In a legitimate zombie apocalypse..AR or AK?

[Czechnology]

I think the SAW grips suck.

Hmm, I was thinking of replacing the russian 'donkey dick' grip on my Saiga with a SAW grip when I get some cash freed up actually...

Is there any particular reason they suck or do you just not like them personally?

They feel like they used to be a decent plastic item that a dog chewed on. The bullshit spring thing that is supposed to keep the cavity closed is... well... bullshit. Overall it feels cheap and the extreme flare towards the base is the least ergonomic thing I've ever come across on an AK, and that's saying something. People seem to love them though, so keep in mind you may completely disagree with me once you try it.

[Kutter_0311]

The SAW grip isn't great, but I thought it was better than what my WASR's came with.

Mind you, I liked running the SAW, too, the grip never bugged me.

The wire closure is simple and effective, much like the AK.

[MikeM]

The SAW grip isn't bad, I've got one as part of the conversion kit from Carolina Shooter's Supply. If it doesn't hold up then I'll chop one of my MOE grips (I've got a LaRue Urban FDE MOE sitting around in a box doing nothing) and use an adapter.

-Mike

[Czechnology]

Like I said, check it out for yourself before you buy one. I was excited that a rifle I bought used came with SAW grips after seeing everyone rave about them... until I held it. Fortunately we live in a world full of choices!

[Kutter_0311]

Like I said, check it out for yourself before you buy one... Fortunately we live in a world full of choices!

^^Yup!^^

Every product will have haters and fans, even those crappy US PALM AK mags.

Never let someone else pick your gear for you. Advice, yes, but fuck blind faith.

[Niblick]

I've been researching the hogue grips because of what you guys have said. I think I'll give it a try. I hope the LGS has one in stock because I really don't like mail order. I want to hold it first.

[AKFTW]

I've never had a problem with the standard AK grip (I wear side Small gloves) but the grip on my Type 56-2 clone is like a beefier version of the VZ-58 grip, and I find it very comfortable to use. Similar in profile to the US Palm grips. If I was going to go for a new grip though I'd try this out: http://shop.roninsgrips.com/Russian-Izhmash-Molot-Grip-Russian-Izhmash-Molot-Grip.htm

It's a US made copy of the new grip Izhmash is putting on their guns- apparently it is very comfortable.

[Czechnology]

I never understood why people had a problem with AK's, size wise. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the first semi-auto rifle I owned had stock furniture aside from a rommy wire folder. I just didn't know any different, and so when people much smaller than me (I'm 6'4" and 235) complain about AK's being to short it makes me scratch my head.

I have to tuck a fair amount of myself in to really get behind an AK, but I never learned that it was odd/bad/different so it never was a problem. I guess it's just whatever you learned on, because fixed stock AR's do seem rather luxurious to me in the LOP department.

[Manovv]

AK, all the way.

[tedbeau]

The AK will always be more reliable.
The AR will always be more accurate.

Not so much...


EDIT: Here you go- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzfm4pYhIyY

The thing that I noticed in that video is at the 2:15 or 2:16 mark the gun fires without the operator pressing the trigger. That's kind of scary! I don't know if its a jammed round that gets cooked off or what.

As for me, I have never shot either an AR or an AK, but I am buying an AK within the next two weeks. I have selected the one I want, and am waiting for a check for the funds that I should receive this week. There is a gun show near me in two weeks and if I don't find something there for a better price than I am going to order the AK from an online store.

My reason for selecting the AK was the fact that I have heard a lot of coments about AR's needing someone with gun smithing skills to keep them running. I don't see a need to be making 600 yard head shots and I doubt I could if I needed to.
I am placing reliablity higher than accuaracy for my needs. Also the AK is going to be priced a little lower.I'll have to bulk order the 7.63x39 ammo since it's hard to find here but I can get it cheap enough to really stockpile it.
The AK/ammo might be a little heavier but my plan A is to bunker in place anyways. I don't see the logic of stockpiling thousands of dollars in food, ammo, and water, then leaving it all and walking out with 50 pounds of what I think I need most. There may be situations that require that but if it comes to that is 10 pounds difference if ammo really going to gain you more than a day or two anyways?

[RickOShea]

My reason for selecting the AK was the fact that I have heard a lot of coments about AR's needing someone with gun smithing skills to keep them running.

Say what?

[Wolfe4086]

My honest opinion is that it depends where you live. The AR15 in 5.56 there will be plenty of replacement parts and ammo in North America. In Eastern Europe it would be the AK. For Western Europe depends on the country.

[knowntofew]

Honestly, a PCC. one reason only, i have loads of ammo and loads of waiting to be loaded ammo. Unless its a horde situation my trusty machete is the key. Guns are for the living when the apocolypse happens. The threat of a gun doesnt affect a zombie but the noise it makes will attracted more.

[azrael99]

i spend years with a AR15 and M16A1 (ok not actually american model but the diemco , canadian models)

i know every part of it. shot many round . and i know i would not take it. i had to maintain it too much to keep it reliable. i rarely had jamming problem with it, but it cost me lot of cleaning time to be able to keep it like that. others people of my unit had those jamming problem.

i cannot talk again the ergonomy of it though, is is comfortable as hell and really instinctive to use.

[Kutter_0311]

i spend years with a AR15 and M16A1 (ok not actually american model but the diemco , canadian models)

i know every part of it. shot many round . and i know i would not take it. i had to maintain it too much to keep it reliable. i rarely had jamming problem with it, but it cost me lot of cleaning time to be able to keep it like that. others people of my unit had those jamming problem.

i cannot talk again the ergonomy of it though, is is comfortable as hell and really instinctive to use.

Having spent my service time with the M16A2, my experience was much the same. I knew how to maintain it enough to keep it running, other guys, not so much. I actually would have taken an M16 to the ZomPoc, but I have a wife and kids now, so my requirements have changed. My wife needs to be able to run the same system, with no instruction and little OJT. AK fills that list.

[AK47Heaven]

Ok I'm going to go out on a limb here..the best rifle may be a piston driven AR style rifle.Not a DI AR with a piston shoved into it,but a ground up piston design with AR ergos and mag compatibility.This is assuming you bought at least two replacement sets in advance of the ZPAW for all parts that are subject to failure.I was thinking maybe the LWRCI M6 or possibly even a SCAR-L,which has undergone extensive military testing.

Now I could very well be wrong, and I'm sure if I am many people will be along shortly to tell me so.

[TDW586]

The LWRCI isn't a ground up piston gun, it is in fact an AR with a piston shoved in it, but all accounts say it's the best of the bunch and a good weapon. The SCAR is also an excellent rifle, from all reports I have heard, though it really offers nothing over the DI AR in most formats.

Unless it's running a barrel below 12", full auto, suppressed, or some combination of those, none of those designs offer a substantial advantage over a DI AR. This is not to say they're not capable weapons.

[AK47Heaven]

Interesting I didn't know that about LWRCI.What other guns are in 5.56 and have AR ergos and ground up pistons?I thought the HK416 and SIG556 are but I also thought LWRC was as now I will need to go double check them

[TDW586]

The HK416 is also essentially an AR. Both the HK and the LWRCI are very well designed piston guns, but they are piston AR's.

As far as ground up piston guns go, you've got the SCAR, the SIG 55X (the 550/551/552 and the 556) and the ACR. There are plenty of others, like the AR180 and the Daewoo, but most are relatively uncommon. Of course, you've also got the option of 5.56 AK's.

All that being said, however, the idea that piston guns are inherently more reliable than DI AR's is utter bullshit unfounded in reality. Military rifles, whatever action they use, are seldom well maintained, and by maintenance I do not mean cleaning. I mean replacing key parts before they wear out, which must be done to any weapon in order for it to function reliably. Basing your decision on the fact that soldiers who don't know how to run the gun using weapons that the organization does not keep in proper working order have malfunctions isn't solid logic. Also, you should consider that people in the US military talking about AR malfunctions are working from limited experience...that's the only rifle they use, and we've seen hundreds of thousands firing millions of rounds downrange; of course they're going to have plenty of stories of AR malfunctions. A Russian or Middle Eastern soldier will have seen plenty of AK malfunctions, and a Swiss soldier will have seen plenty of 550/551/552 malfunctions.

AR's are as reliable as any other military rifle currently in service. And I'm off my soapbox, because there's nothing wrong with AK's (other than ergos) and I don't want to start another debate.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk

[Kutter_0311]

The HK416 is also essentially an AR. Both the HK and the LWRCI are very well designed piston guns, but they are piston AR's.

As far as ground up piston guns go, you've got the SCAR, the SIG 55X (the 550/551/552 and the 556) and the ACR. There are plenty of others, like the AR180 and the Daewoo, but most are relatively uncommon. Of course, you've also got the option of 5.56 AK's.

(A bunch of totally true and acurate information...)

AR's are as reliable as any other military rifle currently in service. And I'm off my soapbox, because there's nothing wrong with AK's (other than ergos) and I don't want to start another debate.

My only correction is to state that the Sig 55X should be lumped into the AK family.

It may be the Astin Martin of the AK family, but we all have one of those in our family, don't we?

[TDW586]

Well, the operating system itself is much like the AK, of course, but the 550 series incorporated one hell of a lot of improvements. So, I guess it's fair to call it the Bentley of the AK family. With the AK being the Lada of the AK family.

[averagemutt]

Jim I agree with you on all counts the only reason I would not take a 5.45 is that once your ammo is out it is most likely out for good.
7.62x39 is foreign but there is domestic production and it is a very popular caliber throughout the country.

I'm jealous of your Arsenal, btw...

Once you run out of any caliber it is unlikely you are going to find any more. People love to have ammo commonality because they think they can scavenge more, but in truth if you are finding ammo during the PAW then you are also going to find the firearm they went with. It is more important to find a caliber you like and stock up on it, then decide to get something else because you think it will be easier to scavenge for.

Excellent Point.

[RickOShea]

Sorry Rick, you missed the "changeable barrels" part. Clutch, since after 200+ rounds on full-retard, that wee little AR will be worth about as much as a mini-14 from 1995 as far as accuracy and function.

Actually, all I did was fix a bad youtube link......I endorsed nothing. Try and pay better attention next time.

[400 Grains]

I think most folks should go all AK's.







Helps keep AR prices down for the rest of us.....