If a zombie epidemic did strike,what would make them attack?

[BullOnParade]

My understanding of Rabies is the fear of water wasn't a self preservation thing for the virus, but a way to get the host to transmit easier, host need to drink, host is now terrified of water, host attacks other animals to sate that thirst, spreading the virus.

It's still creepy to think that a virus could effect one's behavior to a point of increased phobias. It's the kind of thing you only really think about in scifi.

[squinty]

I thought rabies just gave dogs a really sore sore throat, so you couldn't swallow (thus the foamy mouth - can't swallow your saliva so you drool a bunch) but the paranoia and anxiety it induces in dogs, plus a mouthfull of contagion rich saliva = lot's of infectious bites. I didn't know it actually made them afraid of water, just loathe to drink anything.

There are a lot of irl viruses, bacteria, parasites that exploit their host by affecting behavior, in one way or another.

[Sckitzo]

Rabies scares the piss out of me, ain't going to lie. Some other ones out there as well make you go, wtf?! Screw you mother nature. Cracked had an article on it, but my google fu fails me today.

But I did gank this from Wiki

The period between infection and the first flu-like symptoms is normally two to twelve weeks, but can be as long as two years. Soon after, the symptoms expand to slight or partial paralysis, cerebral dysfunction, anxiety, insomnia, confusion, agitation, abnormal behavior, paranoia, terror, hallucinations, progressing to delirium.[2][7] The production of large quantities of saliva and tears coupled with an inability to speak or swallow are typical during the later stages of the disease; this can result in hydrophobia, in which the patient has difficulty swallowing because the throat and jaw become slowly paralyzed, shows panic when presented with liquids to drink, and cannot quench his or her thirst.

So looks like I may have been wrong, I guess in this case though it's better than being right for once

[squinty]

Nah, we're both right - rabies is Fing awful.

[AUA]

"It's the PAX. The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we added to the air processors."

Gorram Reavers.

"We sure could use some GRENADES, don't you think?"

[Sckitzo]

"It's the PAX. The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we added to the air processors."

Gorram Reavers.

"We sure could use some GRENADES, don't you think?"

You, grab that kid taking a dirt nap and tie him to the front of this ship!

[Spiffums]

Alright so you always hear about zombies attacking, eating people, ripping their organs out of their body, e.t.c. But say an epidemic did strike and turned people into shambling, rotting flesh bags with limited sensibility and motor skills, why would they attack/eat humans? Why not just walk around and starve to death, or pick a different prey and become another part of the food chain. I dunno, it just doesn't add up. Maybe one of can make sense of it.

Birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim, zombies gotta shuffle around and eatcher brains. Why do sharks eat divers? Why not swim around and starve to death?
Why do tornadoes zero in on trailer parks? Why not just blow around harmlessly? It's the way of the world, man.

I'm of opinion that all those metal trailers together give off more - or + ions and draw the tornadoes.

[captnbeaver]

I always liked the more modern version where it's like the "rage" virus or something to that effect. Not saying that the classic undead aren't as fun, just that more realistic approach is a virus that causes people to go insane.

[RickOShea]

Why do tornadoes zero in on trailer parks? Why not just blow around harmlessly? It's the way of the world, man.

I'm of opinion that all those metal trailers together give off more - or + ions and draw the tornadoes.

That tornado in Twister pissed me off. How come it could rip a 20 penny nail out of a 2"x12" but couldn't get a bra and tank-top off of Helen Hunt?

[Burnt Toast]

What would make them (zeds) attack?... To get back at the Man. Undead rising against the government. Attack the career politicians, the fat corporate cats and those who thought they were "above the law" raking in their billions off our backs. We honest living folks should be ignored on the zombies' radar and go after elephants and donkeys and all those porkers on the hill who thought can run us.

[squinty]

What would make them (zeds) attack?... To get back at the Man. Undead rising against the government. Attack the career politicians, the fat corporate cats and those who thought they were "above the law" raking in their billions off our backs. We honest living folks should be ignored on the zombies' radar and go after elephants and donkeys and all those porkers on the hill who thought can run us.

[KnightoftheRoc]

OK, I'm going to try and give a serious answer on (my take of) A Silly Question (because Zombies aren't real- you did know that, right?)

There are parasites that radically alter the behavior of the host organism- there was even a write-up I read on a "Zombie Parasite" that infects ants in the rainforest- it makes the infected host climb as high in the trees as it can before dying, so it can be spread by the host being eaten. Apparently, IIRC, the predator bird that finds and eats the infected ant doesn't normally get them as a snack, because they (the ants) normally stay at ground level, or quite near it. The predator bird eventually dies, lands on the ground, and is eaten by- you guessed it- ANTS!

There are viruses that also cause noticeable behavioral changes in the infected host- Rabies has already been pointed out as a good example. It's not TOO big a stretch of the imagination to envision a virus that makes the host seek out more biological material to infect, in the case of a zombie, other human beings. It would also make sense that if the virus can thrive in a human being, then causing the host to seek another human would be in the best interests of the virus- it could reproduce in a hospitable organism. If rabbits were vulnerable to a "zombie virus", but humans were somehow naturally immune, rabbits wouldn't waste the time and effort biting humans, they'd bite other rabbits.

Suppose the zombie virus did not so much ACTUALLY re-animate the dead, but gave it's victims more of the LOOK of being "undead"- this would mean a working digestive system, so a craving for food, coupled with the virus' "mandate" to replicate in another human would give you the scenario of infected humans biting other humans. And, why does a head shot destroy the zombie? Simple- it works on everything with a brain, infected or not. I could easily see this as a movie premise involving rage zombies, like the 28 franchise offers.

Now, I'm going to delve into the quasi-religious, so bear with me- it has NOTHING to do with any religion's beliefs being valid or not, but more of a look at what religion talks about, but from a scientific point of view, even if it is just theory. So save the butt-hurt for the firearms section.

Any form of life, on Earth, anyway, has some form of energy within it, that differentiates the living version of it from the dead version. A plant, an animal, a human being- once dead, is still comprised of the same chemicals, the same cells, arranged in the same manner they were before death. If you were to remove or repair, somehow, the cause of death, you would have what should be a living organism, much like Dr. Frankenstein's 'monster'. He used massive amounts of electricity to re-energize the dead flesh, and grant his creation a semblance of life, if not life itself (depending on a variety of interpretations).
Chemical reactions can, in some cases, emit energy. Suppose a chemical combination were created that would react with the chemicals that make up animal matter, say, one of the proteins found in muscle tissues. It emits, as chance would have it, the exact sort of energy that animates what would otherwise be a collection of dead cells. There you have it- the re-animated dead form of zombies. I could also see a form of radiation, different from anything we've run into so far, being able to re-create that same "Spark of Life"- in fact, if you read the Zombie Cataclysm book in my sig line, the radiation idea in the premise of the campaign was my idea, I just didn't name it, the writer did. Now, if you consider this spark of life as being the soul, which departs at death, would you consider the re-animated dead as "soul-less", or would they have a 'new' soul, courtesy of whatever generated the energy that caused the re-animation? As to why they would want to eat other human brains, I can't imagine- even I have my limits.

[oldsoldier]

I read one of the bazillion books I have on zombie-related fare, and I recall at least one of them speaking to the reanimating virus being self-driven for survival. It the simplest terms I understand, notwithstanding reanimating dead flesh, the virus is motivated to reproduce, which is basic among all living things (procreation ensures survival of the species). As the virus is transmitted through infected fluids, and, based on the majority of the movies & books, MUST enter through compromised skin, or a natural opening (eyes, mouth, etc), the easiest way to transfer it to another host is to simply compromise the barrier of its intended host. Vis a vis, bite the bastard. Thus, the virus is transferred, mutates the NEW host, and the cycle then continues, ensuring existence of the virus.
Now, why to they continue to eat? At a guess, the virus attacks our base operating system, the medulla oblongata, if I remember correctly. This is a step above the reptiles. With limited capacity, the system takes over when biting-it eats. Thats my best guess, anyway.

Honestly, all I REALLY wanna do is hunt them...not gonna lie!!!

[Rhastus]

Knight, you have yourself one incredible sort of noggin. i've speculated about about energy source and animation and have only a basic understanding of the principles. i basically try to explain it in the same way with an obvious lack of depth.

[CiggsWar]

There was also a Zed out break from the use of red mecury in WW2, Die Glocke contained "red mercury" Farrell claims that the device was considered so important to the Nazis that they killed 60 scientists that worked on the project and buried them in a mass grave, other written accounts said the scietists went crazy and attack and killed the others eating there flesh and brains. Was also apart of the operation paper clip, and part of a UFO that crash back in 68.
a lot of changes occured after operation paper clip. The US an Canadian governments also used BIO weapons based on paper clip on civilians back in the good ole days. One town in pictular was wipe out, the people were paced in special drums and disappeared?
Could be absolute BS or absolute truth.

[KnightoftheRoc]

Knight, you have yourself one incredible sort of noggin. i've speculated about about energy source and animation and have only a basic understanding of the principles. i basically try to explain it in the same way with an obvious lack of depth.

Scary sometimes, aint it?

[jehicks87]

I thought rabies just gave dogs a really sore sore throat, so you couldn't swallow (thus the foamy mouth - can't swallow your saliva so you drool a bunch) but the paranoia and anxiety it induces in dogs, plus a mouthfull of contagion rich saliva = lot's of infectious bites. I didn't know it actually made them afraid of water, just loathe to drink anything.

There are a lot of irl viruses, bacteria, parasites that exploit their host by affecting behavior, in one way or another.

wow... I just looked up some stuff because I was always told that the "Hydrophobia" associated with rabies was the fear OTHER people had of the person/animal infected with rabies (they were afraid of the excess saliva from the person's mouth... thus, "Hydrophobia"). I never realized until just now that rabies actually caused the infected person to develop literal hydrophobia. Learn something new everyday!

[jehicks87]

Then you got the Rangers, while it falls under the Science ones, their more like..angry angry badgers, and you stole their cookie, so they want to beat you to a pulp while grunting something about "leading the way" over and over...

fixed that for you

[AUA]

OK, I'm going to try and give a serious answer on (my take of) A Silly Question (because Zombies aren't real- you did know that, right?)

There are parasites that radically alter the behavior of the host organism- there was even a write-up I read on a "Zombie Parasite" that infects ants in the rainforest- it makes the infected host climb as high in the trees as it can before dying, so it can be spread by the host being eaten. Apparently, IIRC, the predator bird that finds and eats the infected ant doesn't normally get them as a snack, because they (the ants) normally stay at ground level, or quite near it. The predator bird eventually dies, lands on the ground, and is eaten by- you guessed it- ANTS!

There are viruses that also cause noticeable behavioral changes in the infected host- Rabies has already been pointed out as a good example. It's not TOO big a stretch of the imagination to envision a virus that makes the host seek out more biological material to infect, in the case of a zombie, other human beings. It would also make sense that if the virus can thrive in a human being, then causing the host to seek another human would be in the best interests of the virus- it could reproduce in a hospitable organism. If rabbits were vulnerable to a "zombie virus", but humans were somehow naturally immune, rabbits wouldn't waste the time and effort biting humans, they'd bite other rabbits.

Suppose the zombie virus did not so much ACTUALLY re-animate the dead, but gave it's victims more of the LOOK of being "undead"- this would mean a working digestive system, so a craving for food, coupled with the virus' "mandate" to replicate in another human would give you the scenario of infected humans biting other humans. And, why does a head shot destroy the zombie? Simple- it works on everything with a brain, infected or not. I could easily see this as a movie premise involving rage zombies, like the 28 franchise offers.

Now, I'm going to delve into the quasi-religious, so bear with me- it has NOTHING to do with any religion's beliefs being valid or not, but more of a look at what religion talks about, but from a scientific point of view, even if it is just theory. So save the butt-hurt for the firearms section.

Any form of life, on Earth, anyway, has some form of energy within it, that differentiates the living version of it from the dead version. A plant, an animal, a human being- once dead, is still comprised of the same chemicals, the same cells, arranged in the same manner they were before death. If you were to remove or repair, somehow, the cause of death, you would have what should be a living organism, much like Dr. Frankenstein's 'monster'. He used massive amounts of electricity to re-energize the dead flesh, and grant his creation a semblance of life, if not life itself (depending on a variety of interpretations).
Chemical reactions can, in some cases, emit energy. Suppose a chemical combination were created that would react with the chemicals that make up animal matter, say, one of the proteins found in muscle tissues. It emits, as chance would have it, the exact sort of energy that animates what would otherwise be a collection of dead cells. There you have it- the re-animated dead form of zombies. I could also see a form of radiation, different from anything we've run into so far, being able to re-create that same "Spark of Life"- in fact, if you read the Zombie Cataclysm book in my sig line, the radiation idea in the premise of the campaign was my idea, I just didn't name it, the writer did. Now, if you consider this spark of life as being the soul, which departs at death, would you consider the re-animated dead as "soul-less", or would they have a 'new' soul, courtesy of whatever generated the energy that caused the re-animation? As to why they would want to eat other human brains, I can't imagine- even I have my limits.

Well, I mean, IMO, I see parasites as having this life cycle (assuming that the parasite is non-communicable except by direct contact):

Biological reservoir > Affected organism > Target Organism > Biological reservoir

A parasite aims to use its target host's facilities to survive, and causing negative symptoms is generally disadvantageous to that end; this is why fungal 'zombie ants' are classified as 'parasitoid' instead of 'parasite' (a parasite leeches nutrients in such a way that they can survive indefinitely, whereas a 'parasitoid' usually kills the host akin to a virus with the intent of infecting more hosts).

When the 'ant-to-bird' parasite infects birds, it stops presenting behavioral symptoms and reverts back to its usual, nutrient-leeching state. This is because it had always intended to infect an organism that is viable enough for that end (as opposed to ants; in the case of snails, they actually cyst the parasite and leave them on grass, which then leads to infection of livestock that are viable to the parasite).

Most viruses already operate under the pretense of a 'parasitoid'; after all, they do use the facilities of the host, and sometimes they do so lethally (Ebola, etc). I would consider any infection with >50% lethality to be a threat on par with zombieism, because of how effective a viral 'parasitoid' behavior is (there's a reason why highly infective and lethal viruses attack the respiratory system; they burn through hosts so fast that they need equally fast/effective transmission).

I would consider something like a "hemophilic rabies" to be the most likely method of zombieism. The behavioral change is not that extensive (you switch 'fear' to 'hunger/lust', and the substance from 'water' to 'blood', both of which are instinctively recognized, and the former are cognitively linked anyway), and assuming that this 'hemophilia' is not lethal (i.e does not eventually kill the host directly), then we could have an all-out zombie apocalypse.

Not only would it alter behavior short-term, but I venture that if you gave it enough time, the bloodlust would consume the host. It'd be like being on the brink of starvation and never being satisfied (or being granted the sweet release of death), or being on the brink of climax and never attaining it. It'd challenge the very things that make you human.

It could also lead to zombie-vs-zombie cannibalism in either the short or long term, depending on how cognition is specifically affected (i.e is it about any 'fresh' blood, or 'untainted' blood, how far out there is the host's mind at a given time, etc).

The worst part would be that problem-solving/coordination/communication might not be impacted at all. It's possible that certain people with self-discipline but with compromised mental states could infiltrate a survivor group and then eventually kill/infect them strategically (akin to how a serial killer's brain is wired).

[swordofthebreeze]

Don't forget about the prion diseases, similar to mad cow disease. Something like this causing the zombie epidemic could explain the brain cravings. These diseases generally eat away at the brain, making it look like swiss cheese, and tend to cause the host to go completely bat-shit insane! If your brain is eroded like a sponge, it's easy enough to see why the victims may crave grey matter. Almost like the disease driving the host to consume more brain for it to feed on.

Just one of many possibilities!

[squinty]

WRT the contagion creating the "appearance" of being undead - not far fetched at all. Lot's of diseases can cause lesions, sores, infections, peripheral circulatory impairments that would cause extremities to get necrotic or gangrenous.

One difference, iirc, between "28 Days Later" and "28 Weeks Later" was that 'the Infected' seemed to be having some ebola - like symptoms, where they hemorrhaged and spat up blood a lot. They seemed almost as happy to barf blood on you as to bite you.

[JTNieman]

OK, I'm going to try and give a serious answer on (my take of) A Silly Question (because Zombies aren't real- you did know that, right?)

THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU HANGING AROUND IN THE ZOMBIE BIOLOGY SECTIONS?

[engr-rn]

Alright so you always hear about zombies attacking, eating people, ripping their organs out of their body, e.t.c. But say an epidemic did strike and turned people into shambling, rotting flesh bags with limited sensibility and motor skills, why would they attack/eat humans? Why not just walk around and starve to death, or pick a different prey and become another part of the food chain. I dunno, it just doesn't add up. Maybe one of can make sense of it.

I know it was a parody, but I think as far as movies go Return of the Living Dead gave the most realistic explanation of this. In the movie the characters had captured and tied up a zombie who could speak. One of the main characters asked the zombie "why do you eat people" the zombie replied that they ate "brains only" the zombie described life as a zombie as a state of constant pain stating " I can feel myself rot" then tells us "Brains makes the pain go away for awhile" Some chemical found in the brain tissue was apparently having an analgesic effect similar to morphine or another opiod to this creature.

Back to reality. I recently attended a conference where a psychologist presented research showing that violent criminals tend to have lower than normal levels of brain chemicals like serotonin, dopamine, and cortisol. Perhaps Zombies are suffering from a particularly severe shortage (would also explain their compulsively violent behavior) and consuming the body parts of other humans gives them easy access to the serotonin and other chemicals that they crave.

Bottom line..the zombie is a junkie and it's drug of choice is stored in the blood and tissues of all of us living people.


Tina

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Alright so you always hear about zombies attacking, eating people, ripping their organs out of their body, e.t.c. But say an epidemic did strike and turned people into shambling, rotting flesh bags with limited sensibility and motor skills, why would they attack/eat humans? Why not just walk around and starve to death, or pick a different prey and become another part of the food chain. I dunno, it just doesn't add up. Maybe one of can make sense of it.

I know it was a parody, but I think as far as movies go Return of the Living Dead gave the most realistic explanation of this. In the movie the characters had captured and tied up a zombie who could speak. One of the main characters asked the zombie "why do you eat people" the zombie replied that they ate "brains only" the zombie described life as a zombie as a state of constant pain stating " I can feel myself rot" then tells us "Brains makes the pain go away for awhile" Some chemical found in the brain tissue was apparently having an analgesic effect similar to morphine or another opiod to this creature.

Back to reality. I recently attended a conference where a psychologist presented research showing that violent criminals tend to have lower than normal levels of brain chemicals like serotonin, dopamine, and cortisol. Perhaps Zombies are suffering from a particularly severe shortage (would also explain their compulsively violent behavior) and consuming the body parts of other humans gives them easy access to the serotonin and other chemicals that they crave.

Bottom line..the zombie is a junkie and it's drug of choice is stored in the blood and tissues of all of us.


Tina

Classic Nature vs. Nurture. However, top men at ZS labs in Raccoon City have determined that Zombies are most definitely pure evil by all counts.