AAR Two day Advanced Handgun w/ Kyle Defoor (complete)

[Big B]

We trained straight through lunch and then went into different close in techniques and Kyle explained and demonstrated the need for a small quick access fixed blade. Kyle had a Tracker Dan Bloodshark in a custom sheath just to the left of his belt buckle mounted horizontally to allow for blindly (.48 or something crazy like that) quick access with either hand. The use of the small fast blade has many uses to help you during an encounter at "fuck you" distance, with in a few feet more of arms length away. A small quick blade can allow you the time to get to your primary by inflicting damage to a close in attacker, also allowing you to somewhat control a close in attacker with a blade stuck into them while you draw and engage other threats. This close in work and the knife work made me realize how much I need a good fixed blade and the training on how to use it.

Are you able to explain the close in techniques a little more?

Did he give any sugestions as far as good classes or instructors when it comes to utilizing a kinfe?

I see he likes the Bloodshark, did he give an expenation as to why? Or did he share his thoughts on what to look for when picking a small blade to carry?

Thanks for the AAR!

[gravediggerfour]

We trained straight through lunch and then went into different close in techniques and Kyle explained and demonstrated the need for a small quick access fixed blade. Kyle had a Tracker Dan Bloodshark in a custom sheath just to the left of his belt buckle mounted horizontally to allow for blindly (.48 or something crazy like that) quick access with either hand. The use of the small fast blade has many uses to help you during an encounter at "fuck you" distance, with in a few feet more of arms length away. A small quick blade can allow you the time to get to your primary by inflicting damage to a close in attacker, also allowing you to somewhat control a close in attacker with a blade stuck into them while you draw and engage other threats. This close in work and the knife work made me realize how much I need a good fixed blade and the training on how to use it.

Are you able to explain the close in techniques a little more?

Did he give any sugestions as far as good classes or instructors when it comes to utilizing a kinfe?

I see he likes the Bloodshark, did he give an expenation as to why? Or did he share his thoughts on what to look for when picking a small blade to carry?

Thanks for the AAR!

He mentioned these guys http://sayoctactical.com/ quite a few times when talking about knife fighting and such. I liked how he talked about using a blade in someone as a handle to control them to an extent especially when fighting multiple attacker and being able to get to your gun.

The Blood Shark is what he likes for multiple reasons some of them obvious reason. He recommended a few blades but I don't remember them by name but he did say that no knife he had seen came with as good of a sheath as the Blood Shark. Handle length, blade shape and handle thickness were big things that he hit on during the knife portion.

There are some knives from Gerber and cold steel that take some modification but would work with a custom sheath, Benchmade has one too I was looking at that came with a trainer also but it needs a lot of modding and is double edged I think.

I honestly had already thought of our ZS knife maker and paid more attention to the details of what you should look for than off the shelf brands. I already have contacted and requisitioned the blade.

Here's a good write up on the blood Shark though so you know what to look for.
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.c ... php?t=1665

[phil_in_cs]

I saw a youtube demo of the TDI, and with untrained people at a seminar. They were able to get them to draw and stab a balloon in under 0.8 seconds (using a shot timer). And that's with the standard TDI sheath and there are many better ones available.

Most people have no idea how fast that knife can come into play, when you're at "fuck you" distances as you put it. At that range, left hand goes to fend/foul his pistol draw, and right hand goes stabby. It is really astonishing how fast small fixed blades can get into use.

[Big B]

He mentioned these guys http://sayoctactical.com/ quite a few times when talking about knife fighting and such. I liked how he talked about using a blade in someone as a handle to control them to an extent especially when fighting multiple attacker and being able to get to your gun.

The Blood Shark is what he likes for multiple reasons some of them obvious reason. He recommended a few blades but I don't remember them by name but he did say that no knife he had seen came with as good of a sheath as the Blood Shark. Handle length, blade shape and handle thickness were big things that he hit on during the knife portion.

There are some knives from Gerber and cold steel that take some modification but would work with a custom sheath, Benchmade has one too I was looking at that came with a trainer also but it needs a lot of modding and is double edged I think.

I honestly had already thought of our ZS knife maker and paid more attention to the details of what you should look for than off the shelf brands. I already have contacted and requisitioned the blade.

Here's a good write up on the blood Shark though so you know what to look for.
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.c ... php?t=1665

Thanks for the links and additional info

I'm assuming your talking about Storm Crow? I'm interested to see what he comes up for you!

ETA: I've been carrying a TDI behind my mag pouch on duty for a few years now, although I've been thinking about upgrading. I practice drawing it, and I practice retention at training, but I would really like to get some formal training from an instructor outside my agency.

[gravediggerfour]

Straight from the horse's mouth B.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95063

[Big B]

Straight from the horse's mouth B.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95063

Thanks bro!

[phil_in_cs]

Straight from the horse's mouth B.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95063

In my training, the sheath is a bigger deal than the knife. You have to get the weapon into play. Just like a holster gets you access to your pistol, your sheath gives you access to the knife.

You mentioned earlier that he said he has a custom sheath for the knife - did you get photos of that?

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

Great AAR, GD4!

Also very, very interested to see what the good smith from Texas comes up with for you (I bought a TDI yesterday and I feel my hands are too big for it).

-

[gravediggerfour]

Straight from the horse's mouth B.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95063

In my training, the sheath is a bigger deal than the knife. You have to get the weapon into play. Just like a holster gets you access to your pistol, your sheath gives you access to the knife.

You mentioned earlier that he said he has a custom sheath for the knife - did you get photos of that?

The sheath he had was very minimal kydex sheath with a clip on the back so it could be mounted pretty much any where. The cool thing about the clip was it had a little clothing hook of sort that would grip into the fabric that the sheath was clipped to.

It did not take much to pull the knife no sort of retention device other then the kydex.

[AKFTW]

Wow, their new website is slick as fuck, very nice.

[phil_in_cs]

It did not take much to pull the knife no sort of retention device other then the kydex.

yeah - "retention device" and "sub half second draw" don't go together....

[TheLastOne]

Here is a good shot of the sheath from m4carbine thread

[JTNieman]

Awesome write up. Finally had time to read it all. Makes me realize all the more, that I need to get to a more advanced pistol course.

[Matt E.]

Awesome write up. Finally had time to read it all. Makes me realize all the more, that I need to get to a more advanced pistol course.

Yep. If more people trained with more advanced instructors we'd have significantly less to argue about.

[Paul J]

Shiiiiit. you ain't never lied!, Just think no more weaver, no more overhand rack, No body would ever say anything like "but Jeff Cooper said" But life would be very boring .

[doc66]

Shiiiiit. you ain't never lied!, Just think no more weaver, no more overhand rack, No body would ever say anything like "but Jeff Cooper said" But life would be very boring .

There's a reason for the overhand rack. But if you don't-- *shrug*-- use what you like.

[Matt E.]

There is a reason to use all 3.5 techniques. That's the point.

[doc66]

There is a reason to use all 3.5 techniques. That's the point.

Is it really?

[Matt E.]

As far as reloading goes...really.

[Dave_M]

Oh christ, not this shit again...

[gravediggerfour]

I would really like this thread to not get locked.

On topic safariland came through on making up for the defective holster.. [img]http://img.tapatalk.com/a6898e20-0fe0-1694.jpg[/img]

[phil_in_cs]

There is a reason to use all 3.5 techniques. That's the point.

Is it really?

Oh christ, not this shit again...

I would really like this thread to not get locked.

I am curious what all this is about, but I agree w/ GD4 that a separate thread would be the place for it.

[blackjack32]

There is a reason to use all 3.5 techniques. That's the point.

Is it really?

Oh christ, not this shit again...

I would really like this thread to not get locked.

I am curious what all this is about, but I agree w/ GD4 that a separate thread would be the place for it.

Im inclined to agree with Matt E. and Paul J.
each method to reload a pistol properly that has been talked about has its place in the combat shooters toolbox. I am a huge fan of energy conservation as a whole. It pays huge dividends in a combat enviroment so I personally have a hard time wrapping my mind around using a method that takes more time and energy away from the action we are all trying to accomplish as quickly as humanly possible: putting bullets back in the gun. I think we can all agree this is priority one if your gun goes dry in a gunfight. Bottom line, if your concerns about your slide stop being to difficult to manipulate, to far to reach, ect. then you have a couple of options. First, train with your selected pistol. Each and every one of us should know our weapon of choice inside and out including faults, performance and limitations including our own perosnal ones. So find ways around it or get another pistol that fits your current abilities. Second, manipulate the slide stop and put bullets back in your gun the fastest, most foolproof way possible.