By reading through this discussion, I noticed a far drift from the points I was trying to make. Please let us all refrain from discussions about: how long I have been here, how new people are treated, my personal background, your personal background, my writing style, others writing style, what others wrote in previous threads, what I wrote in previous threads (I stand by what I wrote. If you would like to fact check what I wrote for yourself, you will see who wishes to win a “debate” at all costs), your home town, my home town, and other things that serve no purpose other than to distract. Let us please stick to the topic I started. I believe (and the arguments on this thread of some have re-enforced my position) that some have assumptions that I do not accept.
If you do not take these things for granted, then we are in agreement. If you do assume these things, tell me why. Change my mind.
1) “I will beat the traffic and get out of town before everyone else.” Please accept that this means that someone believes they will among the first 25% or so to leave. Other than being more prepared to evacuate than the average citizen, I have not read anyplace on this thread which supports this belief. I would not rely on information from the internet because the power may be down. If you are in the military, this is not your concern because your information and evacuation orders are provided by superior officers.
What I am reading is that many are planning to hunker down. With more food and preps in place, many feel confident that they can survive most emergencies. (Again, I am trying not to put words in your mouth or speak for every situation. You may be better off staying in place.) My friend moved to what he felt was a survival area. He had more preps and knowledge than anyone I ever met. (I considered him an excellent source of information and a very good friend.) When he was told to evacuate, he thought he could ride out the forest fire. He lived off grid with a self contained electrical system and well, he figured he could save his own house. He didn’t make it. Call me every rotten name in the book later if you want but please seriously consider evacuating when they tell you.
2) “I have several different routes planned so I will be OK.” So much was made of my choice of Modesto as an example that I feel a need to clear it up. I do not live in or close to Modesto. (Erroneous assumptions that it’s my hometown.) It was picked because it was a close enough match to the information provided by the US Census. http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts
(I provided links to this at least a couple times in this thread. Any complaints about what is an average city
should be addressed to the US Census). Also, it was a city I have driven to and through a bunch of times. Based on my observations, larger cities tend to have more routes out. If you live in a smaller place, you may have fewer people but you probably have fewer distinct passable roads during an evacuation.
It is also possible that your routes may take you past these larger cities. Let us not forget that your location or destination may be the bug-out destination for all those city dwellers. Please, do not assume your chosen paved route will be passable completely on the pavement. (I do not even assume the easy off-road trails will be clear.)
3) “The police, fire fighters, ambulances, and tow trucks will clear the roads and keep traffic moving.” http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/natio
... olice.html . Again, if you believe the traffic will stay clear. Use the roads as much as possible but make certain your vehicle (and you) are able to go off-road when the roads are not passable.
4) “I can make it off road with 2 wheel drive as much as I will need to.” I ascribe to the philosophy that it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I never said you would die without 4wd. I said about 2wd, “It is possible and likely that you can get to where you want with no problems.” Here is another undistorted direct quote from me, “I do agree with you that it depends on terrain, experience, 2wd system, weather, and many other things. But, it is better to have capabilities and not need them than to need a capability you do not have.”
Do these sound like this distortions of what I said? “You know better than all of us, and I will die after being raped by Lebanese-Mexican banditos because I don't drive a lifted K-5 with a ramming bumper…” Or, “…the OP insisted I was going to die in my car.” Again, I maintain that you may be fine in a 2wd. I just believe 4x4 is a better option.
5) “I will just use a winch if I get stuck or have to move something.” A winch and jack are great tools in most situations when you are stuck. But there are too many situations than to list here that they won’t help (like nothing close to connect to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE-UImlMKrU
I also used information on what is happening in northern Mexico. What I said was, “Banditos block the road with their car and then rob, kidnap, rape, and kill people who stop. In this situation, YOU SHOULD NOT STOP!” Unlike some have claimed, I never said banditos were coming to America but I do believe their tactics might. I think it is valuable to find out what is happening in other countries and learn how to protect ourselves.
BTW: This type of carjacking started in the USA during the 1960s when thugs would block off roads and alleys in Chicago and steal trucks loaded with goods. This was one of the first crimes Carlo Gambino used to start the Gambino crime family. Carjacking was invented here. It is realistic to believe it can come back during times of panic and lawlessness.
Also they claim I say you should ram into vehicles. Again without distortion, I stated, “…IF you can move a car a different way, do so. If you can go around, do so. (4x4 makes this easier.) If you can spot trouble in advance, do so. But even the best trained, most cautious people get caught in traps.” Here is a video from a company which prepares bodyguards and chauffeurs for diplomats and wealthy, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9-Ba45mDpA
. Around minute three is a proper demonstration on how to push your way through a vehicular road block. It is not the first choice but if you need to do it you better have the vehicle that can survive. (If you notice, they used a bigger Volvo in that demo. A small car probably would not work as well.)
6) “I will just head to the mountains and live off the land.” and 8) “After I get there, I won’t be using my vehicle anyway.” can really be combined. I mention this because more than one said on this site that they weren’t going to need a car or go into town where they were going. I said, “A good vehicle will assist as more than just transportation but add as a survival tool. Think farm vehicle.” I continued in another post about not needing a vehicle after reaching a retreat, “Your range of supplies will be limited to the distance you can walk. You are choosing to live in the 19th century.” It is not necessary to be mobile and have mechanical help but as this http://www.naturalnews.com/034404_prepp ... g_out.html
author says, “It's no exaggeration to say that one gallon of diesel fuel can replace the labor of twelve men working twelve hours.” You can make your life more bearable with the help of a good machine.
7) “I will just head off-road and 4x4 my way there.” Please understand, this was meant as a warning to those who believe they don’t need the paved road. A highway is a wonderful thing. Use the asphalt all you can. “Maps are flat and fool a person into believing it’s not so difficult to get from this point to that point.” When I say get a 4x4, I don’t mean stay off-road. Stay on-road as much as possible. Have the ability (which means vehicle and experience) to be off-road.
9) “I don’t have that many people going with me.” Like I said before having greater utility in choice is a good thing. As stated, “… your vehicle should be flexible and adaptable to a new circumstance.” I have no crystal ball. I rather have the vehicle which gives me the greatest number of choices. One which can haul and go off-road and pull and push when needed is better than one which is limited.
10) “The perfect vehicle is XXXXXXX.” I said, “There is no perfect vehicle. What might work great for me will be a bust for the next person because their needs and evacuation experience will differ. Price and practicality play into the mix.” Yet some say things like, “I'm convinced. "Honey, I'm dropping out of college so we can afford a 4wd."” Or “I'll worry more about prepping than spending big money on a truck, then outfitting it like an A-team van…” Although humorous, it doesn’t represent what I wrote.
I also wrote, “Please use your own judgment and try not to buy into hype and over enthusiasm over a particular vehicle. I strongly advise a 4x4 over a 2wd. Also, I believe a larger vehicle will do more and offer better flexibility than a smaller vehicle.” I never said it was mandatory or you will die. I also didn’t say you had to have a lifted, full-size vehicle. I suggest a newer, larger 4x4 for evacuation and an older, simpler 4x4 for survival is the best combination.
BTW: As mentioned in a previous thread, I was given two running 4x4s in my life. One was inherited from my Uncle and the other had no brakes and needed other work (about $250 in parts). Getting into a 4x4 may not be as expensive as one might think.
Side show and comments to distractions:
Being shot at in a car.
It is not chiseled in stone that being shot at in a car = bullet penetrating with enough force to kill. Using the car’s materials to absorb some of the energy or to deflect a round fired at you may save your life. It is not as clear cut as one would think. More has to do with bullet caliber, grains of load, round weight and choice, distance, degree of angle while shooting, and gun choice (handgun vs rifle). As I stated, a .22 can be deflected with a side window under the right circumstances. Bullet vs Car Penetration
Several Videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quqXIxmi2jQ
Website devoted to debunking gun myths http://www.theboxotruth.com/
(Disclosure: I know the people who run this website but I am not involved with it.)Bullet bouncing off other things
(to prove that bullets do not always penetrate).
Man’s head – Story - http://www.ohio.com/community/summit_co ... 77884.html
An Officer’s Badge – story - http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/lo ... r-scrutiny
A lake – video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWYDVOj9H7Q
(Please don’t do this. Very unsafe.)
Inside President Reagan – story -http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/z_x40shooting_chronology_g.htm
Inside President Kennedy – video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbpF0AIt ... re=related
(First shot deflect into Governor Connally, not second)
(Please don't start into a Kennedy assassination debate. Start a new thread for it.)
I am just asking you to keep your car moving. It makes you a more difficult target to hit and less likely to be pulled out. Keep it moving even if you must push through another car. About me
I have been called a troll, a know-nothing, an egomaniac, a salesman trying to trick you, and an unrealistic child on here and in personal messages from here. That's fine. Call me all the names you want. Please, take what I am saying and truly think about it. I am not trying to score brownie points or prove anything. I am trying to help you survive if things go bad.