MD's cold weather BOB. Comments welcome!

[Mister Dark]

First Edit, Jan 4: Ditched the little blue electronics bag I was using as a hygene kit and replaced it with a plain-ol baggie. Removed the rarely-used poncho and replaced with rainpants and a pack cover. (my regular shell is waterproof, so I was covered there) Added a handful of clif bars. Weight went up, but not too much. And yes, I still have the mini toothbrush.

Second Edit, Jan 7: Added another 1400 calories in the form of Clif bars and 2 more meal packets. Added some more coldweather clothing to the clothes bag so they are onhand at all times. After much soulsearching and general flip-flopping, I have decided to keep the woodgas stove. In the SE USA, I can ALWAYS find wood to burn, and the stove weighs less than an esbit stove and 4 tabs. It will mean I have to actually get OUT of the hammock to make morning coffee, but I am prepared to face these things.

Third edit, Jan 19: Finally decided to add a full load-out of clothing to the bag, as opposed to my earlier plan of, well, hoping I had the right clothes on and/or in my truck. Now I have extra socks, base layers, raingear, gloves and headgear all packed away. The bag is heavier, but a lot of the clothes at least would be coming out and being worn as opposed to hauled around. A fair enough trade off I suppose.

Fourth and most likely final edit, at least til next winter. Added a writeup of my new Ribz Front Pack, which totally rocks.

In preparation for the Winter Mock Bug Out contest, I decided it was a good time to re-evaluate my bugout bag, and get some comments and constructive criticism from the good people of ZS.

The purpose of my bag is to let me survive and cover a lot of ground on foot, for a period of at least 3 days without resupply. The bag does NOT have any firearms, since 1)should I encounter Police or National Guard checkpoints in a disaster, they would react badly to weapons of any sort, 2)I wouldnt put any weapons in my pack anyway. Too hard to get to when you need them.

One of my primary motivations in this bag is saving weight. The lighter the pack, the more miles I can cover in a day, and the fewer calories I need to recharge at each stop. I'd love to carry 90 pounds of awesome Bugout gear, but I cant. Bad ankles, worn out knees, and all around worn-down-ness dictate that the pack be as light as I can reasonably manage. At the same time, I like having safeties and redundancies in my systems, so I have backups for critical items like water purification, firemaking, and the like.

Regarding food. I am bugging out, I dont think I'll have time to stop and set snares or catch fish. I am going to be covering miles, so quick and easy is the name of the game.

And finally, I am presuming I will have seasonally appropriate attire if/when I have to bug out. I wear hiking boots and cargo pants at work, and have baselayers and heavy coats in my truck bag. So I dont have very much extra clothing packed in the bag; I presume I will have it on me, or close at hand.


And now, the gear.

The Pack:




Granite Gear Alpine Vapor, with my knife and two molle pouches on a riggers belt rig. One pouch is a 5.11 water bottle carrier, the other an offbrand SAW pouch. It carries flashlights, poncho, water bag, firekit, and other small sundries. I currently have my compass hanging from the straps, it usually winds up riding in a coat pocket or around my neck. Empty weight of the pack with the pouches is 3 pounds 1 oz. EDITED TO ADD: I dropped the pouches and riggers belt, and went back to the GG suspension. The stuff I was carrying in the pouches moved to the Ribz pack, see below!

My new favorite, the Ribz Front Pack. This is a lightweight, zip front pack, worn on your chest - basically a civilian LBE, and I must say it is THE BOMB. Big enough to get all the stuff you want, I basically could have used it as an E&E bag, if I had to ditch the main pack. Everything is in front, right where you need it. No need to stop moving to grab a snack, a drink, or (heaven forbid) grab your FAK. The Ribz itself is ultralight silnylon, weighs less than 11 ounces, and carries a respectable amount of gear.

The Ribz pack, ready to head off to the hills.


My FAK went in the right side main compartment. The front pocket held my camera.


The left side main pocket held my maps, a water bottle, clif and mainstay bars, and water purification kit. The front pocket held my headlamp, compass, and firekit.


The nicest part was that it was all instantly available while on the move. And I had more room for even more stuff, if I had decided to really cram gear into the bag. Pure win, in my book. It also helped having some of my gear weight on my front, easing the backwards pull of my backpack. The straps never interfered at all with my pack straps, although I did get them twisted on themselves a few times after dragging it around camp for a night. I love it.

Good pic of the Ribz pack in action, courtesy of Omega Man


The stuff I have in the pack.


Hey, a pile 'o bags. Top row, from left: FAK; blue bag with radio and charging kit; Cook kit (red bag); small molle pouch carrying my Kahtoola Microspikes; Hammock and ropes(Orange bag); Top and Bottom quilts(green bag).

Second row from Left: Food bag (orange); Warbonnet Tarp (Black); several large black plastic bags; spare socks and base layer (blue); Ditched the Poncho for rainpants and pack cover (green bag); Sleeping bag (black bag); 1L SS water bottle; AMK heatsheet; Changed out the hygene kit bag for a ziplock; and svensaw along the bottom of the pile 'o bags.


The stuff in the bags:

RADIO BAG:


Small solar panel charger with misc usb/ipod charging tips; Yaesu VX-8R radio; various radio antennas; Sanyo USB AA/AAA charger; baggie with several Eneloop AA and AAA; Yaesu AA battery pack for VX8R. I must say, I have been pleased with the solar panel, the battery pack has plenty of charge to bring my phone to 100%, then I can leave it plugged into the panel (and strap the panel to the top of my pack) all day to recharge. The panel does a nice job charging directly, but takes a lot of time. I like the extra battery for quick work.

COOK KIT


small collapsible cup; Snow*Peak 1400 pot and lid; Bushwacker stove; spare water purification tabs and filter; small scrub pad; spork and spatula; Tea; Fire kit w/ cotton balls and spare lighter; COFFEE. Edit: I ditched the spatula thing and the Ti spork, for a small folding doohickey that fit nicely in the 900. Still have the J Falk Bushwacker.

MICROspikes bag. These are simply awesome for giving me the traction I need in muddy/snowy/icy conditions. Absolutely amazing devices, and easy on/off. I am currently using a heavy molle bag to hold the microspikes, just because I am worried that the spikes could puncture a lighter bag and cause problems. I am sure there is a better way to carry them, but til I figure it out, the molle is working just fine. EDIT: Found the perfect microspikes carry bag - it is a microphone bag from Shure. Find any local sound company, they probably will give you a spare bag for free. Alternately, a Crown Royal bag works well, and you get the pleasure of the whiskey to boot!

HAMMOCK BAG (and tarp bag)
I have quite a few hammocks, but the Warbonnet Blackbird has become my favorite by far. Roomy and packs light, the bugnet on the hammock helps in cold weather to keep my sleeping gear in the hammock and off the ground, plus it breaks up the wind a little too. I have also started using the Warbonnet Mamajamba tarp - the caternary cut and the seamsealed pullouts, plus Brandons maniacal attention to detail, make this tarp simply bulletproof.
I will update with a pic of the sleep system set up, as soon as I have a few spare minutes at home. Total weight for hammock, ropes, tarp, stakes: 3 pounds 9 oz

QUILTS and SLEEPING BAG(or, my happy world of wonderful warm downy goodness.)
For cold weather lightweight traveling, nothing beats Goose Down. In temps above freezing, my Mountain Hardwear Caribou bag is plenty enough all by itself. Once the wind picks up or the temps drop, the quilts come out. I have a Warbonnet Black Mamba topquilt to throw over my sleeping bag, and a JRB Mt.Washington3 Underquilt, which hangs below the hammock, snugged up tight. Hanging underneath as opposed to inside the hammock makes sure the quilt doesnt get compressed between me and the hammock, so it lofts up, and cocoons me in awesome, downy warmth. This system can keep me warm and comfy in temps near 0 F. But JUST IN CASE, I also have a AMK heatsheet emergency space blanket to wrap up in if things get really bad. (Gotta have redundancies)


In the pic, I just laid all three bags out and let them sit for a few minutes. 11 inches of loft is just right for near-0F weather, methinks.


Total weight of sleeping bag and quilts, 4 pounds 3 oz.

FOOD BAG:

Some MH, some oatmeal, some of the really nice lipton/knorr rice sides. Enough for 3 full days. (And 50' of cord so I can hang the bag if need be.) EDIT: Added some more calories - I now have 6 Mainstay bars in the mix (2400 cal there) plus I ditched the MH meals and added a few more Knorr sides. Those things have around 700 cal each! I also now have a total of 9 oatmeal packs, for a grand total of approx 7000 calories.

SPARE CLOTHES. (updated Jan 19)

Outer-ish layer: Mountain Hardware Compressor Jacket, Marmot Precip rainjacket (used as an outer shell), Manzella fleece gloves, Gordini waterproof ski gloves.


Base-ish layers, top left to bottom right: Balaclava, UA poly heatgear longsleeve, UA woven longlseeve, poly tshirt. Marmot rainpants, UA poly longjohns, undies. smartwool socks.


SLEEPING BAG. See "Quilts" above.


HYGENE KIT


A coupla towelettes, a pack of wet ones, toothbrush and toothpaste, and hand sanitizer. Not much else to it.Dropped the blue case for a ziplock.



Other, Miscellaneous stuff.



1L plastic water bottle, SS bottle, poncho, my primary firekit, water purification kit, Princeton Tec headlamp, Platy water bag EDIT: now have 2 of the 1L platy bags , rite in the rain notepad w/ pen and sharpie, Brunton monocular, Fallkniven F1 knife, Fenix E21 flashlight, a couple of plastic bags for whatever, and a 15" SvenSaw.


Final Weight, with 2L of water.[EDIT] not any more. Closer to 32 pounds, but who's counting, right?




So, what do you think? Comments and suggestions welcome!

[Black Optimus]

Not critisizing but questions...

Are you a hardcore backpacker or a weekend hiker? If the later don't you think you can afford the extra weight of a whole toothbrush?
Also What are the odds of using Quick Clot in a civilian setting? Other than a deep stab wound or a gunshot wound you can stem the blood flow of any injury with a good bandage and dressing. My buddy carries a womans sanitary pad to soak up blood...it worked too on a scouts bloody nose.

I would add some of that sticky wrap to keep the dressing in place. Even the sports tap would be good.

Really I'm just looking at the odds and practicality of use. Pack items that you would regularly use.

[GunsUp]

Good bag, thanks for posting.

Maybe label those stuff sacks so you can tell what is what (or maybe your memory is better than mine).
If your sleeping bag is in the crappy black nylon walmart stuff sack i think it is in, get a real waterproof stuff sack for it 9another one of those orange or green ones will be fine.

Does SC really get enough snow and ice to need microspikes? Seems like wasted weight in that neck of the woods to me.

Good basic first aid kit, I'd keep everything there. Make sure the OTC med pack has Motrin, Tylenol, Aspirin, Benadryl, Imodium AD, and Pepcid AC, of course suitable substations (generics or tagamet for pepcid) are fine. Motrin and Tylenol can be taken together for severe pain. Aspirin is critical to take immediately after a heart attack. Benadryl and Pepcid AC can be taken together for severe allergic reactions. Imodium... nuff said.

Doesn't really look like enough calories for 3 days of hard going, I count maybe 4000 calories there. Might add a 3600 calorie lifeboat ration to bolster the calorie count.

Good spare clothes I love the UA boxer briefs and shirts. Make sure the socks are wool or synthetic. Make sure you have enough stuff from your truck bag to be warm all the time. I personally keep a full set of clothes with my BOB just in case I have to bug out that one day a year I have to wear a suit or I just threw yesterdays clothes in the laundry. What if for some reason you can't get to your truck? I'd take what you have in your kit and go sit out with just that... I did that last year at the wintergeddon and it was an eye opener.

Chopped down toothbrush but a heavy ass "wallet" for a hygeine kit? Seems like your confused on rather you are cutting weight or not

Make sure you keep at least 4-5 liters of water packed in there... you never know when you will bug out in the middle of a drought (or maybe a chemical spill has polluted the local waterways).

[TacAir]

I'll assume that a hat (knit), gloves scarf and wet weather gear are in your truck beg/edc.

I'll suggest that a pair of long poly drawers (left in the sleeping bag) would be a good idea in case you get soaked - and a nylon running outfit to go over the top of the drawers.

I would also suggest more chow - GORP, peanut butter, SPAM! singles, something with fat. By day three you will be ready for the SPAM! fat and salt, yummm. PErhaps spome coffee packets - helps with hunger pangs if nothing else. Headlamp, and moleskin for FAK.

Fianlly - a 750 ml 'bullet thermos/thermal flask. BOil water at night, eat dinner, put hot water in flask. Move to sleeping area - get up in morning and BAM - hot oatmeal and no messing about with a stove. Fast start to the morning. YOu should be carrying a bit more water - so add a Platy bag (1L) as well.

And a map of the area covering alternate travel routes.

Looks pretty good, this is just fringe stuff....

Thanks for photos

[Woods Walker]

Maybe consider a closed cell pad just incase that hammock can't be setup do to injury etc. Beyond that I hope to see this kit in action for the contest.

[Mister Dark]

If the later don't you think you can afford the extra weight of a whole toothbrush?

My wife gave it to me as a joke last year, I should have known it would catch some flak. But it does fit in the pouch nicely, dont you think?

Also What are the odds of using Quick Clot in a civilian setting? Other than a deep stab wound or a gunshot wound you can stem the blood flow of any injury with a good bandage and dressing. My buddy carries a womans sanitary pad to soak up blood...it worked too on a scouts bloody nose.

I probably will never use it, but for the small size and weight, it works very well or so I hear.

I would add some of that sticky wrap to keep the dressing in place. Even the sports tap would be good.

Duct Tape. Even in non-emergencies, I use it instead of sports tape. Also, the water bottle has some E-tape wrapped around it, which can work quite well.

Really I'm just looking at the odds and practicality of use. Pack items that you would regularly use.

Well, this is the stuff I hike with, so yea, I am comfortable with everything. Thanks for posting!

[Mister Dark]

Good bag, thanks for posting.

thanks!

Maybe label those stuff sacks so you can tell what is what (or maybe your memory is better than mine).
If your sleeping bag is in the crappy black nylon walmart stuff sack i think it is in, get a real waterproof stuff sack for it 9another one of those orange or green ones will be fine.

The stuff sacks are a lot easier to figure out, hands on. They do look a bit confusing in the pics for sure. In the dark / in the bottom of the bag I am just going by feel anyway. The sleeping bag is in its factory stuff sack, and when it looks like rain I often will open one of the garbage bags as a pack liner, so everything rides inside.

Does SC really get enough snow and ice to need microspikes? Seems like wasted weight in that neck of the woods to me.

Yea, I was torn trying to decide to pack them or not. But in the hills just north of here where I do a lot of overnighters, and especially up along the NC/SC border where I am planning to go for the WMBO, it can get rough enough that they really help. I am taking a chance leaving the snowshoes at home this year!

Good basic first aid kit, I'd keep everything there. Make sure the OTC med pack has Motrin, Tylenol, Aspirin, Benadryl, Imodium AD, and Pepcid AC, of course suitable substations (generics or tagamet for pepcid) are fine. Motrin and Tylenol can be taken together for severe pain. Aspirin is critical to take immediately after a heart attack. Benadryl and Pepcid AC can be taken together for severe allergic reactions. Imodium... nuff said.

Thanks. I have single dose packs of just about everything you mention.

Doesn't really look like enough calories for 3 days of hard going, I count maybe 4000 calories there. Might add a 3600 calorie lifeboat ration to bolster the calorie count.

4500 or so, you are right that isnt enough for long term, but its just about what I want for 3 days. For quick energy I usually have some clif bars and hard candy in my bag as well, I need to go restock.

Good spare clothes I love the UA boxer briefs and shirts. Make sure the socks are wool or synthetic. Make sure you have enough stuff from your truck bag to be warm all the time. I personally keep a full set of clothes with my BOB just in case I have to bug out that one day a year I have to wear a suit or I just threw yesterdays clothes in the laundry. What if for some reason you can't get to your truck? I'd take what you have in your kit and go sit out with just that... I did that last year at the wintergeddon and it was an eye opener.

Heh, yes it can be. I like hiking "cool", but 20 degrees without anything extra would be an eye opener indeed. I do have extra clothes packed in the truck, and of course at home as well (although not packed and ready to go) so I may have to reconsider a few things there. But I do work outside a lot in all kinds of weather, so I do have longjohns, extra layers, rainpants, and the like with me. Its always a trade-off; do I pack EVERYTHING, in which case the pack has to be huge, and as soon as I get dressed its half empty? Always a trade off indeed.

Chopped down toothbrush but a heavy ass "wallet" for a hygeine kit? Seems like your confused on rather you are cutting weight or not

Yea. I have already mentioned to the wifey that she is making my life difficult. Forget the toothbrush ONE TIME, and she got me that....

Make sure you keep at least 4-5 liters of water packed in there... you never know when you will bug out in the middle of a drought (or maybe a chemical spill has polluted the local waterways).

5 Liters. Yikes.

Thanks for the comments!

[Mister Dark]

Maybe consider a closed cell pad just incase that hammock can't be setup do to injury etc. Beyond that I hope to see this kit in action for the contest.

Not set up the hammock? Blasphemy!

But yea, I have a z-lite that I used to carry around all the time. It does make a nice underpad and does extend the temps I can sleep in by another few degrees, but then again, I was uncomfortable with both a closed cell AND an inflatable when I slept in the dirt, so I dont know whether the pad would really gain me much, at least in terms of comfort. Tough call actually.

Thanks for looking, and I look forward to getting my entry done for the contest. Now if it would just get cold...

[Woods Walker]

I hear you. It’s hard for me to come down from the trees as well. I think there is some cold weather right now in your AO. Hold on...

Ditched the Poncho for rainpants and pack cover (green bag);

Are you sure about this? I mean most ponchos will work great for a pack cover and when combined with rainpants offers some good weather protection. Plus there is a backup shelter aka tarp tossed into the mix. Do you have a rain jacket I missed?

[Mister Dark]

WW you make a good point. I keep flip-flopping about the poncho. But the way I am looking at it right now (check back in a week, it may change again) is that I have:

*rain pants that work as an additional layer of clothing.
*a pack cover that I can put on if it is just drizzling a little but not enough for me to completely suit up.
*my outer shell is waterproof to start with, so I was doubling up my effort there.

The poncho isnt quite large enough to completely cover my hammock, so I would be in trouble there anyway. Now, if I was using a bivy bag and going to ground, then the poncho would be more than enough.

The only thing I am concerned about is the pack straps. I have waterproofed them, but in a long soaking rain they will probably get saturated, then water will be able to migrate thru my jacket. Decisions, decisions.

[omega_man]

Hey, MD

If you want some company during the mock bug-out, let me know. I'm actually working on by BOB today; but, I'm still undecided on whether to participate (i.e. if I can get out without Omega_woman). I live up here in Tiger country, so I'm not far from where you'll probably be.

[Mister Dark]

Hey, MD

If you want some company during the mock bug-out, let me know. I'm actually working on by BOB today; but, I'm still undecided on whether to participate (i.e. if I can get out without Omega_woman). I live up here in Tiger country, so I'm not far from where you'll probably be.

That would be cool, Omega. I am currently shooting for the weekend of Feb 11th, a bunch of guys from Hammockforum are having a hang at Mt Roan, but honestly I'd rather hike more and hang less, so maybe a 2 or 3 day MBO with some mileage would be a good thing. You can carry the spare oxygen for me, right?

[Woods Walker]

my outer shell is waterproof to start with, so I was doubling up my effort there.

If you're wearing a waterproof jacket and pants then dumping the poncho is just fine.

[omega_man]

Hey, MD

If you want some company during the mock bug-out, let me know. I'm actually working on by BOB today; but, I'm still undecided on whether to participate (i.e. if I can get out without Omega_woman). I live up here in Tiger country, so I'm not far from where you'll probably be.

That would be cool, Omega. I am currently shooting for the weekend of Feb 11th, a bunch of guys from Hammockforum are having a hang at Mt Roan, but honestly I'd rather hike more and hang less, so maybe a 2 or 3 day MBO with some mileage would be a good thing. You can carry the spare oxygen for me, right?

Word. I don't have class on Fridays this Spring and I like mileage! We can PM details if you're interested. And I'll carry the oxygen if you carry the booze

[Mister Dark]

Word. I don't have class on Fridays this Spring and I like mileage! We can PM details if you're interested. And I'll carry the oxygen if you carry the booze

Got it covered.



PM inbound.

[omega_man]

Ha! Love it!

[ForgeCorvus]

Re:Microspikes. Are they any good for mud? I would of thought so but I've not tried myself.
I got Yaktrax Pros as a prezzie, they don't have any pointy bits so I can just drop them in a bag

[Mister Dark]

Re:Microspikes. Are they any good for mud? I would of thought so but I've not tried myself.
I got Yaktrax Pros as a prezzie, they don't have any pointy bits so I can just drop them in a bag

Mud, ice, snow, loose gravel... They are like offroad tires for your feet. I have enough trouble keeping my balance on level, asphalt covered parking lots, I need all the help I can get out on the trail. The Microspikes (and I have read good reviews of Yaktrax) really dig in and give me the assurance that I actually have traction.

If the ground is iffy at all, they are worth having.

[omega_man]

Did you just recently add the esbit stove? I had a cheapy one years ago; but, never got to use it--apparently hot beverages were verboten when I was a young Marine.

[Mister Dark]

I have had esbits for years, they are super compact and do a pretty good job. For what I want it to do (heat some water every now and then) they work great. I DONT think they work well for bringing water to a rolling boil, however. Just not enough energy in that little tab. They do work well when I just want to stop for a quick cup of coffee.

As a "water heater of last resort", they work great. Thats why I only have a couple of tabs with me in the pack. I just dont plan on the esbit being a primary source for cooking or purifying. I almost always have some kind of small fire going for that purpose anyway. So the Esbit is really a backup.


I also am in the middle of re-evaluating my clothing options, I'll post all that up next week.