SELCO - Real life experience from Balkan Conflict

[JT_of_JFF]

OK, i wanna share with you my own experience. (be patient with my English, i am from far away )
I am from Balkan Region, and as some of you may know it was hell here from 92-95, anyway, for 1 whole year i lived and survived in a city of 50 000- 60 000 residents WITHOUT: electricity, fuel,running water,real food distribution, or distribution of any goods, or any kind of organized law or government.The city was surrounded for 1 year and in that city actually it was SHTF situation.

We did not have organized army or police force, there was groups of defenders, actually anybody who had a gun, fight for his own house and his own family.

Some of us was better prepared, but most of families had food for couple of days, some of us had pistol, few owned AK-47 when all started.

Anyway, after one month or two, gangs started with their nasty job,hospital looked like butchery, police force vanished, 80 percent of hospital staff gone home.
I was lucky, my family was big in that time (15 members in one big house, 5-6 pistols, 3 Kalashnikov s) so we lived and survived, most of us.

I remember US Air force dropped MRE every 10 days (god bless USA for that) as help for surrounded city, it just was not enough.Some of houses had little gardens with some vegetables, most did not.
After three months rumors started abouth first deaths from starvation,deaths from low temperatures, we stripped every door , window frame from abandoned houses for heating, i burned all my own furniture for heating, lot of people died from diseases, mostly from bad water (two of my family members), we used rain water for drink, several times i ate pigeons, once i ate rat.
Money did not worth sh..
we traded things, black market worked, few examples: for 1 corned beef can you could have woman for couple of hours(sounds bad, but it was reality) i remember, most of that womans were just desperate mothers, candles, lighters,antibiotics,fuel,batteries, rifle ammo and of course food, we fight like animals for that.
In situation like that lot of things change, most of people turned to monsters, it was ugly.
Strength was in the numbers, if you were alone in the house, you ve been probably robbed and killed, no matter how well armed.

Anyway, war ended, again thanks to America (and again god bless USA for that)
It is not important witch side had right in that war.
It was almost 20 years ago, but believe me, for me it was just like yesterday, i remember everything, and i think i learned a lot.
Me and my family are prepared now,i am well armed, stocked and educated.
It is not important what going to happen, earthquake,war, tsunami,aliens terrorists, important thing is that something gonna be.
And from my expirience, you can not survive alone, strength is in the numbers, be close with your family, prepare with them, choose your friends wisely and prepare with them too.



And at the end, this is my first post, and my English is not so good, so don t judge me too hard.

[JT_of_JFF]

Actually city was broken in something like lot of street communities, in my street (15 or 20 houses) we organized patrols (5 armed man every night) to watch on gangs or enemies.
We traded things between people in that street, 5 miles from my street there was one street with something like organized traders, but it was to dangerous to go there, it worked only during the nighttime (during the day it was sniper alley) and you had more chance to be robed there than to trade, i used that street only 2 times, and belive me, only when i am really need something bad.

[JT_of_JFF]

First, thank you for your questions, i did not expect this amount of interest for my post.
I ll be glad to share lot of things with you guys beecause i want to learn lot of things from you.
Anyway:
Balkan region have lot of woods and forests when you check map, but i lived in city closer to the border, more to the south, i don t want to mention name of the city, but if you check map, south part of my country closer to border is all in rock
Yes we had some trees in my city, parks, fruit trees, but most of the city is building and houses but belive me all trees in the city is going to be burned very fast when you dont have eletricity for cooking and heating.After that all what you have is furniture, doors, wooden floors... (and belive me that stuff is burning too fast)

There was almost no car use in town because: most of the roads jammed with ruins, abandoned cars, destroyed houses stuff like that, and petrol was like gold.
If i needed to go somewhere i almost always used night time, never go alone but also never go in big group (2-3 man maybe), always armed, very fast, always in shadows, trough ruins, rarely openly on the street, actually always hiding.

We did not have suburbs and farmers, in suburbs were enemy army, we were surrounded with enemy army, and inside town you did not know who is your enemy.

And yes, there were organized groops of gangs, 10-15 people, sometimes even 50, but also there were normal peple like you and me, fathers, granddads, decent folks, who robed and killed, there was not too much good and bad guys, most of us was gray, ready for everything.

[JT_of_JFF]

Of course you can ask.
We use what we had, we was not prepared for that situation,we did not know for prepping.
So you can imagine in some aspects we go back in stone age, actually in most of.
We just used everything what we had, one example, i had in my propan(or butan i am not sure) stowe big bottle, cylinder (i am not sure is that right word), and i did not use it for cooking or heating, it was to valuable, i manage to built (fix) that bottle with my friend so i can attach a hose on some kind of ventil (sorry my english is going down here) so i can fill those disposable lighters,(they are not disposable if you knowhow to) those lighter worth a small fortune.
To make story short, somebody bring me empty lighter to me and i fill that lighter with gas, usually i took one can for that or one candle or whatewer he can offer me.


I hope you understand my example, my english is poor on some things.

one more example, i am a registered nurse, in time like that, my knowledge was my thing for trade.
And yes, be trained and educated, in times like that it worth a fortune if you know how to fix things, all your goods is going to be exhausted one day, but your specific knowledge can be your food.
I mean learn to fix things (shoes or people, whatewer you can)
My neighbor use to know how to make some kind of oil for oil lamps( oil in glass, peace of rope) and he was not hungry, he never show me how he made that oil i belive he use some tree behind his house and small amount of disel, i don t know.
My point is learn things, people always need somebody who know to fix things.

It was not survival movie, it was ugly, we did what we have to do to survive.
Nobody wins, we just survived, with a lot of bad dreams.

[JT_of_JFF]

My group was only my family, my blood (relatives like uncles, grandmother...), in my street and in my town trips i had some close friends, but my best friends was my family. I never take stranger in my close group.

[JT_of_JFF]

If i have extra three monts to prepare?

Hmmm, probably run overseas

Joke

OK, Now i am very well aware how things can go very bad in very short time so i have food, hygiene, energy etc. supply for 6 months, i live in apartment with some improved security, i have house with shelter in a village some 5 miles from my apartment, in that house also supply for 6 months, that village small community, most of them are my relatives,most of them are prepared (they learned that from war), i have four kind of fire weapons with 2000 bullets for each (sorry, can not go in details, laws are different here for rifles).
I have big garden with that house and some good knowledge about gardening and farming.

I think i have knowledge now to smell trouble, you know when everybody is saying that everything is going to be fine you somehow know that is everything going to fall apart.

I think i have strength to do everything what it takes to keep me and my family alive, because when everything is going to sh.., be sure, you are going to do some bad things to save your kid. You don t want to be hero, you want to survive with your family.


And i am willing to learn from all of you.

[JT_of_JFF]

One man survivor, no chance ( OK it is my opinion) no matter how well armed and prepared, at the end you gonna die, i ve seen that, many times. Family groups or closest friend with lot of preparing and lots of different knowledge, i believe that is best.

[JT_of_JFF]

Well depends, i quess if you stock only one thing you are not going to survive, unless you want to survive like robber, then you need only gun and lot od ammo.

I believe besides ammo food hygiene and energy things (batteries etc.) you need to focus on small things for trade, pocket knives, lighters, flints.
Also LOT of alcohol, kind that can stay long, i mean stuff like whiskey and that, does not important what kind, you can have cheapest kind, it is very good thing for trade in desperate time.
Also lack of hygiene things killed a lot of people, i ve seen that.
You gonna need to have some simple things, like for example lot of garbage bags, i mean a lot, many uses for that, and a LOT of duct tape, many many uses for that.
In case of weapon keep it simple, i mean now i always carry Glock 45 with me, because i like that gun, but it is not usual gun and usual caliber here, so i also have two 7,62 mm TT russian pistols hidden, because almost everybody have that gun here and a lot ammunition.
I don t like Kalashnikov, but here there is that rifle on almost every 3rd house so...

Most of the time i collect my water from roof in 4 big barrels during the war, then cooked to desinfect, we also had river in that town , too poluted but if you can t choose...
I don t think i am expert, i am here to learn.


I quess it depends how far you going to go to survive with your actions, you need to be prepared to do some ugly things.

Oh yes it changed my perspective on life, i know now that bad things can happens, and on more important thing, actually i believe it is most important: I don't anymore believe government and authority, not at all. When they really doing their best to assure you that everything going to be fine, you can be sure that something bad is happening.

Do not just believe, research.

[JT_of_JFF]

Well, who ever died or get killed in that period, did not get proper funeral.
Folks used used every peace of free land, close to house for burial, sometimes even in the garden, 2-3 city parks turned to graveyards,after war most of them are exhumed and properly buried.
There was not noting like burning bodies or anything similar, as far as i know.

Oh one more interesting thing about fire, some people use to go few miles during the night only to find fire somewhere so they can fire peace of wood and bring it home, and start fire for cooking or heating, lighters and matches was really precious, and most of the folks did not have enough firewood do keep always fire. For most of the people it was constant search for something, fire,wood,food,ammo...

[JT_of_JFF]

Hm, i had a lot of alcohol as i mentioned before, i traded almost everything without any problem, let me say it like this: consumption of alcohol was probably 10 times more than in normal time.Not to mention cleaning and disinfection.

On the other side you made a very good point, if you have money and time and you have a storage it is probably better to store cigarettes or candles and batteries for trade, or food.

I was not prepper at that time, we did not have time to prepare, few days before SHTF politicians on TV stated that everything is fine, when sky fell down we just take what you can.
Thanks

[JT_of_JFF]

Yes you right.

About cooking, before the SHTF i used in my house electricity for booth, cooking and heating, so when everything started i traded some stuff for some kind of old wood stove, i put it in kitchen ad fix exhaust pipe (right word?) trough hole in wall, i use that for cooking and heating.

During the summer i cooked in my backyard (walled fence, brick, luckily)

Concerning the smell of the food, hm, i ll try to picture situation: no electricity, no running water, sewage off for months, dead bodies in ruined houses, grime and mess, believe me it was very hard to smell something nice.
It was not like in movies, it was ugly,dirty, and smelly.
Yes i had few problems because of cooking, only few, but as i sad before, enough people, properly armed and with will to defend and you can manage most of the problems with that.

Probably situation would be different in wilderness.

I ate mostly some kind of pancakes with local herbs (does not require cooking oil and too much firewood), and of course everything what i could get and trade, rice was good to eat, not too much firewood for that.

I think i had luck, only few times i ate funny things like pigeons.

I always had something to trade, i guess that saved me, and guns of course.

[JT_of_JFF]

First almost nobody were out during the day because of snipers, line of defence was very close, so whatever you have to do, you do it during the night, trade something, look for firewood (i can express how much this was important in town, and hard), looking for anything, check somebody, go to hear news (very very important, lot of people get killed because they go somewhere just to see what happening, or what s new) remember, no news, no radio ,no tv, nothing, rumors fed lot of people.

Already explained, you can stay home and die of hunger and cold, or even infection of some small wound or go out and risk your life, try to find - trade anything useful

I did have situations concerning my house only, it is no need for too much details, we had more fire power, and brick wall.
Also we had something like street watch, people from my street were good organized, in case of gangs, now there were a lot shootings.

There was pretty much shooting in town, i did not have enough weapon at the beginning, one rifle and one pistol (ww2), maybe 100 bullets, later i trade some things for more rifles and ammo, remember i gave car battery for 2 rifles.How much ammo ?
A LOT, as more as you can.

Most of the time you are not able to determine who is enemy or friend, expect my family and few real friend, everybody else is potential enemy. When your friend must choose between his child s death and your death quess who is going to choose.

6. Rumors, somebody tells you that some old guy few block away have some cans and he is looking for ammo or whatever, you go there, as i say you are always looking for something.Same some people would came in my street as traders, witha some goods.
There was something like trade street during the night, actualy it was a big ruins of sport center, you can go overthere and look for something or offer something, but it was not controlled by anyone so it was too dangerous.

It was primitive pretty much, brick wall around house,bags of sand on windows and doors, over that bags we used whatever you can, big pieces of metal, stones, inside house we put all kind of stuff on windows, only small openning left for rifle, always 5 members of family ready for fight, one always outside on street hidden.
Stone age situation

To avoid snipers, we stay home at day, it was not so much night snipers, even during the night we never walked openly on the streets if we can avoid that, always shortcuts, trough ruins, fast and quiet.

[JT_of_JFF]

Everything connected to hygiene worth ed a lot, toilet paper too, after some time i believe more people dies from diseases connected with lack of hygiene than from gangs.

[raptor]

http://shtfschool.com/

I am going to bump this thread and note this blog. I assume this is also SELCO the experiences and writing look similar. It is a damn good read and worth the time to read it.

[knightoftheroad]

Thanks for posting this thread!

A lot of information from firsthand experience to read and consider.

[triumph2]

This was a very informative link a lot of good info , just wish I'd found this earlier as 42 pages was a lot to sift through , all on all very good

[catalyst]

i just signed up for his site. $20. I think the audio mp3's are great - I wanted to listen to these at work. I think this is such a great take on a real world experience. I think his concern that firearms and ammo are the most important, I tend to agree with BOTH sides. I think firearms are more important at the onset when there is a power grab, but less important once the masses are culled. Then... the other supplies come in to play.

[flsgear]

Yeah I signed up for his 20 dollar 8 hours of audio + a couple vids + the prep list/survival guide.

The survival guide is skimpy, but the 8 hours of audio more than make up for it.
The prep list was really really interesting. There were some outright gems in there, like 'get 5 body bags because they can carry 200 lbs of goods very easily' ... brilliant stuff.

and of course I have no affiliation with him beyond being someone who enjoys his content and pays to be a customer

[boomas]

Hmm, I have just read all Selco post last night and was thinking to subscribe for 20 dol. too. Question was is it worth it? From your replies I understand it is a good investment

[flsgear]

Boomas - speaking strictly as a customer of his: I have no business affiliation and it has been well worth it. Over 30 Mp3 audio (Him monologuing and answering questions) tracks, 5 or 6 videos, definitely worth the 20 dollars.

Hell, most people spend more than that on mcdonalds in a week

[boomas]

Thanks flsgear. and, yes, I googled him to see (if any) false flags reports. Also the price 20 bucks, as you said, is less then someone spend in McD.

[Laager]

Well I can tell you he is right about the neighbors wanting to "hook" into your generator (I spent over a $1000.00 for a 7500 Watt Portable Generator), and then complaining about you not letting them.

While it was not a serious SHTF situation, we used to live on a U.S. military base overseas. Because of the aging power lines/equipment and the fact that people went buck wild during the summer with AC units (the houses on base as well as off did not have any type of AC or even fans) as well as during the Christmas season (all those lights left on 24/7) the base housing units experienced frequent brown outs, usually lasting six to eight hours or longer.

Since I had been there before (when I was single) and remembered how bad it was living in the barracks and having the power go out, I bought a generator (which my wife thought was stupid and a waste of money) and had it shipped over in our household goods shipment, as well as some new unused 5 gallon gas cans.

The first time the power went out, I hooked up the generator and we had lights and power for the fridge and freezer (for some reason my wife was extremely happy). Shortly after the lights went on people came over ask why we had power (lights) and they did not. I did let my next door neighbor hook up, but the rest of them were pains in the rear end from the get go.

Next time a few asked to hook up so that their kids could watch tv or they could watch "the game". Nope, sorry not going to happen....I'm not even letting my kids watch tv or play video games, why would I let you or your kids.

Pretty soon (after about two or three months) they would be outside (summer time in the tropics is not a good time to have no power) with their flashlights and candles complaining loudly that it was not fair that I had a generator and power while they did not, as well as moaning about the fact that I would not share.

Eventually for some strange reason (someone called to complain) the fire department showed up, the base security police showed up a few times. Nothing was ever done, I never broke base regs, but I could see which way it would go if there was a real SHTF situation.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

Thank you for that post Laager!

In my enthusiasm to spread the gospel of prepping I tend to not follow very good opsec.
This is a good reminder that casual friends may not be so friendly in time of scarcity. And even worse in time of dire need. I think I'll start being more careful.

[Crazy Wolf]

I'm wondering whether a simple solution to the generator problem would be to post a price list. Allow people to hook up, but charge them a mildly painful amount. If you're feeling more kind than greedy, then underneath all your prices post the cost of a comparable generator, the cost of a few 5-gallon cans, and the current cost of gasoline. If you can measure the output of your generator to each outlet, then you can see if they're trying to get around your price list (by having one guy plug in an extension cord, then having eight guys plug in their fridges or something) and cut them off.