EricinMaryland's BOB, formerly "Yet Another BOB by a Noobie"

[CipherNameRaVeN]

We also brought some crayola markers and let them color rocks when we took a break. Crayola will wash off in the rain so we're not vandalizing anything.

For that, I thank you! Good idea! I think I'll use that.

[EricinVirginia]

Glad it worked for you... some pictures of the hike:

[TechDirect]

Eric,

That seems like a great set up, I've really been looking at the Vulture II. How's it handle with up to 40lbs? Also, I have a GSD too, happens to be named Odin He had the same problem, he's 4 now and is JUST starting to put on weight, but it's still easy to lose if he decides to be finicky. Don't worry, it happens with most GSD's. Once again, awesome set up.

[EricinVirginia]

Hey Tech, welcome to ZS.

The Vulture handles the weight decently. I've found that if I tie and cinch everything up really tight, it works better than if you just have stuff hanging loose. At 40 lbs, you run into space constraints with this bag. Overtime, I find that I'm tying and clipping more and more stuff onto it. But, it's not SHTF yet and part of this is exercise. As such, I'll be reconfiguring my BOB into a pre-SHTF BOB, which will remain the Vulture. And a post-SHTF BOB which will be an internal frame backpack that can more easily handle a sleeping bag, ground pad, hammock, and more redundant gear. Right now, my BOB is pushing it with several redudant fire starting and other systems that I doubt I'll need THAT MUCH redundancy right now.

Plus, when I get out on my own with this set up and Loki, we tend to freak other hikers out just a bit. If Loki ever bulks up, he'll be even more intimidating.

[EricinVirginia]

Just wanted to drop a note that the BOB is still performing perfectly. Last weekend we did a camp out. It was a gorgeous high of 58, leaves falling. Temps overnight dropped to 31. You could hardly tell. Is there anything better than cool fall evening with a blazing campfire?

[EricinVirginia]

Have added a harmonica to the BOB. Have also added potassium permanganate and glyercine to FAK...

So, there we were watching Man, Woman, Wild and they bust out glycerine and potassium permanganate. It was in the guy's FAK and he noted that each have properties for first aid, but when mixed together, they burn hot enough to ignite and start a fire. My wife turned to me and said, "Wow, that's kind of cool. I wonder how you get that." Thanks to our good friends at United Nuclear, we had the Potassium Permang and I scrounged around and found some lotion with just enough glycerine in it to make smoke.

From Wiki for KMnO4... "Disinfectant and water treatment. As an oxidant, potassium permanganate can act as a antiseptic. For example, dilute solutions are used to treat canker sores (ulcers), disinfectant for the hands and treatment for mild pompholyx, dermatitis,[4][5] and fungal infections of the hands or feet.[6] Potassium permanganate, obtainable at pool supply stores, is used in rural areas to remove iron and hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell) from well and waste water. Historically it was used to disinfect drinking water.[7][8] It currently finds application in the control of nuisance organisms such as Zebra mussels in fresh water collection and treatment systems.[9]"

My personal observations: This will stain anything wet a deep permanent purple. It's intense. Don't let it touch anything you don't want to stain. United Nuclear sells this, but it's restricted to 16 oz per year. You can however buy the exact same stuff from fish pond vendors on the web as a water treatment.

Glycerine from Wiki... "Topical pure or nearly pure glycerol is an effective treatment for psoriasis, burns, bites, cuts, rashes, bedsores, and calluses. It can be used orally to eliminate halitosis, as it is a contact bacterial desiccant. The same property makes it very helpful with periodontal disease; it penetrates biofilm quickly and eliminates bacterial colonies."

My personal observations: If you look for this, good luck. All the major stores say they sell it... and they do, as rectal suppositories. I've been to Target no fewer than 5x now to special order it and damned if they still haven't gotten it right. The problem with the suppositories is their fragility. They'd never last in a BOB's FAK. Most pharmacies will say they have it, realize they don't, offer to special order it, and then get suppositories. You want a 4 oz bottle because when you get it that way, it won't leak after being opened and glycerine is very very easy to have leak everywhere. Also, common lotions, sunscreen, ointments have some level of glyericine... so I'd recommend not storing the KMnO4 next to stuff like that. As an example, if you put sunscreen on and then poured water with KMnO4 in it onto the area, you'll get an unpleasant burning sensation depending on much time has passed. So, far it's been easier to get the KMnO4. Save yourself some time and call ahead, specify you want a bottle of liquid glycerine, not suppositories.


These two items, mixed together, burn with the fury of a 1000 suns. Heck, it gets hot enough to ignite thermite so there you have it. So, I submit these two items for consideration in a FAK and in a pinch, fire-making. 4 oz of each will go a very long way if you practice good firemaking skills. KMnO4 when mixed with normal lotion, as an example will smolder and generate heat, not enough to ignite anything, but enough that if you had just put lotion on your hands and then dumbly touched KMnO4 powder, you'd regret it.

A quick websearch will show you a lot of different uses for FAK, soap making, etc.

[EricinVirginia]

New Year's day hike... logged 15.5 miles. Funny people you meet at 8 am on New Year's Day. It felt good to start the new year that way. C&O Canal along the Potomac River was gorgeous.

Take care everyone.

[ForgeCorvus]

Is this what you were looking for
http://www.chemistdirect.net/

EDIT. The link doesn't seem to work, search for " Glycerin Bp"

2nd EDIT
This might be better
http://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Vegetable-Glycerin-Ounces/dp/B000J3Y55O/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1294162982&sr=8-12
Also available in larger sizes, up to 128 oz !

[omega_man]

I bought potassium permanganate and glycerine from amazon. I forget how much $, but 1 lb of pp showed up at the house in a zip lock baggie I also just came home from a trip to wally world and they had 5 oz bottles of glycerine in the pharmacy area. I was taught the fire making trick during a sere course in okinawa and had forgotten about it until my girlfriend and I were watching man, woman, wild - were she had the same reaction, "cool".

Does anyone know how to get potassium permanganate stains off of kitchen counters? I could be in some trouble.

[EricinVirginia]

Hey Omega,

A quick web search brings up lemon juice and several industrial chemicals. Give it a shot. The lemon juice fades it to a light brown if applied quickly enough. Otherwise, you might want try a different approach.

clean the kitchen when spouse isn't around... "Honey, what the hell is this stain? I swear I'm busting my hump to get this place looking awesome for you... do you have any idea what this is? Cranberry juice?!"

[omega_man]

Hey Omega,


clean the kitchen when spouse isn't around... "Honey, what the hell is this stain? I swear I'm busting my hump to get this place looking awesome for you... do you have any idea what this is? Cranberry juice?!"

HA! That's my alibi and I'm stickin' to it. Besides, I would never play alchemist in the kitchen while she's at work and I'm still on Christmas break.
Seriously, though, bleach and steel wool toned it down to a mere faded coffee stain. Plus 1 for renting I guess.

[EricinVirginia]

Just some quick updates... I still need to do more with the KMnSO4 but life gets in the way. If you get some, you need quite a lot and need to hold the liquid glycerin with the KMnSO4... you need a bit more of each than you might think. When it's really cold, the glycerin gels up and it'll take a while for heat to build up. Try mixing it all together and don't let the glycerin run off the powder.

_________________________________________________

On a different note, my wife got me a cool new backpack for normal hikes. My BOB is a bit intense and, while the reaction of other walkers is amusing, there are times when you don't want end of day looks, supplies, or appearances. Plus, Eli had an Oakley pack in "Book of Eli". As such, she grabbed this for me...

Oakely Kitchen Sink Backpack...


I went for my first trek with this Saturday afternoon, after the Central Maryland meet and greet. When first encountered by this pack, I was struck by how rugged and durable it feels. It feels like it'd survive the end of the world. It has some fun features too.
-Water and abrasion resistant.
- Lots of metal clips act as attach points.
- Wire cabling throuoghout load-bearing seams makes me think this'll last a very long time.
- There is a padded laptop compartment that works great with laptops, but is easily adapted to hydration bags, or other things that lay flat be it clothing or harder items like tools. The padding does a good job.
- Top compartment is about the size of a CD player. It's rigid and I use it for fire/flashlights/gloves.
- There is a front compartment with lots of space and some divider slots for maps, tools, etc.
- The two side pouches are both large enough to hold 3 rolls of duct tape (size ref).
- There is an internal pouch that zips out the bottom. I believe it is intended to hold dirty footwear or clothing inside the backpack, however if you let it all hang out, it doubles the holding capacity of the backpack... albeit in an awkward manner... and the sack itself is not strong like the rest of the bag. Nice feature though.
- There are lots of little pockets built in on the shoulder straps, waist pack, etc. each able to hold a multi-tool sized object.

Here's what is not working with this bag as a BOB.
- Price. For $200 you can find much better SHTF bags.
- All the clips look cool but have almost no utility, at least not that I have found yet. Because they are metal, clipping S-hooks, carabiners, anything to them makes you sound like a traveling tinkerer. Too noisy.
- The waist pack cinches on your waist with velcro. This seems nice, but I'm not a fan of velcro. In humidity and when wet it tends to lose its stickiness. Putting it on the waist belt was stupid.
- The metal grab handle at the very top... on a cold winter day is like fire on the back of your neck. I didn't enjoy it.
- The straps on the side pouches seal with velcro... I don't understand why they did this instead of MOLLE webbing.
- All the cool little pockets seal with velcro.
- Lots of space, but it's all loose, which makes it hard to organize content and keep it in place.

In conclusion, I'd recommend this as a great backpack for stylish daywalkers. It is very comfortable, holds tons of whatever you want to dump in it. If tossing gear into a bag with little thought of organization is your thing, then this is the bag for you. I hiked it 7 miles and found it extremely comfortable (except for the metal grab handle).

[EricinVirginia]

Some fun pics from recent activities...

I finally got into an LDS church bishop storehouse. It reminded me of Costco.


New Year's weekend 15 miler with friend and dog.



Wife winter trekking...


For New Year's, this is what the 5 year old wanted after seeing a shot Blackberry at the gun shop... my TMoble 3G MyTouch volunteered...


She then spent the rest of the night pulling it apart with pliers and asking me what each thing did.

[EricinVirginia]

And finally, I picked up a small Pelican waterproof/crushproof penlight (Nemo 1900) that also supposedly floats. While wandering around, I dropped it, sat on it, threw it against a tree, submerged it in water, and let the dog chew on it for a few seconds.

While the body of the light survived nicely, the light housing did not and water penetrated the o-ring making it not so floatable. Don't get me wrong, it floated - vertically. I'd skip these. Anyone know where to find the headlamps featured in The Cave, or soon next week in the movie Sanctum? Those things last forever, are waterproof to hundreds of feet, last forever, and never burn out.

[smityb]

my main problem with your setup is all the crap hanging off, if i was in a tight situation i would want nothing for my bag to catch on and slow me down from getting away.

[EricinVirginia]

"my main problem... is all the crap..."

Yup... but in a tight situation, I won't want a backpack either... I'll want body armor and a good rifle! Welcome welcome South Africa.

[CipherNameRaVeN]

I re-posted your photos in this some what related thread here viewtopic.php?f=14&t=61969&p=1655083#p1655083. I hope you don't mind.

[EricinVirginia]

Q1 Update on gear and treks:

I got a disturbing message from RedFlareKits.com last night stating that their Potassium Iodide all sold out in less than 3 hrs after the JQuake. I guess my investment in that is now actually an investment...? They won't have new stuff till mid/end of April. Meanwhile, we've done a bunch of stuff since my last update but here goes on all the new stuff.

Ice covered lake with family. One of the dangers of frozen lakes is: 1) as the ice freezes it lifts up. Because it's not supported on anything it's actually more fragile than were it lying directly on mud or the water. Think of it as being extra brittle. The safest ice to walk on if you have to is the stuff that look pastel gray. White, brown, crackled up ice should be avoided. You can use a walking stick to slowly apply pressure on the ice where you're going to step; don't whack it. Also, if you see plants or anything at all sticking out of the ice, these are probably weak spots as well. 2) It's quite slippery even with a rough surface. Be careful.




Family hike and playing with slingshots and trees and rivers... the slingshot was a bit beyond the 5 yr old, but the 9 year old finally loves it.








Family camping to Cove... yeah, I took the family back. They saw the windapocalypse pics and wanted to give it a shot. Temps ranged from 41 to 55, overcast, and wind gusts up to 30 mph. We compensated with an extra large fire. Everything was actually really fun but while we were there, we had some struggles. For one, I really need someone to explain the ins and outs of fishing to me. I have 4 rods for the family. It took me about 45 min to get them set up and I stopped with only 2 figuring the kids could share. The plan was to toss them out, let the kids play with the casting, and then leave them. I would sneak back and put toys on the hooks. Instead, rod#1 first cast everything came undone. Rod#2 was fine until the kids started casting... after 3 casts, the line had wrapped all around the rod, the reel, their hands... it was AMAZING. I should have taken a picture of it; like some weird fishing rod spiderman attacked their hands. It lasted 5 mins and then they were all done. This strongly proves the adage that just because you have gear doesn't mean you'll be able to use it, at all.

[BullOnParade]

Okay Eric, can you do me a favor? Can you change the name of this thread? Every time you do an update and this thread pops to the top of my post list, I have to remind myself that I'm not clicking in order to help a noob, I'm clicking to be subjected to your amazing BOB and become jealous of how often/how far you go out hiking on a regular basis. I love the thread, but I think your BOB has evolved well beyond noob status, and is now misleading.

[EricinVirginia]

My BOB thanks you. I keep finding gaps in the BOB... I'd hardly call it amazing. This region is planning on an AT or state forest hike over 3 days next month. I'm going to hammock it and see if/how I can pull the entire thing off with just the BOB.

[EricinVirginia]

Okay, this weekend I'm going to be experimenting with some new gear and ideas.
- Brunton Expedition All Fuel Stove... I picked up 2 of these from Sportsmansguide. Except for the fuel tank, it compacts down to the size of a large softball. The idea here is that you can use ANY kind of liquid fuel in it with 4 oz equalling enough fuel for cooking for 1 day for 1 person. I'm going to test out gasoline, coleman white gas, and diesel this weekend in the backyard.
- REI Women's Crestail Backpack... we used the REI members' sale to buy this and try it out for Ry. It looks cool. It's lightweight. It seems like it'd be all win. It's not. The backpack itself is just a giant void in the middle with token dividers. The divider straps tangle anything you put into it. Unless you commit to buying the smallest lightest weight sleeping bag you can conceive (most colder weather bags are not small enough), even with compression packs, it's impossible to fit a micro 40 degree bag into this without consuming the entire inside. Also, the picture shows lots of places for lashing things down... and it's all backpack material that might hold small lightweight stuff. I'd put this backpack firmly in the daypacker category... hardly the backcountry crowd it's marketed to. We took it back without even field testing it. At the $230 price tag, there are better options. The top pack/hood on most of these detaches to allow you to wear it like a fanny pack/E&E pouch. This one does not. It's just for show. Sure, you can put stuff in it, but it just sort of flops around and makes it really difficult to access the gaping interior from the top.

[EricinVirginia]

Brunton Vapor AF (All Fuel) Stove. Decent Youtube video introducing the AF stove...
- Amazon $120
- Sportsmansguide special $99
- REI $180+

I first spied this in REI and was intrigued so when SG offered it for $99, I bought 2. I just charged it up and gave it a test. Before I get into this too much, let me start off by saying that this is one product where you really really want to test this out before taking it into the field. It took me a good hour to figure out how to prime it and get it to work. The instructions are mostly safety warnings, with very little in the way of how you'd actually use the AF stove for anything.

Why it's cool:
- Small, about the size of a softball (excluding the fuel canister)
- Light, about 0.4 lbs (excluding the fuel canister)
- Supposedly uses any kind of liquid fuel, noting car gas, jet fuel, deisel, kerosene, white gas... "and many others". To me, for ZS/TEOTAWKI, this is the ultimate stove.... if true. The ability to use any kind of fuel makes this awesome compared to any other stove out there.
- Uses gas gas, like butane by swapping out the connectors. I think it'll work with propane too, but I'm not seeing how yet.
- It advertises that 4 oz a day (off a 20 oz included fuel bottle) will provide cooking for 1 person for 1 day. As of right now, this boiled 5 cups of water in about 4.5 min... in the comfort of my kitchen with no wind.
- You can leave the pump/assembly in the fuel bottle for use later without doing anything special. Just disconnect from the stove, pack it up, and off you go. You only need to release the line pressure.

Issues from first test:
- Priming in wind is going to be a problem. They provide a foil windscreen as part of the kit, which is thoughtful. All stoves requiring priming struggle with wind however.
- You need to follow the instructions, go to Youtube, ask someone who's done it first how this works. The instructions aren't clear. I imagine that after not using this for a while, it'd be hard to remember as well.
- Like a kerosene heater, you can light this inside, but you shouldn't it. It's smoky and gives off fumes and lots of carbon monoxide. I got a bit lightheaded during the flare up.
- When running on high output, this thing sounds like a rocket engine.

So, the process broken down for unleaded car gasoline.
- Put 20 oz of fuel in canister.
- Screw in the pump/assembly.
- There's a valve on the assembly with a + and - symbol. Make sure it's off, on the minus sign.
- Pump it about 20x, or until there's enough pressure to hold the pump about an 1" out from the base. This 1" appears to be the correct pressure since there's no indicator and the instructions don't say.
- On the assembly valve turn it all the way to the + side.
- Put the circular disk (diffuser) on the stove... it doesn't work without it.
- On the actual stove there is another valve with similar markings. Turn this just barely on for like 2 seconds... fuel will spray all over the burner cup. This is how you prime it.
- Light it on fire. The fuel splash will burn and hopefully heat the assembly unit up enough that it'll feel warm to your touch. If it doesn't feel warm, it's not primed. Do it again until you touch it and think, "K, that's hot." Depending on the fuel type and how much you "prime" with, you can get quite the fireball.
- Now, do it again but before the primer fuel burns out (the wind might make this complicated) turn the fuel on with the stove valve. When you get a rocket engine sound, or if it's dark and you see blue flame, you'll have it.

On 20 pumps or so, the stove boiled 5 cups of water in 4.5 min at medium setting and has been burning at mediumish for about an hour now. It's burning right next to me as I type this. From picking up the bottle, I'd guess that about 30% of the fuel by weight is gone. I've learned that it's better to underpump... try 10 pumps for priming, it's easy to pump up the pressure later once the stove is lit. I'll come back and edit the burn time on 20 pumps when it finally stops burning.

Unpacked, except for the fuel canister (20 fluid ounces), the entire thing is about the size of a softball and rugged enough I'm not worried about it getting crushed in a backpack.


Priming this easily creates a flare up. There's a process to the priming I'll explain later.


When working... it's quite the stove. Rocket engine sound, gorgeous flame... and off gasoline no less.


The stove is quite sturdy unlike a lot of backpacking stoves, this opens up about 7" in diameter and feels quite sturdy. I wouldn't stand on it, but I'd trust a full sized cooking pot to it anyday. The stabilizing fins have holes for spikes if you want to anchor it in the dirt too, which is a nice touch.

[CipherNameRaVeN]

Okay Eric, can you do me a favor? Can you change the name of this thread? Every time you do an update and this thread pops to the top of my post list, I have to remind myself that I'm not clicking in order to help a noob, I'm clicking to be subjected to your amazing BOB and become jealous of how often/how far you go out hiking on a regular basis. I love the thread, but I think your BOB has evolved well beyond noob status, and is now misleading.

+1
I second that. Change the name, dude. It's confusing.
Make it "Eric's epic thread" or something.

[mega-hertz]

i concur doctor.