Diesel truck info. HELP!!

[cygor98]

So I want to replace my 99 Dakota with a 1 ton Crew Cab Diesel truck. 4x4 would be cool but not a requirement.

I have looked at all of the big 3 and Ford seems to be the most readily available but not sure what I should be looking for in good deals.
Other than that I am not very picky on model.

So here is where you guys come in.

What engines are desirable and which ones should I avoid?
Are there years that have specific problems that I should look out for?
I don;t plan on putting a ton of miles on the truck so is there a cross over point of mileage that I should avoid?

Basically I would like this to turn into a one stop shop for info on the heavier duty trucks with out having to go through the brand specific forums and websites.

All help is appreciated.

[Red_Snow]

Get a 6.7 cummins with all the deletes done and rock on.








Any of the diesel's, IMO, are great engines if you address their problem areas right off the bat. The 6.7 Cummins needs to have the EGR/DPF deleted to run worth a shit. The 7.3 Powerstroke needs to have turbo work as well as headstuds and headgaskets replaced/upgraded. The 6.0 Powerstroke needs headstuds and emmissions work, etc etc.

If you want a diesel that needs the least amount of work look into the 5.9l 24 valve common rail Cummins. Can find older Mega Cab 4x4 5.9's for decent prices right now. The only problem is having a multi-million mile motor in a 100,000 mile chassis....

[cygor98]

What do you mean by "all the deletes done"

I am very mechanically inclined but I don't have the vocabulary so the more detail the better.

I didn't mention a budget in hopes of getting a scaled response, but I want to spend around $10-15k

[lunicy]

I have a construction company. I have had a bunch of truck. Here is my 2c:

I have a Ford Superduty Van with the 7.3L turbo diesel (international). It has 390,000 miles on it, No bullshit. Still runs fine.

I had a Chevy 3500 with a 6.5L turbo diesel (Detroit). It had 300,000 when I let it go. (Damn I miss that truck) The engine is solid as hell. There are injection pump problems that show up after a lot of miles. The repair is pricey, but there is an aftermarket soulution that is much cheaper.

I had a Chevy 3500hd with the 6.6L Duramax turbo diesel (Izuzu). The engine has all the balls in the world. But it was and electronic nightmare. At 190,000 the engine was smoking. Couldn't see it lasting as long as the old school counterparts. BTW The allison Trans is the tits. What a solid trans.

I had an international straight truck, but that is out of your realm. BTW, you cannot kill them.

I base this on second hand info, for I have not owned one, but my peers have.
The dodge has and awesome engine. The cummings is a real mean SOB. Unfortunately they put it in a POS. The only good thing about the truck is the engine.

2WD duallys suck monkey butt in the snow.

[mad4wd]

Cygor,
I own both cummins and powerstrokes currently and we work on customers vehicles everyday. I have a few questions for you. What do you want to do with it? Do you take your vehicles to the dealer for service? Are you a maintenace freak? Do you want to lift it? How long do you plan to keep it? Is that a pretty firm budget?

Lar

[cygor98]

Its basically a home depot truck for me, however i would like to use it as a camp truck and general people hauler when needed (daily driver is a miata and i work from home)

I don't plan on putting a ton of miles on it so having it run for over a decade shouldn't be a problem once the mileage maintenance is done.

i don't take my cars to the dealer unless its under warranty. and basically anything short of machining i feel comfortable doing anything to the truck that needs to be done, up to and including welding if need be.


my budget is pretty firm, this is my secondary vehicle so i cant justify spending a ton of money on it.

[ZombieSoldier01]

well for ford, its really really hard to kill the 7.3 powerstroke. I love my 7.3 powerstroke in my 1999 F250 Superduty. You dont have quiet the power potential as the newer motors but trust me 500hp is easily attainable still. (that is a awesome amount of power when you figure its about 1000-1100 ft pounds of torque.) also the difference between an f250 and f350 is nothing more then the blocks in the rear suspension. the frames are the same thickness, the springs are the same part numbers, the shocks are the same part numbers etc. so save a little money and get the f250.

[cygor98]

well for ford, its really really hard to kill the 7.3 powerstroke. I love my 7.3 powerstroke in my 1999 F250 Superduty. You dont have quiet the power potential as the newer motors but trust me 500hp is easily attainable still. (that is a awesome amount of power when you figure its about 1000-1100 ft pounds of torque.) also the difference between an f250 and f350 is nothing more then the blocks in the rear suspension. the frames are the same thickness, the springs are the same part numbers, the shocks are the same part numbers etc. so save a little money and get the f250.

I have heard that the 7.3 is the goto engine for the fords, how bad is the replacement? is it really bad or just not as awesome?

Is the frame on the 250 and 350 the same for all years? and does it get its capacity from just the axles if the springs are the same?


I am not keen on getting a dually, however for the right price i would get one and convert it to super singles.

[VeniVidiVici]

I have a 1st gen 12 valve Cummins diesel 6bt W250 that has over 400k. I say over because the odometer broke 8 years ago! The older mechanical diesels are amazing but the truck is almost not drive able around town honestly. It rides REALLY REALLY bad. Have someone drag you down a bumpy gravel driveway with an ATV and you'll get pretty close to it. They are kind of popular with collectors now so they are really getting up there in price IMO. I've owned a lot of muscle cars, trucks etc over the years and this thing is the only vehicle that never fails to put a smile on my face.

I also had a 95ish 7.3L powerstroke with about 280k on it. Great truck if you don't mind electronics. The ride was much more refined as well. They are the only "modern" or computer controlled diesels I'd ever be interested in buying again. I was getting 20ish MPG pulling a 10k pound trailer with my dually. Just as reliable as the Cummins IMO.

6.7L Cummins is a poser engine, if you really want a good modern Cummins you should look into the older 2nd gen 24 valves. Those were the last HD trucks made here in the USA by Dodge if that's an issue. The 6.7L has too much emissions crap on it to be as good as the older ones. As a general rule more HP=less longevity due to heat stress etc etc(heat is also caused by emissions gear)... The 2nd gens have a great engine but the truck kinda sucks like the older 1st gens IMO .


ETA: I didn't even see the dually comment. IMO going to super singles in a 4x4 dually may be worth it if you tow a lot. People with SRW diesels with 4x4 treat them like gold when they go to sell them. Super singles have a massive price tag as I'm sure you know but you may come out with less cost then you think if you compare the cost + conversion to the SRW versions in 4x4. You would also have the benefit of added towing capacity and an absolutely massive and nearly unbreakable rear axle found on most duallys.

[mad4wd]

Your budget puts you into a 7.3 Ford or a 24V or possibly a common rail Cummins with miles on it. Both are great trucks...I own them both and you will find people on both sides that will fight like cats and dogs over which one is better. I would look for maintenace records, single owner and since you are in TX...buy a 2wd that way you can get the nicest truck you can afford with your budget.

[ZombieSoldier01]

well for ford, its really really hard to kill the 7.3 powerstroke. I love my 7.3 powerstroke in my 1999 F250 Superduty. You dont have quiet the power potential as the newer motors but trust me 500hp is easily attainable still. (that is a awesome amount of power when you figure its about 1000-1100 ft pounds of torque.) also the difference between an f250 and f350 is nothing more then the blocks in the rear suspension. the frames are the same thickness, the springs are the same part numbers, the shocks are the same part numbers etc. so save a little money and get the f250.

I have heard that the 7.3 is the goto engine for the fords, how bad is the replacement? is it really bad or just not as awesome?

Is the frame on the 250 and 350 the same for all years? and does it get its capacity from just the axles if the springs are the same?


I am not keen on getting a dually, however for the right price i would get one and convert it to super singles.

replacement of what? engines? not fun if thats what you are asking, but it can be done over a weekend.

the frame suspension and axles are identicle for F250/350's believe it or not. dont believe me? check part numbers. the difference comes with the f450/550's.

the F250's are a better deal due to price, for the indentical truck.

[cygor98]

well for ford, its really really hard to kill the 7.3 powerstroke. I love my 7.3 powerstroke in my 1999 F250 Superduty. You dont have quiet the power potential as the newer motors but trust me 500hp is easily attainable still. (that is a awesome amount of power when you figure its about 1000-1100 ft pounds of torque.) also the difference between an f250 and f350 is nothing more then the blocks in the rear suspension. the frames are the same thickness, the springs are the same part numbers, the shocks are the same part numbers etc. so save a little money and get the f250.

I have heard that the 7.3 is the goto engine for the fords, how bad is the replacement? is it really bad or just not as awesome?

Is the frame on the 250 and 350 the same for all years? and does it get its capacity from just the axles if the springs are the same?


I am not keen on getting a dually, however for the right price i would get one and convert it to super singles.

replacement of what? engines? not fun if thats what you are asking, but it can be done over a weekend.

the frame suspension and axles are identicle for F250/350's believe it or not. dont believe me? check part numbers. the difference comes with the f450/550's.

the F250's are a better deal due to price, for the indentical truck.

You misunderstood, by replacement, i mean what Ford used once they stopped selling the 7.3L.

Not that it really matters, the 7.3 Fords seem to be whats in my price and age/mileage range.

[ZombieSoldier01]

the 6.0 is a great motor if you get rid of the egr/oil cooler. if you get the kit that alleviates the issues it is an awesome motor with awesome power potentials. but it isnt a cheap fix, but when done it is a FANTASTIC running motor

http://www.mkmcustoms.com/60powerstrokesolution.aspx

i did not wanna deal with the hassel at the time so i bought the 7.3 Powerstroke. At times I wished I woulda manned up and got the 6.0 Powerstroke. Maybe i will sell mine and buy a 6.0 someday

[AK_Stick]

I have to disagree, that 6.0 is not good. It almost broke Ford's competition in the market of heavy duty trucks.


When it comes to true heavy use work trucks, as much as the guys with Dodge love to brag about Cummins, you just don't see many fleets running them.

Ford or Chevy/GMC is all that you really see in AK, and since the 6.0 came out, nearly everyone has gone Duramax. We'll see how this new motor performs, maybe they can get back some of their standing, but that 6.0 simply can not compete with the 6.6/6.7L motors when it comes to towing or pulling.


I have a Duramax, and a 28 ft enlcosed trailer. I've pulled it with my brothers 6.7L mega cab, and my best friends 6.0. The 6.7 is the only motor that I would recommend for someone looking to actually pull a trailer. That poor Ford couldn't compete with the other two.

[ZombieSoldier01]

well again i have to disagree with you. if you would have looked at what i posted you would have seen the link is the parts for a permanent fix to the fords 6.0 major problem. there are thousands of the 6.0's out there with that fix kit pushing 500+ hp reliably, and are doing it not only as daily drivers but as competition vehicles as well. yes they almost did break ford. i will agree with that, but this kit solves that issue 100%. my best bud, runs an 04 with a 6.0 that kit i listed, with a tuner, intake and turbo back is running low 14's and this is a vehicle that he uses for his business and hauls 10,000 pound trailers everyday.

the only thing that is good about the dodge is the cummins. everything else on it is known trademarks and issues. wagon like suspension, problems with body rot, uncomfortable cheap interiors, etc. remember cummins saved dodge in the late 80's and it looks like it is doing it again.

duramax's have had issues with injectors, cracked cylinders sleeves, and well, they run a pussy IFS and so on. (btw i raced a LLY duramax with my old trusty 7.3 with 268,000 miles on it, and not only beat it, but also had to then drag him out of the next intersection because he had no more momentum due his Allison)

so again every manufacturer has faults, every manufacturer has positives. it comes down to what the consumer can deal with, and what suits their needs the best.

BUT with that being said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but false information, they are not. So if you are going to provide false information, i highly suggest you keep it to yourself because a number of us will call you out on it.

BTW as a disclaimer I do like how smooth and quiet my fathers Duramax, and I haved enjoyed ragging on my brother in laws 6.7

[AK_Stick]

If that kit "saves" the 6.0, why then, did Ford drop the 6.0 like it was hot?

Why did they drop Navistar after the 6.0 debacle, and move to make their own motor?


The 6.0 is a bad motor, 500 HP is nothing, my Duramax makes that with a tuner and no work. I'm currently pushing over 750.


You can dispute or "call me out" all you want, but you're the one pushing BS bad info. No matter how you sell your brand of BS, it won't make the 6.0 a decent motor, nor will it make the 6.0 a real work engine either.

[ZombieSoldier01]

haha seriously?

wow, how naive you are. the only major issues the 6.0 has are the egr cooler/oil cooler causing the motor to build pressure and blowing a head gasket. once this issue has been fixed with the proper stuff you have an extremely reliable truck. there are tons of guys pushing loads of power out of hat motor. the reason why navistar and ford dropped the motor was due to the issue stated above. with everyones shit keep failing, (most was due to poor maintenance, thats one of the reasons why they get clogged) the repair costs were extreme. $6000-$7000 due to ford wants to pull the cab off to do the job. I'm not gonna discuss this more the OP can always look up all the info i provide and make an informed decision himself.

as far as your "750hp duramax" prove it. pics, list of mods and dyno printout. I absolutely love when people come onto forums and say i got this or that (newbies are infamous on this), and they dont have jackshit. if you do then i will be a bigger man, appologize and i will move on. so please tell us what series duramax are you running, and what are your mods. also take pics of your actual truck with the afore mentioned mods, and please show us this dyno sheet for 750hp.

I am not saying the duramax wont make that power, there are plenty that are. I JUST LIKE BOV PORN!

[Tater Raider]

I JUST LIKE BOV PORN!

You know that admitting that you have a problem is the first step to figuring out that it's not your problem, it's theirs, right?

[ZombieSoldier01]

I JUST LIKE BOV PORN!

You know that admitting that you have a problem is the first step to figuring out that it's not your problem, it's theirs, right?

yeah that too... and knowing is half the battle

[VeniVidiVici]

Not sure why you guys are arguing about pushing a diesel to 500+ HP in a thread about BOVs. Seems kinda pointless if your goal is a reliable BOV.

Dually axles and single rear wheel axle shafts are VERY different regardless of the fact that they are both 10.25 on (some) Fords and I'm not sure why a diesel expert wouldn't know this. The components inside the axle are made to very different specifications regarding actual torque loads both continuous and maximum, and GAW or GCW ratings. That isn't even taking into account the differences in springs/shock setup on the trucks. Wheel bearings are also different depending on the year if your talking Dodges.

Cummins guys don't have to prove anything. Our engines are found all around the world in industrial applications so rolling down the highway is nothing in comparison to running a generator under load for hundreds if not thousands of hours. Dodge trucks are terrible which is why the older ones without any frills are so popular right now. If Cummins weren't "all that" why do we see entire forums dedicated to swapping Cummins into everything from a lil jeep to a F350?

"BUT with that being said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but false information, they are not. So if you are going to provide false information, i highly suggest you keep it to yourself because a number of us will call you out on it." The 6.0L is an absolutely terrible design that was rushed to market by Ford. Spending a few thousand dollars on a brand new truck to keep the head from cracking under light towing is hardly acceptable.

Not that any of this matters since all of the newer trucks are well out of the price range he is looking at. ZS transportation forums never fail to disappoint.

[AK_Stick]

I don't know why a 500 HP diesel wouldn't be a good BOV, 500 hp isn't exactly unreliable. 750+ yeah, you break a lot, especially when you're pulling/dragging and maxed out but those are completely different beast.


the 2010 Duramax, for example made 365 HP and 660 ft lbs tq stock.

With a transmission upgrade, and a edge/bullydog/van aken/etc chip/programer, you can make an easy 90 hp 220 ft lbs of torque reliably.

The Dodge made 350 HP stock, and chips will easily add another 100 HP 250 ft lbs of torque. Again, beef the torque converter/clutch pack etc to cope with the power, and they can be very reliable daily drivers.


Now I wouldn't rate my truck as a legit BOV, as she's quite worked, and can be downright fickle at times, or be a real bitch and just blow the transmission. When she was bumping off the 500 HP (at the fly wheel) with just a chip, intake, exhaust, billet tq converter/clutch pack, co-pilot, she was legit reliable mild mannered street truck. She made 80K without any failures save for the drivers front wheel bearing.

[Subdiver]

If you want all mechanical, I suggest the 12v Cummins, and the 6.8L Ford, followed by the 6.2 Chevy. Note, the 6.2 should be used near sea level. Following that is the Ford (International) 7.3, which is sweet, but not all mechanical. I just replaced the injectors in one of those, and it wasn't too bad, expensive though. 12v Cummins is your best shot for ponies plus turbo. GET A TURBO. It's free power, and your engine will love you, more.

[VeniVidiVici]

I don't know why a 500 HP diesel wouldn't be a good BOV, 500 hp isn't exactly unreliable. 750+ yeah, you break a lot, especially when you're pulling/dragging and maxed out but those are completely different beast.


the 2010 Duramax, for example made 365 HP and 660 ft lbs tq stock.

With a transmission upgrade, and a edge/bullydog/van aken/etc chip/programer, you can make an easy 90 hp 220 ft lbs of torque reliably.

The Dodge made 350 HP stock, and chips will easily add another 100 HP 250 ft lbs of torque. Again, beef the torque converter/clutch pack etc to cope with the power, and they can be very reliable daily drivers.


Now I wouldn't rate my truck as a legit BOV, as she's quite worked, and can be downright fickle at times, or be a real bitch and just blow the transmission. When she was bumping off the 500 HP (at the fly wheel) with just a chip, intake, exhaust, billet tq converter/clutch pack, co-pilot, she was legit reliable mild mannered street truck. She made 80K without any failures save for the drivers front wheel bearing.

Pointless was a bad choice, it would be more accurate to say high HP isn't one of my "priorities" for a BOV. I'd rather spend the money on a good set of off road tires and cheaper mods that add fuel economy. Although I know some tuners will do that too if you keep your foot off the throttle long enough. I'm surprised to see your truck only made 80k with those mods, I know every truck is different but you sound like one of the unlucky ones. I have to work my truck so I cannot afford to have it go down on the job. The only mods I've done to my CTD had longevity and serviceability in mind. It has the NV4500 conversion for extra strength/parts availability, lockers/tires for traction, brush guard to protect my radiator, and a gooseneck receiver for work. I'd like to add a CB to get some sort of communications. There is nothing worse than breaking down without a way to get a hold of someone. Cell phones solve that problem but it's good to have a safety net IMO.

If you want all mechanical, I suggest the 12v Cummins, and the 6.8L Ford, followed by the 6.2 Chevy.

Those old IDI Fords are dirt cheap too. I saw a reg cab, 4x4, 4 speed go for $2500 on ebay. I really wanted the truck but after contacting the seller I got the feeling that I would have difficulties with him being there when my shipper picked it up/ getting title from him. That's always the gamble you pay with out of state sellers though. I have a 89 7.3L/4x4/Auto that I sold and is supposed to be picked up today, if you look into those old Ford trucks you definately want to stay away from the automatics. The C6 are annoying but the early E40D's are brutal around town.

[AK_Stick]

Oh, the only reason I said she made 80K was thats what she had on the odometer before I started into the heavy modding that pushed her above 500 HP. I've had a couple of failures after, but I can't fault the truck for the extra abuse doubling the HP did.