Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

[SlobberToofTigger]

Belgium could do so much better if they pulled their crap together.

If nothing else the food there is exceptional!

[phil_in_cs]

Belgium could do so much better if they pulled their crap together.

Hard to make creditors feel secure when you can't even get a government elected or installed. The rumors of splitting up keep flying which doesn't help either.

[Krustofski]

Belgium could do so much better if they pulled their crap together.

Hard to make creditors feel secure when you can't even get a government elected or installed. The rumors of splitting up keep flying which doesn't help either.

That's more or less what I meant.

[Valarius]

Moody's May Raise China's Credit Rating

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2 ... 058544.htm


Now, I know this article is dated November 11. But still, we need to remind ourselves that there are 150-plus countries out there, and the planet no longer revolves around Europe. George Washington knew it, Chiang Kai-Shek knew it, and the ZS knows it. I'm also looking up more info on Asia, because the flooding of Thailand electronic factories and the investigation of the FoxConn factory has GOT to have some kind of global impact.

[survivaljoe]

Nice to see this thread picking up again!

I know this doesn't officially belong here, however, seeing as the dedicated thread is closed and it is financially related, so be it:

@BreakingNews: Update: Arrests in Occupy Oakland protests rise to more than 400 - @Reuters http://t.co/VECmvmug

Looks like things are heating back up again.

[williaty]

Nice to see this thread picking up again!

I know this doesn't officially belong here, however, seeing as the dedicated thread is closed and it is financially related, so be it:

@BreakingNews: Update: Arrests in Occupy Oakland protests rise to more than 400 - @Reuters http://t.co/VECmvmug

Looks like things are heating back up again.

I had actually begun to wonder if Occupy was still even going on.

[the_alias]

Nice to see this thread picking up again!

I know this doesn't officially belong here, however, seeing as the dedicated thread is closed and it is financially related, so be it:

@BreakingNews: Update: Arrests in Occupy Oakland protests rise to more than 400 - @Reuters http://t.co/VECmvmug

Looks like things are heating back up again.

I had actually begun to wonder if Occupy was still even going on.

Just because the MSM get bored doesn't mean the world stops turning

That being said I think the winter and other pressures have probably taken some wind out of their sails.

[williaty]

Just because the MSM get bored doesn't mean the world stops turning

That being said I think the winter and other pressures have probably taken some wind out of their sails.

It's not just the MSM that got bored with it. The alt media did as well. It didn't just fall off the MSM's radio, it disappeared off the face of the earth. I've not gotten a story about it in any of my RSS feeds or from Stumble in weeks.

[phil_in_cs]

Just because the MSM get bored doesn't mean the world stops turning

That being said I think the winter and other pressures have probably taken some wind out of their sails.

It's not just the MSM that got bored with it. The alt media did as well. It didn't just fall off the MSM's radio, it disappeared off the face of the earth. I've not gotten a story about it in any of my RSS feeds or from Stumble in weeks.

I see stories about the movement all the time. Most are trivial stuff - druggie/homeless person gets in trouble at an occupy camp - so I've never felt it was worth posting. Recall the "occupy thread" here was locked and buried for politics.

[Kommander]

Things are likely going to heat up again this spring/summer with it being an election year in the US and Europe still slowly coming unglued.

[Manovv]

OWS will come back in spring, but how strong it will be?

[TacAir]

(redacted)

[phil_in_cs]

Please remember the OWS thread was shutdown for politics. This thread is valuble, and if posts on OWS continue you will see your posts moved out to the Random Stupid Bullshit thread.

[phil_in_cs]

Greece is refusing "oversight", causing the markets to tumble
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-3 ... -fall.html

The Czechs join the UK in refusing to sign the new EU Fiscal Compact.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16803157

[SeerSavant]

Greece is refusing "oversight", causing the markets to tumble
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-3 ... -fall.html

The Czechs join the UK in refusing to sign the new EU Fiscal Compact.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16803157

Kinda different ends of the same viewpoint... Greece is reluctant, I would think as a matter of human nature... In essence, they are failing, and any "help" is going to come with a great many strings attached... That may or may not help them survive this, but the strings will probably never go away.
Czechs probably are worried that entering into this union may have benefits, but having to support failing states, or bail out failed members without much of a choice (more strings) is not a pretty ideal.

It's kind of like an identity crisis... Strength in numbers by joining, economic stability (for the most part) but a sizable relinquishing of control over your own economic choices... In other words, giving away several key components of being a "sovereign" nation...
The argument could be made on all fiat or debt based economies, but in the EUs case, you wonder how much of it is given away...
I'm sure some would argue that any loss of control is a loss of sovereignty, others would claim that economics are now global, and it's no different than selling debt to other nations...

In the end, I wonder if Identity is move valuable to them than their stability?

Just musing, don't know enough about the different political/economic/public priorities that each state sees as a dominant factor in their choices...




To me it's the same as turning over your finances to a group's decision that could have very good returns on investment, but in the same act, you are turning over your choices in the matter to others... You may not fail, but your loose your independence...
How important a national identity and independence probably varies, but I'm sure is a strong point of argument behind the scenes.

[raptor]

LIBOR is a good (but very rough) indicator of overall systemic liquidity. If the LBOR rate is up liquidity is down and vice versa.

Note LIBOR rates are heading down. This is IMO good.

[max v]

Belgium could do so much better if they pulled their crap together.

Hard to make creditors feel secure when you can't even get a government elected or installed. The rumors of splitting up keep flying which doesn't help either.

True and indicative of where Belgium is at right now. At the core of the problem is the language barrier and the animosity between the different communities (Flanders, Wallonie and Brussels) which largely stems from the uneven distribution of federal funds and portfolios between these 3 communities (technically 4 if you include the East Kantons).

But on sunday we demonstrated our strength by taking gold, silver and bronze at the world championship cyclocross in Koksijde. We're counting on y'all to put up a fight next year in Louisville.

And on monday the unions held a national strike, so we can unite you guys. Please don't go...

[raptor]

Germany wants budget oversight and control in Greece. Sounds like a reasonable for a "debtor in possession" situation.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... MIDDLENews

Ms. Merkel said late on Monday after the summit that strict outside controls are needed "if a country doesn't comply with requirements. That hasn't been the case with Portugal or Ireland," which also have euro-zone bailout programs, "but it is the case with Greece, and that has made such supervision necessary," she said.

Greek politicians and media have reacted angrily in recent days to Germany's pressure, viewing it as a humiliating curb on national sovereignty. Athens newspaper To Vima called it a demand for "unconditional surrender" of Greece's budget, while other commentators brought up Germany's bloody wartime occupation of Greece.

The tensions between Berlin and Athens are a symptom of a fading confidence around Europe that Greece's bailout program will work—but also of a failure by policy elites to come up with an alternative to ever-deeper austerity.

The phrase pride cometh before the fall come to mind in regards to Greece. This what happens when a debtor is not cooperative. It should be interesting to see what happens.

[loimprevisto]

New York Attorney General files lawsuit against big banks for fraudulent use of electronic mortgage system. Apparently most other states have been negotiating deals to settle with the banks out of court for billions of dollars in fines. This could end up being a very significant step in finding out exactly what was happening behind the scenes during the heights of the mortgage crisis.

The financial industry created MERS in 1995 to allow financial institutions to evade local county recording fees, avoid the hassle and paperwork of publicly recording mortgage transfers, and facilitate the rapid sale and securitization of mortgages. MERS operates as a membership organization, and most large companies that participate in the mortgage industry – by originating loans, buying or investing in loans, or servicing loans – are members, including JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac. Over 70 million loans nationally have been registered in MERS System, including about 30 million currently active loans.

Through their membership in MERS, these companies avoided publicly recording the purchase and sale of mortgages by designating MERS Inc. – a shell company with no economic interest in any mortgage loan – as the "nominal" mortgagee of the loan in the public records. Instead, MERS members were supposed to log mortgage transfers in the MERS private electronic registry. The basic theory behind MERS is that, because MERS Inc. serves as a "nominee" (or agent) for most major lenders, it remains the "mortgagee" in the public records regardless of how often the loan is sold or transferred among MERS members. Thus, although MERSCORP has only about 70 employees, MERS Inc. serves as the mortgagee of record for tens of millions of loans registered in the MERS System.

[phil_in_cs]

Greece takes step closer to default
By Kerin Hope in Athens, Alex Barker in Brussels and Quentin Peel in Munich

Lucas Papademos, the Greek premier, failed to make party leaders accept harsh terms in return for a second €130bn bail-out, pushing Athens closer to a disorderly default as early as next month.
Greek television reported that Mr Papademos has set a deadline of midday on Monday for the three leaders to let him know whether they agree in principle with the proposed austerity measures, before he meets them again later in the day.

more at the link http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cf397bb8-5003 ... z1lYbsQ0Bt

[TC]

Greek parties delay bailout talks despite EU threats

(Reuters) - Greek political parties delayed yet again on Tuesday making the tough choice of accepting painful reforms in return for a new international bailout to avoid a chaotic default, seemingly deaf to EU warnings that the euro zone can live without Athens.

With a series of deadlines come and gone, leaders of the three parties in the coalition of Prime Minister Lucas Papademos postponed what was supposed to be a crunch meeting until Wednesday.

On a day when protesters burned a German flag in Athens, Chancellor Angela Merkel tried to ease growing tension by promising she would not try to force Greece out of the euro. But the Dutch prime minister said the currency bloc could take a Greek exit in its stride.

One party official blamed Tuesday's delay, which is likely to enrage euro zone leaders desperate to tie up the 130 billion euro rescue after months of argument, on missing paperwork - the same reason given when the meeting was postponed from Monday to Tuesday.

"The reason is that the political leaders will not have the time to assess the measures in the bailout," said the party official, who declined to be named.

The heads of the conservative, socialist and far-right parties had yet to receive the draft agreement with the European Union and IMF only half an hour before the 1900 GMT scheduled start of the meeting on Tuesday...(continued at link)

[SlobberToofTigger]

"Europe is poor so should live within its means"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16918000

The beauty of old people is that they no longer care what you think about what they say. Mahathir Mohamad is right on target. Both Europe and the US are not adding to the world economy equal to the amount we are consuming in any real way. The GDP of the West is inflated by services rather than solid goods and we have no choice but to reduce our standards of living to meet our real output.

[phil_in_cs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16971733

Greek austerity plans not ready, say eurozone ministers

Greece has been convulsed by strikes, protests and riots over existing austerity measures

Eurozone ministers have cast doubt over a new Greek austerity plan, as they meet in Brussels to decide on a 130bn euro ($170bn; £110bn) bailout fund.

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said the Greek plan was "not at a stage where it can be signed off".

The Greek government brokered a deal after days of negotiations between the parties in its fragile coalition.

More at the link

[survivaljoe]

Got this over the twitter:

@BreakingNews: Athens: bank branch, movie theater, book store and several other shops in main business district torched as protest spreads - @djfxtrader

Edit:

@BreakingNews: Greek parliament approves austerity bill needed for EU/IMF bailout - @reuters, @ap