Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

For those who live in areas where firearms are not an option and those that are smart enough to have a back up.

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Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Whackpack7 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:35 pm

Background:
I have been looking at these knives now for quite a while to use in the line of work I am in. I was told that they are cheap and not a bad knife to have if you want something small and for self defense. I've looked around on the forum and had difficulty locating any info on these knives, so I went to a few dealers locally and got their opinion. I ended up ordering one of these. I made my purchase from [url]http//www.outdoorpros.com[/url] and paid $43.82 total with shipping. Not too bad of a price for the item when Cabelas and like retailers sells the knife alone for $49.99. The knife its self can be located at many defense and weapons stores, and you can expect to pay anywhere from $30 to $60 for it.


Use:
The knife was designed by Ka-Bar for LEOs that wanted a backup knife in the event that their primary weapon was coming into compromise, or had already been compromised. It had to be easy to conceal for the LEO also. They were not going for a BMFK, something small and simple that would be just enough to get an officer out of a dangerous position. It was intended to be placed on the opposite of your dominant hand (the side your holster would be located) so that in the event of an attack, your dominant hand may be trying to protect your weapon, and your nondominant hand is reaching for the knife. For clarification, this knife really only has one use, and that is to stab someone with. It's short blade length and pistol grip design make it awkward to use for carving or whittling. It was designed with self defense as its sole use.

Specs (From Ka-Bar):
Weight: 0.35 lbs
Blade Length: 2-5/16"
Overall Length: 5-5/8"
Edge Angle: 15 Degrees
Shape: Drop Point
Steel: AUS 8A Stainless
Grind: Hollow
Handle Material: Zytel
HRC: 57-59 CR
Blade Thickness: 0.125"
Made in Taiwan :oops:

I purchased the straight blade in black for clarification.

What Ya Get:
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And unboxed:
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First Impression
Upon taking the knife out of the packaging and examining the bade its self, I noted that the blade except for the edge is covered in a blackening material that almost resembles powder coating, it looks very sleek and has a nice texture to it. The Zytel handle looks very nice and has a subdued color to it, but almost feels like a cheap plastic in a way, nothing major to detract thus far though. The sheath is very nice and the knife fits exceptionally well. It is snug like a SERPA-Type holster and there is no noise or rattle from the knife, yet it is very easy to draw out when needed. The sheath is also very rugged in appearance with an oversized reversible clip.

Here's what I saw:
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Clip side:
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Flat side:
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Ergonomics
I was intrigued at this knife mainly due to the fact that it's draw method was strikingly similar to how a LEO would draw his service sidearm (no surprise there). Since a LEO was already trained one way, why change when they can adapt to that method? I had to try it to see how similar it was. Honestly, the only true difference is the size. It takes a little getting use to drawing something this small and light when you are use to pulling out a full frame handgun filled with .45 APC. Once you get the hang of it though, its second nature, just like drawing a side arm. The curvature of the knife also adds to how you are intended to use it in defense mode. There is a cutaway where the index finger would go, and 4 ridges across the top of the knife for your thumb. It was intended that the user would grasp the handle tightly with a fist (the strongest position of the hand) and then punch straight on with it. The curvature of the blade to handle allows so that a straight on punch would actually thrust the blade into the attacker. Also, whether you draw the knife as designed, or upside down (blade by your little finger), slashing with it is also much simpler than would be with a fixed or folding style knife. The theory is that any other knife requires the wrist to be bent which reduces the strength that can be expelled by the joint and leaves room for error.

Handle
The handle is made of a newly developed subdued weather resistant material called Zytel. In my opinion, it almost feels like plastic. The handle is however very easy to grip in all conditions I have had it in. Each side of the handle is held in by 3 torx bolts that can be removed. Ka-Bar provides the equipment necessary for that in the box as well as 2 replacement bolts. If you desire, you can replace the handle or change what color it is by ordering the various colors Ka-Bar has created for different uniform colors.

Blade
The blade of this knife is made of AUS 8A Stainless Steel, and is very rugged. It possesses a 15 degree blade surface and comes coated in a lubricant from the factory to help stop and corrosion or rust that may occur should the device come into contact with moisture. The remaining sides of the blade are covered in a black power coating type material that has a rough texture to it. No doubt, this is to keep the reflection possibility down and also to help insure the durability of the steel. Printed on the left side is the Ka-Bar logo and further back at the ricasso is the Ka-Bar name. Both are printed in a gold-type color.

Sheath
The sheath definitely had a lot of thought and design go into it. It is a handgun holster adapted for a knife. The knife fits in very snugly with no rattle yet can be drawn swiftly and effectively in one fluid motion. The metal clip of the sheath has the Ka-Bar logo printed upon it, and it can be moved to which ever side the wearer wishes. Weapon retention is very important in the modern world, so the clip also has a reverse facing barb that stops someone from removing the entire sheath/knife combo without having the intention to do so. This would also be useful to prevent the user from losing their knife. There are also several aftermarket holsters that an individual can purchase if desire exists. The one I have considered is a ankle holster for this knife. I do however know moving the knife from the side to the ankle will increase draw time and it will be more obvious to the attacker what is going on. Ankle holster sells for $10 to $20 online.

Concealment
This is a very important aspect for this knife since Ka-Bar claims that it is very easy to hide and that would play a vital aspect in protecting the wearer (if your attacker notices, they will take it away too). I feel that pictures will help more than my words so I took three pictures showing it attached to various locations with various ensembles. Ka-Bar recommends a LEO or military member wear it behind a mag pouch for the most concealment.

Concealed behind pistol mag pouch on tactical vest with pistol belt:
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Concealed behind pistol mag pouch on 5.11 Taclite Pants with Blackhawk Riggers Belt:
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Concealed behind Blackhawk Riggers Belt on 5.11 Taclite Pants (clipped onto waistband):
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Best way IMO, if you can, just wear your shirt untucked... Covers it entirely. Didn't post a pic of that, because well, just look in a mirror you see the same thing with or without.

Conclusion
Okay. Well, if you are looking for a knife that you can wear and forget about until you need it (hopefully you never will), or if you are in a job where you wouldn't mind haing a knife that will have your back, this is a good consideration. I can't say that its the ultimate EDC, because thats a lie, its a self defense knife. You can't really intend to use it for cutting or carving and would have to carry a pocket knife for that. I honestly have no problems with carrying a pocket knife and this knife together, the Ka-Bar weighs 0.35 pounds and after a while you totally forget its there. The price for this knife is also quite decent given the materials and the brand name it is coming from. It draws easily, stores easily, and is a very sexy knife to own. You won't break the bank with it, and it comes from a trusted name. Only drawback is the handle, this is my opinion. Zytel appears to just mean cheap plastic to me, though as I stated it won't slip even when wet, so it does its job. I'm just not a fan of the appearance.

I hope you take this review as a review of a self defense knife, and not of an EDC, because like I stated, it is not an EDC everything knife.

Oh yea... 4/5
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby mule » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:14 pm

Nice review. Very thorough. I'll pass it on to my LEO friends.

For NON LEOs...
Since it is still visible most people can get away with wearing it. Which is good. You may have to look hard, but LEOs shouldn't have any issues with it.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Woods Walker » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:53 am

Nice review.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby phil_in_cs » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:08 am

mule wrote:Nice review. Very thorough. I'll pass it on to my LEO friends.

For NON LEOs...
Since it is still visible most people can get away with wearing it. Which is good. You may have to look hard, but LEOs shouldn't have any issues with it.


Knife laws vary by state, and here in Texas the key is the blade length and not visible or not. Since the TDI is short, it is perfectly acceptable to wear concealed.

Another nice thing about the TDI is Ka-Bar makes trainers for them so you can practice rolling around and fighting your partners without cutting anyone up.

I had a set of kydex made for them, that holds them pretty much parallel to my belt which both aids in concealment and in accessing.

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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby mule » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:55 am

You are lucky... In CO and I think KS where I work, the handle has to be visible, AND we have blade length restrictions in CO.
I like the trainer idea. I wouldn't want to roll with a sharp.

How does the steel hold and edge?

PS, that's the 1480 right???
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby ForgeCorvus » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:22 pm

That is one nasty little bastard, its just perfect to ruin some scumbag's day

You're all lucky, we have stiff laws about knives over here. If its not a sub-three inch blade non-locking folder we need "good reason" to carry it (no such thing as a 'Defensive weapon' either).


A knife is a tool..... This just happens to be a tool for defence
I'm English, our Government doesn't trust us to have real guns........or decent pocket knives for that matter
Good job theres no such thing as a Trebuchet licence :D

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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Whackpack7 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:34 pm

mule wrote:You are lucky... In CO and I think KS where I work, the handle has to be visible, AND we have blade length restrictions in CO.
I like the trainer idea. I wouldn't want to roll with a sharp.

How does the steel hold and edge?

PS, that's the 1480 right???


The black with straight edge is the 1480, yes.

I have not owned this knife long enough to know how well it holds its blade, but I can tell you that it is very likely it will last a while. The HRC for this knife is between 57 and 59. Most high end sports knives land about a 62 and there are very few knives to exceed 70. 100 would represent the theoretical maximum of this scale. This means 2 things to me:

1) It will hold its sharp blade very well.
2) It will be more difficult to sharpen than a lesser quality knife, simply because it is a tougher metal.

If any other owners can support or refute this, feel free to chime in.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Speedyfish » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:25 pm

I posted an LEO review here: http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2011/05/17/ ... -part-iii/

It is pretty self explanatory.

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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Whackpack7 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:31 pm

Speedyfish wrote:I posted an LEO review here: http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2011/05/17/ ... -part-iii/

It is pretty self explanatory.

Randall


The view for a LEO is obviously different than for your civvie.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby gameover419 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:18 pm

This knife is nice I have both the big and small one. I know the man who made this knife John Benner he owns a shooting school in Ohio One of the best shooting schools in the country. http://tdiohio.com/home_page/ is there web site If anyone has a chance to go GO. I have been to their handgun 1-3 and it was great. They also have out west point pistol team go once a year to learn tactical rifle and pistol. But anyways good review.
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Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Orphancow » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:13 am

Nice review I have been thinking about buying one for me and one for my little brother in the Army. Thanks for the review
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Speedyfish » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:25 am

Thanks, guys. My experience wasn't great, but then I'm in a uniform. As a CCW, for which I did not review, it may work fine. YMMV.

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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Rednex » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:18 am

I have the same knife i use as part of the work EDC. I work in a millwork shop have it cliped to my belt and use it for cutting open boxes and skid wraps basic stuff. Sharpened my pencile with it a few times and shaved off some wood braceing just to see how it did. The grip angle can make some cutting task harder then they are with a normal knife but all in all it ain't to bad.

The reason i got it i wanted a fixed blade for EDC and wanted something that wasn't "knife looking".
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:22 pm

Good review, dude. Way cool job.

What sold me on the KB TDI Last Defence was it's use as a primary weapon retention system was this video...


(relevant bit starts @ 5:15)

Which I'd come across while browsing a local site...

http://www.kitbag.com.au/products/KA%252dBAR-TDI-Last-Defence-Knife.html

Previously I'd never been a fan of this type of knife design, sure I'd seen plenty of master knife fighters/trainers/designers/Phil use and endorse that angled shape but I wasn't sold on it for me personally. Now in the video (as noted from 5:15 on) they're doing timed shootouts, "draw and stab" between a strong hand tactical folder vs a strong hand TDI Last Defence. The Last defence killed the pig (as expected I guess) but what struck me at the time was just how good the little knife would be weak hand/weak side draw (as noted in the excellent OP) when you and someone else had hold of your pistol.

I think it definitely has a place tucked behind the weak side mags on a dedicated molle war belt, even if the rig already includes a large dedicated fixed blade fighter. To my way of thinking having the little Last Defence purely as a weapon retention system would simplify training as well, especially if a fixed blade fighter is already part of the regime.

From the link you'll see that Kitbag only brought in the small serrated version. I can't see the point for what it's designed to do. Looks like I'll be trying to aquire a similar sized unserrated one in foliage from teh states after I get some other higher priority spends out of the way because DO WANT.

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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby phil_in_cs » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:09 pm

It is also a good punch dagger for places a punch dagger is illegal. You just load it up and hit people, and you inflict serious wounds. You can get more complicated and effective than that, but for little to no training, just grip it and punch.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:43 pm

I will put this here in order to keep the TDI Last Defence stuff in one thread. If doing so is contrary to the OP's (Whackpack7) desires
then I gladly yield the floor, wishing no offence.

I had a few minutes to kill (hadn't had a lunchbreak yet), I was in Midvale, there was room to park the 8 tonne rigid I was driving and there was a sign that said AREA 51(% OFF SALE).

A little glum that my new playmate The Scrapyard Dogfather had not turned up yet and sulking because it looked like my Leatherman Kick was not only lost but discontinued I thought, "What the hell" and entered one of my favourite places...

http://www.kitbag.com.au/

...After a chat with the pleasant and very well informed gentleman behind the counter I walked out with this...

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^Yeah yeah, I know - It's Coyote and yeah yeah I know I was gonna wait and get a black non-serrated one in from the states but what ya gonna do?

[DISCLAIMER:]
I live in Australia, Western Australia to be specific and it's important to understand something.
I was sold this knife for civillian use because of it's utility as a skinner and sinew saw. Look at the picture below and you will see that I am not unfamiliar with skinning knives and such. The fact that it's "liek all tacticool and shit" is just a fun plus.

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For academic purposes I have at times occassionally enjoyed the practice of varying forms of iajutsu ("fast draw") at various levels of participation as well as traditional japanese knife or traditional phillipino stick fighting and also enjoy talking shit on the internet about guns, knives, maritial arts and the hardware (gear) and software (philosophy) involved in combining those three things. Often these discussions involve imaginary zombies and ways to combat them. For fun.

That being said, one of those pieces of software or philosphies in recent times has turned to the use of specialty knives to augment pistolcraft. Anything discussed below is for academic purposes for these same sort of discussions and any training is implied to be of a "hobby" type pursuit.

To illustrate my mindset and intent in these matters while I was engaged in what what I am about to recount my dog began barking to alert me to some noise out the front of my house. Before I went to investigate I unhooked the little knife and put it down on the bench.

**sigh**

It should also be noted that after a discussion with the pleasant and very well informed gentleman behind the counter and after looking through a catalogue together he determined that he would soon be getting some of the black unserrated TDI's in due to their being moreso suited to civillian use as a skinner.

[/DISCLAIMER]


And with that done, so to my journey of discovery with the Last Defence.

I must admit to some buyer's remorse initially. It felt like it was too small for my big paw, I couldn't index it to what I felt was supposed to be "correct" and so on.
Prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt I clipped it to the left/weak hand side of my belt at nine o'clock where I thought it should be and challenged the back of an old door to a fight.

I was dreadful.

Couldn't index the thing the same way twice, felt that my thumb and middle knuckle were too involved and were "leading with their chins".
Sure I could draw and stab a balloon in around the sametime as the trainees in the TDI video but it was sloppy, the guy in the TDI said to, "get real deep on it" or something like that. Probably tried about fifty presentations like that.

Something awful.

Then I turned the sheath around but kept it mounted at nine o'clock and tried the reverse grip version of the draw for another fifty presentations or so.
Worse. Couldn't maintain a regular index, wasn't fluent, couldn't "get in deep" without sacrificing speed and form.

I. Sucked.

Was I being hard on myself I decided after a coffee break? I switched to the right/strong hand side at three o'clock.
Still trying to "get in deep" I wasn't much better, around 0.08 vs 0.10+ faster maybe but nothing stunning. Probably did about another fifty or so presentations like that.

These aren't pictures from that session but should illustrate what I'm rabbiting on about (also I wasn't wearing gloves during that session)...

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^Sabre Grip "In Deep"

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^Reverse Grip "In Deep"

Now feel free to school me here, as I'm a self admitted n00b to this style of knife but is that a correct grip for the "fast draw" side of this knife's agenda?
Was I "doing it wrong"?

With that I left proper technique to the wind and just went for speed with my strong hand, I quickly ended up with a three fingered grip that indexed the thumb to the jimping and the trigger finger to that groove in the handle...

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^This was a revelation. This was an iajutsu wet dream. This was fucking fast. Like sub 0.05 fast.

I did a lot of presentations like that. My inner mallninja was loose. :twisted:

Then I reversed the sheath. I quickly came across indexing the heel of my hand to the same jimping I'd indexed my thumb before.

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With the handle cranked against the heel of the hand like so...

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...it seemed to really focus the force of body blow type hits to areas such as the armpit, rib and under rib. Fast hard repetive blows were easy and powerful.

We know the saying,"don't bring a knife to a gunfight" just as we know the response, "then try not to bring a gun to a stabbing" - well this felt like bringing a knife to a stabbing. The design and science behind this thing suddenly made sense. Which of course is going to make me sound all "my style" and teh stoopid if "I'm doing it wrong".

Again, I happily and respectfully request schooling/feedback in this matter.

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^Heavy metal proof of the three fingered nature of the grip I'm asking about. :wink:

And just to take the piss out of myself a little further I will admit to being reminded of this from COD4 : MW2 while I was playing around with this thing...
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^clicky pic lol.
(though I think that might actually be a BlackHawk!!! Tatangalog or something or other).

Is this bad? :lol:

Prerequisite compulsory HOrN Pr0n Hero Mallninja Tacticool forum pic to finish...
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby mr.trooper » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:53 pm

I have always been a fan of this type of knife. Excellent review, and congrats on a great knife!

I carry a CRKT Bear Claw for all the same reasons.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Wolfhvnter » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:26 pm

Always did like the concept of ths design. I carry a custom Hideaway Knife Cat Claw weak side. The grip andle and presentation are pretty similar.
naegling62 wrote:Well the only thing I can say is that I have a Carcano and that design is so bad it does lend to the idea of a 2nd shooter.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Big B » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:23 pm

Good review, not sure how I missed it orriginally.

I have been carrying a TDI as a LEO for a few years now. I keep it behind my mag pouch set up primarily for a suport-hand draw (I can still access it with both hands though). It is much easier to get out in a hurry than a folding knife. I mainly carry mine to use in a "gun grab" or similar situation. Nice little knife.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby phil_in_cs » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:16 pm

TGC: Don't worry too much about the subtleties of the grip. It's a punch dagger thing - grab and and get to work. Reverse grip or forward will depend on which hand grabs it, and that depends on what's happening. Practice both draws, but use it however it grabs out of the sheath.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:08 am

phil_in_cs wrote:TGC: Don't worry too much about the subtleties of the grip. It's a punch dagger thing - grab and and get to work. Reverse grip or forward will depend on which hand grabs it, and that depends on what's happening. Practice both draws, but use it however it grabs out of the sheath.

Copy that. 8-)

Thanks Phil. I'm picking up what you're putting down. :)

After a few more sessions and about 1,000 +/- presentations I can reliably index the jimping/fingergroove grip thingy I mentioned.
After looking at the pics I have jokingly started refering to it as Toothbrush Grip and Reverse Toothbrush Grip. :lol:

Definitely nothing Üb3r or 1337 haha but a nice start to getting familiar with this system I think.

That being said I will focus on "hasty grabs" from now on. Makes absolute sense considering the nature of this little beast.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby phil_in_cs » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:13 am

a comment on sabre grip, from a class I had w/ Tom Sotis:
Yes, you can push a bit more, but:
a) If you ever work w/ a reverse edge or double edge, sabre grip = deeply sliced thumb
b) If you're in sabre grip, your thumb isn't fully wrapping the handle, and it is easier to disarm you.
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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:35 am

phil_in_cs wrote:a comment on sabre grip, from a class I had w/ Tom Sotis:
Yes, you can push a bit more, but:
a) If you ever work w/ a reverse edge or double edge, sabre grip = deeply sliced thumb
b) If you're in sabre grip, your thumb isn't fully wrapping the handle, and it is easier to disarm you.

Very good points. Thanks again. :D

As it happens I am finding the reverse grip more productive with the weak hand/weak hand side draw.

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Re: Ka-Bar TDI Knife Review

Postby Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:27 pm

Bump.



After about 6,000 presentations with the TDI I'm comfortable enough to say that in the first two "grip" pictures in my picture post above I was "doing it wrong" (IMHO).

The "toothbrush" grip/s is/are about as far down on the grip as you can get before coming up against the zytel (?) sheath (obviously I can't speak for Phil's custom kydex TDI sheath) and since you should "draw and go to work" as soon as you get a positive grip then something properly indexed and close to "toothbrush" is "good enough". Any attempt to get "in deep" as per the pics sacrifices way too much speed (again IMHO)

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^Reverse Grip "Toothbrush" - Doing it right/Home school style/IMHO. lol

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