How Much Ammo?

[engineer1371]

That is a pretty good goal. I am set on ammo all except for my stock pile of 7.62x25. Just waiting for the wife's ok before I buy 2 800 round tins . But if you need a reference on what to store this is what I try to maintain until funding is better.

9mm 500-1000 rounds mixed between ball and JHP
.22 cal. around 5000-6000 rounds
12ga. around 300-500 rounds mixed between slugs, buckshot, #4 steel shot loads, #7 bird shot loads.
7.62x39 around 1000-2000 rounds for the two Wasr 10/63's that me and my wife have.
.380 around 500-1000 rounds mixed between ball and JHP

We look pretty much like we are on the same page...I definitely split my inventory between practise and keeper rounds...and then rebuying as I shoot. The spreadsheet helps keep me straight as to where I need to buy next.

I keep telling the wife, the guns and ammo are not worth one dang bit to us, unless we are absolutely proficient with each...I am in the process of setting up a tactical range (50 - 100 yds) for action practice. I just put out steelies at 175 yds for the first time last week. Boy did I like that!!!!!! What a beautiful sound

the Big Boo

Took me a while to get the wife on the same page and I ended up selling my guns in the off calibers to gain funds to buy ammo for the ones we were keeping. Also used some of it to start the garden and stock up on some more food stores. Water is pretty much covered as we have a well and a pool.

Make sure to keep up the practice and do it in any weather. I make the wife practice in the rain and snow as well since the weather is not going to be perfect in a firefight if SHTF.

[BullOnParade]

Any interest in reloading? If you talked about it already, I must have missed it, and I'm sorry. But reloading will stretch your spent brass further, allowing for more money to be spent on new ammo/more components. If you have more money than time, fill your boots.

For a survival situation, I would argue that you're spreading yourself pretty thin (again, considering personal monetary constraints). I would argue to 1 caliber defensive rifle, 1 caliber hunting rifle, 1 caliber side arm, 1 gauge shotgun, and .22 regardless of previous decisions. If you're stockpiling for yourself and the wife, you may each have a caliber of choice for each criteria, but if you can consolidate, all the better (you both like the AK for SD round). Also, some criteria may overlap, go with this if you're comfortable with it (i.e. 5.56 as defensive + hunting caliber).

Again, just my opinion. I'm fairly new to firearms, and quite limited in what I can afford for stockpiling. Especially in the ammo vs. food/water battle. YMMV, obviously.

[UndeadInfidel]

I make the wife practice in the rain and snow as well since the weather is not going to be perfect in a firefight if SHTF.

Better you than me. I'd be single if I tried that one.

[BullOnParade]

I make the wife practice in the rain and snow as well since the weather is not going to be perfect in a firefight if SHTF.

Better you than me. I'd be single if I tried that one.

QFT. Some spouses, it's hard enough to get them to practice, let alone in less than optimal weather.

[engineer1371]

I make the wife practice in the rain and snow as well since the weather is not going to be perfect in a firefight if SHTF.

Better you than me. I'd be single if I tried that one.

I'm lucky that I have a wife that listens when I point out things in the news that point toward the downward spiral of sanity. That and she likes to shoot and wants to learn how to defend herself in any situation. I told her that weather can cause your weapon to malfunction in ways you wouldnt think possible.

But on the other hand it does cost me in the long run.... The restaurants she likes to go to hurt when I get the bill.

[landser]

how much ammo? you can never have enough. I have had years I burned through 30k or so mixed pistol rifle rimfire. in 2010 i settled a civil rights violation lawsuit the proceeds helped me burn through 30-35k that year and buy tons of ammo. I cant even guess what i have any more I just buy buy buy, The big issue with ammo is...... who the hell has to carry it all. I am building a trailor right now and puting overloads on the rear of the van. I have brass just brass that is in 30 gallon rubbermaids a man can barely lift. I would say its not unreasonable to suspect going through 100-130k the last few years but I shoot rain or shine and have easy access to a range and had the feds and local idiots in charge fuel my habit courtesy settlement money. buy what you can afford but dont skimp on other preps. In 2008 and 2009 I was selling cases i had bought cheap for 300 or more because the ammo shortage.

I will tell you this right now buying online is insanity. stuff is selling so fast I have called weideners four times this week just because shit is moving so fast and I have the money( pay less on shipping buying one case than five cases at a time so i just order every day). Every day the same topic is we are running out of shit so fast becuase its election year and people are shitting over it. Buy now or cry later.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Took me a while to get the wife on the same page and I ended up selling my guns in the off calibers to gain funds to buy ammo for the ones we were keeping.

See, I don't sell guns once I buy them. I may not plan on using them for a SHTF situation, but having a rifle and a couple of boxes of ammo for it is never a bad thing. True, if things go south, I am unlikely to find reloads for 6.5 Carcano, or .43 Mauser or Beaumont. But the fact is that I already have some ammo for them. And can reload more as long as my supplies hold out. I may have larger quantities of my more common ammunition. That doesn't mean that I can't use a .303 British or a .257 Roberts to take care of more mundane tasks. It also gives me a bit more flexibility if there is ammo available in a crisis. The gun stores will sell out of the more common calibers much faster. There just aren't that many people who shoot .300 Savage or 7-30 Waters. I have seen the same boxes of ammo sitting on the shelves in a few stores for years. They may not be my first-string guns, but if I can get ammo for them, I will be perfectly happy using them. I live in Southern California. Running for the hills isn't really an option. Every idiot without a plan will do that. And there isn't that much food, shelter or game to be had in them. Not to mention the lack of water, and nothing but deserts between here and Arizona. My plan mostly involves sheltering in place, rather than going out and playing the role of helpless victim in some psycho's private Deliverence fantasy in them thar hills. I am in a position to to that where I live, so having the extra firepower stashed in the safe isn't as big of a deal. If I actually need to bug out (we have had to a few times for fires), I won't need tons of firepower. There are other things that rate higher. I can grab a LBV with ammo and a rifle and toss them in the trunk. After that I am spending more time worrying about getting vital papers, computer towers and valuables out. Not to mention kids, pets, and emergency supplies. Schlepping thousands of rounds in the car/van just isn't practical.

-Mb

[AKFTW]

I think caliber commonality is a great practice- it means you don't need to stock 9mm, .45 ACP, .32 S&W, 9x18mm, .41AE, 7.62 Nagant, .224 BOZ, etc. You just stock "Pistol ammo" that works in EVERY pistol you own- and any PCCs you might have. Then instead of having 500rds of .45 ACP, 300rds of .32 S&W, and 38rds leftover from an ancient box of .41AE, you can just buy 9mm (or whatever caliber you decide on) by the case online, and boom, you have ammo for all your pistols. Pistol ammo universally is not very effective compared to rifle ammo, so all sorts of fancy shiznit is not going to make THAT much of a difference, unless you like to hunt moose with a .454 Casull or something. Stick to one caliber that is cheap and stock it deep.

I can see the want for a variation in rifle ammo, since different rifle calibers can have VERY different ballistics, but I still think it's wise to keep your rifle selection to 2-3 calibers, such as 7.62x39, 5.45, or 5.56 for your intermediate caliber, 7.62x51 or 54R for your long-range caliber (or your favorite hunting caliber), and then maybe something with some flavor like .50 BMG or .338 Lapua (good luck stocking that )

.22LR speaks for itself- you must own a .22LR firearm, and if you do not you must drop whatever you are doing and acquire one. Now. No but seriously, .22LR is basically the only rimfire caliber that is worth stocking- you can get good small game loads, stock DEEP and CHEAP in bricks for practice and plinking (and for the .22 caliber conversion for your pistol or AR), and there are even some loads like CCI Mini-Mag 36gr HPs that are nothing to sneeze at if you needed to use it for defense in a pinch.

TL;DR- keeping obscure calibers on hand because you may stumble across a box in an abandoned gunstore in the PAW is flawed logic- Common calibers are cheaper and easier to stock, and even in a hypothetical PAW, what do you think people will start manufacturing again first, 9mm or .356 TSW? 7.62x39 or 7.5x55mm?

[OldSchool45b]

Narrow down your ammo calibers. All those hunting calibers serve a purpose, but one common caliber would be a greater resource. Get a general LR caliber that can be used for SD and hunting. 30-06 os the most common hunting caliber in the US followed by 308.

In the military a basic load is 7 mags rifle, 3 pistol. In SOF we were issued a triple basic load. 21 rifle, 9 pistol. Did we carry it all? nope, to heavy. The point is, I teach all of my students to plan on a triple basic load between what they carry and what is in their BOB/BOV. When it comes to ammo, I advise 4 reloads for your load out, for EVERY gun you have in that caliber. That give you flexibility and a stockpile. It acts as a force multiplier.

You are off to a good start. narrow it down and tweak it a bit and you are styling.

Just my .02

[Doctorr Fabulous]

I'm with old school. I'm in the process of getting out of several rifles and calibers, with the goal of getting down to five calibers.

5.56: MBR. SD/HD (XM-193)
.45 ACP: SD/CCW (JHP)
.22LR: Plinking, fun, general purpose (Golden Bullets)
6.8SPC: Larger game (hog/deer) hunting, since the hunting ammo's the same price as any decent 5.56 hunting ammo (SSA 110-gr OTM)
20ga: hunting (birds, small game) and critter control.

I'd like to stock about 10,000 round of .22, 2,000 rounds of 5.56, 2,000 rounds of .45ACP, 1,000 rounds of 6.8 and probably a couple hundred rounds of 20ga.

[The Big Boo]

Narrow down your ammo calibers. All those hunting calibers serve a purpose, but one common caliber would be a greater resource. Get a general LR caliber that can be used for SD and hunting. 30-06 os the most common hunting caliber in the US followed by 308.

In the military a basic load is 7 mags rifle, 3 pistol. In SOF we were issued a triple basic load. 21 rifle, 9 pistol. Did we carry it all? nope, to heavy. The point is, I teach all of my students to plan on a triple basic load between what they carry and what is in their BOB/BOV. When it comes to ammo, I advise 4 reloads for your load out, for EVERY gun you have in that caliber. That give you flexibility and a stockpile. It acts as a force multiplier.

You are off to a good start. narrow it down and tweak it a bit and you are styling.

Just my .02

Excellant advice...thanks much...I will work on the mags as advised for the pistol and AK. I have a collection of Big Loop Lever actions, mostly to leave or give to my sons eventually. But fun as heck to shoot and I plan to hunt (a little) with them. What I need to do I think, based on your experience, is mentally "split" my collection into the fun/hunting/practise collection and then the SHTF group. A different selection of arms that you would use based on the situation. Of course in a pinch, anything is better than the alternative. Problem is all my higher calibers are bolt action and even with the lever actions you are limited to 5-6 and a diffiicult reload.

Is there a non-AR type carbine and caliber you'd recommend? With a larger or replacement mag setup? Pistol caliber carbine?

I know the real answer is to just go AR...but what would be a good alternative outside of that given I have an AK?

Thanks...

The Big Boo

[The Big Boo]

from BullonParade:
"Any interest in reloading? If you talked about it already, I must have missed it, and I'm sorry. But reloading will stretch your spent brass further, allowing for more money to be spent on new ammo/more components. If you have more money than time, fill your boots. "

Absolutely, that's an upcomming project. It's just logical after weapon acquision, ammo stockpile, and practise, practise, practise, then some form of reloading, basic stuff if not the full shebang, is a fundamental survival skill. I've read you can get started fairly simply for a couple of hundred bucks or less in equipment and your first dies. I guess it is the reloading speed you want to achieve that ups the price on stuff.

heck maybe I should get a steel trap for all the LRN 38 sp we shoot for practise and melt that down for cast bullets and blackpowder loads!!!!! Probably not worth the money or time, but fun eh?

The Big Boo

[The Big Boo]

from AKFTW:
"22LR speaks for itself- you must own a .22LR firearm, and if you do not you must drop whatever you are doing and acquire one. Now. No but seriously, .22LR is basically the only rimfire caliber that is worth stocking- you can get good small game loads, stock DEEP and CHEAP in bricks for practice and plinking (and for the .22 caliber conversion for your pistol or AR), and there are even some loads like CCI Mini-Mag 36gr HPs that are nothing to sneeze at if you needed to use it for defense in a pinch."

Absolutely right...for someone just starting, this is key and 22 rifles are cheap....besides it is your first choice in practice at a rate anyone can afford. I have a henry lever action, old JC Penny single shot, and a KDF with removable clip that is most accurate rifle I own....hold top of the bottom post (4x scope) at 175 yards and it punches holes -- freaking amazing.

Because of the layout of my place and field I also have a 22 hornet which is an oldie but goodie, perfect for my needs (varmit, yotes, turkey). Folks really overdue the killing power of cailibers, a 22 can be extremely deadly on all light skined animals. While not ideal of course for deer hunting, I've seen two deer killed with the hornet (it is not legal in many states). You couldn't really find the exit wound, but the deer dropped and didn't run - just the same with the bigger calibers.

Within 100 yards, an autoloader 22 is nothing to sneer at. For noise control it is also great. If I had a wife or lady friend who was totally shy of kick and guns, the ONE thing I would make sure she had was a 22.

Below is what I "absolutely" must buy next.....Ruger SP101 22LR. It is the exact match to the same Ruger I have in 357 mag.

The one and maybe only thing I can say positive about having to do SHTF preps, is it is a great reason to buy guns!!!!

The Big Boo

The Big Boo's Current Drool.....

[Coal-Cracker]

...I've read you can get started fairly simply for a couple of hundred bucks or less in equipment and your first dies. I guess it is the reloading speed you want to achieve that ups the price on stuff....

You've heard correctly. You don't have to go with a Dillon Progressive Press to start. A Lee Single Stage will work fine. The only real negative is, as you mentioned, reloading speed.
Here's a very inexpensive setup and how I got my start: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/149097 ... ersary-kit (I upgraded right off the bat to a digital scale, though it isn't necessary.) All you need are dies, primers, powders, brass (you've been saving it, right. ) dial/digital calipers (recommended), and a good reloading manual and you should be good to go. (I may have left something out, it was a LONG night at work.)

I have a very respectable supply of factory ammo on hand, and about twice this amount in reloading component potential. All I need is the time to turn it into useable ammo.

I'm with Old School and Doc Torr in ammo culling and commonality.
To take it even further (and this is an attempt at a longer-term plan), I focused my ammo selection on ammo that has a strong following with regards to domestic manufacture (ie., .223/5.56 and .308/7.62x51.) The relatively inexpensive, imported surplus ammunition we all enjoy is only a pen stoke away from unavailability. Ever check the prices of domestic produced ammo like 7.62x39? It's eye-opening. So, long term, if you plan to use this caliber - stock up even more. Who knows what is around the corner this year, next year, 5 years from now...
I've also culled my firearm collection. If I don't shoot it and it holds no sentimental value - I get rid of it. It's only "stuff". I can use the money gained to expand more important preps or enhance my existing ones.

[The Big Boo]

...I've read you can get started fairly simply for a couple of hundred bucks or less in equipment and your first dies. I guess it is the reloading speed you want to achieve that ups the price on stuff....

You've heard correctly. You don't have to go with a Dillon Progressive Press to start. A Lee Single Stage will work fine. The only real negative is, as you mentioned, reloading speed.
I'm with Old School and Doc Torr in ammo culling and commonality.
To take it even further (and this is an attempt at a longer-term plan), I focused my ammo selection on ammo that has a strong following with regards to domestic manufacture (ie., .223/5.56 and .308/7.62x51.) The relatively inexpensive, imported surplus ammunition we all enjoy is only a pen stoke away from unavailability. Ever check the prices of domestic produced ammo like 7.62x39? It's eye-opening. So, long term, if you plan to use this caliber - stock up even more. Who knows what is around the corner this year, next year, 5 years from now...
I've also culled my firearm collection. If I don't shoot it and it holds no sentimental value - I get rid of it. It's only "stuff". I can use the money gained to expand more important preps or enhance my existing ones.

I have three sons, two live in farm country...they each have a deer rifle I bought them, Blackpowder, and a shotgun...nothing fancy. I want to put all my guns in good order and then tell them what each will be getting....a trick maybe to get them to visit the cabin more often and shoot!!!

So I need to take your advice and the other good advice here and really focus and decide on the SHTF collection and stock for that.

Besides the AK, in a NON-AR platform are there calibers or carbines with removable mags you'd recommend?

Thanks...

The Big Boo

[NamelessStain]

I'm with old school. I'm in the process of getting out of several rifles and calibers, with the goal of getting down to five calibers.

5.56: MBR. SD/HD (XM-193)
.45 ACP: SD/CCW (JHP)
.22LR: Plinking, fun, general purpose (Golden Bullets)
6.8SPC: Larger game (hog/deer) hunting, since the hunting ammo's the same price as any decent 5.56 hunting ammo (SSA 110-gr OTM)
20ga: hunting (birds, small game) and critter control.

I'd like to stock about 10,000 round of .22, 2,000 rounds of 5.56, 2,000 rounds of .45ACP, 1,000 rounds of 6.8 and probably a couple hundred rounds of 20ga.

Well you hit 3 of the 5 calibers I chose

I have a 12 gauge instead of the 20 and 7.62x54r instead of the 6.8.

I also have a 9mm, .308, and an old 25-06 breach load which I have about 200 rounds for each sitting around. Recently I've been looking at .22 air rifles for various reasons.

[MaconCJ7]

Boo,

Just curious as the the reasoning for the non-AR stipulation. The query isn't to talk you into it, it's because of the commonality of the rifle and the ready supply of parts, as well as caliber choices.

I'm looking at the Ruger Gunsight Scout. I have a friend, that has a friend who owns one. He'll be shooting it on his next R&R and will give me his opinion.

What calibers are you interested in and what magazine capacity is your preference?

[TheLastOne]

I'm with the guys on lowering the amount of calibers you need to purchase.

I'm going down to 9mm, 22lr, and 556/223 and that's it. Not much use for a shotgun in my AO, and I am comfortable with what the calibers I've listed are capable of.

I realize we're also kind of walking a fine line with potential political discussion in this thread, but it seems to be staying on the side of the line that is talking in a common sense matter about the results of the election on the ammo/gun purchasing public's buying habits than anything else. And I'd say I agree that I think this year/next year will be big business for ammo and guns like we saw last time around, if for no other reason THAN IT'S WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME. I think that will be the main reason, not that the majority will be fearing new laws or whatever (even though there will always be a large amount of people who do feel something like that is probable).

Also, Boo, your cabin and property/garden/fishing nearby! is pretty much the ideal for everybody around here. Good for you.

[thesupremeking]

I can't speak to the actually round count you are looking for, but lots and lots of 7.62x39, lots and lots of 5.56/.223, even more .22 LR, and I'd back off a bit on the pistol rounds. Tough to shoot at bad guys far away and hunt with pistols. Think about the calibers that can do multiple things effectively.

I store:
5.56
7.62x39
.22lr
.45 ACP
12 ga

I have a lot more 45 acp then is practical, but I reload so its cheap and I load a ton for trading purposes as well.

[engineer1371]

I can't speak to the actually round count you are looking for, but lots and lots of 7.62x39, lots and lots of 5.56/.223, even more .22 LR, and I'd back off a bit on the pistol rounds. Tough to shoot at bad guys far away and hunt with pistols. Think about the calibers that can do multiple things effectively.

I store:
5.56
7.62x39
.22lr
.45 ACP
12 ga

I have a lot more 45 acp then is practical, but I reload so its cheap and I load a ton for trading purposes as well.

I want to stock up on more .22LR for barter. Almost every home has at least one .22LR rifle or handgun so I feel that it will be very useful to have a large surplus of .22LR on hand.

[NamelessStain]

I can't speak to the actually round count you are looking for, but lots and lots of 7.62x39, lots and lots of 5.56/.223, even more .22 LR, and I'd back off a bit on the pistol rounds. Tough to shoot at bad guys far away and hunt with pistols. Think about the calibers that can do multiple things effectively.

I store:
5.56
7.62x39
.22lr
.45 ACP
12 ga

I have a lot more 45 acp then is practical, but I reload so its cheap and I load a ton for trading purposes as well.

Yup, I agree. More rounds for the rifles (x5 .22lr) than the pistols. I have a few cases of #6 and #7 shot from when I use to shoot sporting clays for a gun club. Besides that I've only bought some 00 buck and slugs for the shotguns.

[The Big Boo]

Boo,

Just curious as the the reasoning for the non-AR stipulation. The query isn't to talk you into it, it's because of the commonality of the rifle and the ready supply of parts, as well as caliber choices.

I'm looking at the Ruger Gunsight Scout. I have a friend, that has a friend who owns one. He'll be shooting it on his next R&R and will give me his opinion.

What calibers are you interested in and what magazine capacity is your preference?

I don't think anyone can predict exactly what situations that they will face. And situations will be vastly different depending on urban/suburban/rural locations. And it is hard to know how things might roll out. Fast, slow, indeterminate? As a result I think you need a variety of tools, baskets if you will, geared to several different scenarios.

1. If I have to travel in difficult times - need the concealed, the open carry and one more (lever action or better (shotgun is good)) hanging on the rack.

2. Hunting, I have that covered. I ambush deer and bear from the ground at less than 30 yards....In the woods you wouldn't see me before it was too late.

3 Home Defense - only thing I was lacking was semi-auto suppression...that's why I got the AK...it will do fine in my situation.

So if I were to add another, it seems something in a semi auto carbine...I looked at the Ruger mini-14...doesn't move me...the Scout rifle is sweet but still a bolt. Really looking for just some recommendations and what others are using. At least 10 capacity I guess, caliber something better than the 223 clones but maybe not as big as the 308. I think one gun writer once suggested a Nato replacement for the 5.56 with the 243. I would go for that as a self defense weapon that can reach and more punch that the 5.56. The 55g 5.56 has the same tragectory as a 95 grain 243 but the 5.56 retains half the energy. You can go even flatter and use the 55g 243 and get to 1/3 or more energy. Aside from Blackpowder I started my boys on a 243...very easy recoil and accurate as anything you'd ever need...Some say it's a little lite for deer but for a zombie at any range out to 500 yds, that caliber will do em in.

Here is an AR in 243 caliber, different and tempting...you'd have to reload to save money for sure.....Is there a high cap semi like the Ruger mini with a 10+ round mag for 243 or similar? I'd have to look seriously at that.

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=10A4243BF

The Big Boo

[UndeadInfidel]

I can't speak to the actually round count you are looking for, but lots and lots of 7.62x39, lots and lots of 5.56/.223, even more .22 LR, and I'd back off a bit on the pistol rounds. Tough to shoot at bad guys far away and hunt with pistols. Think about the calibers that can do multiple things effectively.

I store:
5.56
7.62x39
.22lr
.45 ACP
12 ga

I have a lot more 45 acp then is practical, but I reload so its cheap and I load a ton for trading purposes as well.

I want to stock up on more .22LR for barter. Almost every home has at least one .22LR rifle or handgun so I feel that it will be very useful to have a large surplus of .22LR on hand.

Good point. I was thinking about asking everyone here which rounds they thought were best for barter. I would have guessed .223/5.56 and 12ga.

I'm about to the point where I may even consider buying cheap 9mm rounds to have for that case specifically.

[AKFTW]

In the PAW, I believe that currency will either be .22LR rounds, TP, or bottlecaps