Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

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ironvic52
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Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by ironvic52 » Sat May 21, 2011 3:41 pm

My EMT partner and I were asked by Los Angeles PD SWAT to accompany them into a hospital in West L.A. where 2 nurses had been shot with a hunting rifle by a disgruntled employee. The shooter was still in the building and SWAT teams were rappelling down the highrise hospital checking windows looking for him. Can you imagine hanging from a piece of rope dropping from window to window, several stories from the ground and possibly dropping into view of a guy with a powerful rifle pointed at you? Scary thought.

On the 2nd floor X-ray department's floor, surgeons were operating on two female nurses and our job would be to use our portable suction unit to clear blood and fluids from their wide-open chest cavities while the nurses were being moved on the run to the operating room. We'd have to rush from nurse to nurse and not worry too much about cross contamination as this was the most serious and heart-breaking call I ever responded to. Just getting to the floor required a harrowing trip from the ER, carrying our gear, surrounded by about 7 SWAT team members.

Up until that day, I was not a shooter. I actually was leaning toward the anti-gun side of the political spectrum. The team leader asked if I knew "How to work an 870..." I didn't even know what an 870 was. He showed me how to use it, shucked in a big, fat 12 Gauge round of buck and and said, "If I get shot, grab my shotgun and do what you need to do..." Good gawd, I was so scared, the sweat running down my spine was ice cold.

The scene upstairs was ghastly and blood clots the size of large jellyfish were scattered all over the floor like obscene puddles. One girl was only recognizable because I had seen her pretty floral dress under the lab coat on many occasions. I always thought she'd look great naked, and that picture still in my head of her stripped to the waist with her chest pulled wide open by retractors haunted my nightmares for many years. Just as we walked up to the horror show, the doctors were "pronouncing" them both. Nurses, techs and surgeons were sobbing red streaked tears, sharing their grief in tight hugs. Blood was everywhere and I was suddenly not scared anymore. Both nurses lay where they fell, eyes at half mast, honoring their departed souls. I was calm, angry and secretly hoping to meet up with the killer on the way back to the command post in the ER.

We never did catch up with the murderer. And I learned to love the gun on the very same day I became a bonafide man at 23. In just the space of an hour, I learned how to operate a shotgun under the worst of conditions, committed both myself and my partner by volunteering us to go in and put our lives on the line, and was ready to shoot a stranger because he needed to be shot.

Moral of the story? Learn to shoot, have a gun (legally) when you need one (nowadays, for me, it's a Smith & Wesson Centennial) and be ready to defend yourself or someone else at any time. That was over 30 years ago and right now, you can hand me any gun, rifle, pistol, whatever and either I've shot an example of it at some time or other, or can figure it out pretty quick. I guess I was the classic anti-gunner. My conversion to avid shooter was the result of needing a gun and not having a gun, or even knowing what to do with it if I did have one. It's too bad it took two really nice nurses to show me the way.

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by darius379 » Sat May 21, 2011 4:00 pm

i completely appreciate this post. +1. Sadly we all learn from the loss of people that are special to us. My biggest fear has always been that someone i know would fall so that i could learn a lesson..
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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by mough » Sat May 21, 2011 4:00 pm

Whats that smell?

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Browning 35 » Sat May 21, 2011 4:30 pm

mough wrote:Whats that smell?
I think that what you smell is bullshit.

The only instance I can find of anything even resembling what the OP describes is this one.

http://articles.sfgate.com/1999-09-15/n ... cal-center

See what I mean?
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=nurses ... rt=50&sa=N
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

ironvic52
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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by ironvic52 » Sat May 21, 2011 4:34 pm

Browning 35 wrote:
mough wrote:Whats that smell?
I think that what you smell is bullshit.

The only instance I can find of anything even resembling what the OP describes is this one.

http://articles.sfgate.com/1999-09-15/n ... cal-center

See what I mean?
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=nurses ... rt=50&sa=N
Nope you're both wrong. Try Kaiser West L.A. 1975, it would have been in the summer, around August. Schaefer Ambulance, Car Seven Four out of P&S. Sorry to break up your little BS fest. You should take your BS detectors in to be recalibrated.
Last edited by ironvic52 on Sat May 21, 2011 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by ironvic52 » Sat May 21, 2011 4:38 pm

darius379 wrote:i completely appreciate this post. +1. Sadly we all learn from the loss of people that are special to us. My biggest fear has always been that someone i know would fall so that i could learn a lesson..
Sounds like you don't need to learn the lesson, you already know it. My life is full of stories like these because I always sought out good work that was just a little ahead of my ability. It's been a good one, full of lessons learned, sometimes the hard way, but I wouldn't trade it for anyone else's.

In the end, though, you have to suffer through the PTSD, nightmares and trauma, but if you grow and survive in the process, the whole ordeal of life is worth it.

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by the_alias » Sat May 21, 2011 4:41 pm

ironvic52 wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:
mough wrote:Whats that smell?
I think that what you smell is bullshit.

The only instance I can find of anything even resembling what the OP describes is this one.

http://articles.sfgate.com/1999-09-15/n ... cal-center

See what I mean?
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=nurses ... rt=50&sa=N
Nope you're both wrong. Try Kaiser West L.A. 1975. Schaefer Ambulance, Car Seven Four out of P&S. Sorry to break up your little BS fest. You should take your BS detectors in to be recalibrated.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ka ... f62ee76f8a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zero results ....
Man is a beast of prey

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Confucius » Sat May 21, 2011 4:42 pm

the_alias wrote:
ironvic52 wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:
mough wrote:Whats that smell?
I think that what you smell is bullshit.

The only instance I can find of anything even resembling what the OP describes is this one.

http://articles.sfgate.com/1999-09-15/n ... cal-center

See what I mean?
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=nurses ... rt=50&sa=N
Nope you're both wrong. Try Kaiser West L.A. 1975. Schaefer Ambulance, Car Seven Four out of P&S. Sorry to break up your little BS fest. You should take your BS detectors in to be recalibrated.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ka ... f62ee76f8a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zero results ....
http://californianews.kaiserpapers.org/May-1-1975.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I make no judgement as to the truth of his story, but it apparently did happen.

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by the_alias » Sat May 21, 2011 4:45 pm

Confucius wrote:Evidence of superior google searcher.
Google news archive failed me! :cry: :lol:
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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by SksScout » Sat May 21, 2011 4:46 pm

the_alias wrote:
ironvic52 wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:
mough wrote:Whats that smell?
I think that what you smell is bullshit.

The only instance I can find of anything even resembling what the OP describes is this one.

http://articles.sfgate.com/1999-09-15/n ... cal-center

See what I mean?
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=nurses ... rt=50&sa=N
Nope you're both wrong. Try Kaiser West L.A. 1975. Schaefer Ambulance, Car Seven Four out of P&S. Sorry to break up your little BS fest. You should take your BS detectors in to be recalibrated.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ka ... f62ee76f8a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zero results ....
Your google-fu is weak my son. http://californianews.kaiserpapers.org/May-1-1975.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Biggin » Sat May 21, 2011 4:46 pm

derp, wrong thread.

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Grey Mann » Sat May 21, 2011 4:47 pm

Only one nurse died, not both; I would also argue there's no way the suspect whipped out a "hunting rifle". I also have a hard time seeing a SWAT team repelling down the side of a building in 1975.
Last edited by Grey Mann on Sat May 21, 2011 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by the_alias » Sat May 21, 2011 4:48 pm

SksScout wrote:
Your google-fu is weak my son. http://californianews.kaiserpapers.org/May-1-1975.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And you're late to the party my father.
8)
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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Browning 35 » Sat May 21, 2011 4:53 pm

the_alias wrote:
ironvic52 wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:
mough wrote:Whats that smell?
I think that what you smell is bullshit.

The only instance I can find of anything even resembling what the OP describes is this one.

http://articles.sfgate.com/1999-09-15/n ... cal-center

See what I mean?
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=nurses ... rt=50&sa=N
Nope you're both wrong. Try Kaiser West L.A. 1975. Schaefer Ambulance, Car Seven Four out of P&S. Sorry to break up your little BS fest. You should take your BS detectors in to be recalibrated.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ka ... f62ee76f8a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zero results ....
http://californianews.kaiserpapers.org/May-1-1975.html

I found this case before when I did a search just in case the OP was older....still doesn't match up with the description.

- There wasn't a 'Hunting Rifle' - the Nurses were shot with a pistol that 'Armstrong drew.....after a heated argument.
- One Nurse was killed (the OP states that Both Nurses were 'Pronounced' Dead...that must make the second nurse the second person to be resurrected since Jesus H. Christ :wink: )
Last edited by Browning 35 on Sat May 21, 2011 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by the_alias » Sat May 21, 2011 4:55 pm

I love the one upmanship of ZS

Now had three people point out I didn't find the article meaning two either can't read or just want to wave their massive google dicks around.
Good job guys :roll:

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Browning 35 » Sat May 21, 2011 4:58 pm

the_alias wrote:I love the one upmanship of ZS

Now had three people point out I didn't find the article meaning two either can't read or just want to wave their massive google dicks around.
Good job guys :roll:
Actually I think we just posted all about the same time.

When I started my post the others weren't there.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Grey Mann » Sat May 21, 2011 5:02 pm

What do you want? I'm a fucking ninja. :twisted:
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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Stercutus » Sat May 21, 2011 5:14 pm

He also said that they never caught the murderer. Technically true, since he turned himself in.

What kind of SWAT member is going to let someone who has no idea how work a firearm loose with an 870? Only in LA I guess.
I also have a hard time seeing a SWAT team repelling down the side of a building in 1975.
They did it in Chicago in the 70s, I imagine that LA did it too. Would look nifty on TV.
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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Angrypirate » Sat May 21, 2011 5:17 pm

Browning 35 wrote:I found this case before when I did a search just in case the OP was older....still doesn't match up with the description.

- There wasn't a 'Hunting Rifle' - the Nurses were shot with a pistol that 'Armstrong drew.....after a heated argument.
- One Nurse was killed (the OP states that Both Nurses were 'Pronounced' Dead...that must make the second nurse the second person to be resurrected since Jesus H. Christ :wink: )
Go read up on flashbulb memories before you start criticising people for not remembering traumatic experiences perfectly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashbulb_memory

The famous one is the series of different answers President Bush gave as to where he was when he firs heard of the Sep. 11 attacks, who told him and what was said. As time went by, all the details kept on changing. Conspiracy theorists claimed it as evidence the attack was planned by the government, psychologists saw it as a failure of episodic memory. Its very common, and has probably led to a lot of people being in gaol who shouldn't be there, and a lot of people walking free who should be behind bars. The human mind is far from perfect.

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by JTNieman » Sat May 21, 2011 5:17 pm

http://californianews.kaiserpapers.org/May-1-1975.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow. Maybe that's him.

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by the_alias » Sat May 21, 2011 5:23 pm

JamesCannon wrote:http://californianews.kaiserpapers.org/May-1-1975.html

Wow. Maybe that's him.
An authentic response if I ever saw one.
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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Browning 35 » Sat May 21, 2011 5:25 pm

Angrypirate wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:I found this case before when I did a search just in case the OP was older....still doesn't match up with the description.

- There wasn't a 'Hunting Rifle' - the Nurses were shot with a pistol that 'Armstrong drew.....after a heated argument.
- One Nurse was killed (the OP states that Both Nurses were 'Pronounced' Dead...that must make the second nurse the second person to be resurrected since Jesus H. Christ :wink: )
Go read up on flashbulb memories before you start criticising people for not remembering traumatic experiences perfectly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashbulb_memory

The famous one is the series of different answers President Bush gave as to where he was when he firs heard of the Sep. 11 attacks, who told him and what was said. As time went by, all the details kept on changing. Conspiracy theorists claimed it as evidence the attack was planned by the government, psychologists saw it as a failure of episodic memory. Its very common, and has probably led to a lot of people being in gaol who shouldn't be there, and a lot of people walking free who should be behind bars. The human mind is far from perfect.
Wonderful....I just don't think that it applies to a guy who has also claimed to have intubated himself on the operating table.

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=80232
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Stercutus » Sat May 21, 2011 5:32 pm

Wonderful....I just don't think that it applies to a guy who has also claimed to have intubated himself on the operating table.
Well he is an old dude, maybe he has been saving it all up and wants let everyone know before he passes on in life. Besides I intubated myself just the other day. (well ok it was a nasopharyngeal air way but there was no doctor shoving it up my nose and telling my wife I wasn't going to make it if I did not take it down)
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Re: Needed a gun and didn't have a gun

Post by Angrypirate » Sat May 21, 2011 6:19 pm

Browning 35 wrote: Wonderful....I just don't think that it applies to a guy who has also claimed to have intubated himself on the operating table.
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=80232
You may have a point there. I didn't see that thread until after I posted. I still say we give him the benefit of the doubt on this one, and I'll leave the decision on the other one to those who know more than I do about medical matters, it does seem a little extreme. :?




(Flashbulb memories are still crazy... check out the studies comparing how people remember Mother Theresa's death to their memories of Princess Diana. Weird.)

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