The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby squinty » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:08 pm

ODA 226 wrote:I am the greyest of the grey..or is it gray? :roll: I decided to try a social experiment and open carried my Springfield Micro Compact .45 ACP in a SERPA paddle and 2 mags in a SERPA paddle mag carrier and my wife's BOB and a map.

I went to the local strip mall and positioned myself in front of Langley Federal Credit Union. As people exited the bank, I approached them with my map and asked them how to get to Nike Park. NO ONE NOTICED or at least MENTIONED MY FIREARM. The only question I had was, "Why you wearin' that big ass backpack?"

I am 6'0", 235 shaved head and tats on both upper arms and wore jeans with a black tank top and desert boots.

I open carry on a regular basis and have never been approached by law enforcement or regular citizens...I was there for almost 45 minutes...am I a freak of nature or what?

BTW: Here's my pic with shaved head and Tats...again, no one has ever mentioned my OC'd pistol (with the exception of asking if it was legal to OC).

Image



You are a freak of nature. My OC experiments have involved a lot of negative attention, and some negative POSITIVE attention ("Hey cool! Is that a Glock? Can I hold it? Is it for sale? Hey Lenny, come lookit this guy carryin' a Glock around!" etc.)

This has been mostly while clean shaven, high close haircut in a 'newscaster neutral' style and business casual garb.
The only LEO attention I garnered was from an out of state cop (from Maryland) who came up behind me and very belligerently and confrontationally asked me if I was familiar with the firearms laws of my state. When I said "yes" and proceeded to explain some of the laws, the ccw process, and other stuff, he got really interested and the interaction became much more pleasant and conversational.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby ODA 226 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:42 am

Squinty,

I'm a regular member at OCDO and really, I OC regularly and I've NEVER had a negative encounter with anyone. Most of my compatriots there say it's because everyone assumes I'm a cop because I, "...look and act like a cop...". Granted, I was a cop in a past life, but I left that career a long time ago.

I've also been told that I have a "quiet confidence" that puts people at ease and scares the shit out of the bad guys.

Whatever it is, it seems to work for me and NO ONE noticed or at least said a word about my OC'd handgun during the entire experiment.

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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby ODA 226 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:48 am

squinty wrote:[The only LEO attention I garnered was from an out of state cop (from Maryland) who came up behind me and very belligerently and confrontationally asked me if I was familiar with the firearms laws of my state.


If that had happened to me with an out of state cop, I'd very politely tell him to piss off. Even when I was a peace officer, I hated cops that would talk trash to citizens.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby squinty » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:50 am

I had the one bad encounter that turned good with a LEO, a lot of nervousness from cashiers and waitresses, and one beer delivery guy who didn't say anything but clearly noticed, and a lot of "hey, cool" responses. The "hey cools" were what turned me off most, as they involved the most attention and ate up the most time of any encounter. I looked fairly conservative, non-threatening and "cop-esque" but admit to feeling a bit self conscious the whole time, which probably showed in my demeanor. I did convert a few people to gun ownership/carrying in the process, though. A few of the people I met showed up later at my local range. I should have asked for a referral bonus.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby squinty » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:55 am

ODA 226 wrote:
squinty wrote:[The only LEO attention I garnered was from an out of state cop (from Maryland) who came up behind me and very belligerently and confrontationally asked me if I was familiar with the firearms laws of my state.


If that had happened to me with an out of state cop, I'd very politely tell him to piss off. Even when I was a peace officer, I hated cops that would talk trash to citizens.


Like I said, that encounter headed north pretty quick - when I answered confidently and didn't get shifty or mad or tongue tied. I think he basically wanted to rattle my cage a little bit and see if I acted "guilty." Which isn't cool, I agree. But once my cage proved rattleproof he calmed down, the whole thing ended well. He was moving to my state, presumably to get a job on some local PD or Sheriff's office. Maybe I did someone else a favor by educating him about my state's gun laws.
George Orwell wrote:Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Shroud » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:49 am

Took me awhile but I read the whole thread. Interesting stuff here.

I've always been pretty invisible without even trying. I do not speak much unless spoken to and am usually pretty calm. I had long hair at one point which stood out in certain environments, but I keep it clipped short now and have a short beard. I also wear plain t-shirts (and jackets) and cargos of black, grey or subdued colors. I look more casual than tactical. I often wear a black baseball hat with a very subtle (local) college logo. I wear most of the same clothes at work. Probably helps that I'm short as well. As others have mentioned, when I don't want to be bothered I just walk with purpose and have a look of slight irritation on my face.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby LulaJane » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:56 pm

Great information - I really enjoyed your post. For the most part, everything you recommend would apply equally to men and women. However, I thought I'd add a few thoughts about The Gray Woman.

Appearance:
I'm average weight, average height, long, non-descript brown hair, etc. In jeans, tshirt and sneakers, I can blend into just about any crowd and usually do. Because most women, myself included, are not in "prime physical condition" we can most times be overpowered by an average sized man. This can make our ability to blend in even more important. Although I do like to occasionally throw on a dress and heels, a real-life SHTF scenario is not a fashion show and the super short shorts or down-to-there blouses will stand out even more.

Education:
In my 40s, until recently, I've been married most of my life. Although I'm a pretty smart woman, there are some things I always left up to the "man of the house." Shortly after we separated, I realized that it was very important to educate myself on a number of things to better take care of myself and my daughter. Out came the car owner's manual, internet research on basic wiring, plumbing, etc. I'm lucky in that I'm pretty mechanical and already knew a good bit, at least in theory. However, in an emergency situation, the last thing I want to do is ask for help for a minor problem and end up asking the wrong person. The more I can learn now, the less chance of being in a vulnerable position and/or being noticed.

Weapons:
I have carried a gun for years. Whenever it has come up in conversation, I find I'm usually asked, "Would you use it?" My answer is an unequivocable "Fucking A" I would use it. However, I do know women who have guns and hesitate before responding. Not to get too far off into this, but please, Ladies, if you won't use your gun, don't carry it.

Demeanor:
This is very situationally dependent, but I have learned over the years that I can gain a great deal of cooperation and/or information by "being female." Face it, Guys, you like impressing us with your knowledge and being the Knight in Shining Armour. I don't mean playing the stereotypical "dumb chick" but women do have an advantage in gaining information if they play to a man's desire to impress but there is a fine line here. I gained a great deal of experience in this area while working as a paralegal. You'd be amazed how often opposing counsel's office / Judge's clerks, etc have given me information or assistance that my managing attorney could never have gotten just because I asked for help nicely.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. Thanks again for all the great info.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby skelco » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:05 am

Being new here I've been reading as much as I can, including this thread in its entirety. this subject has certainly covered a lot of ground and the meaning of the "gray man" seems to vary but I what I get from it is the importance of situational awareness and adaptability…a couple of things that have served me well throughout my life.

Paying attention to what is going on around you is the most important thing you can do. I'm always adding things to my experience bank, both good and bad. The hard lessons of the past help me navigate difficult situations now. Adaptability lets me choose where I will fit into those situations.

I have lived, worked and traveled in some pretty rough areas, and have learned some lessons the hard way. Most of the time, (to me at least) the best cover is to understand what is going on there and to look like you belong. This may require you to slip through the crowd, walk with it, swagger with the tough guys or look like a cop. This requires no elaborate costume, as it's all body language. You just need to have the smarts to know which one to chose and the confidence to pull it off.

I have to put things into real world scenarios. Where I live (San Francisco) the things I would anticipate the most are an earthquake and a 9/11 style attack. Since it's a compact city, I know that, barring some kind of chemical/nuclear contamination, I can get home from any part of the city in under three hours on foot. I know the city well and can navigate many routes day or night. My goal would be to return to my home base as soon as possible after such an event, banking that the initial chaos will be keeping people busy long enough to prevent any interest in me. This gets more troublesome when working on the other side of one of our bridges but that's where preparation and adaptability come in; Emergency supplies in the car, alternate routes, and don't discount making sure you know where your friends in the area live!

As far at the SHTF full scale civil unrest scenario, I'm anticipating there would be a little build up for that, enough time for me to either hole up in the ol' bunker or bug out before the S actually HTF. One things for sure to me, if the streets are overrun with zombies, thugs or starving transvestite hookers, I don't think walking around with a clip board is gonna be much help ;).
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Valorius » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:56 am

Who on earth would ever want to be invisible...?
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby raptor » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:59 am

Valorius wrote:Who on earth would ever want to be invisible...?


Someone who was getting fired upon, being chased by people intent on hurting him or someone trying to avoid either of the above.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Valorius » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:06 am

It would be much easier to just kill the people shooting at you then to spend your life being invisible, no?

I'm just sayin'... ;)

I used to be an Infantryman, so i understand the need for stealth, i assure you, but in the civvie world, not so much. There's nothing low profile about my appearance.

There's a saying i live by, "I don't fear anything that breathes the same air as me."

Besides, the zombies can smell ya anyway. ;)
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby raptor » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:20 am

Valorius wrote:It would be much easier to just kill the people shooting at you then to spend your life being invisible, no?

I'm just sayin'... ;)

I used to be an Infantry SDM, so i understand the need for stealth, i assure you, but in the civvie world, not so much. There's nothing low profile about my appearance.

There's a saying i live by, "I don't fear anything that breathes the same air as me."


Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here.


I suggest that you read this thread and the following threads:

This thread is a counter argument to this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83971

This is a thread on lethal force:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3225

This is a thread on Accountability for your actions if you decide to shoot someone.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60213


Finally I would note that while it is great not fear anything that breathes the same air as you, there are times when discretion is the better part of valor.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Valorius » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:26 am

raptor wrote:
Valorius wrote:It would be much easier to just kill the people shooting at you then to spend your life being invisible, no?

I'm just sayin'... ;)

I used to be an Infantry SDM, so i understand the need for stealth, i assure you, but in the civvie world, not so much. There's nothing low profile about my appearance.

There's a saying i live by, "I don't fear anything that breathes the same air as me."


Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here.


I suggest that you read this thread and the following threads:

This thread is a counter argument to this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83971

This is a thread on lethal force:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3225

This is a thread on Accountability for your actions if you decide to shoot someone.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60213


Finally I would note that while it is great not fear anything that breathes the same air as you, there are times when discretion is the better part of valor.

Thanks for the links! I should probably point out that i'm not new to any of these discussions, been involved in them on a lot of boards and in a lot of squad bays over the years, and i have about 15+ years experience working and carrying a weapon in some of the worst ghettos in America, but it's nice to see them all here on one forum at one time, this place really seems like an awesome forum.

That being said, i readily acknowledge that i don't know everything, and i look forward to learning a lot on this site as time goes by. Thanks again for the links!

Anyway, one thing my experience has taught me is to be the lion, not the anonymous lamb. Thugs respect strength and force. It's hard to project that when you're trying to be the anonymous lamb in a herd.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby raptor » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:28 am

Valorius wrote:Anyway, one thing my experience has taught me is to be the lion, not the anonymous lamb. Thugs respect strength and force. It's hard to project that when you're trying to be the anonymous lamb in a herd.



You should like the counter argument to this thread then. This is exactly the discussion that is going on there. But please read the whole thread before posting to it. :D
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Valorius » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:02 am

raptor wrote:
Valorius wrote:Anyway, one thing my experience has taught me is to be the lion, not the anonymous lamb. Thugs respect strength and force. It's hard to project that when you're trying to be the anonymous lamb in a herd.



You should like the counter argument to this thread then. This is exactly the discussion that is going on there. But please read the whole thread before posting to it. :D

It's hard to fight the urge to jump right in and post when a thread is this long as it can be very time consuming, but i'll do my best to review the whole thread before posting in the future.

And yes, i did find the other thread to be very interesting. I posted a response to your question there that really covers my basic views on this matter pretty succinctly, i think.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby raptor » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:06 am

Valorius wrote:
raptor wrote:
Valorius wrote:Anyway, one thing my experience has taught me is to be the lion, not the anonymous lamb. Thugs respect strength and force. It's hard to project that when you're trying to be the anonymous lamb in a herd.



You should like the counter argument to this thread then. This is exactly the discussion that is going on there. But please read the whole thread before posting to it. :D

It's hard to fight the urge to jump right in and post when a thread is this long as it can be very time consuming, but i'll do my best to review the whole thread before posting in the future.

And yes, i did find the other thread to be very interesting. I posted a response to your question there that really covers my basic views on this matter pretty succinctly, i think.


ZS is not like a lot of forums. Many of the threads take a long to read and digest. The members will lose patience with you if you have not read the whole thread.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby squinty » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:17 am

One lion will challenge another for territory, but let a nondescript animal pass.
It's better to be inconspicuous until the need arises to project an image of strength. Avoiding undue attention is not the same thing as acting timid or reticent. In fact, acting scared or vulnerable is the opposite of "grey" - it's attention gathering behavior. Lambs aren't anonymous - they are the very thing predators look for. Confidence - the attitude that you belong here, nothing to worry about - is greyer than nervous shrinking behavior. A poker face beats both an aggressive stare and a scaredy face.

I have been harassed for making eye contact (considered by some douchebags as challenging behavior) and harassed when I looked quickly at the ground (scared or submissive behavior) and harassed when I was obviously distracted (mugged while bent over loading crap into my car trunk.). I've never been bothered when I looked genuinely unperturbed by the people around me, and uninteresting to them. I've never been bothered when I acted like I belonged where I was.

One thing to do is, if people single you out for attention, quietly let them know you noticed them notice you. A noncommital greeting or minimal, confident acknowledgement of their attention dissuades them from thinking that you're condition white. I've had people walk towards me in dark parking garages turn and walk the other way when I lifted my head to see who was coming. Why the change in route? If they were just walking to their car, wouldn't they have kept going? Or did my raised head and quick glance their way frighten them? (Unlikely. I look - and am - about as dangerous as small dog.)
I have read most of this thread, it's just all become sort of a blur lately.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby KnightoftheRoc » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:01 pm

Valorius wrote:
raptor wrote:
Valorius wrote:It would be much easier to just kill the people shooting at you then to spend your life being invisible, no?

I'm just sayin'... ;)

I used to be an Infantry SDM, so i understand the need for stealth, i assure you, but in the civvie world, not so much. There's nothing low profile about my appearance.

There's a saying i live by, "I don't fear anything that breathes the same air as me."


Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here.


I suggest that you read this thread and the following threads:

This thread is a counter argument to this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83971

This is a thread on lethal force:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3225

This is a thread on Accountability for your actions if you decide to shoot someone.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60213


Finally I would note that while it is great not fear anything that breathes the same air as you, there are times when discretion is the better part of valor.

Thanks for the links! I should probably point out that i'm not new to any of these discussions, been involved in them on a lot of boards and in a lot of squad bays over the years, and i have about 15+ years experience working and carrying a weapon in some of the worst ghettos in America, but it's nice to see them all here on one forum at one time, this place really seems like an awesome forum.

That being said, i readily acknowledge that i don't know everything, and i look forward to learning a lot on this site as time goes by. Thanks again for the links!

Anyway, one thing my experience has taught me is to be the lion, not the anonymous lamb. Thugs respect strength and force. It's hard to project that when you're trying to be the anonymous lamb in a herd.

What if you're the wolf, and want to slip into the herd unseen? And yes, it IS hard to project that lion persona when trying to blend into the herd, as you put it- that's kind of the idea. BTW, I suggest we stop right here with "herd animal" references, especially involving sheep. For one, comparing people to them is against forum rules, and two, the discussion of them in general gets certain members all excited, and that leads to thread derails.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby squinty » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:34 pm

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
Valorius wrote:
raptor wrote:
Valorius wrote:It would be much easier to just kill the people shooting at you then to spend your life being invisible, no?

I'm just sayin'... ;)

I used to be an Infantry SDM, so i understand the need for stealth, i assure you, but in the civvie world, not so much. There's nothing low profile about my appearance.

There's a saying i live by, "I don't fear anything that breathes the same air as me."


Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here.


I suggest that you read this thread and the following threads:

This thread is a counter argument to this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83971

This is a thread on lethal force:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3225

This is a thread on Accountability for your actions if you decide to shoot someone.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60213


Finally I would note that while it is great not fear anything that breathes the same air as you, there are times when discretion is the better part of valor.

Thanks for the links! I should probably point out that i'm not new to any of these discussions, been involved in them on a lot of boards and in a lot of squad bays over the years, and i have about 15+ years experience working and carrying a weapon in some of the worst ghettos in America, but it's nice to see them all here on one forum at one time, this place really seems like an awesome forum.

That being said, i readily acknowledge that i don't know everything, and i look forward to learning a lot on this site as time goes by. Thanks again for the links!

Anyway, one thing my experience has taught me is to be the lion, not the anonymous lamb. Thugs respect strength and force. It's hard to project that when you're trying to be the anonymous lamb in a herd.

What if you're the wolf, and want to slip into the herd unseen? And yes, it IS hard to project that lion persona when trying to blend into the herd, as you put it- that's kind of the idea. BTW, I suggest we stop right here with "herd animal" references, especially involving sheep. For one, comparing people to them is against forum rules, and two, the discussion of them in general gets certain members all excited, and that leads to thread derails.

Stock response: I am neither sheep, wolf sheepdog lion or lamb. For better or worse I am a man. :lol:

No I agree with Valorius insofar as there is a social aspect to being grey, in a civilian context, and looking or acting scared or furtive is about as gray as a neon sign. So is acting loud or tough.

Acting like you belong wherever you are, and giving no memorable cues to your internal state or your intentions = grey. Confidence = grey. Not telegraphing your punches or your next move = grey. Walking calmly and quickly to an exit rather than sprinting = grey.

"Projecting force" =/= grey, anymore than projecting fear or vulnerability. There are plenty of situations where you don't want to call attention to yourself. If only because acting awkward or offended might get you inconvenienced at the airport.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby KnightoftheRoc » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:03 pm

I just posted this over in the other Grey Man thread, I think it pertains:
KnightoftheRoc wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
1. Avoid contact with anyone.

2. If you don't want to get compromised during a Bug Out, avoid roads, trails, powerlines, waterways and populated areas.

3. Lay low during the day and move only at night. Collect water from sources only at night.

4. Travel along predeterimined and pre-scouted routes.

5. Have a Primary, Alternate and an Emergency Plan for EVERY Course of Action.

6. Exercise strict Noise, Light and Smell Discipline.

7. When moving at night, move slowly & deliberately. You want to SEE the other guy before he HEARS you!

8. Stop, Scan and Listen before you begin to move.

9. DON"T STEAL ANYTHING FROM ANYONE!

10. Never forget that your ultimate goal is to survive and thrive!

This strategy has never failed me in training or IRL. Please consider changes to YOUR Bug Out tactics also!

I will argue against the Grey Man being a myth, in the sense of the Grey Man being the unnoticed man (or woman). The so called 'definition' that seems to have become attached to the phrase here on ZS has gotten, IMHO, terribly misconstrued. In a true SHTF scenario, that's a real tough one to make a call on before-hand. An inner-city environment is about as close as most of us come to it. And, the larger the city, at least here in the US, the closer that inner-city environment comes to a SHTF scenario. My own city isn't too big, but it IS close enough to NYC that we get a lot of gang oriented drug dealing up here. Where I live, last population check, is a little over 25,000. We have our own areas that no sane person would walk in alone, especially if they don't already live in those areas. so, how does this relate to the topic? Simple.

I walk anywhere in this town I want to. Not because I'm the baddest dude walking, not the case by far. I'm not the biggest, or the baddest, nor am I one of those people involved in the illegal doings of those neighborhoods. I'm not saying everyone who lives there is a drug dealing low life, but there are enough who are that the neighborhoods get the reputation for it. So, how do I manage to walk through these areas, at any time of day or night, and avoid problems? As you can see by my profile pic, I'm not an especially tough looking guy,and in fact, I look older and (perceivably) weaker than I actually am. I'm not a black belt in anything, and I don't carry a gun. In short, I ain't freakin' Batman here.
How I do it is simple- I go grey as possible. I dress to fit the area, while avoiding gang colors. I don't talk to people, or get involved in anything. I rarely use the stores in the areas. I pass through, and that's about it. 99% of the time, this is all I need. The other 1% is when the grey approach has not worked, and someone else approaches me. An example: One night, while walking home from a friend's place, I had to pass an area well known for the drug dealing going on there. I was on the opposite side of the street, but some dude decided to approach me anyway. He was on my radar immediately, as I was watching for trouble, due to the area, and the group hanging out. When he got closer, he asked me "What you need, man, what you need?" (meaning what drugs did I want). I didn't break pace, but turned my head toward him, "game face" on, and told him all I needed was for him to go away. He was completely at a loss for words at that point. He finally shrugged, and went back to his friends. He managed to see past 'the grey man', because he WAS LOOKING for people- no one would have gone past unseen. When he approached, he got to see what his friends could not- my 'game face'. It's a look I adopt that says to anyone taking a look that "this man has no sense of humor". Or patience for A-holes. It works all the time at my job, where I do night security.
This 'game face' is where, and how, I can project a show of force, without it having to be visible to anyone not close by, or breaking any laws- it's still legal to look pissed off, last I checked. This is why I say that the grey man DOES exist, CAN exist, and can still project a show of force, without giving up that grey man status to the rest of his surroundings. It wasn't about what gear I had, or didn't have. It wasn't about whistling in the dark as I walked past, or sneaking past with an empty cardboard box over me as a disguise. And it wasn't about throwing down on a possible threat with superior firepower.
When I walk through these areas- and I sometimes must, or I don't bother with them- I stand out. I have to, it's simply a matter of build and race. These neighborhoods are primarily Black or Latino in makeup, and I cannot pass as either. I'm 6'2", and 210 pounds. I'm never going to pass as one of the Mexican or South American guys who have moved here. I'm certainly never going to be mistaken as being Black, either. Yet, I walk where I will, and the only times I get noticed at all, it's a nod of the head in passing, if that.

Would/could this approach work if the SHTF here? I cannot honestly say one way or the other- it's an unknown, and depends on too many also unknown factors. Would a pack make a difference? On a normal day, probably not, not for me, not for my area. When it's all gone to hell? It likely could- as ODA has been pointing out, anything of perceived value is likely to make you a person of interest to people you don't want to meet. If it's a small group, or a single guy, like in my example, that game face may be enough to make them re-think it- if they are armed, or desperate enough, or using drugs and in an altered state as a result, the game face probably isn't going to be enough. The best bet there is not to be there in the first place- failing that, un-ass the vicinity. If you've been seen, and approached, you've already failed in a big way, and your last chance is to either stand and fight vs. uneven odds, or run like hell.

ODA has offered some excellent examples, all based on real-life experience, and anyone lacking that experience would do well to listen and learn from it. The Grey Man isn't about super ninja skillz, it's about not being noticed. If you are visible, what you carry is too, and can make you a target.

For the record, I'm usually wearing a black cowboy hat, and if the weather dictates, a long black duster. Most of my wardrobe is black, as I'm a minister, and my night job (security) doesn't require a uniform- but the black clothing makes me stand out at work well enough to look properly "official". My only 'weaponry' at work is a 3D Maglite. At work, standing out is desirable. For the walk there, or the walk home, it's grey man enough that I'm never stopped by anyone.
silentpoet wrote:My first two warning shots are aimed center of mass. If that don't warn them I fire warning shots at their head until they are warned enough that I am no longer in fear for my life.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Mr. E. Monkey » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:50 pm

squinty wrote:Unlikely. I look - and am - about as dangerous as small dog.

I dunno, man, raccoons can be crazy mean!
SMoAF wrote:'Tis better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:ZS Primate Squad to the rescue ! :lol:

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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Ableto » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:37 am

Well since im not welcome in the other counterpoint thread. I am going to post here since im am Pro gray man. The Gray Man effect is useful and is in most cases the only thing some ppl visiting these forums have. What im going to post is WHEN the gray man is effective. Also i will point out a few things that i believe that others really need to keep tabs on during certain events.

I would point out that Doc Torr's post http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=84643 Is very informative and is very useful, and many points on Oda's counterpoint to this thread is also good. Im here to point out a few things that are being over looked. I never really had a problem with Oda's or others helpful information. I just disagreed with their part regarding the gray man being a myth. I already know most of what they posted, or else i wouldnt of posted many What if scenarios in the counterpoint thread.

1.Gray man is used as a tactic, and strategy. Its a tactic to get you to your goal, as in being gray will help you get by lets say road blocks or checkpoints or get information. Its a strategy to use to hide among others when needed, or to get information. Being a gray many has its pro's and con's and is only useful at certain times.

2. Looking the part. As in many other posts in this thread you have to look the part. Most of the time you are looking the part. The clothes you wear is your gray man gear. If your in clothing that looks your style and character that ppl find acceptable and not taken as a easy target. Then your pretty much there with the look your going for. If your in a 3 piece suit for work when a disaster hits, then changing clothes should be done. In disasters or other events, the majority of the ppl in the areas around you will be wearing what ever they have. All your doing is looking like them to pass un-noticed.

3. When is the gray man effect best to use. Like all disasters there is a time period when the gray man effect is useful and when it is not. At a start of a disaster, the gray man effect can be used and can help in many situations. For example, if a big earthquake hit and your out on the street and had to walk home. Depending on what your wearing, you can mostly get by and not be bothered by other ppl trying to get home. At this point you will be getting home by what ever means, car, walking, etc. At this stage of a disaster we would be at Condition Yellow or condition orange (see Doc Torr's post listed above in my post) depending on the neighborhood your going through to get home. Also you will be using more of Doc's BAMCIS and OSMEAC to get home or where ever your going, but your using the gray man effect to help you look less as a target from some that will take advantage of the disaster. In this stage of a disaster, you would not be wearing tacticool gear. Tacticool gear will only get you funny looks from the local ppl and more attention from the local law enforcment.

Being gray is useful that can help get you out of a bind as long as you play the part. If your in a bad area and you see a cop, its best to go up to the cop and ask for directions or get information about the area to help you plan your escape route.

4. How long will it last. The gray man will last till just into a SHTF situation. As in, If a big earthquake hits and you head home, things will be ok to use the gray man. Be aware of any signs that pop up, listen to the news. Keep tabs on the area around you. These signs will tell you if its best to bug in or bug out. If you have to bug out before the SHTF, playing the gray man can help get you out of the city where check points and road blocks might be at. Sometime when most of the food runs out from the stores and the population is not happy, and somehow the government is not coming to help ether due to many problems or down right collapse. Then the gray man effect will be almost useless. When the streets are just filled with armed ppl to do harm, then the gray man effect is out the window, and no matter what you wear, your a target, and you should follow Oda's advice to stay hid and not want to talk to others unless the situation comes up. At that point your actions will tell how the other person will react and vice versa.


Being the gary man has its uses, and many ppl have used this information for good and bad. Just look at the different ways the gray man effect can be used to favor you. When walking home after an event like an earthquake. You can use the gray many to not get bugged by most law enforcement, it can be used to get information. You can easily hide among other ppl near you. Thing you need to be aware wile traveling. Keep an eye all around you. Make the judgement call on when to get near a grp to hide amongst them. Know who to ask for information. Look for all the exits when in need. Learn when to keep an eye on the movements of the ppl around you, as in if they are running, walking, or looking for something or someone. If running, are they running away or to something. Make sure no one is following you. Always listen, even to ppl walking by. Also hearing noises from down the street and dogs barking helps let you know more of whats going on in an area.

Its mostly a timing thing and will help if your in that specific time window. Or in the case of many ppl that dont have Tacticool gear, being gray into a SHTF situation, it can help or hurt depending on who you come across and if your spotted wile hiding. Sometimes dressing as a gray man will not get you shot, depending on your actions. Wearing Tacticool gear can also have the same result. Depending on your gear will ether tell ppl your a target, someone that might provide protection, or someone to just leave alone. How you react will also tell the others if your friend or foe.

Like im pointing out. Not all disasters turn into a SHTF situation from the get go. There is a window of time where the gray man effect can be helpful. Most disasters dont have the government collapsing. Law enforcement will be around, and things go back to normal. Its only when things dont go back to normal is when you have to start to worry. By then you would of hopefully seen the warnings and have planned for them and possibly already headed out of dodge.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby KnightoftheRoc » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:30 am

Much of what you posted, Ableto, is solid, and has been the position of many of the members on ZS, posting here, and in other threads. I do think you have missed ODA's point in the other thread, but that point is based on a phenomenon that has arisen here on ZS, and not being all that old long-term a member on here, you might be unaware of the context his position is offered in.

As I said, much of what you just posted, I agree with- except this part, which is utterly FAIL:
"Being gray is useful that can help get you out of a bind as long as you play the part. If your in a bad area and you see a cop, its best to go up to the cop and ask for directions or get information about the area to help you plan your escape route."
I don't know how many emergencies you've actually been a part of, or how, or what other experience you might have. But it's been MY experience, and I'm only speaking for myself here, that contact with Law Enforcement should be avoided at all costs, unless you actually NEED the services they offer. I'm pretty confident in this position, based on my own experience, and that of others, some of whom are LEO's themselves, and/or experienced Katrina firsthand.

I'm not saying that the cops are automatically 'the enemy', at any time, merely that in an emergency, they have their hands full, and are understandably working on a heightened sense of awareness. In some cases, maybe a little TOO heightened, but they are human, and that's human nature- they want to go home to their families when it's over with, too.

That heightened sense of awareness that serves as a positive for you when using it, acts as a negative for you when someone else is using it. In the case of approaching the officer, he's not expecting "Officer, I can't find my mommy!", he's looking for trouble in any guise it may wear. If you are CCW-ing, he's going to be looking for that, and may spot your weapon. Maybe your weapon 'prints' badly. Maybe he just thinks you "look like the type" to whatever, and he's going to be predisposed to give you a bad day. Even in the best case scenario, he's busy, has his hands full, and you are just one more thing to add to the pile of crap he's dealing with. If you happen to pick one that has some prejudice against "your type", be it race, hair color, or whatever, your day may go from bad to SUCK in a real hurry- and, you could have avoided it.

Do your research beforehand- KNOW your area, know the routes, know the alternates, so you don't HAVE to ask directions, not even for the sake of appearances. The fact alone that you have made yourself 'known' to the officer means you are now no longer 'grey', because you HAVE been noticed. And, you could have avoided it.
silentpoet wrote:My first two warning shots are aimed center of mass. If that don't warn them I fire warning shots at their head until they are warned enough that I am no longer in fear for my life.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby ODA 226 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:19 am

Amen Brother!
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