Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby Wildeman_13 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:16 pm

NoAmnesty wrote:This is a good site, for some general information on conceal carry.

http://apps.carryconcealed.net/legal/index.php

The required course I had to take, was about 8 hours. Everyone left with their certificates that day, to go to their local Sheriff's Office, to obtain the permit. We have had such a demand in our area, over the last 2 years, our Sheriff's Office has started a mass processing workshop, twice a week. Then it took about 4-6 weeks to receive our permits. cost is $90 for 5 years
The one thing I wish we could do, is purchase hand guns out of state, with our CCP. Hell, we've been checked out already!

There is some talk over at Calguns.net about just this thing. There is a lawsuit coming up that points out how stupid it is that you can go buy a long gun out of state, but not a handgun. Especially for DC residents who HAVE to buy out of "state" since there are no gun stores in DC.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby Kutter_0311 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:54 pm

prebans wrote:So, let's speak to this DICE. No flooding, no massive nuclear attack, no snowstorm... It's you and your friends or family out for a public holiday on public grounds. What's your plan in case something small to mid-scale like this happens?
Phoenix David wrote:"This just goes to show that the police can not protect you and that it is up to you to protect yourself."

Really, this is how it's always been in WI as a whole, and isn't limited to Milwaukee.

Granted, a lot of the population like to ignore it. Ignorance is bliss.

Any jurisdiction you're in in WI, the cops are a long way off, unless they are running radar or pulling you over.

I have always kept the 4D Maglite next to my seat in the car, and I usually stopped for someone broken down well before the cops did.

My response, as I'm responsible for 3 low-mobility little people and a rage-a-holic former Derby Girl, is as follows:

1) Gain fire/force superiority (Whatever I can do to beat the mob off us so we can...

2) Maneuver to cover (any structure that covers my flank so I don't have to cover so much perimeter)

3) Notify LE, advise them of attack, give dispatch SALUTE report...

S - Size(estimate in 5 or 10 person increments)

A - Activity(attacking people? burning cars? Etc)

L - LOCATION!

U - Uniform(descriptors of perp group)

T - Time(how long ago this started)

E - Equipment(guns? knives? molotov cocktails?)

4)Hold position near cover, unless we have the chance to get to better cover.

Try not to get caught in the open!!!
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby Valarius » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:58 am

Then I moved back to Wisconsin. For a while, I still did what I did in Arizona. More importantly, I still had the mindset. Situational awareness. Shot weekly (no convenient desert to drive into for shooting). I was no billy badass and couldn't hack it in the military, yet taking care of myself and friends around me was no issue. But that all started going away- and it went away so slowly that I didn't notice. Looking back to 2007 (when I left AZ and returned to WI), I can slowly see all of the training, practice, and mindset going out the window.

That's why I'm really bothered by this. Were that me, with or without friends, I wouldn't have a tenth of the skills and awareness that I had just a few short years ago.


Hey, the important thing is that you were lucky enough to miss the fighting and if you were half-buzzed, you probably would have gotten your ass kicked had you interfered.

Good general rule of thumb: holidays are when lots of people get drunk and start stupid crap.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby gridley » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:39 am

prebans wrote:
The MPD has mobile cameras that may be used next 4th of July, but stated that he doesn’t want to know what goes on in the park most of the time.

Emphasis is my own.

Chief Flynn doesn't want to know what goes on in the park most of the time??!


prebans, I agree that this is a very disturbing set of responses, and some of them are just outrageous. On this one, however, I'd like to play devil's advocate: do you WANT cameras watching you all the time you're in public? Recording where you go, what you do, and who you are with? The camera's can't be actively monitored - that just takes cops off the streets - so they won't be much good at preventing crime. The tapes will have to be kept for a while, since many crimes aren't discovered or reported immediately. Putting up a permanent network of cameras would be expensive in any jurisdiction, which again reduces the budget of the law enforcement agency in question for boots on the street. They'll be shared with any other law enforcement agency, and while I'm not an expert AFAIK the other agency won't need a warrant since activity in a public place has no "expectation of privacy." Sure, 'the innocent have nothing to fear.' As a former member of public safety, I'll note it is actually pretty hard to be 100% in compliance with the law 100% of the time.

OK, I've probably gone a bit overboard and OT here, and as before I'll note that most of the answers at the meeting were unacceptable.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby prebans » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:18 pm

gridley wrote:
prebans wrote:
The MPD has mobile cameras that may be used next 4th of July, but stated that he doesn’t want to know what goes on in the park most of the time.

Emphasis is my own.

Chief Flynn doesn't want to know what goes on in the park most of the time??!


prebans, I agree that this is a very disturbing set of responses, and some of them are just outrageous. On this one, however, I'd like to play devil's advocate: do you WANT cameras watching you all the time you're in public? Recording where you go, what you do, and who you are with? The camera's can't be actively monitored - that just takes cops off the streets - so they won't be much good at preventing crime. The tapes will have to be kept for a while, since many crimes aren't discovered or reported immediately. Putting up a permanent network of cameras would be expensive in any jurisdiction, which again reduces the budget of the law enforcement agency in question for boots on the street. They'll be shared with any other law enforcement agency, and while I'm not an expert AFAIK the other agency won't need a warrant since activity in a public place has no "expectation of privacy." Sure, 'the innocent have nothing to fear.' As a former member of public safety, I'll note it is actually pretty hard to be 100% in compliance with the law 100% of the time.

OK, I've probably gone a bit overboard and OT here, and as before I'll note that most of the answers at the meeting were unacceptable.


Gridley, my comments on this response are based off of the underlined portion-- but stated that he doesn’t want to know what goes on in the park most of the time. Taken in hand with some of the other comments (Chief Flynn stated that he is not a fan of curfew laws because most people out after curfew aren’t involved in criminal behavior - At the time of an incident, police are unlikely to take 19 different statements about the same crime. - On July 4, kids were throwing bottles in the park. Police were present but did not stop them. - Chief Flynn stated that he does not refuse to work with the Sherriff, but they do have different jurisdictions. - Meanwhile, police were short with the victims and said they were looking for evidence only. They stated they would not escort victims to their homes, but only to the boundary of the park. Victims then had to walk in the direction their assailants had last been seen. Victims did not have an opportunity to give statements to the police (with the exception of the two who went to the ER), nor did the police take their names to contact them in the future. The victims felt that they were at fault.), it seems that there is a pattern showing a lack of concern for the residents by the Chief.

I wasn't trying to speak to the cameras- only to the Chief's attitude toward the citizens and his job as top cop.

Mike
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby prebans » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:19 pm

Valarius wrote:
Then I moved back to Wisconsin. For a while, I still did what I did in Arizona. More importantly, I still had the mindset. Situational awareness. Shot weekly (no convenient desert to drive into for shooting). I was no billy badass and couldn't hack it in the military, yet taking care of myself and friends around me was no issue. But that all started going away- and it went away so slowly that I didn't notice. Looking back to 2007 (when I left AZ and returned to WI), I can slowly see all of the training, practice, and mindset going out the window.

That's why I'm really bothered by this. Were that me, with or without friends, I wouldn't have a tenth of the skills and awareness that I had just a few short years ago.


Hey, the important thing is that you were lucky enough to miss the fighting and if you were half-buzzed, you probably would have gotten your ass kicked had you interfered.

Good general rule of thumb: holidays are when lots of people get drunk and start stupid crap.


I would have gotten my ass kicked, period!

Mike
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby prebans » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:38 pm

A fellow ZS'er and good friend of mine sent me a link to a site discussing how to defend from mobs. The site is external to ZS and is definitely not ZS compliant. I'm going to do some selective editing and repost from that other site. Stuff that has been edited or altered for compliance will be underlined and capitalized.

I do not take credit for this article and only edited as described above for purposes of re-posting here. Credit for the article must go to Gabe Suarez, who originally wrote it on 06/26/2011 on his Warrior Talk News blog. Feel free to Google, but be advised that it is outside of ZS and is definitely NOT ZS rules compliant. (You've been warned- don't search if you feel that you may be offended by what Mr. Suarez has to say.)

Finally, I'm also not recommending or not recommending Mr. Suarez or any of his training and ideas. This is simply being passed along because it's very timely and related to the topic at hand.

FWIW,

Mike

-----

The Flash Mob Attack - How To Defend?

COLUMBIA, SC (WIS) - All eight suspects are in custody after a brutal attack in Five Points early Monday morning which left the teenage victim in critical condition, according to Columbia police.

CHICAGO, IL (WLS) -- The recent series of mob-style attacks on Chicago's Near North Side mark the first major hurdles facing Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Chicago's new police superintendent Garry McCarthy. The latest attack happened Tuesday night. A witness tells WGN 15-20 teens beat and robbed two people at Chicago and Wabash

AKRON, OH -- Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.

NO. VIRGINIA -- Three people were beaten by mobs in Northern Virginia in two separate incidents that occurred within five minutes of each other on Saturday night, authorities said.

These events have consumed the discussion at most self-defense focused websites in the last few weeks. Accompanying the discussion is the usual hand wringing regarding what to do if one is beset by a gang of thugs bent on your destruction. Well, I have my views on this which will no doubt shock the senses of SOME PEOPLE.

First, this was not some group of young teenaged honor students. In all cases it was a group of urban thugs. Second, they were not there to practice for their debate CONCERNING PROPER COOKING METHODS FOR TROUT. Third, they understand only one thing...violence. So understand who they are and be ready to speak their language.

1). Don't go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things. Simple but often ignored. Listen, we do not live in a fair world where everyone respects everyone else. Nor where everyone gets along. You may in fact be totally color-blind in a socio-ethnic sort of way, but not everyone is. So even if your -ENTIRELY REDACTED- professor thinks it is a cool thing to take a stroll at midnight through INTERESTING partS of town (-ENTIRELY REDACTED-), it is still a stupid idea.

2). Always have a method to defend yourself. Even if it is not socially acceptable, -ENTIRELY REDACTED-, having some sort of weapon is essential. Right about now, some PEOPLE are screaming -ENTIRELY REDACTED-. Well, go and google these stories. Look at the faces of the victims...specially the one on life support right now. Put yourself in their shoes. Your choice is to arm yourself -ENTIRELY REDACTED-, or to take the raping, beating and robbery? What would you choose?

3). Avoid if you can. If you are standing around and see a group of twenty young urban thugs about two blocks away yelling, "kill whitey", and looking at your reflection in the store window, realize that you have not been in the sun in a while, here is my advice - "RUN". If it looks like trouble, it probably is. The gang is not there to debate the effects of WHATEVER WAS DISCUSSED ON NPR with you.

4). If you cannot avoid, attack...brutally and viciously. This is not the time to worry about some goofball fear monger's articles about being sued, nor about anything of the sort. It is time to deploy your weapons and attack the leaders. Listen folks, there is disparity of force by the sheer number against you and the knowledge you have based on these prior flash mob events.

If you have limited yourself by the rules and only have a knife, be certain you know how to use it. Make it big enough that it will cause extreme pain and bleeding when you stab the attacker. This is not the place for a -ENTIRELY REDACTED- tomato peeler that is two inches or less. You need a fixed or folding knife that is at least 4 inches long.

When the time comes, do not flash the knife like you are some crocodile dundee type guy ("that's not a knife"). Stab the first man deep and hard in his face and move to the next guy and repeat the exercise. Do the same to anyone within reach. When their buddies reel back, screaming in horror and pain, holding their bloodied faces with eyeballs hanging out, it will create hesitation. Use that time to disengage.

If you have a pistol, please make sure it is a modern high capacity weapon with a couple of spare magazines in your belt. The Suarez International company gun, a Glock 17 with three magazines, yields a sum total of 52 rounds. Figure three rounds per man, and you can reduce an angry mob of panga swinging killers into a fleeing group of bloodied bad guys. Draw it and yell, "Get The F*** Back!" If they do, run away. If they do not, shoot the first man in the face. The rest will take care of itself.

It really is very simple. Might you get into trouble? Sure, but being in jail because you stabbed three guys on the street is far better than being in the hospital having holes drilled into your head to relieve the pressure on your brain while the female members of your party are getting HIV exams in the next room. The only way to defeat brutality is with extreme and greater brutality.

Keep that in mind, arm yourself properly and if it comes, be brutal.

-----
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby ei8htx » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:27 pm

:lol: Idk which was funnier, the original or your edit.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby gridley » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:59 am

prebans wrote:I wasn't trying to speak to the cameras- only to the Chief's attitude toward the citizens and his job as top cop.

Mike


Fair point. I note the distinction, and I agree that the attitudes of the Chief/Mayor were unacceptable.

Oh, and prebans? That was hilarious.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby prebans » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:30 pm

I'm glad my edit entertained, but I didn't see the original as funny..?

Let's talk turkey. Good advice? Bad advice? A mix?

Mike
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby RickOShea » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:21 pm

prebans wrote:I'm glad my edit entertained, but I didn't see the original as funny..?

Let's talk turkey. Good advice? Bad advice? A mix?

Mike

Didn't Col. Cooper say something about "Violence begets violence... And I should certainly hope so!!!".

(Or was it "And WE should certainly hope so!!!") :wink:
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby Liff » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:00 pm

prebans wrote:Let's talk turkey. Good advice? Bad advice? A mix?


These "flash mobs" sound a lot like "getting jumped" when I was a kid. Noun instead of a verb. Similar, but not the same.

If you ever are being jumped, the only rule out there is: Do Not Go Down. As in no matter what, do not go to the ground for any reason. When you are on the ground is when the hangers-on start to kick you and throw objects at you. In no way am I proud to say this, but I have been on both sides of a jumping. Do not go down. I had a friend in high school that went down, he had his jaw wired shut for months. Don't do it.

The biggest difference I can see with this newest incarnation is that instead of singling out one person, a group of people are "grouped out" and this is why it scares so many people as much as it does. If you have ever been in a lot of fights, you have lost a few as well. I am not afraid of getting my butt kicked as it has happened a lot. However, protecting my GF is a different story. And for those of you with kids, I can only imagine what is going through your heads.

Lions hunt in groups. Just about all group type predators hunt in groups. This is nothing new. When you are doing your hand to hand fighting, you need to spar with more than one person. Remember the phrase, "threat scan 360"? You should have already have skills that reinforce the idea that the predators hunt in groups. So from that perspective, this is nothing new. One group of people outnumber and jump a different group of people. Same thing the classes and aar's have been telling us for years.

And normally, there is an instigator. Focus your efforts there, give the crowd a moment to respond, either a new instigator steps forward, the crowd disperses, or there is a standoff. Judgement call from there.

So predators hunt in groups and go for the weakest ones first. BFD. That has been happening for at least the last 6,000 years. That guy is selling fear with his blog. Newspapers are selling fear with the invention of a "flash mob". Fear and sex sells (also for at least 6,000 years). I have tried to stay out of this thread because I am not such a believer that this is something new.

Don't go down, focus on the leader. And don't appear to be the softest target.

ETA: Random. Random violence scares better than targeted deliberate violence. But it is all fear none the less. Slightly ot: What drove the gun craze of '08?
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby NoAm » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:35 am

Another incident in Milwaukee, this time at the State Fair.

"The thing that irritated me, the State Fair Police, the State Police, were down by the Pettit entrance to get in there," said Eric. "There was probably 5 or 6 officers down there. That's where all these kids came from. They came out of the Midway, across the front of the Pettit. They were still filing out of there. The State Fair Police, they knew this was going on. They knew these kids were beating these guys in between that exit and Schlinger at the next gate."

I can't believe they didn't have more LEO's there, especially after the events LAST MONTH!
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby Nth90 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:29 am

0
Last edited by Nth90 on Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby NoAm » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:32 am

It seems like a horribly scarey trend happening here!
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby Kutter_0311 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:10 am

Nth90 wrote:Wow. :shock: This WI seems so different than the one I knew a few years ago.

Things in Green Bay have gone downhill, too, since I enlisted in '01.

When I came back in '05, it was noticably more urbanized. Can't wait for CCW in Nov...
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby squinty » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:41 pm

prebans wrote:I'm glad my edit entertained, but I didn't see the original as funny..?

Let's talk turkey. Good advice? Bad advice? A mix?

Mike


A mix. Suarez offers some sensible sounding (to me anyway) tactical advice but he tends to foam at the mouth quite a bit, which IMO hurts his message.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby prebans » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:48 pm

Someone noted the state fair incident. The governor has now called in state troopers to provide more security. Unescorted minors are now also banned after 5:00 pm.

Here's a larger article discussing what happened. Some of the commentary from two Aldermen is ... very telling and somewhat shocking. I've added comments in italics to explain things that may be unknown to those outside of WI.

-----

From http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/126828998.html

State Patrol called in, youth policy imposed after violence at State Fair

By Don Walker and Mike Johnson of the Journal Sentinel

Gov. Scott Walker has ordered the Wisconsin State Patrol to provide additional law enforcement help at the Wisconsin State Fair after several incidents involving rampaging youths broke out on the fairgrounds and on the streets outside Thursday night.

Cullen Werwie, Walker's spokesman, said the governor made the decision after reviewing the events from Thursday night, in which at least 24 people were arrested.

"We will continue to evaluate the situation and make any adjustments necessary to ensure a successful and safe event. We will be doing everything in our power to ensure that parents feel that it is safe to bring their children to the world's best fair," Werwie said in a statement.

Also, Rick Frenette, CEO of the fair, announced that, because of the violence overnight, the fair would immediately implement a policy in which no youths under 18 years of age would be allowed onto the grounds after 5 p.m. without a parent or guardian who is at least 21 years of age. There will be no changes at the Midway.

Frenette, a veteran of 40 years in the fair management business, said he had never implemented such a policy before. The International Association of Fairs and Expositions said there is only one other fair in the country -- the South Carolina State Fair -- that has such a policy.

On Friday afternoon, Mayor Tom Barrett announced an increase in police presence at community events planned for the week. He said there would be no tolerance for violence at festivals and that perpetrators will be prosecuted -- regardless of race.

"Two years ago I was a victim of a random attack at State Fair… last night's events took place at State Fair that I don't believe are random," he said at a City Hall news conference.

Mike's note: Two years ago, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett witnessed a domestic dispute outside of the WI State Fair. The mayor tried to intervene and was beat by a man with a pipe who was attacking a woman. You can read more about this at http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/53347442.html.

Barrett didn't indicate if he believed the events were racially charged.

Barrett said this weekend is of special importance because of the Historic Third Association Jazz festival, the African World Festival and the Milwaukee Comedy Festival in addition to the fair. He said police presence will be increased at all events.

Alds. Bob Donovan and Joe Dudzik issued a joint statement in reaction to the violence: "Let's face it, it also has much to do with a deteriorating African American culture in our city. Are large groups of Hispanics or Hmong going out in large mobs and viciously attacking whites? No."

Mike's note: This sort of talk is ... unheard of ... from most elected officials in the area. I'm shocked to see this, much less see it in print.

On Friday, police from three jurisdictions - West Allis, Milwaukee and Wisconsin State Fair - were piecing together a series of incidents late Thursday night at the fair in which large groups of youths rampaged through the midway and outside the grounds after closing. At least 24 were arrested, and seven officers were hurt, a State Fair official said.

Tom Struebing, chief of the State Fair Police, said two of the seven injured officers were hospitalized. One was hit in the face with an improvised weapon; the other suffered a concussion.

Mike's note: It's pretty crazy, even around here, to hear about police being beaten by mobs of youths.

Struebing said the fights that broke out in the midway area involved black youths fighting other black youths. He said those fights were not racially motivated.

The incidents at the fair also caused confusion among police agencies. Anne E. Schwartz, the Milwaukee police spokeswoman, said West Allis police did not request mutual aid from the Milwaukee Police Department.

Schwartz said Milwaukee police responded to four incidents connected to the fair incidents, but those came from citizens calling police directly. She said one person was arrested by Milwaukee police on a warrant.

Officials could not say what started what witnesses said was a series of racially charged incidents that apparently began as early as 7 p.m. in the midway. The midway is located just east of the Pettit National Ice Center and adjacent to the Hank Aaron State Trail.

Milwaukee police confirmed there were assaults outside the fair as the fair was closing down. The fair closes at 11 p.m.

A State Fair official said most of those arrested were cited for disorderly conduct.

Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn scheduled a news conference later Friday afternoon to discuss the incidents and his department's involvement. He is expected to be joined by officials of the NAACP and the Historic Third Ward Association, which is sponsoring Saturday's Historic Third Ward Jazz Festival.

Common Council President Willie Hines said he was at the fair Thursday night and witnessed black on black crime, but did not see any blacks attack whites.

He said that if there was, those individuals should be charged with the crime as well as a hate crime.

"They should be penalized for the prime incident and we should have a racial enhancer," Hines said.

Hines said State Fair Police acted appropriately and professionally. "They were working hard to control the chaos," Hines said.

He said there may have been some coordination problems with other police departments outside the grounds of the fair.
Witnesses report attacks

Witnesses told WTMJ-AM (620) that dozens to hundreds of young black people were beating white people as they left the fair late Thursday night. Patrice Harris, a spokeswoman for the fair, said a police alert she was given indicated four people were hurt.

"It looked like they were just going after white guys, white people," Norb Roffers of Wind Lake told WTMJ. He said he left the State Fair entrance near the corner of S. 84th St. and W. Schlinger Ave. in West Allis.

One eyewitness, a concession worker who works near the midway area, told the Journal Sentinel that large groups of African-American youths ran through the midway area, knocking over young children and adults, disrupting midway rides and tearing signs up.

"I have never seen anything like it," the worker said. "It was mob mentality."

The concession worker said the incidents began at 7 p.m. "All of a sudden a wave of kids were running through the midway," he said.

The worker said there was police, including officers on horseback, as well as other security, but it was not enough.

"All of a sudden we were hearing whistles," the worker said.

A 34-year-old Muskego man said he was riding on the Ferris wheel in the midway with one of his children when he heard shouts of "fight."

"The trouble really started somewhere between 7 and 8 p.m.," said the man, who did not want to be identified because he was worried about the safety of his family. "We just heard this roar start. It was almost like you're at a football game and a touchdown is scored and you just hear the crowd start roaring."

"I've never seen anything like this in my life. There were hundreds - like 200 to 300 would be my guess. It wasn't like 10 or 20. There was definitely a fight going on in the middle. There were so many people you couldn't see who was fighting. There was just this big group that kept growing and chanting, 'fight, fight, fight.' "

"That lasted for one to two minutes. Then when security showed up blowing some whistles, all of this mob started running. It was like a herd of cattle," he said.

The man described the crowd gathered around the fight as African-American, predominantly male and mainly 15- to 20-year-olds.

Fights break out

Another eyewitness, a Children's Hospital of Wisconsin worker who was with his wife, a daughter, a friend of his daughter's, a brother and a sister-in-law, said they arrived at the midway at 9:15 p.m.

At about 9:40 p.m., he said he saw the first of two fights break out.

"I couldn't see who was fighting but there was an incredible mob mentality," he said. The eyewitness estimated the mob at between 30 to 50 black youths.

"We felt threatened. Without a doubt," the eyewitness said.

He said a game-booth operator allowed his group to seek shelter in the booth while fights broke out.

"Fortunately, the police on horses arrived quite quickly," the eyewitness said.

The eyewitness said he was the recipient of several racially charged comments from the black youths. At one point, he said, he approached a security guard and told him he had better get more security to the scene. He said he told the security officer that "trouble was brewing."

"The scariest part is that we were trapped between the midway and the exits by the mob, we had no way out. It was very frightening," the hospital worker said. "It was glaringly obvious something was going to happen long before it did," the hospital worker said.

One woman, a Marquette University employee, had left the fair with a friend. She said they had just turned onto S. 84th St., across the street from the fair and were headed north toward I-94 when they saw young black youths running between cars on the street.

"Then groups of kids began surging, all running at cars," she said. "Some kids ran up on the hood of the car in front of us, bounced on it and jumped off. That guy looked like he got out of the car. When he came back his face was bloody."

She said she wasn't sure if the man was able to get medical attention. "I saw somebody in the car with cellphones, probably calling police."

"It was scary and it was confusing," she added. "We didn't know what was happening. We didn't see any law enforcement officer."

She said she and her friend were concerned that somebody would try to break into their car. "There were so many people coming at you. Yes, it was scary."

Another woman said she and her boyfriend were leaving the fair on a motorcycle about 11:30 p.m. Thursday when she saw a "mob of black teens picking on a very tall white teen" around S. 84th St. and W. Greenfield Ave.

"I stated to my boyfriend that there is going to be problems over there and I hope the cops are watching this and within seconds I saw the white teen attempting to punch his way out of a circle of black teens," the woman said in an e-mail to the newspaper. "My heart just fell for him. As we turned, I saw security at the entrance to the State Fair and I yelled get over there! They are beating up a kid! We turned, as we went toward the expressway we then had to witness the police involved in multiple stops and incidents down 84th."

Harris said Friday that police officers were involved in breaking up numerous fights at the midway. She could not immediately provide a number, but said a number of arrests were made. Most of the arrests were for disorderly conduct.

"Throughout the night we had fights, but that's not atypical," Harris said.

Rick Pries of Milwaukee had spent the entire day at the fair with a friend and her two grandchildren.

"We were in the midway and it was very crowded. While the kids were waiting in line I noticed large groups of black males running through the very crowded midway, yelling there was a fight," Pries said. "There were several of these large groups all converging to this location."

Pries said he decided to take the two children he was watching out of a line they were waiting in and leave the fair.

"There was very little security," he said. "And the few that were there would have been overwhelmed by the sheer number of troublemakers," Pries said.

The concession worker said he was not personally hassled, but he was concerned the youths would attempt to take his cash register. He closed his concession stand early for safety reasons.

"I was planning to take my kids to the fair tonight," he said Friday morning. "I definitely won't now."

The Wisconsin State Fair is located in different jurisdictions. The north side of the fairgrounds from the Hank Aaron State Trail north is in the city of Milwaukee. The rest of the fair is in West Allis. Adding to the confusion is that the Wisconsin State Fair Park police has jurisdiction only on the fairgrounds, not outside of it.

Similar disturbances

The fair incidents are similar to mob-like disturbances that occurred over the Fourth of July weekend in Milwaukee.

About 60 young people beat and robbed a smaller group that had been watching fireworks from Kilbourn Reservoir Park. The injured people were white; the attackers were African-American, witnesses said.

Another group looted a convenience store at a gas station at the corner E. North Ave. and N. Humboldt Blvd.

The incidents Thursday night come as the State Fair board over the last decade has worked to increase diversity at the annual fair, expanding its entertainment lineup and marketing to appeal to a younger, more multicultural audience. Diversity was a priority for State Fair Park Chairman Martin Greenberg, who spoke often of making it "truly the people's park" - a "place of inclusion, not exclusion."

Thursday night's Main Stage performer was rapper MC Hammer, but a number of people who attended the concert said the show wasn't to blame at all for the disturbances at the fair. One woman said the crowd watching Hammer was mostly white and adult and any children there seemed to be with parents.

Another woman said the concert was "very laid back and had no craziness that we witnessed at all. The craziness was in the midway," she said.

Journal Sentinel staff writers Rustin Fakheri, Breann Schossow and Annysa Johnson contributed to this report.

-----

I'm still sort of surprised. Riverwest on the Fourth of July weekend is one thing. The State %$#@! Fair??! I don't know what to say to this.

Mike
"The arms business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
-With apologies to Hunter S. Thompson
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby ShaneP » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:34 pm

Kutter_0311 wrote:
Nth90 wrote:Wow. :shock: This WI seems so different than the one I knew a few years ago.

Things in Green Bay have gone downhill, too, since I enlisted in '01.

When I came back in '05, it was noticably more urbanized. Can't wait for CCW in Nov...

+1
I was a highway man along the coach roads i did ride, with sword and pistol by my side many of young men lost there marbles to my trade, and many a soldiers lost there blood upon my blade. The bastards hung me in the spring of 25 but im still alive. ~~ The highwaymen ~~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1bHaUk1CM
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby Arcana71 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:44 am

squinty wrote:Suarez offers some sensible sounding (to me anyway) tactical advice but he tends to foam at the mouth quite a bit, which IMO hurts his message.

There are times when he sounds like Phil Elmore and Jack Bauer had a baby and abandoned him on Stormfront's doorstep.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby squinty » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:35 pm

Arcana71 wrote:
squinty wrote:Suarez offers some sensible sounding (to me anyway) tactical advice but he tends to foam at the mouth quite a bit, which IMO hurts his message.

There are times when he sounds like Phil Elmore and Jack Bauer had a baby and abandoned him on Stormfront's doorstep.

Yep.
George Orwell wrote:Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby Arcana71 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:51 pm

squinty wrote:
Arcana71 wrote:There are times when he sounds like Phil Elmore and Jack Bauer had a baby and abandoned him on Stormfront's doorstep.
Yep.
OK. Whew. Glad I'm not the only one. I mean... how many other forums can you name where it's the owner who ruins it for everybody?*

*No fair saying WarRifles. WarRifles doesn't count.
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby prebans » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:31 pm

Dupe- deleted.

Mike
Last edited by prebans on Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The arms business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
-With apologies to Hunter S. Thompson
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Re: Milwaukee, WI had a racial mob riot on the Fourth.

Postby prebans » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:32 pm

There's a site tracking violent flash mobs.

It's definitely ...interesting... reading.

http://violentflashmobs.com/

Mike
"The arms business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
-With apologies to Hunter S. Thompson
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