Help an 18 yr old pick her first vehicle!

by **Lambykins** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:41 am

Okay, here's the deal...
My step-daughter is about to turn 18. Her dad plans to give her one of his cars that he currently does not use.
Problem: The ONLY thing he drives are Mercedes sedans built between 1968 and 1986 and they HAVE to be diesel.
He plans to eventually convert her sedans into alternative fuel vehicles (greasol). He has 3 Mercedes sedans.
That's cool and all,but the kid wants something a bit more...."fun" and appropriate for her than a heavy tank,lol!
She really does not like these old,bulky sedans.
Her dad has told her she can sell/trade the Mercedes IF:
Vehicle she gets does NOT have the "computer brainbox",etc. It has to be from pre-1986.
It MUST be diesel.
She is open to small pick-ups,cars,vans,whatever.
Suggestions we can research? We have until the end of March.

by **Doctorr Fabulous** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:55 am

I can recommend the Diesel Rabbits and Golfs, as they are (reasonably) cheap, reliable, and have massive support forums and spare parts availability. I am not sure about your area, but she's got options for just about anything she wants to change or replace, and knowing her father, he'll LOVE the mods that can be done for fuel economy, including (IIRC) hydrogen, gasifiers, straight ethanol, bio-diesel, multi-fuel, and in one extreme case, steam power.

The older diesel Toyota pickups are nice and durable, and the Nissans (i think they were all gas) are long lived. My buddy just changed his first set of radiator tubes since his grandfather bought the truck in '89. I'm not sure if it has a brain box, but I am quite certain if there is a computer in there, it sits in the corner in abject fear of the giant scary number on the odometer. (230,000 miles was about a year ago)

Those are about the only two I can speak for, though I hear Honda small cars are just really hard to kill.

by **bonanacrom** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:12 am

Small pick-up, when I had mine many, many years ago the young ladies where always stealing it from me.

by **majorhavoc** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:38 am

Lambykins wrote:the kid wants something a bit more...."fun" and appropriate for her than a heavy tank,lol!

What she wants is a Camaro, a Nissan 350Z, or a Dodge Charger. And when she was 9, she wanted to eat bowl fulls of candy and stay up all night. Speaking as a father, you role is most definitely not to get her what she wants, but what she needs.

The two prime criteria for a teen's first car, as outlined by no less an automotive authority than Tom and Ray Magliozzi, AKA Click and Clack the Tappet bothers, are as follows:

1) It has to be really, really safe.
2) It has to be really, really uncool.

Why 2)? Because if she's with friends doing things you really don't want to know about, and there's a choice of vehicles, any choice at all, they won't be in her car, which means she won't be the one who's driving.

I'd add to the list 3) reliable and 4) cheap to repair. This conundrum screams a well worn Toyota Camry sedan. She'll thank you for it some day.

by **Bonecrusher Doc** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:44 am

I'd say stick with the Mercedes.

I know when my daughter turns 16 I want her driving something heavy, not prone to rollover, and with lots of airbags.

by **jamoni** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:37 am

It's a recession, and she's complaining that the free car isn't good enough for her?
I'd just give her the Mercedes, and she can do whatever with it. I'd also make her responsible for all costs other than the initial vehicle.
So if she wants to get a 3000 GT, she can damn well pay for it and cover the insurance.
I'd also make it clear that this is the only freeby, ever. From here on out, getting around is her problem.

by **thesupremeking** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:43 am

So glad my girls are still too little. They will drive the safest car I can find that is SUPER uncool. Cool cars get kids hurt.

Source:
I own an insurance agency.

by **maxxb** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:27 am

I love how people always seem to think if a teenager gets a "fun" car they are going to end up dead in a week. My first car was a Camaro with an engine I built pushing over 400 hp, the second and actually owned at the same time until I was 20 (then sold the Camaro) was a 944 Porsche. Both cars were tons of fun, reliable, the Porsche was good on gas and the Camaro was a gas hog though, and I paid for both of them myself in cash. The only accident in either car was when some middle aged guy with a pony tail backed up into my Porsche while I was parked!

That being said I would love one of those old Benz diesels for a commuter. Currently we have a few trucks, a Taurus I inherited, a few GM G Bodies, a 59 Buick and a couple motorcycles.

by **thesupremeking** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:45 am

maxxb wrote:I love how people always seem to think if a teenager gets a "fun" car they are going to end up dead in a week.

It happens. A LOT. Just because it didn't to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen frequently.
I held a teenagers hand while he died in the street after doing something stupid in a Camaro, I work in insurance and unfortunately can personally tell you that it DOES happen MORE frequently in a "fun" car. That is an irrefutable fact friend based on numbers called statistics. You or anyone else are not immune to statistics, people just like you and me become those statistics all the time. This website is about lowering risks when logical, I fail to see how lowering a potential risk for your child on their very first car is a bad decision.

by **Doctorr Fabulous** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:06 pm

Yeah, having her keep the Mercedes isn't a terrible idea either. But I will second that, if I'd had half the brain i have now when I was young, I would have kept my Frontier. But Come on, how many of her friends are driving a Mercedes?

by **lowjohn19** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:22 pm

Those older Mercedes are pretty bad ass. Paint it black put a nice set of wheels on it. Now I want one.

by **Oneswunk** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:32 pm

This may sound a bit harsh and im ok with that. If she don't like it tell her to fuck off.. Who the fuck bitches about a free Mercedes? :roll:

by **Lambykins** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:34 pm

The problem with the Mercedes sedans is that although they are safe---built like tanks---they are sluggish and "heavy" to drive if you understand what I mean. Also, there are many little things wrong with them...they continually break down and are expensive to fix.
She is thinking maybe a small pick-up or jeep type vehicle. BUT, following her fathers' parameters,it HAS to be diesel. Heck, if she got an old Chevy pick-up, I could work on it...as long as it wasn't a diesel.
She isn't feeling "entitled" to a car. Her dad gave her older sister one of the Mercedes when she turned 18 and the kid HATED it. She was okay with it being an older car and all that...it was the "sluggishness" that bother her. It also broke down on her...had to have the transmission replaced...so she gave it back to her dad. It runs now, but again, it still has that sluggish thing happening...as they all do.
As far as safety...they have seat belts, but these cars are ALL pre-air bag vehicles.

If I had the money, I would get her a gasoline powered vehicle. Probably a Mini-Cooper---she loves those things.

by **Oneswunk** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:40 pm

Well if theres problems with them then giving her one is not the best idea. A nice jeep cherokee would be great but good luck finding one that don't run on gas. As doc said the vw rabbit is a good choice with lots of after market support.

by **grennels** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:04 pm

18 year old girl? Sluggish is good.

Not quite so sluggish but I put my daughters in -

1) Pontiac Bonneville

2) Buick Roadmaster

Daughter #2 appreciated the Roadmaster when she centerpunched a deer a couple
years ago.

by **maxxb** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:07 pm

Oh I know that maybe statistically there is that chance, the thing is I am sure if you look at any age group for those types of cars there are more than likely more wrecks than in say those that drive something like a Taurus (proportionaly speaking of course considering there would be a larger segment of Taurus drivers). That fact is statistically a certain number of kids are going to get in wrecks and it does not matter what they drive. I had friends almost killed in trucks and sedans, I had another friend killed in a car very similar to the Mercedes shown above, by all rights a "safe" car.

Also on the sluggishness of the old Benz just about any older diesel is going to be sluggish just the nature of the beast. Also the inherent suspension properties of the Benz are going to make it feel different than any other vehicle these kids are use to. Remember these cars were for the most part built for comfort not performance or handling (though they do build some awesome performance rigs) that makes for a softer ride that increases that heavy sluggish feel, even more so with an under powered diesel under the hood. You can change the suspension components to help with the handling issues. The gearing could also be played with to help with the sluggish feeling of the car but more than likely that is more work than you would want to do. Parts would always be expensive for it. It honestly fits your criteria best and with the money you would spend on getting into another rig you could fix the issues in the Benz.

Heck in my shop I have an old GM 5.7 diesel talk about a pig, it is getting replaced with a 403 for now while the diesel block is being rebuilt for gas and turbos. In a second body I might go crazy and stick a Duramax under the hood to have a diesel with balls in a car.

by **Tperkins** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:13 pm

I'd go with a old diesel pickup. Easy to work on, simplistic, and diesel.

by **Doctorr Fabulous** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:23 pm

The other great thing about those small diesels is that almost every mod that makes them more efficient, also makes them zippier. [url]tdiclub.com[/url] has all kinds of mods, from eco-cruisers running biodiesel at 60 miles per gallon, to insane rally-spec gravel-eaters making Mustangs look slow and getting 30mpg while they race. Without going to either extreme, you can get a decently quick Rabbit, Golf, or Jetta that also gets 40mpg. Passats are a bit bigger, if she things the old Jettas are too small, and in your AO I don't think an all-wheel-drive like the Audis will be wasted expense. The only real difference between the Audi and the Volkswagen is the trim level and the AWD, and the expense that comes with both.

Also, if the fella wants a low-time investment way to make biodiesel, I was talking turbo-diesels with a USMC captain a few weeks back. We were both filling up, and he had questions about my TDI Jetta, so we stopped and chatted a bit. After his inital investment of about $400, he started makign his own bio-diesel at home. His average cost was $.50 per gallon, and it took him two hours to make 40 gallons. It took longer at first, but as he learned what he was doing better, he said it become part of his Saturday morning chores. He had just purchased a new tractor, and was looking to up his output to fuel his wife's truck, his Rabbit (on mile number 200,600 when we talked) and his farm tractor all on biodiesel. I believe he was also getting a tax credit for every gallon he made on his own, but I don't know if that was from the state of North Carolina, or from the Fed. It was significant enough, IIRC, that his investment into the parts and chemicals (which was split with two other farmers) paid for itself in six months.

by **Hunter213** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:36 pm

grennels wrote:18 year old girl? Sluggish is good.

Not quite so sluggish but I put my daughters in -

1) Pontiac Bonneville

2) Buick Roadmaster

Daughter #2 appreciated the Roadmaster when she centerpunched a deer a couple
years ago.

Pontiac Bonneville not sluggish in the least. 110 top speed for the non supercharged version. If you want safety stick with the Benz. I was in a rollover in a mid 80s benz. That car barley had any dents in it. I wasn't wearing a seatbelt but was perfectly fine and the car rolled three times and ended up side down in a 5 foot ditch. I walked it off and was fine. And if the engines are rebuilt or tuned up nice they aren't the fastest but they got some go to em.

by **majorhavoc** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:57 pm

Diesel rabbits, Mercedes from the 60s and 70s, old Toyota PU's. I can't think of any diplomatic way to put this, so I'll just come out with it.

It's 2012. How any car not equipped with at least front seat airbags is even part of the conversation about a first vehicle for a teen driver is a real head-scratcher to me.

by **TacAir** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:01 pm

First - have her listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-GFqhCq2HA

(Cringe) A Dodge PU with a Cummings diesel comes to mind, but then my idea of fun may not be the same as a 18 Y/O high school kid. However, you are in Texas, land of big hats, big belt buckles and big trucks.

A VW might be the ticket, but you will be staring out some serious out of pocket change for the difference between a recent make and a 25+ Y/O Benz.

There are a lot of diesel vehicles made,but not many were domestic or imported.

by **Hunter213** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:06 pm

majorhavoc wrote:It's 2012. How any car not equipped with at least front seat airbags is even part of the conversation about a first vehicle for a teen driver is a real head-scratcher to me.

My 83 Toyota pickup has no airbags what so ever.

And PS cummins are big and expensive. Especially it it's going to be a while before its converted to alternative fuel. Though you can't argue the safety of big ok trucks when getting in an accident. There just built so beefy. What about an older Blazer or Jeep. Both had diesel engines, you can get em in 4x4 and they take a good beating. I have a two door blazer and my first car I ever bought was a 2 door jeep Cherokee

by **majorhavoc** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:12 pm

Hunter213 wrote:
majorhavoc wrote:It's 2012. How any car not equipped with at least front seat airbags is even part of the conversation about a first vehicle for a teen driver is a real head-scratcher to me.

My 83 Toyota pickup has no airbags what so ever.

And PS cummins are big and expensive. Especially it it's going to be a while before its converted to alternative fuel. Though you can't argue the safety of big ok trucks when getting in an accident. There just built so beefy. What about an older Blazer or Jeep. Both had diesel engines, you can get em in 4x4 and they take a good beating. I have a two door blazer and my first car I ever bought was a 2 door jeep Cherokee

OK, but I guess my point is you wouldn't put your child behind the wheel of a 83 Toyota PU would you?

by **Tperkins** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:05 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
Hunter213 wrote:
majorhavoc wrote:It's 2012. How any car not equipped with at least front seat airbags is even part of the conversation about a first vehicle for a teen driver is a real head-scratcher to me.

My 83 Toyota pickup has no airbags what so ever.

And PS cummins are big and expensive. Especially it it's going to be a while before its converted to alternative fuel. Though you can't argue the safety of big ok trucks when getting in an accident. There just built so beefy. What about an older Blazer or Jeep. Both had diesel engines, you can get em in 4x4 and they take a good beating. I have a two door blazer and my first car I ever bought was a 2 door jeep Cherokee

OK, but I guess my point is you wouldn't put your child behind the wheel of a 83 Toyota PU would you?

I see your point, but in my mind it would depend on how the OP taught/raised their daughter. In my case, I started practicing driving with my dad at age 13/14, got my permit on my 15th birthday, and got my license on my 16th birthday. Bought my 99 Dakota (myself) about 3 months before my 16th birthday so I could familarize myself with it before really getting my license. My point? I dont see a huge problem in buying a person a vechile such as an old truck, a 83' Toyota, ect, if they have been driving with parents, borrowed cars, ect. Now, would I throw a person never having driven in such a vehicle? I'd say probably not but it all depends. If you learn to drive in an older vehicle, even one with a manual, you will become a better driver. You'll actually understand the concepts of driving better. Now, might a 2012 Tahoe or whatever be a much safer vehicle? Probably, in terms of statistics, but I'd prefer an older one. I think making her start out with the Mercedes for a little bit, and then she can trade up to something that suits what she desires. Maybe just take the stero out to play it safe :lol:

Coming from someone around that age, it's not always the type of vehicle that gets you injured, it's how you've been raised to behave. I've done a few dumb things in my truck as a teen, but afterwords I really realized how idiotic they were, and never did such things again. My work alongside our EMS has set shit straight in my head as well, I highly suggest letting/making her watch some of the crash videos that are out there. Nothing like someone's brains and dismembered limbs scattered across a roadway to knock some sense into you.

But anyway, an older truck is what I would suggest. Pretty safe, reliable, easy to maintain (she can learn), cheap insurance IIRC, and isn't some fast sports car. Just let her familarize herself with it, as power everything vs power nothing is a very different experience. I'd assume you're of the mindset of most on her and have raised her well, so I don't think some of the aformentioned worries are a big deal, but I may be wrong. I'd rather be in a 1980 F250 and get t-boned than be in a toyota camry and get t-boned. If you're in the truck, the other person might just get wedged under the truck. I've seen it before, totalled the 20" lifted mall-crawler's suspension :lol: