Coneal Carry Questions...

[EricinVirginia]

Hi, my wife and I just completed the conceal carry course here in VA. In the course of doing things and taking the class, we are finding we have a whole lot of questions not addressed by the course.

All of these questions assume that I have a concealed handgun on me and my permit on hand.
1. Get pulled over while driving for some traffic issue. I assume that you don't have to tell the LEO you're carrying right?
2. Get pulled over and have to step out of the car and LEO sees the concealed weapon and asks about it. I don't have to show the gun, I just have to show my permit correct?
3. I'm in a restaurant or some other location where it is allowed, or at least as far as I can tell (no signs etc) and a LEO confronts me about it... I just have to show the permit correct?
...get asked to leave; do I have to?
...a nonLEO asks about it - deny or reassure?
...someone freaks out?
4. I walk into a gun shop... now I've observed that most shops here straight up ask "Are you...?" and if you have a firearm anywhere they'll tag it, but if they don't ask, don't tell?
5. Wife picked up her new Ruger LC9 and was fitting it to her holster, in the car, in front of the gun shop, in front of a county sherriff who was standing just up from us and could see her. I will freely admit that even though we both had CWPs on us and no ammo on hand, it made me nervous.

Are there conventions for these kinds of things and what other "odd" situations might arise a law-abiding citizen may want to consider...? Thanks in advance for any replies and advice.

[alptraum]

Hi, my wife and I just completed the conceal carry course here in VA. In the course of doing things and taking the class, we are finding we have a whole lot of questions not addressed by the course.

Almost all of that is addressed by state law. I am familiar with the laws in my state (don't have to notify police in my state) and the others I travel in, but I am not familiar with VA. I'm pretty sure there are some VA permit holders on here though so they can probably chime in. It would behove you to read your state law in regards to CC and weapons offenses in it's entirety no matter what.

1. Get pulled over while driving for some traffic issue. I assume that you don't have to tell the LEO you're carrying right?

As I said, it depends on the state. Some require it and some don't. Having said that I would inform even though I am not required to. In my state they know I have a permit when they pull up my license. Also police tend to react in an energetic manner if they see a weapon on or near you (if your weapon happens to print for instance) they did not know about.

2. Get pulled over and have to step out of the car and LEO sees the concealed weapon and asks about it. I don't have to show the gun, I just have to show my permit correct?

At that point I would suggest doing whatever they tell you to do. If they act inappropriately or are unfamiliar with some aspect of the law you can always follow up with their supervisor.

3. I'm in a restaurant or some other location where it is allowed, or at least as far as I can tell (no signs etc) and a LEO confronts me about it... I just have to show the permit correct?
...get asked to leave; do I have to?
...a nonLEO asks about it - deny or reassure?
...someone freaks out?

Mostly covered by 1 and 2. As far as getting asked to leave it depends on who's asking. In my state you can ignore many of the no weapon signs (there are some you can not) . However if somebody employed by the place you are at asks you to leave you must. If you don't leave you are now trespassing
.

4. I walk into a gun shop... now I've observed that most shops here straight up ask "Are you...?" and if you have a firearm anywhere they'll tag it, but if they don't ask, don't tell?

Not telling is the whole point of a concealed weapon


Just to reiterate though, read your state laws in their entirety. Most of the information you want is in there

[nimdabew]

1. Get pulled over while driving for some traffic issue. I assume that you don't have to tell the LEO you're carrying right?

In Washington, there is no law requirement to tell them. I do not know about VA. Cops like to be told though.

I grab the steering wheel and say something like "Yes officer, I have my license, but I am carrying a concealed pistol in/on (where it is). How would you like to proceed." That lets them know you don't want to hide anything and you are willing to cooperate. Keep your hands visible the entire time.

2. Get pulled over and have to step out of the car and LEO sees the concealed weapon and asks about it. I don't have to show the gun, I just have to show my permit correct?

It isn't concealed if someone spots it.

3. I'm in a restaurant or some other location where it is allowed, or at least as far as I can tell (no signs etc) and a LEO confronts me about it... I just have to show the permit correct?
...get asked to leave; do I have to?
...a nonLEO asks about it - deny or reassure?
...someone freaks out?

See number 2. VA might have a law where they can ask you to leave. In WA, it is similar to this process.

1. Restaurant owner says no firearms allowed. You tell them to go sod off.
2. Restaurant owner calls cops.
3. Cops show up and ask you to leave. You tell cops to sod off.
4. Cops arrest you for trespassing and run your license. If you have your concealed carry permit, you have broken no law except trespassing.

4. I walk into a gun shop... now I've observed that most shops here straight up ask "Are you...?" and if you have a firearm anywhere they'll tag it, but if they don't ask, don't tell?

1. Tell them it is none of their damn business and you wanted to spend $xxx.xx at their store, but your privacy is worth better than a $50 discount over store whathaveyou.
2. Walk out the door.

5. Wife picked up her new Ruger LC9 and was fitting it to her holster, in the car, in front of the gun shop, in front of a county sherriff who was standing just up from us and could see her. I will freely admit that even though we both had CWPs on us and no ammo on hand, it made me nervous.

Why? Cops and gun shop owners and whoever are people just like you. If it is legal, you have nothing to worry about. You get used to the feeling after a few months of carrying. I feel like I am missing something when I don't have my concealed carry gun on me.

[lokifz1]

Contact whatever agency in Virginia issues the license.
Call the instructor.
Do not follow random advice from the Internet.

Did you sleep through the class?

[BigDaddyTX]

Sounds like he had a shitty instructor.

[silversnake]

Sounds like you might have had not the best class, but good for you and your wife for wanting to get training/educated before jumping right in. As most people have already said, a lot of this is specific from state to state and I'm not an expert in VA state law nor a lawyer. That said, I am a random yahoo on the internet with an opinion:

All of these questions assume that I have a concealed handgun on me and my permit on hand.
1. Get pulled over while driving for some traffic issue. I assume that you don't have to tell the LEO you're carrying right?

Some states have mandated reporting, some do not. Make sure you know which way VA falls on this by contacting your instructor and/or the licensing agency in VA or similar reputable source. Also note that things change. For myself, I'm going on the decent advice given by Massad Ayoob (can't find the video on YouTube right now, but it's there somewhere and he seems to know his stuff along with a good dose of common sense) that most cops have access to all the interconnected databases so if VA issues a CC permit, it will show up on his computer screen in the patrol car when he pulls you over. Thus, should I ever get stopped (even though my state doesn't mandate reporting) I plan to wait in the car with both hands on the wheel and the dome light on until the officer reaches the car. Then, after informing him of my intention, remove my DL and LTC and hand him both while informing him that I am licensed to carry a firearm and currently have one on me in XXXX location. Note the use of the word "firearm" rather than "gun". I've heard the "gun" word can make police twitchy - especially if it's a nightime stop in a bad area of town. Some would argue that I don't have to inform the cop (not required) but it seems like a reasonable thing to do given the database age.

2. Get pulled over and have to step out of the car and LEO sees the concealed weapon and asks about it. I don't have to show the gun, I just have to show my permit correct?

Not sure. I would suspect that if you haven't told the officer that you have a gun already and he sees it while you're getting out of the car, you're not going to have much choice in the details of your actions for the next 5-10 minutes or so anyway.

3. I'm in a restaurant or some other location where it is allowed, or at least as far as I can tell (no signs etc) and a LEO confronts me about it... I just have to show the permit correct?
...get asked to leave; do I have to?
...a nonLEO asks about it - deny or reassure?
...someone freaks out?

Most of this is covered under "concealed means concealed". In some states, if someone sees your firearm in any context other than your own home, a shooting range, or in a self-defense situation where you're using it, you can get charged with the crime of "brandishing a weapon" or similar. I don't know how VA falls on this, but I've heard of places on lockdown because of umbrella handles and such so I'd make sure it was well hidden.

If you're in a place, regardless of signs, and the owner/operator of the private establishment (store, restaurant, etc.) asks you to leave for any reason (including your firearm) he/she is within rights to do so and you must leave or they can charge you with trespassing - my place, my rules and all that. Not the best place to argue the constitution or individual rights....

5. Wife picked up her new Ruger LC9 and was fitting it to her holster, in the car, in front of the gun shop, in front of a county sherriff who was standing just up from us and could see her. I will freely admit that even though we both had CWPs on us and no ammo on hand, it made me nervous.

Yeah, I wouldn't be fiddling with my firearm out in public. Again, even if you're perfectly within your rights to do so (I don't know if you are or not) it's tempting fate. All it takes is one frightened passer-by to see, over-react, and call 911. Next thing you know, you're going to find out exactly to the inch how many feet you were away from a city government building/school/daycare/playground and you could find yourself on the local news being described as "two armed suspicious individuals were found sitting in their car outside of...." Not prudent. Keep it in the box, get it home, then get it in the holster.

Are there conventions for these kinds of things and what other "odd" situations might arise a law-abiding citizen may want to consider...? Thanks in advance for any replies and advice.

The only other good piece of advice I've heard (other than "concealed means concealed") is "always carry a loaded cell phone". If the universe is kind, you'll never have to use your gun outside of a shooting range. But, if you do, you want to make sure that you're the one calling the police first and not the person you had to shoot or his/her friends. You want to be the first one to tell the police "that person attacked me and, fearing for my life, I had to shoot him to make him stop" rather than have them hear "that man shot my buddy for no reason".

Here's hoping that none of us ever have to get beyond the stage of "I carry a gun because I can and I like exercising my right to do so" and a little bit of target practice at the range.

[EricinVirginia]

Read the law. Paid attention in the class. It focussed/focusses on where you can carry and where you can't. What you can carry and what you can't. That was about it.

[Regular Guy]

My advice, always tell an LEO you're carrying whether you contact them or they contact you. Cops are touchy about finding guns on folks. If it's posted no CCW do not enter.

[EricinVirginia]

Thanks crew. I'm looking for practical tips and advice on the kinds of "normal" situations you might run across. Even if I have my gun concealed up my @sshole, someone somewhere somehow would someway... and then you have the time where you carrying and something happens. I don't know what that something is, but it seems likely that there are more common situations. My class did touch on mall shopping where shop by shop they may or may not have CWP signs posted and to be careful. We also talked about the VA law regarding police interaction... you aren't obligated or required to inform... and you can stand on your rights... but in reality, it seems there would be a convention where you do XYZ and the cops thereby know you're cool. The last thing I want to do is to do something ignorantly. It's great that the class covered the law. I learned all about how slingshots are not allowed to be carry concealed. I did not learn anything particularly practical about carrying.

[rburch]

Sounds like you might have had not the best class, but good for you and your wife for wanting to get training/educated before jumping right in.

Just an FYI about the Virginia concealed handgun permits.

The training requirement is that you have taken a Firearms Safety Class. Hunter Safety, military or police training, NRA classes all count.

Most people just take the NRA basic pistol class, which is what I'm assuming the OP did. As such that class doesn't go into the legal issues much, if it does at all. My instructors at least spent about 15 minutes at the end of the class going over it, and provided printouts on the laws. As to the OP, I'll do my best to answer some of them. Just please note I'm not a lawyer, and not an expert on the laws.

All of these questions assume that I have a concealed handgun on me and my permit on hand.
1. Get pulled over while driving for some traffic issue. I assume that you don't have to tell the LEO you're carrying right?

You don't have to tell them that you are armed. But most of the time they will know you have a permit when they run your tags. Still it's up to you if you choose to inform them. Personally I hand over my permit with my license, registration, & insurance.

2. Get pulled over and have to step out of the car and LEO sees the concealed weapon and asks about it. I don't have to show the gun, I just have to show my permit correct?

Having never run into this, I'm not sure what the legality is. I know you have to show your permit if asked.

3. I'm in a restaurant or some other location where it is allowed, or at least as far as I can tell (no signs etc) and a LEO confronts me about it... I just have to show the permit correct?

First off how the heck do they know you have it if you're carrying concealed. Still once again if you are asked for your permit, you have to produce it.

...get asked to leave; do I have to? ...a nonLEO asks about it - deny or reassure? ...someone freaks out?

Again if it's concealed how why would they ask about it or freak out? In any case if the property owner asks you to leave you face trespassing charges if you don't.

4. I walk into a gun shop... now I've observed that most shops here straight up ask "Are you...?" and if you have a firearm anywhere they'll tag it, but if they don't ask, don't tell?

Odd I've never experienced this at all. Now most Gun shows require it to be unloaded. But I've spent most of my time in gun stores carrying concealed. If they don't have a sign posted saying no concealed or no loaded guns, etc. then you're good to go on in.

5. Wife picked up her new Ruger LC9 and was fitting it to her holster, in the car, in front of the gun shop, in front of a county sherriff who was standing just up from us and could see her. I will freely admit that even though we both had CWPs on us and no ammo on hand, it made me nervous.

I walked into a local BBQ place and over half the 30 or so people were packing badges and guns. Had to walk between them to place my order, felt a little nervous too. That said, never had any issues with carrying open or concealed around police.

Are there conventions for these kinds of things and what other "odd" situations might arise a law-abiding citizen may want to consider...? Thanks in advance for any replies and advice.

The only convention I'd say would be don't be messing with the gun in public. Load it holster it and leave it alone. I don't know of a single case of a functioning gun just going off on it's own in a proper holster.

[BHP]

Rburch gave a pretty good rundown but if you still have questions please ask. I wrote the course we used at the indoor range I used to manage and it was very well received. Both students and law enforcement agencies alike commented favorably on it. Where in Virginia are you and where did you take your course?

[doitnstyle1]

One thing that you should also consider thinking about is practicing concealed. That is something they don't teach you in the concealed classes very much. If someone can see it or see you store it, it is not concealed. If it prints, it is not concealed. If it bulges it is not concealed. Practice that and it will minimize the impact on interactions with the public and LEO's.

Of course follow the letter of the law in your state (insert the rest of the disclaimer here--->)

Talk to your local LEO's (not just one). If you have regular patrolmen in your neighborhood or where you work it would behoove you to get their input. Let them know you are interested in doing the right thing with them around.
Just my 2 cents

[Kelvar]

It is late, so I'll give a brief response, hopefully more later (just got back from a long, depressing flight).

If a LEO pulls me over or initiates contact in any offficial means, I #1) Comply fully, #2) say something like, "For my own safety, I should advise you that I have a license to carry concealed and I am armed."

I like to lead with the "I have a license. . . " Rather than, "I've got a gun!!!" Somehow, I can imagine the second approach going awry. . . Where I live, I am not obligated by law to tell the officer. On the other hand, what do I have to hide? What do I have to gain by *not* telling him or her right up front? Well, there is a *slight* chance the officer could be a knucklehead and overreact by suddenly noticing the print of my pistol in its poorly "concealed" paddle holster (although I'll note for the record, I've worn my G19 many, many places in a paddle holster with nothing but a T-shirt over it, and no one has ever commented. Even friends and family who know I have my license and who think of me as a "gun guy" never notice. You'd be surprised just how many people are afflicted with what we called "cranial-rectal inversion" in the police academy. (Back in my misspent youth )).

I really advise against debating with an officer whether you're obligated to produce/reveal the weapon if so directed.

#1) Use common sense;
#2) Do what the police tell you*
#3) See #1


Oh, and don't act like you're doing something wrong when you aren't. Be confident. The reason you got the license is because you're a law abiding citizen and not a criminal, right?



If some representative of a private business tells you to leave, I recommend you do so. Speaking for myself, I would not get into an argument about what's fair, who is right, what is posted or not posted, what the law says or doesn't say--I would just leave. (Okay, maybe I'd reward them with a hilariously sarcastic expression). Where I live, at least, failure to do so could be legally construed as trespassing (or worse). That being said, as I noted above, although I don't often carry, I have carried in many, many places. I don't make a huge effort to conceal or worry about "printing." When you've carried for over ten years, you realize you're not under a microscope. No one is eyeballing you, sizing you up or analyzing whether you have any unexpected bulges. If they are then either (1) You're someplace you probably shouldn't be or (2) you've encountered someone who finds you attractive, or (3) All of the above.

Hope this helps.

[UndeadInfidel]

I have a friend here in Florida (Miami) who got put in handcuffs on the curb because he was carrying during a traffic stop (rolled a red light). This happened when he immediately told the female officer that he was a permit holder and legally carrying when he was stopped. Makes me think twice about coming right out and telling them if it's a basic stop that I don't expect to be arrested for.

Yes, this friend is a well off business owner and a very reputable person.

Since then I've revised my strategy to simply state that I have a concealed carry permit and am legally carrying, only at the point they ask me to step out of the car (and it's never come to that point). If you insist on telling the officer up front, I'd only do it after they request your driver's license, and I would hand them your concealed carry permit at the same time you hand them the drivers license.

[TDW586]

If they run your license, at least in my state, it will pop up with a red flag and "AWC" "CCW". "Approach With Caution". Of course, in my state you are legally required to inform any officer you come into contact with that you're carrying, which I really don't have an issue with.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk

[Kutter_0311]

Good advice above. I'll echo and add to it, from my whopping 1+ month carrying

1) Do what the nice officer says.

2) Mention it as tactfully as you can.

3) Say "firearm" NOT "gun" or "weapon."

4) Nobody notices because nobody cares.

WI got CCW a few months ago, but had Open Carry prior to that. OC freaks a lot of people out. It's not that common, but it gets noticed. Hoplophobes don't go looking for guns, but if it's right out there, they twitch until 911 starts talking to them... I make no great effort to hide my pistol because here I have every right to carry, open or concealed, just about anywhere I go. I tend to wear a loose, untucked shirt hanging over my pistol(OWB), and I know it prints. It's a damn G35 Long Slide. People aren't looking for it. They don't care. You haven't grabbed their attention by yelling, shooting, or hitting anyone. They don't see the sheepdogs anymore than the wolves. They have more important things to attend to: life.

You may, if an officer or someone else does notice, get a gun pointed at you, and usually it will be accompanied by yelling. You're not a bad guy, you're a good guy, have confidence in the fact that you've done nothing wrong, and follow Mr Gecko's advice: BE COOL.


ETA: More people being cool with guns pointed at them, with a side of philosophy and surf guitar.

[EricinVirginia]

Good posts. Good answers. Thank you. As noted, the class left some things to be desired. When I'm carrying, I feel like I'm carrying and it affects my carriage, demeanor, etc. Or at least I feel it does. I'll need to work on it. It's funny though to note how many signs stores actually really have posted. We were taking our dog to the vet the other day at PetSmart/Banfield and while I've always been aware that there are signs, I never really stopped to look for the "No Guns" signs. There must have been like 30 signs posted!

[Uncle Chuck]

The way I see it, if the proprietors really want me to see a sign, then it will be easy to see. If I have to look for it and it has a long list of prohibited items/activities in tiny font it will go unread.

As the cliche goes, "concealed means concealed." I never carry where it is actually illegal (Federal buildings, K-12 schools, D.C., Maryland, etc.) but other than that I don't worry about it.

In VA, "no guns" signs do not have the force of law.

[UndeadInfidel]

The way I see it, if the proprietors really want me to see a sign, then it will be easy to see. If I have to look for it and it has a long list of prohibited items/activities in tiny font it will go unread.

As the cliche goes, "concealed means concealed." I never carry where it is actually illegal (Federal buildings, K-12 schools, D.C., Maryland, etc.) but other than that I don't worry about it.

In VA, "no guns" signs do not have the force of law.

Agreed. What is the worse they could do if for some reason you had to intentionally reveal your firearm (which should conceivably be to stop a robbery or to save someone's life).... ask you to leave? The whole point of concealed carry is that no one knows you're carrying. If it's not a criminal offense, meaning not against the law to carry in said establishment, then I'd typically do it anyway.

I'd be interested to know if there's any recorded instance of someone being charged with armed trespassing when they were legally carrying in a private establishment that specified "no guns".

[kbilly84]

In VA, "no guns" signs do not have the force of law.

That's how it is in Minnesota. The statutes (624.714) have VERY specific requirements for the sign to be valid. (font size, proximity to door, and there has to be one at EVERY POSSIBLE entrance to the building). Buuuuuuuut, even with 100% valid signage, I can simply walk right on past them. Until I've been asked to leave while carrying and refuse, there's nothing they can do.

Aside from federal buildings, schools, and other places that are in the statutes as no-carry zones, that is.

[Gyrfalcon]

Hi, my wife and I just completed the conceal carry course here in VA. In the course of doing things and taking the class, we are finding we have a whole lot of questions not addressed by the course.

All of these questions assume that I have a concealed handgun on me and my permit on hand.

1. Get pulled over while driving for some traffic issue. I assume that you don't have to tell the LEO you're carrying right?

There is no requirement to notify the officer you are carrying, or that you are a permit holder. Recently, there was a case in which a resident of North Carolina, which shares reciprocity with Virginia, thought he would help himself out and cheerfully told a county police officer that he had a North Carolina concealed carry permit and that he was carrying, (as other posters here said they do as a matter of "courtesy") as he thought that he was required by statute to notify, like the regulations of his state dictate. The officer flipped her wig and drew down on him, and he was placed in cuffs, etc. "Reciprocity? What's that? A big word. Are you threatening me or something?" All very avoidable.

2. Get pulled over and have to step out of the car and LEO sees the concealed weapon and asks about it. I don't have to show the gun, I just have to show my permit correct?

If the LEO sees your concealed weapon, you have, of course, already failed, by the very meaning of the word "concealed." If the officer requests it, you must produce your concealed carry permit AND a photo ID. And of course, ask him/her if it's OK to retrieve your wallet FIRST, tell him/her how you are going to do it, get his/her OK, and then do so slowly.

3. I'm in a restaurant or some other location where it is allowed, or at least as far as I can tell (no signs etc) and a LEO confronts me about it... I just have to show the permit correct?
...get asked to leave; do I have to?
...a nonLEO asks about it - deny or reassure?
...someone freaks out?

If an officer asks to see your permit, you must produce your permit and a photo ID, but only if you are carrying at the time. If you are asked to leave by an officer, the prudent thing is to do so, even if you are entirely within your rights to stay. You are, of course, strictly required to leave if the owner of the establishment asks you to leave. Why has anyone seen your firearm in the first place?

If someone freaks out, calmly pay for your food and leave. It's not worth causing a scene. You may not drink alcohol while carrying concealed in a restaurant, etc., according to statute. You may drink alcohol while openly carrying, but doing so in this sad culture would be extremely imprudent, and one may not be "under the influence" while carrying a firearm. Better not to press your luck. And you simply don't want to be open carrying around drunk people. It's really a bad idea.

4. I walk into a gun shop... now I've observed that most shops here straight up ask "Are you...?" and if you have a firearm anywhere they'll tag it, but if they don't ask, don't tell?

Don't ask, don't tell, unless there is a sign stating "no firearms allowed." But then, I don't patronize businesses that do not respect my right to defend myself. And if the gun shop staff does prohibit you from exercising your right, it's a safe bet that the shop is full of staff and clientele who routinely muzzle-sweep anyone in the store. Just saying.

5. Wife picked up her new Ruger LC9 and was fitting it to her holster, in the car, in front of the gun shop, in front of a county sherriff who was standing just up from us and could see her. I will freely admit that even though we both had CWPs on us and no ammo on hand, it made me nervous.

The proper place to have done this would have been the gun shop, with their permission.

Are there conventions for these kinds of things and what other "odd" situations might arise a law-abiding citizen may want to consider...? Thanks in advance for any replies and advice.

Keep it either concealed or wide open. When concealed, don't print. You'll have very few problems.

It's dangerous to go alone: here, read this: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf

And this: http://www.vcdl.org/static/ccw.html Take up the VCDL on their handy print-a-prohibited-place cards. Note the reciprocal states, and note their statutes by clicking on the maps on handgunlaw. They are vastly different, and some do have prohibitions on restaurant carry and requirements to notify officers.

[Gyrfalcon]

In VA, "no guns" signs do not have the force of law.

Yes and no. "The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property." http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

You are automatically trespassing if you carry a firearm on property that clearly posts a prohibition on carrying firearms. You will not be arrested for a crime pertaining to firearms, and you will likely not be arrested if you leave after being asked, but you will be arrested for trespassing if you are asked to leave and do not.

[EricinVirginia]

I'm carrying a Kahr PM9... , which is a "micro" 9 mm. I have yet to find an arrangement that doesn't print somehow at some angle even with baggy shirts hanging loose. Right now, I'm using a Galco IWB holster but am going to try a Crossbreed supertuck. Obviously a jacket or vest hides it nicely, but today was 82 and humid and it's going to get hotter and more humid as we go. So I want something that coneals with a polo shirt or normal t-shirt. The main issue is that the grip sticks up at an angle. So far, behind the back is the only carry spot that doesn't print in a big way. Strong side, that dang grip prints so I need to find something that tucks the gun down farther, or maybe I should Erkel style and pull my pants up to my arm pits... I don't know.

The VA class was pretty clear that if there is a sign posted, we need to respect it. It has made me a lot more aware of all the signs out there, many of which you can barely see.

[JustAnotherSnakeCult]

I've had two interaction with VA state troopers while carrying. Both were pleasant and chill. I told both troopers i had a carry licence within like the first 10 seconds and kept my hands visible at all times. Once was a traffic accident (not my fault) once i was speeding (obviously totally my fault). I'm not sure if they know you have a carry permit when they run your tags, but i know for sure they do when they run your drivers license.

I also clearly need to take a better look for signs as I've never seen one. Yet I always notice them in TX and AZ...

And yeah, the VA conceal carry course i took was pretty useless.