FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

[ndjinn]

All the posts on here, I am amazed there is no decision on the FNH 5.7 pistol. (if I missed it, sorry I am new).

Allow me to give some background on the pistol and why I chose it and have been carrying it for three years as my EDC.

First the ammo ballistics are great; 1800-2200 FPS in a pistol. You have the choice of JHP and Ballistic tip. My own personal range test show it going through class IIIa armor. The magazine capacity is a stagering 20 rounds. It's very low recoil. I should mention the gun frame is big, but most adults can manage the weapon. Tests show the rounds leave a .30 cal wound channel with little worry of over penetration by way of considerable bullet fragmentation, while still penetrating the hard/semi-hard cover surfaces. (mil only ammo was tested to penetrate SAPI plates at 100 meters with lethal result velocity and bullet mass)

What's an added draw and a primary factor in development of the round and weapon platform is the partnered PDW the P90/PS90 with 50 round magazines and now there is an AR upper (AR57) that uses the P90 mags with the comfortable design of an AR (without the gas system, uses a basic spring recoil for worry free operation). So you can opt for the pistol for EDC and the PDW for CQB out to 100 meters.

The price does put people off. $1000 for the handgun, $1700 for the P90 and ~$1400 for the AR57. Ammo is a bit steep at around $27 for a box of 50. But if you can stomach the cost, there is little to compare it too. It wears great, is battlefield tested and has stopping power for soft and armored target.

I have fired over 2000 rounds though mine and I love it. At home I have a Streamlight TL1s weapon light/strobe mounted bellow the barrel (which sharpens up the recoil by having all the extra weight) which I remove prior to carrying it with me outside - though I take the light with me, kept in a pocket of my Maxpedition Mongo.

Please weigh in with your experiences of the FiveseveN....

[Liff]

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=78661

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=18416&p=363504&hilit=5.7x28#p363504

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=50839&p=1054629&hilit=5.7x28#p1054629

It does have some serious advantages to the system. And quite a few disadvantages. Everything it does really well, it gave up somewhere else. Nothing is perfect at the and of the day.

Welcome to the forums also, glad to have you.

[TerryGecko]

The 5.7x28mm cartridge is controversial. A lot of people love it, a lot of people hate it. There is a lot of solid information out there about it but there is ton of misinformation also.

The point is, if you sift through ALL the info, look at it objectively, train with the FsN/PS90 constantly, know it's pros/cons, and use the correct ammo, I believe the FsN/PS90 can be an amazing combination. Which is why I CCW a FsN every day. There are plenty of SHTF situations where I will bring my PS90 along with me. There are also some where I will bring my AR15/Remington 700. However, I will always have my FsN with me.

ndjinn, I'm sure you already know but if not, you should check out www.eliteammunition.com. Almost all of their loads outperform the SS190 (LE/Mil only 5.7x28mm round). They make rounds that fragment, tumble, expand, or are catered to be used with a suppressor. Some of them reach speeds of over 3000fps. I've been carrying their PenetraTOR round but am about to start using their ProtecTOR II load.

[ndjinn]

We have a good community of 57 folks here. But correct it is not a fits all tool. I carry a Glock 20 (10mm in BuffloBore) in the backcountry and weight and space allowable my Bernelli M4 shotgun.

One little secret of the ballistics of 5.7x28 in a PDW is if you zero it at 50 yards it is also zeroed at about 135+- yards (depending on optics height).

I should have added in my first post that always choose the right tool for the job. For me and EDC with soft targets the Fiveseven works for me. I do know more then a few ex-mil types that do not like the round (but these are guys who carried 5.56, which only has slightly more power, better range, but a smaller wound channel with over penetration issues..... so???)

[bae]

The magazine capacity is a stagering 20 rounds.

A Glock 17 with factory +2 mags is 19+1 round, for a staggering 20 rounds. Or you can put a 33 round "happy stick" in, for 33+1 rounds.

(mil only ammo was tested to penetrate SAPI plates at 100 meters with lethal result velocity and bullet mass)

What kind of plates does the "mil only" ammo go through?

The plates in my armor will stop 30-06AP, will the 5.7x28 go through them?

It ... is battlefield tested

Which battlefields has it been seriously used on in anger? How many units are deployed? For how many years?

[KentsOkay]

The USAF has shown that P90's kill everything from parasite incubating, armored alien human warriors, life sucking aliens, space communists, nano block / particle robots and humanoids (no wait, shotguns work better for those guys), scaly, muscular reptile bad asses, to snake in the head bad guys with god complexes.

5.7x28 may be a tad over rated, but I'd still buy a PS90, especially when CDNN has 'em for $1300. The FiveseveN is much less sexy to me, but I'd still get one to complete the set, and an AR upper. I'd probably leave the barrel full length, just for the extra zippyness.

Five-seveN as a side arm, PS90 for everything out to 200 yards, and a M1A for everything else? That just makes me happeh

Of course I'm not rich so it looks like a Mini-14 or lever gun for me...

[bae]

... I'd still buy a PS90, especially when CDNN has 'em for $1300. ... I'd probably leave the barrel full length, just for the extra zippyness.

Exactly so. I've been very pleased with my PS90 the past several years for dealing with those vile, carnivorous Procyon Lotor critters that lurk in the shadows. I suspect they are Goa'uld-infested.

[TerryGecko]

The magazine capacity is a stagering 20 rounds.

A Glock 17 with factory +2 mags is 19+1 round, for a staggering 20 rounds. Or you can put a 33 round "happy stick" in, for 33+1 rounds.

(mil only ammo was tested to penetrate SAPI plates at 100 meters with lethal result velocity and bullet mass)

What kind of plates does the "mil only" ammo go through?

The plates in my armor will stop 30-06AP, will the 5.7x28 go through them?

It ... is battlefield tested

Which battlefields has it been seriously used on in anger? How many units are deployed? For how many years?

SS190 and various other 5.7x28mm loads from Elite Ammunition will defeat up to IIIa with a CRISAT plate with minimal loss in velocity. So where a 9mm or 45acp would fail, the 5.7x28mm would still offer a chance. You are correct that rifle plates will stop it though.

The FsN is a big gun but its no heavier than a Glock 19. However, the 30rd mags for the FsN are a little easier to conceal than a Glock 18 magazine.

I'm sure you know, the USSS, Israeli Mossad, and French Forgein Legion use the P90/FsN but its not as widely used as the MP5, UZI etc...

[Unorthodox]

The magazine capacity is a stagering 20 rounds.

A Glock 17 with factory +2 mags is 19+1 round, for a staggering 20 rounds. Or you can put a 33 round "happy stick" in, for 33+1 rounds.

Yeah, but does Sam Fisher use a glock?



Didn't think so

[DarkandShiny]

Terry Gecko makes some good points. It is important to remember that once all the misinformation is sorted out the fact remains that there is no 'magic-do-everything' round. Figure out what your mission is and equip accordingly. The FsN PS90 combo has some really cool capabilities and is worth a serious look. In a SHTF senario I wonder how available five seven ammo will be. I have the capability to reload 9mm, 45acp, 308, 223, 357 etc rounds and even cast bullets if I need to. Because those rounds have been around for an eternity, supply won't be a huge problem for those that are prepared. However I think it is even MORE important to chose a round/gun combo that you shoot well. I can put 200 rounds of 9mm in the 10 ring any day of the week with my XDm, but I'm tired after 20 rounds of .357 out of a SW 686. If the OP is still watching this thread my advise is to try out the FsN five seven and if you shoot it well, make a purchase. Just be aware of the strengths and weakness of the equipment you're using.

[J.C.]

In a SHTF senario I wonder how available five seven ammo will be. I have the capability to reload 9mm, 45acp, 308, 223, 357 etc rounds and even cast bullets if I need to. Because those rounds have been around for an eternity, supply won't be a huge problem for those that are prepared.

Yeah, we hate this meme here. The fact is, either you are prepared (have needed ammo stocked) or you aren't. "Planning" to acquire ammunition in a disaster scenario is not prepping. Its Arfcom bullshit.

[Gramaton Cleric]

Well i can honestly say ill have the ammo and my Five Seven when the time comes

[gelgoog]

In a SHTF senario I wonder how available five seven ammo will be. I have the capability to reload 9mm, 45acp, 308, 223, 357 etc rounds and even cast bullets if I need to. Because those rounds have been around for an eternity, supply won't be a huge problem for those that are prepared.

how easy to find were those calibers during the obama panic? Most people could not walk into a store and find any common caliber for months at a time. If you had trouble finding it locally during the obama panic, then do not count on finding any ammunition during the a real SHTF situation.

[DarkandShiny]

Just need to clarify...

I wrote

supply won't be a huge problem for those that are prepared.

I agree that you are prepared or you are not. For those that are, ammunition won't be a problem. If, however, you must bug out or some other factor forces you to move from your supplies, the chance is much greater that you are going to be able to acquire more common rounds more easily. The fact remains that there are more rounds of 45acp, 9mm, 223 etc than other newer/less common rounds. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise.

Sorry for the confusion - It was poorly written.

The 5.7 is the only handgun my wife will shoot (she hasn't shot the PS90 yet). Since most of us here only get to the range a few times a month as we are busy paying mortgages and raising kids - I think a person can accelerate his/her proficiency by picking a weapon that they naturally shoot well. To the OP, if you shoot the five seven well, then buy it. Don't get to hung up on the ballistics, armor penetrating qualities of the round. Buy what you like, train with what you have.

[BeTheBall]

I carry the Five-seveN all day, every day. I also own an AR57 which is being SBR'd as I write this. I also own a 9mm, 40S&W, .357mag and .45acp (not to mention 5.56, .308 & 12ga) and I train with all of them. Having said that, I choose the FsN as my carry weapon because of its capacity, low recoil, fast follow-up shots and the fact that I can carry ammo that is purpose built.

It is loaded with 20+1 Elite Ammunition ProtecTOR rounds (2100fps @ 389 ft-lbs) which are like the rounds used in the Fort Hood travesty on steroids, yet they are not likely to over penetrate because of the 40gr VMax bullet. I also carry a second mag of Elite's S5 rounds which travel @ 2170fps out of the FsN @ 335 ft-lbs and can defeat 56 levels of Kevlar while still penetrating 9" of ballistic gel.

I decided to test those 2 rounds and some Federal Hydra-Shok .45acp 230gr JHP against 25lb blocks of modeling clay. If you are interested in seeing how they stack up, watch the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opphm-17JfA

[bae]

In a SHTF senario I wonder how available five seven ammo will be.

Well, come on by my trading post then, and we can barter. I've got about 6k rounds stashed away somewhere. I suppose I won't run through that real fast in a "SHTF scenario", because if things are that bad, I'll be a few years working through all these pallets of 30-06 ammo the DCM keeps sending me

[Stumasters]

I am gonna have to say, I don't honestly care for the 5.7. And who ever runs into a guy packing a PS90?

Furthermore, you can't find the ammo anywhere around where I live, and a local "chain" store up the road has both the Five Seven and the PS90. Both guns have been there in the same case, same spot, for the last 5 years...

I guess there aren't many people out there that desire such a weapon.

Plus most of us saw the episode of Tactical arms that classified these weapons as "Get the F off me" guns.

[Einher]

I am gonna have to say, I don't honestly care for the 5.7. And who ever runs into a guy packing a PS90?

Furthermore, you can't find the ammo anywhere around where I live, and a local "chain" store up the road has both the Five Seven and the PS90. Both guns have been there in the same case, same spot, for the last 5 years...

I guess there aren't many people out there that desire such a weapon.

Plus most of us saw the episode of Tactical arms that classified these weapons as "Get the F off me" guns.

And so it begins... again.

[Festus Hagen]

I do know more then a few ex-mil types that do not like the round (but these are guys who carried 5.56, which only has slightly more power, better range, but a smaller wound channel with over penetration issues..... so???)

If you're one of those "ballistics are b.s." types, please skip the following post. BTW, nothing I'm posting is meant as a knock against the 5.7... more of a reality check.

Regarding the 5.7, we have people saying "5.56 is only slightly more power" and I've seen other folks saying "it's a .22 magnum!". Which is it?

Rifle ballistics for the 5.7 are kinda hard to find on google... I did find this
SS195 |---------(27 gr @ 2600 fps)----------|--------(420 ft. lbs)------|---------(16 inches)------|

Also found this on THR "I have chronographed both. My son has a FN PS90. With the Hornady 35 gr. V-Max velocities were in the 2500 to 2600 fps range dependent upon the load. This is with a 16" barrel." That's a little better, with the heavier bullet going the same speed, let's use that one, ok? I ran this through a ME calculator, 525.498 ft-lbs, not bad!

In the same length barrel, a typical 5.56x45 gives about 1200 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. I don't know what a .22 mag does out of a 16 inch barrel, but it's less than 320 ft/lbs... probably less than 300 but I dunno, honestly.

Look, it's just numbers, taken from different sources with different chronys and so on, nothing scientific about it. MY takeaway is, the 5.7 isn't "slightly less power than a 5.56", nor is it "just a .22 mag". It's in between, but closer to the .22 mag... like a .22 hornet, sorta. Now, the fact that modern, purpose-built ammo, optimized for pistol and PDW barrel lengths, is available for the 5.7 makes it pretty different from the .22mag or .22 hornet.

[Mr. Bob]

These 5.7 arguments seem -awfully- similar to 5.56 arguments. What's the next one up, .17?

[Festus Hagen]

These 5.7 arguments seem -awfully- similar to 5.56 arguments. What's the next one up, .17?

Sure! Well, almost http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.6x30mm I guess this thing is .183 inch.

Suppose my .17 hmr is the best zombie slayer out there?

[Liff]

These 5.7 arguments seem -awfully- similar to 5.56 arguments. What's the next one up, .17?

I am not this first one to post this, but this argument is the same as the 58 caliber ball compared to the 75 caliber ball for blackpowder rifles. Then again the same argument for the "little" 45-70. Same again when the 30-40 Krag was brought around, then again the same issue with the 308 Winchester compared to the 30-06. Same issue with the 5.56 to the 7.62x51.

But there is a point where the argument turns for the worst and gets stupid. A good philosophy argument is what is a "heap" of grain? If you take away one kernel of grain, is it still a "heap"? Sure. Take one more kernel away, is it still a "heap"? Yes, but keep doing that and at some point, you no longer have a heap. Background info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_pa ... f_the_heap

So without getting into the meaning of language and philosophical intricacies, ask the easy question: Does the round pass the FBI penetration parameters? If it does, go with your Deity of choice and be safe. If not, pick something else.

And all else being equal, more diameter, more velocity, and more mass are your friends.

[Festus Hagen]

I am not this first one to post this, but this argument is the same as the 58 caliber ball compared to the 75 caliber ball for blackpowder rifles. Then again the same argument for the "little" 45-70. Same again when the 30-40 Krag was brought around, then again the same issue with the 308 Winchester compared to the 30-06. Same issue with the 5.56 to the 7.62x51.

I hear you, but let us remember that the 30-40 Krag was cast aside for the .30-03 (and a few years later, the .30-06, to take advantage of more modern spitzer bullets) as it was judged to be lacking vs. the competition (namely the 7x57 Mauser in the Spanish-American War). We have gone for "more powerful" and could again, the assault rifle of the future is not necessarily destined to be spring-powered and made by Crosman That said, wars have changed, tactics have changed and weapons platforms have changed. I think the 5.56 and this 5.7 are both pretty cool in their own ways.

[xLionx]

I'd like to see an all metal 5.7 pistol