Survivalist attempts 1 year challenge, dies

[Woods Walker]

You fail at survivalism, sir, and make us all look bad in the bargain.

I concur with others. Solo survival is a fantasy. I don't care how brilliant and hairy chested you are, you can be the living incarnation of John J. Rambo and still slip a disc and starve to death with your arm outstretched towards a bag of rice on the counter.

I was in a situation recently where me and another of the group were going to go on an altoids tin and knife only mock bugout for three days, and he had to back out due to work obligations but I had the option of going solo. I chose not to for that very reason.

QFT

When I herniated three disks in my back, it happened at home, in my bed. I was basically unable to move at all without EXTREME pain, and this inside my comfy apartment. Had I been outdoors, in a survival or even just camping situation, and alone, my chances of survival would have dropped to zero. How did I herniate three disks, you ask? Why, all I did was sleep in a bad position- when I went to get up for work, pop! No more legs, just a world of hurt. I barely managed to get downstairs to go see the doctor- took me a half hour to go down one flight of stairs. Hiking a trail, out of the question.

A few years ago I undertook an 18-mile hike during the weekend. Nothing crazy but still some ground. I was packing around 35lbs attempting to jump a stream rock to rock. The last one was unstable and moved. Just made it to the bank and didn't think anything of it. My heel started to hurt and ignored that. The next day it was worse but finished the 9-miles back. Drove home and slept like any other night.

In the morning I couldn't move my heel and the pain was insane. Welcome to plantar fascitis. It wasn't life or death but was basically incapacitated for a few weeks. If I had to deal with winter weather, finding water and food it could have been the start of a downward death spiral over a stupid little injury.

[Woods Walker]

Also, that structure has a really high roof, heating it must be a bitch!

I didn't see much in the way of woods around in that photo either. Maybe another issue for heating and everything else but don't know the AO.

[Gorebucket]

Because probably the number one rule of survival is"Don't go looking for trouble."

Anything else I'd type would only be paraphrasing this. =)

[Doctorr Fabulous]

To quote WoodsWalker's sig,

"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

[M14fan]

It says something about his thought processes that his first attempt to survive off the land in the highlands of Scotland starts in LATE NOVEMBER!!!! REALLY??? I know he loved camping and climbing etc. but really, start your adventure in a more temperate time of year and learn what your resources are while the climate is a little more forgiving. JMHO.

[M14fan]

a really dumb...DUMB question, going back to very high school basic biology classes. okay, maybe I am mistaken, but things just don't spontaneously generate. if he is not in contact with other people, how does some virus or bacteria get in contact with him

Human beings carry enough pathogens in the normal flora and fauna of our bodies every day to kill us and everyone around us several times over. In fact, we are more bacteria than human as bacteria outnumber human cells many times over http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2004/10/65252.

All that is necessary for illness to ensue is to weaken our resistance through hypothermia, dehydration, hunger etc. and these pathogens can multiply to life threatening levels. Alternatively, we can have a hyper immune response to something and our own immune system will spiral out of control (much like a runaway nuclear reaction) and result in our death.

[dogbane]

This definitely doesn't look hospitable.

Survival school instructor Ian Moran, who teaches extreme survival and bushcraft skills, said it was extremely unlikely anybody could survive a Highland winter out of doors living off the land. He said: 'It would be a tall order for even the most professional person who calls himself a survivalist. Maybe centuries ago, when Scotland was covered in woodland and teeming with wildlife, but not now.'

This shows how we have contributed to our own habitat loss. Sure, as humans with technology, we can pretty much go anywhere, but as animals, we have optimum environments, and we've done a pretty good job of reducing or eliminating our own natural habitats in many bioregions throughout the world. This guy should have gone to one of the forested wilderness areas in Britain if he was so insistent on being out of com. He would have at least stood some chance (although his body might have been more difficult to find).

Wouldn't it be something Scotland's forest primeval could be replanted? Sure, it would take a few years.

ETA: What's the wild game situation on those islands?

[chills1994]

a really dumb...DUMB question, going back to very high school basic biology classes. okay, maybe I am mistaken, but things just don't spontaneously generate. if he is not in contact with other people, how does some virus or bacteria get in contact with him

Human beings carry enough pathogens in the normal flora and fauna of our bodies every day to kill us and everyone around us several times over. In fact, we are more bacteria than human as bacteria outnumber human cells many times over http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2004/10/65252.

All that is necessary for illness to ensue is to weaken our resistance through hypothermia, dehydration, hunger etc. and these pathogens can multiply to life threatening levels. Alternatively, we can have a hyper immune response to something and our own immune system will spiral out of control (much like a runaway nuclear reaction) and result in our death.

Okay, thanks!

After a while I started thinking about what I originally wrote. The cold dryer air could dry up mucus membranes and cause irritation, and that irritation becomes an entryway for germs to get a foothold against our immune system.

[duodecima]

a really dumb...DUMB question, going back to very high school basic biology classes. okay, maybe I am mistaken, but things just don't spontaneously generate. if he is not in contact with other people, how does some virus or bacteria get in contact with him

Human beings carry enough pathogens in the normal flora and fauna of our bodies every day to kill us and everyone around us several times over. In fact, we are more bacteria than human as bacteria outnumber human cells many times over http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2004/10/65252.

All that is necessary for illness to ensue is to weaken our resistance through hypothermia, dehydration, hunger etc. and these pathogens can multiply to life threatening levels. Alternatively, we can have a hyper immune response to something and our own immune system will spiral out of control (much like a runaway nuclear reaction) and result in our death.

It's a good point that, in society, a lot of what we catch comes from other people, but even without our own personal germs, there are things we can catch from animals & insects. E. Coli, salmonella, shigella, influenza, hantavirus, giardia, Pasturella multocida, tuleremia, plague (Yersinia), cat scratch disease (Bartonella), malaria, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, Lymes, Erlichia, Anaplasma, malaria... The tetanus bacteria is present in soil in most parts of the world. And this is just the list I can come up with off the top of my head, no references used.

I grant you, I don't think any of these (except maybe the giardia?) would have been likely to contribute to his death. But still, even if you're all alone in the wilderness, wash your hands.

[angelofwar]

This definitely doesn't look hospitable.

Survival school instructor Ian Moran, who teaches extreme survival and bushcraft skills, said it was extremely unlikely anybody could survive a Highland winter out of doors living off the land. He said: 'It would be a tall order for even the most professional person who calls himself a survivalist. Maybe centuries ago, when Scotland was covered in woodland and teeming with wildlife, but not now.'

This shows how we have contributed to our own habitat loss. Sure, as humans with technology, we can pretty much go anywhere, but as animals, we have optimum environments, and we've done a pretty good job of reducing or eliminating our own natural habitats in many bioregions throughout the world. This guy should have gone to one of the forested wilderness areas in Britain if he was so insistent on being out of com. He would have at least stood some chance (although his body might have been more difficult to find).

Wouldn't it be something Scotland's forest primeval could be replanted? Sure, it would take a few years.

ETA: What's the wild game situation on those islands?

Having spent a year in Iceland (I spent a lot of times hiking in the unforgiving Icelandic back-country), and noting how these two enviroemnts are quite alike, it's no wonder he didn't survive. Luckily, Iceland has a lot of volcanic "floors", so impromptu shelters are no problem. Clean water? Check. However, much like the highlands of Scotland, 1) Continuous wetness 2) No tree's 3) No wild animals (to speak of)...not even insects. Oh, and in Iceland, add 60mph winds 4 days out of the week. If you get stranded to far out in Iceland, you could not be found for days...the only thing the Icleandic people have going for them, is that everyone knows everyone, so if you ARE missing, some-one will be looking for you. And they have the right trucks to come and get you too:

http://www.arctictrucks.com

These guys run their op's out of Reyjkavik, and take big tires and jacking your trucks up to a new level...but, they do a damn good job at it, and make them look very professional.

Oh, and genuine sheep-skin gloves are AWESOME!

[tedbeau]

a really dumb...DUMB question, going back to very high school basic biology classes. okay, maybe I am mistaken, but things just don't spontaneously generate. if he is not in contact with other people, how does some virus or bacteria get in contact with him (his mucus membranes or eyes) to get him sick. I mean I guess he could have contracted something through his water (not boiling it long enough) or through whatever food he was eating, and then he had the runs so bad he got dehydrated, got out of his right mind, and then froze to death.
my next best guess is carbon monoxide poisoning assuming he didn't have enough draft in his shelter.???

I tend to suspect something along these lines. Perhaps he ate something poisonous.

As I recall that's what happened to the guy that the movie "Into the wild" was about. He mistook a poisonous plant for something edible that was simular. The movie portrayed it as if the plant causes damage to his system making it impossible to eat from what I recall, but it's been a few years since I saw the movie. Also in that movie he decided to stay on the wrong side of the river and when it flooded he was stuck with no way out.

[Woods Walker]

I tend to suspect something along these lines. Perhaps he ate something poisonous.

As I recall that's what happened to the guy that the movie "Into the wild" was about. He mistook a poisonous plant for something edible that was simular. The movie portrayed it as if the plant causes damage to his system making it impossible to eat from what I recall, but it's been a few years since I saw the movie. Also in that movie he decided to stay on the wrong side of the river and when it flooded he was stuck with no way out.

It might have happened in the movie but it's debatable if that's what occured in real life or in that case death. For some reason we have a hard time accepting exposure as the agent of death in many of these sad stories. Exposure can be hard to define. We want a smoking gun and exposure often doesn't fit neatly into that category.

[jamoni]

I tend to suspect something along these lines. Perhaps he ate something poisonous.

As I recall that's what happened to the guy that the movie "Into the wild" was about. He mistook a poisonous plant for something edible that was simular. The movie portrayed it as if the plant causes damage to his system making it impossible to eat from what I recall, but it's been a few years since I saw the movie. Also in that movie he decided to stay on the wrong side of the river and when it flooded he was stuck with no way out.

It might have happened in the movie but it's debatable if that's what occured in real life or in that case death. For some reason we have a hard time accepting exposure as the agent of death in many of these sad stories. Exposure can be hard to define. We want a smoking gun and exposure often doesn't fit neatly into that category.

If they worked as a tower climber for one year they'd believe exposure is a killer.

[DannusMaximus]

The bride and I took a vacation to Scotland in 2010, 10 days driving around to see what we could see and doing a lot of day-hiking in some incredible country. Really wonderful trip. As part of it we spent 2 days on the Isle of Skye. This was in mid-October, and chilly and wet is the order of the day in those parts.

Anyway, long story short, we started out on a short (2-4) mile hike along the northern perimeter of the island aobut mid-morning one day. It was chilly with a light drizzle. We had rain jackets, hats, gloves, a guide book, pocket knife, couple of bottles of water, handful of granola bars, etc. Cell phones, but of course no coverage. Not totally unprepared, but certainly not loaded for bear... or sheep, which was the predominant animal in the area.

About a mile into the walk a serious fog bank rolled in and visibility went from good to hand in front of face. It was quick, and it was frankly terrifying. We were following a trail but it was criss-crossed with sheep trails and offshoots, hard to follow with our undetailed guide book map and no compass. Things got turned around fast. Everything looked the same, just open fields and jagged rocks stretching to a gray infinity in every direction. I'm the outdoorsman between the wife and I and I felt totally freaked, but was trying not show that. We kept going for a bit, because I was looking for a landmark the guidebook said would mark a certain section of the trail. I actually caught myself thinking things along the lines of "Well, we'll just go another 5 minutes because the landmark is probably right around that corner..." but of course it never was. It was getting colder and we were getting wetter. I finally got my head out of my ass, suggested (in a chipper tone) that we might as well head back because it was starting to rain harder, and we stumble-fucked our way back to where we had parked, with my mind silently screaming the entire time that EVERYTHING LOOKS THE SAME AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GOING THE RIGHT WAY OR NOT!!!

Hit an outdoor store on the way back to the B & B and picked up a compass, better outdoor clothes, fire kit, emergency blanket, and some other odds and ends, and I carried a much more proper day pack from that point on. There is not a doubt in my mind that the potential to get lost and hypothermic that day was very real, possibly fatally so. I was going to post an AAR on ZS with pictures when we got back, but never bothered to. I never let on to my wife how close (I think) we were to being in real trouble that day. One badly twisted ankle or a few more wrong turns, you know?

So yeah, take going into the wilderness seriously, even if you're just going for a brief walk. Mother Nature gives not a shit. She will kill you if you fuck up - - and sometimes if you DIDN'T fuck up.

[Blast]

Being a wild foods instructor, I'm constantly getting emails from people saying "I hate modern society and am going to go live in the woods. What one book should I bring along to show me what to eat?" This is usually followed by an email argument about how they'll die of starvation in a few weeks and them calling me names for not helping. People don't realize/believe a 200 lb guy trying to survive in the woods needs ~20 squirrels every day to meet his caloric requirements. It's almost impossible to obtain those calories just from plants.

I've been foraging for over thirty years and I know I'd die of starvation in the woods. Maybe not as quickly as the average person, but in the long run without plenty of game animals I'd still starve. I wish Bear Grylls and Les Stroud would post their before and after body weights from their adventures. That would open a lot of eyes...hopefully.

-Blast

[Gingersam]

You get wet and cold with no way to dry out, add in hunger/starvation and you are pretty much dead. British weather is fun.

At least well done to the man for trying, he had a dream, prepared for it with training and tried to do it.

[jamoni]

You get wet and cold with no way to dry out, add in hunger/starvation and you are pretty much dead. British weather is fun.

At least well done to the man for trying, he had a dream, prepared for it with training and tried to do it.

"Do, or do not, there is no try."

[cdreid]

So the mma guy had some really really bad luck (try 118 degree temps before yo utalk smack please)
and the other guy had NO TIE to bear grills other than some hack reporter figured that would get them website hits..

BTW love you guys who hate on bear grills et al. If you watch those shows they a: give lots of warnings and b: are ALL about surviving long enough to get back to civilisation.

[BullOnParade]

So the mma guy had some really really bad luck (try 118 degree temps before yo utalk smack please)
and the other guy had NO TIE to bear grills other than some hack reporter figured that would get them website hits..

BTW love you guys who hate on bear grills et al. If you watch those shows they a: give lots of warnings and b: are ALL about surviving long enough to get back to civilisation.

"Surviving long enough to get back to civilization" for bear, is in between takes, when his camera crew offers him a snickers and a drink of water.

[dogbane]

So the mma guy had some really really bad luck (try 118 degree temps before yo utalk smack please)
and the other guy had NO TIE to bear grills other than some hack reporter figured that would get them website hits..

BTW love you guys who hate on bear grills et al. If you watch those shows they a: give lots of warnings and b: are ALL about surviving long enough to get back to civilisation.

I grew up in a place where 118 temps were not uncommon. I even ran track & field in that climate. But I kept hydrated. Evan Tanner didn't have bad luck. He failed to prepare, riding his motorcycle off away from his water and breaking down. Stupid mistake, not bad luck.

This guy was inspired by Grylls. It is a tenuous connection designed to get web hits, and Grylls isn't at fault. But anyone who looks to Grylls for survival instruction is making a potentially deadly bed to lie in. Follow his advice, and you might need a lot of good luck to even make it back to civilization. The kid who, inspired by Grylls, tore up his raincoat to flag his path as he moved further away from the search area could have died. It was luck and the tenacity of searchers that saved him.

[jamoni]

So the mma guy had some really really bad luck (try 118 degree temps before yo utalk smack please)
and the other guy had NO TIE to bear grills other than some hack reporter figured that would get them website hits..

BTW love you guys who hate on bear grills et al. If you watch those shows they a: give lots of warnings and b: are ALL about surviving long enough to get back to civilisation.

118? Been there, done that, wearing a K-pot and carrying a ruck. And you know what you need then?
WATER.
As for Bear, he gives bad advice and styles himself an expert. If he was talking about fixing cars, I wouldn't care, but he's talking about survival, and that's a recipe for disaster.

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

My eight year old daughter can pick holes in Bear's plans.

It's why we used to watch him.

I've done the 118F thing. In a small untinted glass and steel box directly over a heat source with no air con. Any drinking water would hit room temp not long after it was aquired. Not an easy game - heat stroke and severe performance limitations aplenty.

-

[angelofwar]

118deg.??? PFT! Last time I was in Iraq it got 147 in the sun, and about 135 in the shade. That's when (some of us) learned to drink warm water and not cold water...the guys that drank the cold water were getting their asses handed to them...I drank warm water, and ate light, high protein meals, and was a machine! (as much of a machine as a 150lb/6' guy could be...LOL)

[jamoni]

You know, the more I think about things like this, the more I consider calories and the way we use them.
Consider: we think nothing of getting up and going for a walk, or running out to the garage six times to do a project, or going swimming, or working in the yard.
We can do all this because we are awash in calories. We have more energy than we need, so we do stuff we don't need to do.
You rarely see primitives/pre-agricultural people acting like that. Even the kids.
If you consider their limited access to food, it makes sense to sit on your ass unless you are directly engaged in something that will feed you, protect you from harm, or get you laid.
That actually doesn't sound like a bad philosophy.