called Golden Harvest Organics which talks about all the 'remedies' I have tried so far [edit: including ] cinnamon as being useful so I am feeling better that I have at least not damaged my container garden so far in my 'experiments' and the site speaks highly of chamomile tea.

"1. Chamomile Spray: Chamomile tea is an excellent preventative for damping-off. Use on seed starting soil, seedlings and in any humid planting area. Chamomile is a concentrated source of calcium, potash and sulfur. The sulfur is a fungus fighter. This can also be used as a seed soak prior to planting.
To make: Pour 2 cups boiling water over 1/4 cup chamomile blossoms. Let steep until cool and strain into a spray bottle. Use as needed. This keeps for about a week before going rancid. Spray to prevent damping off and anytime you see any fuzzy white growth on the soil. Chamomile blossoms can be purchased at health food stores and usually grocery stores."

Fuzzy white growth on the soil. That's my garden. Poor garden. If only the fuzzy white growth was food for me I'd already have a thriving garden going.

Sunny day so far. Happily and oddly last night's hail storm hit to the east, south, north, and north east of us but skipped us entirely. Even produced a tornado on the ground southwest of us. I am counting this as good luck to give balance to my mold war being waged.

Lots more spinach has emerged today. I luv spinach. The two plants I'm really pulling for are the spinach and the parsley (which I've developed a real hunger for over the last few months). These foods are two of my absolute favorites. Please please please grow grow grow... and taste really good too. Please.

P7 (prepper7) posted this site Don’t Throw it Out: Grow this Vegetable from Trash a little earlier in this Virgin Gardener thread and I have been waiting to get some green onions, celery, leeks, and chives to see if I can do this.

"I have two celery plants growing from the roots of store bought celery. They are both about a foot tall. The stems are about as big around as my little finger and have beautiful green leaves. They are the perfect size for when I need just a little celery for flavoring tuna/chicken/ham salad or to add to salads or other dishes for crunch. Often the store bought regular sized stalks would end up pithy or wilty before we could eat it up."

--and--

"Onions that start to sprout get stuck into the ground or a pot for their green onion tops that are added to cottage cheese, salads, baked potatoes, etc. Same with garlic buds that show new growth, into the ground and harvest the green tops."

Yesterday I 'afforded' green onions and celery since they were on sale big time. (I luv peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with green onions) The onions have been soaking overnight and will be planted today. I will prepare the celery bottom today and tomorrow (and eat my fill of celery & peanut butter for the next couple of days), then plant that too and see what happens. Couldn't find chives with their little root part still there and the leeks price was more than I thought I should afford at this time. I will keep an eye out for a better price if my onions and celery actually do start re-growth and become sustainable.

[zombiepreparation]

The dill has broken ground with a flurry of funny looking thin little 'leaves' or whatever they are called, the part we cut and eat. Compared to the other seedlings they look so tiny and helpless. (The helpless part is me anthropomorphizing them.)

All the spinach came above ground today. I cooked up some frozen vegetables I have had in the freezer for at least a year, started to toss the bag they came in, and remembered that article comment and P7 talking about making planters out of these bags. So now I have a new quart size planter to plant or transplant something into. I would have never thought of this on my own. Now, as I learn more about survival preparedness in ZS making such a move seems... smart. "What if I needed to plant in a container and didn't have one? What would I use that I might find blowing around?" kind of thing.

And while I was typing that last sentence my mind said "What about a traveling dish pan?" I know a baggy could be used although 'drying' baggies is a skill that doesn't come easy to me yet and this frozen veggie bag has a pleated bottom so it sits flat and it doesn't keep trying to lay flat against itself like baggies do.

The beets that are coming up are puzzling me. I think they are the beets anyway; two stems from one seed like something I read said and then you cut one stem off at soil level, but there are two other tiny seedlings with beet colored stems. As I look at the container now I see that the beets are actually not coming up everywhere they are planted after all. Only in about 1/3 of this very large container so far. A puzzle.

I doused the 'garden' with the chamomile tea about 2pm and have enough left over for about two weeks of spraying although the Golden Harvest Organics site says the tea will go rancid after a week.

The 'containers with dirt' are beginning to resemble a container garden today. And today I learned a new phrase: Damping off. This is not a good thing and this mold or fungus or another one could attack my babies in the containers and cause plant distruction and loss of food.... even after they get mature. Needless to say staying vigilent about this MOLD thing will be important this whole growing season. Was it a mold that caused that historical and famous potato crop failure in Ireland?

Damping off:
A given seed can become infected with a fungus, often causing it to darken and soften. This can kill it before the seedling emerges, or cause the seedling to be weak, sometimes getting "wet" patches on it which decay until it falls apart.

Likewise, a seedling can be infected after it sprouts, before it leaves the ground, or even after it appears well-developed, the latter often resulting in the plant mysteriously thinning right where it touches the ground, until its stem at that point rots and it falls over.

Causes:
A number of different fungi cause these problems, including:
**Botryotinia species appear primarily as blossom blights and fruit rots but also as leaf spots and bulb rots in the field and in stored products. Also known as "gray mold". (....MOLD.... ug!)

**Macrophomina phaseoli (IT produces spores too. MOLD...ug!)

**Phytophthora (another MOLD)
**etc. (MOLD)
**etc. (MOLD)
**etc. (MOLD)

Prevention:
Damping off can be prevented in many different ways, including germination in drier conditions with better air circulation (but this slows germination), starting seedlings in sterilized soil, and/or spraying the soil with an anti-fungal known to work for this purpose, either a commercial one or a homemade solution, such as one made from chamomile tea or garlic.

Chamomile tea. How about that.

[prepper7]

<snip> My respect for farmers is growing exponentially.

More and more often, I find myself thinking the same thing.

[prepper7]

The dill has broken ground with a flurry of funny looking thin little 'leaves' or whatever they are called, the part we cut and eat. Compared to the other seedlings they look so tiny and helpless. (The helpless part is me anthropomorphizing them.)

Dill does look quite fragile. I tried a bit of one of the seedlings and thought, "wow, that's tasty. I will snip some of that on my salads!" And try not to anthropomorphize your plants, they hate it.

My grandmother gave me the baggie drying tip: slip them over a wooden spoon (that's standing upright).

I doused the 'garden' with the chamomile tea about 2pm and have enough left over for about two weeks of spraying although the Golden Harvest Organics site says the tea will go rancid after a week.

Well, next time you can make less, but can't you refrigerate the tea?

Damping off can be prevented in many different ways, including germination in drier conditions with better air circulation (but this slows germination), starting seedlings in sterilized soil, and/or spraying the soil with an anti-fungal known to work for this purpose, either a commercial one or a homemade solution, such as one made from chamomile tea or garlic.[/color][/i]

Thx for posting this. I lost a couple of seedlings to (what I think is) damping-off, so I'm going to get some chamomile tea. I also have several types of seeds that should be soaked before being planted.

[Zen Chameleon]

Well, next time you can make less, but can't you refrigerate the tea?

I liked it warmed up with a little lemon and honey before bedtime

[zombiepreparation]

A tried and true low budget method for taking care of aphids and white flies is to use a a few drops of Dawn in a spray bottle full of water. Neem or Tea tree oil is even better. Just go out and spray down the infested area every day until they all die. Doesn't hurt the plants.

I feel like 'the mighty hunter' this morning! I have been storing in my mind to use later the info you posted but with all the mold focus it had slipped to the back burner of things I want to do. Today though I had already done my mold patrol, planted and chamomiled my store bought green onions, stirred my compost tea, and was in my apartment looking out the sliding glass door that leads to my balcony when I saw it.... the 'miniature' flying thing I keep thinking is nesting in the soil around my plants to give my containers maggots or something that will eat the roots.... and I acted!

Quickly I ran to the kitchen and loaded a spray bottle with Dawn & water and stealthily eased the door aside to slip through without alerting the flying nesting thing of my deadly approach to keep it at its ease in continuing to do nefarious things to my container. I moved slowly toward it with spray bottle readied in firing position in case I had to act fast. Slowly.... slowly.... When I was within mere inches of the dastard I steadied myself, breathed in, and as I breathed out I squeezed the squirt bottle trigger and hit it dead center. It never stood a chance.

I have now bagged my first garden pest! Its miniature carcass is now being held for all to see in a snack size baggy. I am the mighty hunter!

[prepper7]

Well, next time you can make less, but can't you refrigerate the tea?

I liked it warmed up with a little lemon and honey before bedtime

Brilliant!

[prepper7]

<snip>
I have now bagged my first garden pest! Its miniature carcass is now being held for all to see in a snack size baggy. I am the mighty hunter!

And excellent trigger control, too.

I've learnt (the hard-frustrating-expensive way) about the need for vigilance and regular, close inspection. So whenever I'm working on the (micro)farm I take the time to take a close look at the plants. I always pay special attention to the stems and the undersides of the leaves.

As I leaned in for a close look at the bibb lettuce this week, I found myself nose-to-nose with a scary, grasshopper-y / spider-y thing. After stumbling backwards (and yes, shrieking like a little girl), I readied my Pump Bottle Mister to administer the "Jet o' Death" (okay, perhaps not death, exactly... more like dislodging--but hey, it works! Then a moment of clarity: this insect looks rather carnivore-y (to other insects). Can this be the long awaited Kwisatz Haderach? Wait, that's not right. Beneficial... predator insects... that's it! Is this the Death Dealer come to lay waste to (and its eggs in) my enemies? I dunno, perhaps. So I left it alone (and took a pic to aid in identification).

A week ago, I was snipping mint for tea is when I discovered that the mint that I bought to deter pests was CRAAAAAAWLINGGGGG with aphid!!! They had converted the plant stems into superhighways of destruction! What had I done wrong? I'd forgotten to follow protocol. I had not washed the new plant before bringing it onto the farm. I had decided that all "foreign" plants would get their foliage well-hosed (my handheld shower is perfect for this) before being installed in "balcony quarantine". After squelching to urge to 1. be sick and 2. fling the plant into the (annoying, inconsiderate) neighbour's garden, I trotted to the bath and fired-up the shower. I had that creepy "things are crawling on me" feeling for days, but the mint has been aphid-free ever since.



eta: better punctuation

[zombiepreparation]

<snip>
I have now bagged my first garden pest! Its miniature carcass is now being held for all to see in a snack size baggy. I am the mighty hunter!

And excellent trigger control, too.

Thank ya very much. <taking a bow>

I've learnt (the hard-frustrating-expensive way) about the need for vigilance and regular, close inspection. So whenever I'm working on the (micro)farm I take the time to take a close look at the plants. I always pay special attention to the stems and the undersides of the leaves.

As I leaned in for a close look at the bibb lettuce this week, I found myself nose-to-nose with a scary, grasshopper-y / spider-y thing. After stumbling backwards (and yes, shrieking like a little girl), I readied my Pump Bottle Mister to administer the "Jet o' Death" (okay, perhaps not death, exactly... more like dislodging--but hey, it works! Then a moment of clarity: this insect looks rather carnivore-y (to other insects). Can this be the long awaited Kwisatz Haderach? Wait, that's not right. Beneficial... predator insects... that's it! Is this the Death Dealer come to lay waste to (and its eggs in) my enemies? I dunno, perhaps. So I left it alone (and took a pic to aid in identification).

A week ago, I was snipping mint for tea is when I discovered that the mint that I bought to deter pests was CRAAAAAAWLINGGGGG with aphid!!! They had converted the plant stems into superhighways of destruction! What had I done wrong? I'd forgotten to follow protocol. I had not washed the new plant before bringing it onto the farm. I had decided that all "foreign" plants would get their foliage well-hosed (my handheld shower is perfect for this) before being installed in "balcony quarantine". After squelching to urge to 1. be sick and 2. fling the plant into the (annoying, inconsiderate) neighbour's garden, I trotted to the bath and fired-up the shower. I had that creepy "things are crawling on me" feeling for days, but the mint has been aphid-free ever since.

Remind me again why we're doing this.

Can this be the long awaited Kwisatz Haderach?

Priceless.

[zombiepreparation]

Today's mold report: Mold

Mold remedy du jour: Water, baking soda, Dawn, vinegar, cooking oil from another online recipe.

Results: Seedlings did not like this recipe and appear to be leaving this life for a better one in the sky.

[prepper7]

<snip> Seedlings did not like this recipe and appear to be leaving this life for a better one in the sky.

I'm sorry.

[zombiepreparation]

Awakened this morning to living growing white fuzzy mold taking over my garden. Everything must now go. I see I am not educated enough to win this battle and must admit defeat and move forward as best I can. I'm going to have a big cup of coffee, gird up my loins, and get to work.

[zombiepreparation]

Yesterday I bagged up the considerable amount of molded container dirt, carried it down, and put the tied bags into the dumpster. That hurt on several levels, the foremost being all that soil that now goes to the landfill. It was the consensus of myself and the several others I took opinions from that putting that soil in the plant gardens around the building posed the opportunity of the spores traveling to the garden plots and taking hold there. We had our entire building allotted garden plots fail last year because of a blight that attacked it.

It was also a lot of heavy work so on that level I'm feeling it today.

I scrubbed and sterilized about half the containers yesterday but since today is hot (tomorrow too) I am delaying scrubbing and sterilizing the rest until the weather breaks. After I finish all the containers I will move on to scrubbing and sterilizing the entire (but tiny) balcony anywhere I can reach it.

I am fortunate the company I purchased the soil from has made a decision to do a refund so I will begin again sometime late into next week with new soil. I am doubly fortunate that when I called the hardware store where I purchased the soil to report to them that some of the soil bags may have been heavily mold contaminated, just for their files, they assured me that if the company had not chosen to make the refund they would have done so themselves. Nice.

[prepper7]

How to Garden Advice has a wealth of useful information. For each vegetable, fruit, or herb, they offer not only the standard growing info, but tips on using, preserving, storage, and even recipes. They have a "companion planting" section that is essential for someone looking to design the best garden layout. The companion planting chart in that section is a wonderful reference. They also solicit and display tips from their readers.

[prepper7]

A fun beginner's course on growing herbs. She even provides pdf "handouts".

A bump for this. Module 6 just began and I've learned that binomial nomenclature, the Latin naming convention, has an extremely practical use for someone trying to select a specific plant. A neophyte gardener trying to buy sage for culinary use might not realize that there are ornamental versions completely unsuitable for cooking. By knowing the Latin names, a gardener can confidently purchase seeds or plants.

[zombiepreparation]

A fun beginner's course on growing herbs. She even provides pdf "handouts".

A bump for this. Module 6 just began and I've learned that binomial nomenclature, the Latin naming convention, has an extremely practical use for someone trying to select a specific plant. A neophyte gardener trying to buy sage for culinary use might not realize that there are ornamental versions completely unsuitable for cooking. By knowing the Latin names, a gardener can confidently purchase seeds or plants.

A timely bump. I had forgotten about it, ya know having a brain overrun by mold this last week or so, so thanks.

As for today in my own balcony garden: I washed and sanitized more containers that were being used as planters and/or watering containers and began my sterilization of the entire (tiny) balcony itself. I didn't really know how to begin so I just mixed up a spray bottle with clorox & water and just started wetting the place down.

I have been hesitant to sweep for fear of giving spores a route to travel and find new places to nest because we have been having so much wind, so I thought "Just clorox all the fallen dirt on tables and floor of balcony... let it dry, then begin sweeping." I have been leaving my shoes outside the balcony door for fear of bringing the mold indoors to my airplane plants. I tell ya, this mold has spooked me. And, today I see the tub in which my asparagus has happily lived for a couple years now has begun showing evidence of growing mold. That tub had none of this soil I purchased added to it so a spore or two made their way there. Drat. Little buggers. Is there such a thing as a mold pandemic?

My next move is to wash and sterilize the great big pot I've emptied that was going to grow beets and lettuce, take the big tub the asparagus lives in and some garbage bags downstairs where I will empty the now molding dirt into the bags and toss them in the dumpster, transfer the asparagus into a box to bring back upstairs for a warm rinse to minimize contaminating the new soil during re-potting, and put the tub in a garbage bag to toss it into the dumpster. hmmm... never really liked that asparagus tub but as I typed "put the tub <snip> into the dumpster" I was feeling the loss of letting it go for some reason. Ohhhh. I know what it is; after that tub goes there will be nothing that is the same, the past of the balcony will now be gone when the tub goes. Ah me.

[prepper7]

As for today in my own balcony garden: I washed and sanitized more containers that were being used as planters and/or watering containers and began my sterilization of the entire (tiny) balcony itself. <snip> I have been hesitant to sweep for fear of giving spores a route to travel and find new places to nest because we have been having so much wind, so I thought "Just clorox all the fallen dirt on tables and floor of balcony... let it dry, then begin sweeping."

Busy day. You may want to consider re-sanitizing after sweeping (allowing the remaining dust and/or spores to settle). More work, but...

[zombiepreparation]

As for today in my own balcony garden: I washed and sanitized more containers that were being used as planters and/or watering containers and began my sterilization of the entire (tiny) balcony itself. <snip> I have been hesitant to sweep for fear of giving spores a route to travel and find new places to nest because we have been having so much wind, so I thought "Just clorox all the fallen dirt on tables and floor of balcony... let it dry, then begin sweeping."

Busy day. You may want to consider re-sanitizing after sweeping (allowing the remaining dust and/or spores to settle). More work, but...

Will do. And probably more times too... just for good measure.

[slannesh]

<snip> Results: Seedlings did not like this recipe and appear to be leaving this life for a better one in the sky.

Sorry to hear that. It's disheartening for something you worked on to totally fail like that. Been there done that.

Reading the rest of the thread it looks like you've got a good handle on getting started again so I don't have any other advice to offer beyond what already was given. I hope it works out much better next time for you!

Still a few weeks away from getting started here, the temps are up but there's still a lot of snow on the ground

[prepper7]

<snip> Still a few weeks away from getting started here, temps are up but there's still a lot of snow on the ground

Welcome, Slannesh! What do you have planned for your garden this year?