Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby SlobberToofTigger » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:39 pm

Kommander wrote:I'm not worried about reserve currencies in such a scenario. I am much more concerned about the fallout from US consumers being unable to consume cheap stuff made in poor countries

For those of us in the US that is a valid concern and one that we will eventually get to experience. My belief (and I only have history to base it on so any other opinion is about as valid) is that if we go down fast then many of the scenarios described here with people rioting etc will probably come true. If on the other hand we sink slowly then we will probably go down with more of a whimper due to people having time to mentally accommodate their change in status.

and the lack of a world cop.

It is an interesting concern and one that no one really knows the answer to. We live in a very different world then we did 50 years ago when a world cop was needed to enforce peace on Europe and keep the rest of the world in line. We have lost our bad guy (the USSR) and are now in many cases perceived as the bad guy. It will be an interesting ride and one that will most likely not be fought out on the field of battle but rather by using germ warfare.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby williaty » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:46 pm

As an interesting aside, that bill in Wyoming that was just brought up initially contained a provision to examine the feasibility of obtaining an aircraft carrier. Does Wyoming even have enough water to float an aircraft carrier?
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby driftking777 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:55 pm

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Lake

Yes...however make a large loop in the lake to turn around...probably not. Lol
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby SeerSavant » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:11 pm

Wyoming aside, VA and NC are also in the mix. That is a sizable chunk of real estate, from the appalachias to the east coast, (and it's harbors) not to mention the various military bases, and ports. A lot of which is federally owned...

Does anyone know of an example where various regions became independent...

Prior civil war aside, every example I can think of is flawed, with the former soviet union being the closest in scope. But I'm not sure if Russia is a good example or not.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby raptor » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:32 pm

williaty wrote:As an interesting aside, that bill in Wyoming that was just brought up initially contained a provision to examine the feasibility of obtaining an aircraft carrier. Does Wyoming even have enough water to float an aircraft carrier?


The aircraft carrier was a joke and it was removed.

Rep. Brown was not a sponsor of the bill, although he does seem to have voted for it on the first reading; he later offered the aircraft-carrier amendment, and then voted against the whole thing today. So, although he hasn’t confirmed it yet, it does look like he may be one of those relatively rare legislators with both a sense of humor and the will to express it in a piece of legislation (which he knew would be deleted). It’s nice to be able to get humor out of a legislature this way for once.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinunderh ... t-carrier/
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby Kommander » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:36 pm

Off the top of my head I know of no instances of non violent balkinization. The closest thing I can think of is the creation of independent countries out former British colonies and even that was pretty violet in places.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby raptor » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:49 pm

Kommander wrote:Off the top of my head I know of no instances of non violent balkinization. The closest thing I can think of is the creation of independent countries out former British colonies and even that was pretty violet in places.


I do...

The peaceful split between the Czech Republic and Slovakia comes to mind.

The efforts Canada went through to avoid the Quebec secession are another example of a successful compromise to avoid it. That said I do think any secession there would have been peaceful but i am glad they avoided it.

But you are right. There are many, many more examples of failure and violence than peaceful splits. Divorces between people are frequently messy. Divorces between populations in one country are much worse.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby SeerSavant » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:57 pm

thanks.. . I'm gonna do a little reading on those examples...
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby Collie of Doom » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:56 am

Kommander wrote:The problem we have is that if the US goes down so does everyone else. Unlike the situation with the British there is no one capable of stepping into the void. So instead things would get allot more local and allot messier.


It would be a huge hit to the global economy. But other than that sizeable impact, long term, I don't think the world would much notice. We've got a very small population for our geographic area. Most stuff is manufactured elsewhere. There's nothing we produce on U.S. soil that can't be had elsewhere. Our military influence has no strategic point in Europe. There might be some shuffling around in Asia (Taiwan comes to mind) and of course Israel would have some serious issues - but Israel has nukes, I think they can manage. The rest of the Middle East is wildly unstable right now anyway. China, India, and Russia would become the regional rivals. Europe might actually be pressed to build up its military. Our major contribution to the human race at the end of the day is our Constitution, and I reckon its spirit would live on without us, it's already influenced lots of other democratic governments. We'd be like the ancient Greeks in a way. Gone but still influential. People would remember cowboys, American Indians, Hollywood, and George Washington through the ages.

But I don't think we're going anywhere anytime soon. Times might get hard, or they might get better, or they might slowly decline over a century. But I think we still have a good century or two left in us, at least.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby drunkensurvivor » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:26 pm

SlobberToofTigger wrote:
Kommander wrote:The problem we have is that if the US goes down so does everyone else. Unlike the situation with the British there is no one capable of stepping into the void. So instead things would get allot more local and allot messier.

That is not entirely true. There are quite a number of other countries whose currency's are in a much more positive position than ours and so could step into the position of reserve currency. None of them are perfect but ours is no where near perfect any more. We also have a number of global organizations with reasonable standing that can help build a basket of currencies to replace the dollar. And some of them have already been discussing this exact issue. Further there is really no reason for a single reserve currency any more as computers allow any currency to be converted into any other instantly so banking no longer needs to be done in a single currency. So in short, your fear of the dollars demise for the world, is a bit over blown and though those if us in the US will have a pretty hard landing the world will rebound quickly.


Which country has a currency in a positive position that would actually want their currency to be a reserve currency? I can't think of any that would be accepted over the dollar by the world at large. Right now the dollar looks pretty good and stable in comparison to other currencies. Worrying about a dollar collapse at this point is premature... worrying about our deficits, however, isn't. A basket of currencies might be a likely solution, but right now I think everyone would see it as a solution in search of a problem. I mean, a large part of the basket would be Euros, and with them included does that basket sound better than dollars? Likewise with the yen and yuan...
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby drunkensurvivor » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:31 pm

raptor wrote:
williaty wrote:As an interesting aside, that bill in Wyoming that was just brought up initially contained a provision to examine the feasibility of obtaining an aircraft carrier. Does Wyoming even have enough water to float an aircraft carrier?


The aircraft carrier was a joke and it was removed.

Rep. Brown was not a sponsor of the bill, although he does seem to have voted for it on the first reading; he later offered the aircraft-carrier amendment, and then voted against the whole thing today. So, although he hasn’t confirmed it yet, it does look like he may be one of those relatively rare legislators with both a sense of humor and the will to express it in a piece of legislation (which he knew would be deleted). It’s nice to be able to get humor out of a legislature this way for once.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinunderh ... t-carrier/

:lol:
That was a good one... without getting political, I wish we'd see more stuff like this in politics :).
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby SlobberToofTigger » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:02 pm

drunkensurvivor wrote:Which country has a currency in a positive position that would actually want their currency to be a reserve currency?

That is a provocative question and one I am not sure I know the answer to. I do not know how a currency becomes the worlds reserve currency nor do I know if the country even has a choice. I wonder if anyone on here has that bit of knowledge and can enlighten us?
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby Collie of Doom » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:08 pm

SlobberToofTigger wrote:
drunkensurvivor wrote:Which country has a currency in a positive position that would actually want their currency to be a reserve currency?

That is a provocative question and one I am not sure I know the answer to. I do not know how a currency becomes the worlds reserve currency nor do I know if the country even has a choice. I wonder if anyone on here has that bit of knowledge and can enlighten us?


I'm no economist, but I've traveled around a bit. The British Pound and Swiss Franc are both contenders. Both outperform the U.S. Dollar. I know less about the standing of Asia's currencies.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby raptor » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:22 pm

SlobberToofTigger wrote:
drunkensurvivor wrote:Which country has a currency in a positive position that would actually want their currency to be a reserve currency?

That is a provocative question and one I am not sure I know the answer to. I do not know how a currency becomes the worlds reserve currency nor do I know if the country even has a choice. I wonder if anyone on here has that bit of knowledge and can enlighten us?


There are two ways basically.
The market will actually dictate what currency it prefers. We see a little of this now with the Chines and their trading partners setting up trade and exchange rates without the USD. If the market chose to use some other currency then that would be one way.This however can takes a very long time.

Alternatively

When the US dollar became the reserve currency it was by agreement at the end of WW-2. The world was in taters and the US was the only power whose manufacturing and economy basically unscathed by war.

So the other method is that the largest economy most intact after a massive conflagration will be the new reserve currency. For instance during the cold war there were discussions about this. What would happen if the the US, Europe and the ex-USSR had survived a large but not massive nuclear exchange. One article I read suggested that Brazil would immediately rise to the status of a world power. This was obviously just an opinion of one analyst.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby SeerSavant » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:49 pm

Right now, I think the only thing maintaining the US's superpower title, is the military's dominance over so much...

But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for a country to have a huge external presence and influence, while internally, the country is falling apart. Like a hollow shell.
Without manufacturing and steady exports, I don't see how we can sustain another century. It hasn't even been a century since we endured the last depression, and eventually a world war and a change in our isolationist views, made us a world player...

Boy, that's simplifying it a bit... :shock: :lol:


But from what I've been reading, I think any kind of economic collapse will occur in stages, over different regions of the country, some actually might flourish while others fall into complete bankruptcy... Maybe this is for the best... or perhaps healthy is a better word for it.

There are other things we could do, but those involve borderline political subjects, so I'll go with, it's seeming like the country could fracture into various economic regions. As large as the US is, I think we could absorb a great deal of loss...

However, looming over all of this is the US debt... WIthout a financial bedrock of taxes/income, I simply don't see any kind of glimmer of hope in every bringing that down.



Picked up some books on the balkan conflict, and argentina, (although, they really don't mirror my current concerns by way of cause, but at least, the effect can be studied to a certain point) and am still looking for research material, but I gots a lotsa readin to do....
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby raptor » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:00 pm

SeerSavant wrote:Right now, I think the only thing maintaining the US's superpower title, is the military's dominance over so much...


If you look throughout history you will see that military dominance is the key to being the dominant economic power. The dominant economic power is the one that sets the reserve currency.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby SeerSavant » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:23 pm

raptor wrote:
SeerSavant wrote:Right now, I think the only thing maintaining the US's superpower title, is the military's dominance over so much...


If you look throughout history you will see that military dominance is the key to being the dominant economic power. The dominant economic power is the one that sets the reserve currency.



But has there been an example of a dominant power with military strength but a failing economy, lasting?

huh... Mebbe I should be looking at Roman history, there seem to be a lot of parallels...

Think my brain's to capacity right now... Long day...
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby TC » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:14 pm

The Telegraph wrote:Greek default looms as voluntary debt deal looks set to fail

European leaders are braced for the eurozone’s first ever sovereign default this week as Greece’s efforts to secure a €206bn (£172bn) “voluntary” bond swap looks increasingly unlikely.

Authorities in Athens are ready to enforce the controversial collective action clauses, or CACs, to impose the restructuring deal on all bondholders as the number of voluntary agreements look set to fall short of the required amount.

Credit rating agencies have warned they will declare Athens to be in default if the CACs are triggered which would be a dramatic culmination to a three-year rollercoaster ride for Athens, the eurozone and global markets.

While the markets have been ready for a Greek default for months, the move could leave Greece and its banks barred from funding from the European Central Bank (ECB). On Monday, Standard & Poor’s declared Greece to be in a state of “selective default” which led to the ECB announcing it would no longer accept Greek government bonds as security for new loans.

The rating agency said its decision had been prompted by the threat of the CACs and the actual use of them is likely to tip Greece into actual default. The agency said it regarded the process as a “distressed debt restructuring”.

Raoul Ruparel of Open Europe, the London-based think-tank, said: “Greece is likely to struggle to reach the targets for a voluntary agreement so the credit rating agencies are almost certainly going to see this as a default.

"What happens next is unknown territory.

"Greek banks will probably be barred from normal ECB funding and have to turn to the Emergency Liquidity Assistance [provided by the ECB] instead but for how long, we don’t know.”

Greece needs around 95pc of its private creditors to accept the deal by the deadline on Thursday in order to secure its €130bn international bail-out package and avert imminent bankruptcy.

Greek politicians back the use of CACs – which allow the deal to be imposed on all bondholders if 66pc agree to it – being inserted retrospectively if the voluntary agreement falls short.

The uncertainty over the deal on Greek debt put further pressure on the euro last week. The single currency fell sharply against the dollar and other major currencies.

Uncertainty over Spanish willingness to stick to its austerity programme also put pressure on the currency.

Last week, the International Swaps and Derivatives Association (ISDA) declared that there had not yet been a credit event in Greece so there was no need for the credit default insurance instruments to be triggered.

If the CACs are triggered this week, the committee will almost certainly reconsider its decision.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby drunkensurvivor » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:57 pm

SlobberToofTigger wrote:
drunkensurvivor wrote:Which country has a currency in a positive position that would actually want their currency to be a reserve currency?

That is a provocative question and one I am not sure I know the answer to. I do not know how a currency becomes the worlds reserve currency nor do I know if the country even has a choice. I wonder if anyone on here has that bit of knowledge and can enlighten us?


Presumably we're talking about the dollar losing reserve status because of a crash in value... if a country didn't want their currency to become the world's reserve they could just print enough to devalue it constantly... essentially do the same thing to their currency that people are worried is going to happen to the dollar. Or, they could simply threaten to do that.

Collie of Doom wrote:I'm no economist, but I've traveled around a bit. The British Pound and Swiss Franc are both contenders. Both outperform the U.S. Dollar. I know less about the standing of Asia's currencies.


I guess either are possible, but I just don't see the economic "rising stars" and future military super-powers accepting either very readily. Also, its tough to really conceptualize how all of this works. Like, would using the franc or pound cause instability in those currencies because they have smaller economies and smaller monetary bases? I dunno, this type of stuff doesn't have much precedent. These are probably questions better suited for a seance where you try to contact Milton Friedman than they are for a zombie survivalist forum.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby raptor » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:27 pm

An interesting twist by the US Fed. I understand the mechanics but I have to confess confusion over the anticipated result. I could see where printing money to buy existing debt and preventing the debt sellers to use the money by tying it up would work.

However I am at a loss to understand why someone would sell a long term bond if they could only get paid in short term paper at a much lower interest rate and thus never get the full proceeds released for other purposes. If you need the cash sell the bonds to buyers other than the Fed or pledge it as collateral for a loan. If you do not need the cash, hold the debt.

What am I missing here?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories



MARKETS Updated March 7, 2012, 1:30 p.m. ET
Fed Weighs 'Sterilized' Bond Buying if It Acts
By JON HILSENRATH

Federal Reserve officials are considering a new type of bond-buying program designed to subdue worries about future inflation if they decide to take new steps to boost the economy in the months ahead.

Under the new approach, the Fed would print new money to buy long-term mortgage or Treasury bonds but effectively tie up that money by borrowing it back for short periods at low rates. The aim of such an approach would be to relieve anxieties that money printing could fuel inflation later, a fear widely expressed by critics of the Fed's previous efforts to aid the recovery.


Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke

Fed officials are set to meet next week and have signaled that they are unlikely to launch new programs at that meeting. Moreover, it is far from certain the Fed will launch another program later on. If growth or inflation pick up much, officials seem unlikely to launch a bond-buying program because the economy might not need the extra help or because doing more could spur higher inflation. But if growth disappoints or inflation slows substantially, Fed officials might at some point decide to act again.

The Fed's approach to a bond buying program matters a lot to many investors. More money printing could push commodities and stock prices higher, or send the dollar lower, if it sparks a perception among investors that inflation is moving higher, said Michael Feroli, an economist with J.P Morgan Chase. However, if the Fed chooses a course aimed at restraining inflation expectations, the impact on those markets might be more muted.

Fed officials have used different types of bond-buying programs since 2008. In each case the aim has been to drive down long-term interest rates to spur investment and spending by businesses and households. In case they decide to act again, they're exploring three different approaches, according to people familiar with the matter. Those approaches are:

• First, they could use the method they used aggressively from 2008 into 2011, in which the Fed effectively printed money and used it to purchase Treasury securities and mortgage debt. The Fed has already acquired more than $2.3 trillion of securities in several rounds of purchases using this approach, widely known as "quantitative easing," or QE.

• Second, the Fed could reprise a program launched last year in which it is selling short-term Treasury securities and using the proceeds to buy long-term bonds. This $400 billion program, known as "Operation Twist," allows the Fed to buy bonds without creating new money.

• Third, in the new novel approach, the Fed could print money to buy long-term bonds, but restrict how investors and banks use that money by employing new market tools they have designed to better manage cash sloshing around in the financial system. This is known as "sterilized" QE.

The Fed's objective under any of these programs would be to reduce the holdings of long-term securities in the hands of investors and banks. The Fed believes that reducing the amount of long-term bonds in the hands of investors drives down long-term interest rates, encourages more risk-taking, and thus spurs spending and investment by households and businesses.

The differences between the three approaches involve where the money comes from and where it ends up. The Fed hasn't literally printed more money, but it has electronically credited the accounts of banks and investors with new money when it purchased their bonds under quantitative easing. The Fed has pumped more than $1.6 trillion in new money into the financial system this way, and has also rejiggered its existing holdings, as part of its bond-buying efforts.

Many Fed officials believe strongly the bank reserves it has created as part of this money creation aren't an inflation threat. But they are acutely aware of a popular perception, also held by a few inside the Fed itself, that the money the Fed has created could cause an inflation problem down the road. An approach that limits the amount of new money flowing into the system—through another Operation Twist or a sterilized operation—could help them manage that perception.

Under the third approach, the Fed would create new money as it buys long-term bonds. But then it would effectively lock up the money rather than letting it loose in the broader economy. The Fed would do this by borrowing the money back from investors for short periods—say, 28 days—in exchange for some low interest rate it would pay investors.

Transactions like those under the third scenario are called "reverse repos." A related program called "term deposits" also ties up short-term money held by banks. The effect of this approach is the same as Operation Twist: The Fed would hold more long-term bonds and investors and banks would get more short-term holdings in exchange.

Officials at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York have designed the reverse-repo program for use when the economy is much stronger and they want to tighten credit. But the same tools could, in theory, be used now to fine-tune a program meant to ease credit conditions.

Fed officials in New York and at the board in Washington are considering the costs and benefits of the different approaches. They have been pleased with the results of Operation Twist. But they would face some practical limits if they wanted to repeat it.

Louis Crandall, a money-market analyst with Wrightson ICAP LLC, estimates the Fed would have only about $200 billion of short-term securities left to work with in the second half of the year if it decides to repeat the Operation Twist program as currently designed. The current program ends June 30.

The third approach has some benefits the other options don't have. Unlike Operation Twist, the size of the program wouldn't be constrained by the Fed's own holdings of short-term Treasurys. This approach would also give officials an opportunity to try out some of their new tools to see how they work on a large scale.

Moreover, the program could be conducted with financial institutions other than banks, like money-market funds, increasing the Fed's flexibility in managing reserves. The reverse-repo program was designed to include money-market funds and these institutions don't participate directly with the Fed in other operations.

Still there are potential drawbacks. Reverse repos could push short-term interest rates—now near zero—higher than the Fed wants them to go. Moreover, the Fed has described the reverse-repo program as a tool to use when it wants to tighten credit. Using it in combination with a bond-buying program meant to ease credit could "send a lot of conflicting signals" to the markets, Mr. Feroli said.

Write to Jon Hilsenrath at jon.hilsenrath@wsj.com
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby duodecima » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:57 pm

raptor wrote:An interesting twist by the US Fed. I understand the mechanics but I have to confess confusion over the anticipated result. I could see where printing money to buy existing debt and preventing the debt sellers to use the money by tying it up would work.

However I am at a loss to understand why someone would sell a long term bond if they could only get paid in short term paper at a much lower interest rate and thus never get the full proceeds released for other purposes. If you need the cash sell the bonds to buyers other than the Fed or pledge it as collateral for a loan. If you do not need the cash, hold the debt.

What am I missing here?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories

I think this strategy does not attract buy-and-hold investors, but there seem to be a lot of financial entities that do buy & sell long term bonds to try to make short term profits, or for cash-flow purposes? Perhaps they would find this useful to their "personal" or internal institution goals. Perhaps the "missing" piece is all the people who don't think like Warren Buffet?
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby drunkensurvivor » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:26 pm

raptor wrote:An interesting twist by the US Fed. I understand the mechanics but I have to confess confusion over the anticipated result. I could see where printing money to buy existing debt and preventing the debt sellers to use the money by tying it up would work.

However I am at a loss to understand why someone would sell a long term bond if they could only get paid in short term paper at a much lower interest rate and thus never get the full proceeds released for other purposes. If you need the cash sell the bonds to buyers other than the Fed or pledge it as collateral for a loan. If you do not need the cash, hold the debt.

What am I missing here?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories


So the fed wants to make long term bonds less attractive and force capital into riskier areas. A long term bond has interest rate risk and inflation risk. Short term debt is much less risky, and presumably the fed would make it above market rates to make the short term debt attractive.

Still there are potential drawbacks. Reverse repos could push short-term interest rates—now near zero—higher than the Fed wants them to go. Moreover, the Fed has described the reverse-repo program as a tool to use when it wants to tighten credit. Using it in combination with a bond-buying program meant to ease credit could "send a lot of conflicting signals" to the markets, Mr. Feroli said.


This quote from the article says it all. I personally don't know if this would even work as intended. It would probably work well on a very limited scale, and past that point the manipulation of short term rates would go too far and they would have to drop it. It makes you wonder if their real intention is even for the stated purpose or not.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby raptor » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:35 pm

More from Greece.

The restructuring now set to be executed will see Greece chop 53.5% from the face value of around €200 billion in bonds held by private creditors. Greece's other major creditors include its fellow euro-zone nations, who have lent €53 billion, the International Monetary Fund, which lent €20 billion, and the European Central Bank and other national central banks, which bought more than €50 billion of its bonds. None of those borrowings are affected by the restructuring.

Of the €206 billion in total securities in private hands, €177 billion are government bonds issued under the laws of Greece, about €10 billion are bonds issued by state-owned companies and guaranteed by Greece and €18 billion are government bonds issued under the laws of foreign jurisdictions, where Greece's reach is more limited.


Source:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... _pageone_0


Briefly translated if you have a 100,000 Euro face value bond you now have a bond with a face value of 46,500 Euro. You just lost 53,500 euros on that bond if you bought it at face value.

Now in financial double speak this is not a default. It is a workout.

Actually for some speculators who were buying these bonds at 20% to 30% of face value this may actually be a nice windfall. This does make repayment more probable...not certain...but more probable. So as always there are those who get haircuts and those who are barbers. :wink:
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Postby Kommander » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:55 pm

I do like how some European leaders are now declaring the crisis to be over. Never mind the mess that the rest of the Med. is in.
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