The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby KnightoftheRoc » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:43 am

raptor wrote:
skydiveintohell wrote: if you were carrying tools and looked irritated.



That is a true grey man... the key is to look grump enough that someone won't stop you because they do not want to deal with the BS but not so grumpy that you look mad or threatening. The tools helps mitigate the grumpy look because it looks like the work you are doing is the source of the irritation.

The tools could be a ladder, clipboard, extension cord or even the case for a desk top PC w/o a monitor. I like the desk top pc because it does not even have to have the guts intact and you can use it to hold items that you do not want others to see like clothing, etc.

I like the PC case idea- and if you act like whatever your holding is heavy and annoying, people will hold doors open for you, but they WON'T try to help you carry it. If you decide on something really nasty looking as camouflage for your real load, the chances of them grabbing it go down even further.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Tribunal Power » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:01 am

Fantastic post, but I'd like to add something.

Here in the Commonwealth, openly carrying a handgun is preemptively protected by our constitution. If you can legally own a handgun, you can legally OC it. I do this every single day-- I carry everywhere I legally can, the only exception being while I'm at work. Walmart, the mall, the movies, even the doctors-- my .45 sits Condition One at 3:30. And yet, I rarely get noticed, and even more rarely get bothered.

I've learned a lot about blending. Soemtimes, I stick out, but when your appearance fails to keep you grey, your attitude picks up the slack. I dress nicely, but not too nice; always wearing a fairly tight dress shirt, usually plaid patter, often wearing a fedora or a cabbie hat, with sensible jeans and steel-toe work boots (or Chucks, if I feel like it). I typically wear bright colors and am not afraid to look a little different. Why is this? Because the people that notice me are set at ease by my demeanor.

When someone does notice me, and when someone does notice my gun, they don't recoil. They don't gasp in shock and they don't call the police. This is because I carry myself as though I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be (and I am!). I walk very straight, I always wear a slight smile, I'm well-kempt and very polite, and I crack a joke at all the right times. You may want to call me fake, but being charismatic is a disguise in and of itself, no more or less than the hardhat and clipboard would be.

No, I don't get cops called on me. Instead, I get asked if I'm a cop. That's one of the most common questions, on the occasion that I'm disturbed. Most others genearlly either assume that I'm a cop off-duty or something (I've had a few people tell me they thought I was). The others typically just figure that my weapon is somehow linked to my occupation... I work in a factory.

Walking, speaking, and appearing like you're supposed to be where you are, doing what you are, will end all discussion about whether or not you're a shady fellow. If I wore a band tee and ripped up jeans, a backwards hat and had tattoos, and a bit of gut-pudge, I'd probably have a lot of problems carrying my firearm. But instead, I'm a 5'9" 120lb. guy (I'm light as a feather, but I don't look underweight; I appear well-built for being so thin) who dresses nice and is probably a plainclothes officer, and the people who talk to me walk out of the conversation with a smile on.

I would probably say that this is not so much being invisible, but moreso about misdirection. It's like comparing not being able to find something, to a slight-of-hand trick. Still, the effects are generally the same; people take little notice, and those who do are often either intimidated by your appearance (be it out of fear of the weapon, or out of feeling subconsciously inadequate because of demeanor/dress differences) or assume you are something far more normal than they would otherwise think without the disguise.

I play more on the assumption than I do on blending in. It's important to be able to adapt; if you're the grey man, and suddenly you're in the spotlight, then knowing a little bit of acting and misdirection could prevent a disaster. It's worked well for me so far.

Kudos on the post, OP. :3
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby goblin » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:13 pm

URBAN- Jeans, sports jersey, hoodie or parka, trainers or Doc Martins'. Also concealable hi-cap auto pistol. Maybe add a
shopping cart for the homeless look.

SUBURBAN- Polo shirt, cargo pants or shorts, sandals or hiking boots. Same weapon as URBAN.

RURAL- Checkered shirt, denim overalls, work boots, gimme feed store cap. Also, 30/30 lever gun in the rack!!!



:)
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Canuckdoomer » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:10 pm

Murph wrote:Avoiding eye contact is a great way to get mugged too.


This can be true but read the rest of my post. If you are trying to NOT be noticed or remembered, don't make eye contact. The second you do you WILL be noticed and remembered.

If you are potentially being targeted by a mugger, you want him to know that you know he is there. In this case you are stepping out of the gray man role and a different response is required.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby survivaljoe » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:20 am

Murph wrote:Avoiding eye contact is a great way to get mugged too.


In some places making eye contact is a good way to get mobbed, too.

I like the grey man concept because it has so many viables to take advantage of. Each setting allows for different tactics and tools.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby bcvojak » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:47 pm

ODA 226 wrote:
There is no such thing as a "Grey Man" in a real SHTF situation. Anytime you expose yourself to any kind of observation, you are subject to be confronted and/or attacked.

If you can be seen, you can be hit. If you can be hit, you can be killed. It's as simple as that. If you think that no one will notice you if you wear subdued but non military gear or clothes and no one will pay attention to you, you are wrong. If a group of people are starving and see you walking down a road or a powerline or a railroad track (All of which are STUPID places to be if bugging out when the SHTF)


Your talking about something completely different. .
Yellowstone Super Volcano erupts and your bugging out is NOT a gray man situation. It's a STEALTH situation. In that case (or similar) you are trying to avoid all external contacts.

Gray man is an Argentina economic situation, or perhaps a localized but major disaster situation. It's about HAVING to still go to work every day, or HAVING to leave your home briefly for some reason. In those cases you want to blend in with the hundreds or thousands of others.

If it's economic (currency collapse) you want to dress in a manner that doesn't reveal that you have been eating regularly. i.e. Loose, baggy, dirty clothes. If it's a local disaster, you just don't want to look like a target. Go with the flow, move with the rest. If the guy at the NG checkpoint asks if you need some food you say "yes", not "No thanks, I have a years worth in my basement".

If you bugging out because a pandemic has swept your city and people are dying by the thousands, you DON'T want to be gray. . . You want to be invisible. . .
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby squinty » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:36 pm

I don't want to be the "gray man" really. Gray is so drab and unflattering.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby bovver » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:16 pm

This is a great thread.
Very useful.
I believe in the not to get noticed way of doing things.
Avoiding eye contact is important.
a lot of the thugs take looking at one in the eyes as a welcome to wanting to fight.
think of bootcamp...

you eyeballing me boy?
where you from?
theres only two things that come from texas boy...so squeal like a pig boy...squeal...(or something like that)

Take care of what you have to and get out and back to your own element.
I work in construction and when Im dressed for work it would be dickies and t-shirts and steel toe workboots.
And I find I blend into the background anywhere I go when Im dress like this.
people pay me no mind no matter where Im at,rich area or the projects.

*Edit for a side note because I think it fits in here and maybe give some ideas.
I store extra ammo in a toolbox.
A nice bright orange 9.99 plastic hommer toolbox from home depot.
If you have to leave and dont want people looking at you wierd,toolboxes and tool bags would work great to keep you from being noticed.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Trident » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:04 pm

While at my "how to use your new handy dandy smart phone class" held by my cell phone provider there were a lot of over 40 white males. They all had questions on how to use their new phones out of country ie. India, Saudi Arabia and in Europe. It was surprising to see so many men who travel out of our rural area for months at a time to work over seas.

Any how one fella and I got to talking and he mentioned he had a rancho in a central American country and that his family plans to drive south, not fly if they need to get there.

He stated "Western ie North American" women traveling south need to be "grey" when in the south. This is due to them being use to making eye contact with any male. Males in south of the border take affront when women are direct in their gaze when dealing with authorities.

I thought this was very interesting. I can see that this may apply when north of the border and dealing with latino/hispanic/muslim or orthodox men.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Chef » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:42 pm

Women raised in liberal western democracies may experience difficulties adjusting to places less exposed to feminism. Sometimes in ways spectacularly dangerous to them and anyone with them.

I don't agree with the way women are treated in many places, but the four armed cops looking for a mordida (for an example) are not the people with whom to argue the point of what exactly your rights are.

Anyway, it all goes back to the principle of not making a spectacle of one's self if one wishes to avoid the wrong kind of attention.

And what's with this "Gray Man" thing? "Gray Person" would be the gender-neutral term. :wink:
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby survivaljoe » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:16 am

Oh Great, it was only a matter of time. Next thing you know we'll be calling 'em 'wo-persons' and 'fe-persons'.

Disclaimer: I'm just kidding, this was a joke that's all... :lol:
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Murph » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:23 am

So is "gray man"...

Being an imposter?
Being covert?
Being a secret mall squirrel ninja?
Not being seen at all?
About getting or not getting mugged?
Blending in with the local population?

Because it seems like everyone is talking about something different.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby phil_in_cs » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:41 am

Murph wrote:So is "gray man"...

Being an imposter?
Being covert?
Being a secret mall squirrel ninja?
Not being seen at all?
About getting or not getting mugged?
Blending in with the local population?

Because it seems like everyone is talking about something different.


My view:
* Blending In
* Being thought of as not worth targeting
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby Busto963 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:51 pm

Trident wrote:Any how one fella and I got to talking and he mentioned he had a rancho in a central American country and that his family plans to drive south, not fly if they need to get there.

He stated "Western ie North American" women traveling south need to be "grey" when in the south. This is due to them being use to making eye contact with any male. Males in south of the border take affront when women are direct in their gaze when dealing with authorities.

I thought this was very interesting. I can see that this may apply when north of the border and dealing with latino/hispanic/muslim or orthodox men.

I call BS on your so called expert with the "rancho" (wtf is that?) - the guy may own property in Central America, but clearly has no clue about Latin America to make such really stupid and insulting remarks. This guy also probably thinks that Spanish is the most widely spoken language "south of the border" - it is not (try portugues). :roll:

Exactly when did Central and South America become "Un-Western?" They were colonized by Europeans, have a higher percentage of Christians than the US, look predominantly to Europe (Spain, Portugal, France, and Germany), and the U.S. for culture. Gosh, traveling in South America reminds me more of Western Europe than many geographically European countries. Economically: 40% of our trade is North/South; Mexico, Colombia and Venezuela sell more oil to the U.S. than the Middle East; and Latinos spend 51 cents of every dollar on U.S. goods and services. Heck, Panama City in Panama has a skyline that rivals most US cities. I guess the "LATIN" in Latin America comes from Egypt or Kenya... :roll:

And the statement that "Males in south of the border take affront when women are direct in their gaze when dealing with authorities" is so insulting to be laughable. It is also a good way for women to get into "real trouble" by not to standing their ground when appropriate. There is certainly a fine line here, and you have to know the country, the immediate location, the circumstances and of course the "authorities" but the "direct gaze" bit is just ridiculous. Here is a point to ponder, there have been a lot of female heads of state in Latin America - Argentina and Brasil currently have female presidents - the US has yet to elect a woman as President.

Bottom line: Latin America is a huge, and very diverse place (demographics, culture, religion etc.) - if you want to be grey (in the UK), or gray (in the U.S.); you better know what the local norms are, not some BS on a public forum...
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby rmherbert » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:40 pm

real big fan of force projection. 5'11" 195# 48" chest 33" waist. most leo think i am leo. mannerisms, posture etc. (command presence).
i was invisible in high school and got crap from everybody. when i was 24, i got jumped and stomped pretty badly by two thugs. started kenpo and lifting weights and i haven't been bothered since. when i did lp at a grocery store in the ghetto/barrio part of las vegas i faced down and/or arrested a lot of guys significantly bigger than me. i am real fond of staring at guys throat and firmly commanding he surrender the steaks concealed under his jacket. the biggest fights always came from the skinny little tweakers. a guy half my age and 5" taller and 50# heavier started to swell up and when i leaned in, focused on his trachea, and said " i am not the 'old man' you want trouble with" he hesitated for about ten seconds and then surrendered. i think if you look like a lion, the coyotes will back down.

having said that i don't really go to stabby stabby parties or wander through tweaker town. so iguess i am kind of insulated from that nonsense.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby squinty » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:37 am

I am the baddest motherfucker on the internet.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby ODA 226 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:28 am

rmherbert wrote:real big fan of force projection. 5'11" 195# 48" chest 33" waist. most leo think i am leo. mannerisms, posture etc. (command presence).
i was invisible in high school and got crap from everybody. when i was 24, i got jumped and stomped pretty badly by two thugs. started kenpo and lifting weights and i haven't been bothered since. when i did lp at a grocery store in the ghetto/barrio part of las vegas i faced down and/or arrested a lot of guys significantly bigger than me. i am real fond of staring at guys throat and firmly commanding he surrender the steaks concealed under his jacket. the biggest fights always came from the skinny little tweakers. a guy half my age and 5" taller and 50# heavier started to swell up and when i leaned in, focused on his trachea, and said " i am not the 'old man' you want trouble with" he hesitated for about ten seconds and then surrendered. i think if you look like a lion, the coyotes will back down.

having said that i don't really go to stabby stabby parties or wander through tweaker town. so iguess i am kind of insulated from that nonsense.


I LIKE THIS GUY ALREADY! :lol:
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby ODA 226 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:36 am

bcvojak wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
There is no such thing as a "Grey Man" in a real SHTF situation. Anytime you expose yourself to any kind of observation, you are subject to be confronted and/or attacked.

If you can be seen, you can be hit. If you can be hit, you can be killed. It's as simple as that. If you think that no one will notice you if you wear subdued but non military gear or clothes and no one will pay attention to you, you are wrong. If a group of people are starving and see you walking down a road or a powerline or a railroad track (All of which are STUPID places to be if bugging out when the SHTF)


Your talking about something completely different. . Yellowstone Super Volcano erupts and your bugging out is NOT a gray man situation. It's a STEALTH situation. In that case (or similar) you are trying to avoid all external contacts.


No I'm not. I am talking about a true SHTF situation where there is no law. You are talking about a situation where there are "Inconveniences".

I have been caught in real SHTF situations and made it out unscathed. I speak from experience here. No shit.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby KnightoftheRoc » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:55 am

ODA 226 wrote:
bcvojak wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
There is no such thing as a "Grey Man" in a real SHTF situation. Anytime you expose yourself to any kind of observation, you are subject to be confronted and/or attacked.

If you can be seen, you can be hit. If you can be hit, you can be killed. It's as simple as that. If you think that no one will notice you if you wear subdued but non military gear or clothes and no one will pay attention to you, you are wrong. If a group of people are starving and see you walking down a road or a powerline or a railroad track (All of which are STUPID places to be if bugging out when the SHTF)


Your talking about something completely different. . Yellowstone Super Volcano erupts and your bugging out is NOT a gray man situation. It's a STEALTH situation. In that case (or similar) you are trying to avoid all external contacts.


No I'm not. I am talking about a true SHTF situation where there is no law. You are talking about a situation where there are "Inconveniences".

I have been caught in real SHTF situations and made it out unscathed. I speak from experience here. No shit.

Not to pee in anyone's cheerios here, but if Yellowstone blows, it won't matter which of you is right, you'll both be dead, along with EVERYONE else. If we're going to cite examples, let's keep them realistic, AND survivable. You know, something where there ARE winners.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby T-Boon » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:25 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:keep them realistic, AND survivable. You know, something where there ARE winners.


Like thermo nuclear war, oh wait... :P
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby ODA 226 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:12 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
bcvojak wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
There is no such thing as a "Grey Man" in a real SHTF situation. Anytime you expose yourself to any kind of observation, you are subject to be confronted and/or attacked.

If you can be seen, you can be hit. If you can be hit, you can be killed. It's as simple as that. If you think that no one will notice you if you wear subdued but non military gear or clothes and no one will pay attention to you, you are wrong. If a group of people are starving and see you walking down a road or a powerline or a railroad track (All of which are STUPID places to be if bugging out when the SHTF)


Your talking about something completely different. . Yellowstone Super Volcano erupts and your bugging out is NOT a gray man situation. It's a STEALTH situation. In that case (or similar) you are trying to avoid all external contacts.


No I'm not. I am talking about a true SHTF situation where there is no law. You are talking about a situation where there are "Inconveniences".

I have been caught in real SHTF situations and made it out unscathed. I speak from experience here. No shit.

Not to pee in anyone's cheerios here, but if Yellowstone blows, it won't matter which of you is right, you'll both be dead, along with EVERYONE else. If we're going to cite examples, let's keep them realistic, AND survivable. You know, something where there ARE winners.


I guess it's a good thing that I hate Cherrios and don't live anywhere near Yellowstone... :wink:
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby rmherbert » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:51 am

squinty wrote:I am the baddest motherfucker on the internet.



wow, i hope you don't think that is what i am saying.when i started talking kenpo the first thing i learned was that a guy half my size and twice my age can kick my ass because he knows how not because he is big and strong. i know my skills and abilities pale in comparison to the high speed guys here.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby raptor » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:16 pm

I am quoting Phil's usual wisdom here in an attempt to get and keep this thread on track. If we cannot keep the discussion on track, I will have to lock this thread or removing irrelevant posts. This is a sticky not a chat thread so stay on track.



phil_in_cs wrote:
My view:
* Blending In
* Being thought of as not worth targeting


To add this Phil's remark I would also suggest that being a "Gray Man" also means having the situational awareness and common sense to know when being a Gray Man is appropriate as opposed to being a running man, a hiding man and hopefully never need to be a fighting man.
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Re: The Gray Man: Or How To Be Invisible:

Postby TacAir » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:33 pm

Gray man

I had always thought that being all but invisible (ignored) would be a workable tactic

Like this
Image

Though most of us have so much junk to cart around, gray might = this
Image

The idea here is not so much to blend in as to be something/someone ignored. May not always work
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