How Much Ammo Can A Human Being Carry

[Biggin]

Furpiles is gone... but his legacy lives on....


*pours out a 40oz*

[tarman42]

Med supplies, say 4 CAT tourniquets, 2 Israeli dressings. Say 1/2lb.

one touniquet for each limb?

[FUBAR Tier 1]

When I go out to the field I carry 14, 30 rnd 5.56 mags, on my chest rig, and thats the amount most guys carry.

[stressrelief 28.5]

I always wanted to get the crank for the 10/22 but never could bring myself to do it.

Fastfire.biz has them and for the fun of it buy one.

[Biggin]

Holy Necro'd furpiles thread, batman.

[Jeriah]

As long as this thread is still around, I'll update:

I own 11 quality rifle magazines and my rig is set up to carry that many. I'm going to see if I can manage 15 (I have some cheap crappy mags I can use mostly to feel the weight) so we'll see how that goes. I think if I need more ammo than that, it can live in boxes in my buttpack with a LULA.

[AKFTW]

I carry 4 30rd steel mags in the chest rig and 1 in the rifle, with an extra 90 or more rounds on stripper clips in the hydration pack. I don't want to be carrying more than 8lbs of ammo on my front in a rig with unpadded straps, and I'm not looking to get into a drawn-out firefight. Mobility is firepower.

[rmherbert]

i think it boils down to how many in the group? solo or with a support team (non com family members to schlep food and water) 100% on foot or with mech (car/truck/quad) support. terrain? weather? urban? wilderness? bug in/hunting/perimeter defense patrol?
bug out/inch? too many variables for a simple answer.

[KnightoftheRoc]

Since this thread seems to be one of the undead itself- and no, the irony of it is not lost on me- I'll post a couple of questions of my own, and they even relate to the topic:

Assuming AR or AK 30rnd mags, how many of them can you fit into the 3 pocket shingles I see advertised? I'm not sure if it's the camo design or the crappy photos throwing me off, but I can't tell if they hold two, or if you could fit three in there. I'm talking per pocket here, obviously, the three pockets means a minimum of three mags fitting in there.

Also, for those who have tried both- do you see any advantage to the triple shingle over three individual mag carriers? Disadvantages? I'm eagerly awaiting a MOLLE vest I ordered, and I'm trying to think ahead a bit on what I'm going to be putting on it- since finances are an issue, I'd rather not have to purchase items to experiment with any more than absolutely necessary.

Sticking to the MOLLE layout, what's the consensus on a layer of pistol mags on the front of a shingle? Good idea, or bad? I don't have a pistol yet, but it's something I was thinking about.

[CDAT]

Last time I was a trigger puller for the Army my kit started with 14 rifle mags and 5 pistol mags, I do not remember what it ended at but would guess (16-18) not that much more as weight was becoming a issue. My kit for the SRT (civilian job) had 10 rifle mags, 8 pistol mags, and 5 shotgun shells. They Army kit with my ruck and all I could go abut any place as long as the ammo lasted but could not go fast and the ammo did not last as long as you would think in a fire fight. The civilian kit is set up for a more quick in and out there is no ruck to go with it and no long term support (ie food and stuff). I am guessing as I have never weighed them that the SRT kit is at or maybe just a little light of the 1/3, the Army kit I would guess is a good bit over 1/2.

[Murph]

Aside from Active Duty Military, where are you people going with this much ammo? A slow walk from the car to the range?

How many of you have walked a mile or more carrying around that much stuff?

[smokinbunta]

for me personally with my current firearms and (whenever this kinda topic comes up i like to imagine that things r gonna happen tomorrow and i will be stuck with going with what i have RIGHT THEN) , and worse case scenario(i am on foot) i keep 50rnds of my .40 in the BOB + the 3/ 14rd mags loaded at all times will give me 92rnds. then my shot gun that holds 4+1 then i have a 25rnds belt+a 25rnds box in the BOB = 55rnds. i have no problem humping this lttle ammo..

i know this is like nothing... but like i said, i plan for worse case scenario. cause best case scenario most likely won't be on my side.

eventually id like to switch my set up with a 9mm and a AR which will help cut weight!

[lci115lewis]

Just to show you can't keep a dead thread down...

As many people have said it depends on the circumstances. The most I have ever carried at once was 2 50 cal ammo cans with 500 rounds of .308 in strippers and bandoleers in each and another 8-10 bandoleers so 1400 or so rounds. This was just moving it about 50 yards from my storage shed to my gun room. (well if you want to know the most ROUNDS I have carried, I think the record there is 8 bricks of .22, but that was limited by the fact that I was just carrying the loose bricks on the crook of my arm, needing one hand free to open the door.)

So if you were talking about just transferring ammo from one position to another a person could move quite a bit on each trip, although in a situation like that a wagon or gardening cart would vastly increase that figure. When I moved the ammo from the gun room to the shed in the first place I used a red wagon, and moved something like 4,500 rounds of 308 and similar sized rifle rounds in a single trip.

If you are talking about a fighting load, I think going by historical records you get a low of 50 rounds of .58 muzzle loader cartridges in the Civil War (40 in the cartridge box and another packet of 10 in a pocket) to 250 or so rifle rounds in WW1 and WW2 (100 in bandoleers and roughly 150 in the ammo pouches). That is with only enough other gear to keep the soldier minimally functional for 24 hours, so for a Tommy of the era a can of bully beef, some army biscuits, 2 quarts of water, mess kit, a mug, probably some tea and the fixings for a cuppa, a ground sheet, rifle, bayonet, pocket knife, fork, spoon, some boiled sweets, helmet, handkerchief, etc. In other words a very minimal load as far as long term survival goes. Compare this to the assault order for paratroopers or commandos where they were expected to be separated from resupply for days at a time, then you would be talking about adding an 80 lb rucksack with ammo and supplies to sustain them for 3-4 days beyond what fighting order would. Not much up on the various load outs for current military units for specific functions, but I think most military personnel would agree it is unusual to feel that you carried too much ammo once a firefight has started, and that you could not ditch too much weight on a forced march with food and beds waiting at the end.

Rob

[gravediggerfour]

I miss Furpiles

[Regular Guy]

I miss Furpiles

Don't feel bad, so do I.

[sigboy40]

Just to show you can't keep a dead thread down...



If you are talking about a fighting load, I think going by historical records you get a low of 50 rounds of .58 muzzle loader cartridges in the Civil War (40 in the cartridge box and another packet of 10 in a pocket) to 250 or so rifle rounds in WW1 and WW2 (100 in bandoleers and roughly 150 in the ammo pouches). That is with only enough other gear to keep the soldier minimally functional for 24 hours, so for a Tommy of the era a can of bully beef, some army biscuits, 2 quarts of water, mess kit, a mug, probably some tea and the fixings for a cuppa, a ground sheet, rifle, bayonet, pocket knife, fork, spoon, some boiled sweets, helmet, handkerchief, etc. In other words a very minimal load as far as long term survival goes. Compare this to the assault order for paratroopers or commandos where they were expected to be separated from resupply for days at a time, then you would be talking about adding an 80 lb rucksack with ammo and supplies to sustain them for 3-4 days beyond what fighting order would. Not much up on the various load outs for current military units for specific functions, but I think most military personnel would agree it is unusual to feel that you carried too much ammo once a firefight has started, and that you could not ditch too much weight on a forced march with food and beds waiting at the end.

Rob

Just to add fuel to the fire, they did not jump with as much as you think.
Source: http://www.101airborneww2.com/equipment.html

Major H.W. Hannah, the Regimental S-3 officer of the 506th PIR during Normandy, dug-up an old document with the following orders. Although the loads almost certainly changed on the Market-Garden drop, this is of interest to Normandy fans.

Tentative Plan of Basic Ammunition Loads
MI- 30-06 rifle: Rounds per weapon: 136, jumped on individual. (128 in Air Corps pockets, 4 clips per pocket), 1-8 rnd. clip in rifle, hand, or jumpsuit pocket (55% ball, 40% AP, 5% tracer. Rifle belt and one bandolier may be used in lieu of the above. 60 Riflemen per company will jump with 1 belt of LMG ammunition (250 rounds); this may be used in M-1 rifles if the situation warrants. note from webmaster:-the "Air Corps pockets" were rectangular belt pouches, with a pointed flap secured by a press-a-dot snap. These were discontinued in the 101st after Normandy. The military term "ball" ammo means a lead projectile, completely covered with a copper jacket.

Carbine: Rounds per weapon: 175, jumped on individual. 160 in 2 Air Corps pockets (2 clips and one box per pocket), 15 in hand (1 clip) or jumpsuit pocket (100% ball).

Thompson SMG: Rounds per weapon:300, Jumped on individual. 14 (20 rnd) clips in jump suit pockets or M6 carrying bag, 1 clip in gun, hand, or jumpsuit pocket.

Pistol M1911A1: Rounds per weapon: 21, jumped on individual. 2 clips in pouch, one clip in pistol (100% ball, for pistol and TSMG).

'03 Rifle: Rounds per weapon: 145, jumped on individual. 140 in four Air Corps pockets (7 clips per pocket), 1 5 rnd. clip in rifle, hand, or jumpsuit pocket. The '03 rifle may not be used if launcher for M-1 rifle is issued. It is now a superimposed weapon and if jumped will have to supplant the primary weapon of the man jumping it.

'03 Grenades: 10, jumped on individual 5 in each of 2 M6 carrying bags (6 fragmentation, 4 A.T.)

Hand Grenades: 4, Jumped on individual. 4 Grenades in jumpsuit pockets (if M6 carrying bag is used, 6 can be carried.)

Rocket Launcher: Rounds per weapon: 12, to be jumped on individual. l round per man; collected and carried, 6 in each of 2 Infantry packs collected by crew after jump. The folding launcher may be issued, and can be jumped. Launchers may be dropped in bundles: if so, ammunition will be dropped in bundle.

60mm mortar: Rounds per weapon: 80, each mortar jumped on 3 men. 14 riflemen jump with 1 round each. 3 mortar squad members jump with 4 each in M6 bag; 54 dropped in bundles and carried in cart (4 carts per company).

81mm mortar: Rounds per weapon: 54, dropped in bundle;carried by 3 men. 30 rounds in cart, plus 6 rounds on each of 4 men, or 5 rounds on 4 men and 4 rounds on 1. (cart and all rounds dropped in bundle). 80% H.E. light, 20% White Phosphorus.

LMG Browning M1919-A4: rounds per weapon: 3250, jumped on 2 individuals. In LMG platoon, 2,000 rounds dropped in bundle and carried on 81mm mortar cart, or by S-4. 1,250 rounds jumped on men. (80% A.P. and 20% tracer). A.P.=Armor-Piercing (steel cored projectile with copper jacket). 60 riflemen in each company jump with 1 belt of LMG ammunition, as indicated in M-1 rifle listing.

Reserve LMG: rounds per weapon: 6,250, dropped in bundle

The memo concludes;"These ammunition loads are considered to be all that can be carried away from field, regardless of whether machine-guns, 60mm mortars, rocket launchers, or '03 rifles are jumped on the individual or dropped in equipment bundles."

Please note the last line "These ammunition loads are considered to be all that can be carried away from field, regardless of whether machine-guns, 60mm mortars, rocket launchers, or '03 rifles are jumped on the individual or dropped in equipment bundles."

Sure, they carried a lot of Machine Gun ammo, and each man carried a lot of grenades but notice that there was not a lot of rile ammo, 136 rounds per rifleman. Also notice tha most of the heavy weapons were dropped on a cart and wheeled off of the LZ.

[KnightoftheRoc]

I miss Furpiles

Don't feel bad, so do I.

You guys should consider buying better optics, or getting more trigger time in at the range, then.

[Regular Guy]

I miss Furpiles

Don't feel bad, so do I.

You guys should consider buying better optics, or getting more trigger time in at the range, then.

nothing can replace the piles. Not even a trijicon.

[lci115lewis]

Sure, they carried a lot of Machine Gun ammo, and each man carried a lot of grenades but notice that there was not a lot of rile ammo, 136 rounds per rifleman. Also notice tha most of the heavy weapons were dropped on a cart and wheeled off of the LZ.

Yes, but that is still a lot of ammo compared to the official early war British rifleman's load of 2 BREN magazines, a 50 round bandoleer (officially for reloading empty BREN mags as the squads LMG used them up) and 2 grenades, plus the 10 rounds in the rifle for a total of 124 rounds. By 1944 that went up to 224 rounds, compared to the average US airborne rifleman carrying 386 rounds (250 round belt plus personal ammo) . No I am not missing the point that only 60 men per company carried a belt, but at that same time in a British infantry company of 127 men, you had only 107 privates, of which 32 were on support weapons (BREN guns, 2 inch mortars, PIATs) or the loaders for those weapons, and another 9 were grenadiers who carried 4 more grenades and less ammo, so 66 riflemen. British Infantry companies were smaller than US, but there were 4 per battalion instead of 3 and the heavier support weapons (3 inch mortars and anti-tank guns) were in a support company with the vehicles instead of being in with the rifle companies (60 mm mortars and 1919-a4 MMG for US airborne).

Rob

[CDAT]

In 03 when I was deployed I carried 14 30rd mags for my M16A4, and 3 15rd mags for my M9, that was enough for most firefights. My current setup is for 16 30rd mags for my M4 or 9 20rds for the team M14 if I have it, and 5 30 rd mags for my M9. When home as a police officer my normal set up is just 3 12+1 (37 rds total) for my Sig, my tactical gear is set up for 10 30rd mags for M4, 6 15rd mags for G22 and 5 12 gauge for Serbo.

[gravediggerfour]

How the fuck do you carry 16 mags???

Pics or it did not happen.

[mantis]

How the fuck do you carry 16 mags???

Pics or it did not happen.

Not only how but why? I can see that in a combat situation but not here at home - even in the face of a PAW/EPTWAWKI! Even with 5.56 NATO, that's got to weigh a ton.

[Biggin]

The legend that is furpiles....


GD4, I'm betting it didn't happen.

[gravediggerfour]

the only thing I can think of is 5 triple mag pouches and one in the weapon,but damn at the freakin profile of rig your carrying it all on.

If I'm running my plate carrier and belt I can run 14 mags plus a double in the weapon equals 16 and in my mind thats pushing it. Vehicle ops is out of the question with a topped off belt so drop 3 of the mags at least of the belt.

but yet again pics or it didnt happen.