Bushcraft Basics: How to ruck [& too many inspiration pics]

[maldon007]

Holly shit Blackdog, what kind of camera do you use? The resolution is so clear it almost hurts my eyes to look at your pics!!

I was thinking the depth of field was out of hand on most of those... awesome stuff.

[xxxDarksidexxx]

sealegs - EXCELLENT POST!!! lots of great info! please post more pics, i love seeing the places some of you other guys hike!

Holly shit Blackdog, what kind of camera do you use? The resolution is so clear it almost hurts my eyes to look at your pics!!

I was thinking the depth of field was out of hand on most of those... awesome stuff.

i have also wondered what type of 4,000.00 camera he uses...

his pics are always amazing. some of the pics look CG as they are so full of color and detail!

[Blackdog]

Holly shit Blackdog, what kind of camera do you use? The resolution is so clear it almost hurts my eyes to look at your pics!!

Ha, you never see the half assed unfocused pics of my fingers or my dogs butt. I am fairly new to digital photography and this is my first dig cam. For a while after my last film camera bit the dust I would snag my wifes camera (until she got tired of it coming back coated in sand) and a lot of the older pics were taken with that one. After a while I broke down and got a last years model closeout on a Panasonic DMZ-TZ4 (now with even more lens scratching and dents). $4000.00, not even close, I for sure don't like to sink a lot of cash into electonic gear that I am pretty sure will stop working or become so obsolete you are out of business. That said I am pretty pleased with the camera but miss a view finder and wish it ran on AA batts. A lot of the pics I took in Iceland have that kind of hurts the eyes look and I can only give credit to the lighting because my little button and menu skills are really lame, I just leave it on auto and shoot.

Back to hiking, the Iceland trek was a true layering fest. I would go from T-shit to wind shirt to insulation to everything in my pack and back to a T-shit within a few hours, amazing change in conditions and the wind was really hooting up on the ice.

[Gullars]

Excellent post! Got a few notes and photo`s of my own experience!

Why hike?

Does anything beat it, I mean it is the real thing! It might be tireing, but it feels good when you arraive to that spesific area/lake/mountain you had in mind! Roll yourself in to a sleepingbag with dry cloths on is hard to beat! Its also an excellent way to get in shape, you get to use muscles you didnt know you had!


Boots:

Probably the moast important gear! Put some money into shooes! When I was student & poor, I used to hike in some old Army Boots! Worked great, if you spent enough time to impregnate them! As I get a bit older and start earning money I changed them out in some Gortex shooes. I will never look back! Its nice to be dry on your feets! Getting wett on your feets while hiking is really irritating! Wett feets and heavy backpack will quickly give you painfull feets! And with that the hike will become missrable!

Socks:

Wool socks and thermal socks is the only thing that works for me! Dont hike in cotton socks! Good thing with wool is that even doh its soaking wett, it will still isolate about 60% of the heat!

Tape:

I always bring "sports tape" , same thing as athletes use! Works great for blisters etc!

Rucksack:

Learn to pack correctly! There are many discussions of this topic. I personally like to pack the heaviest in the bottom! This way I have more balance! Having the top of my pack swinging around have gotten me into some spookie situtations before! So spent some time when packing! Learn your pack, how to adjust it to your height and body shape! If you use your pack once or twice pr year, you can buy anything. But if you going to use it for a little more hiking, put some money into it and test out a few!

Clothes:

Long John`s , upper and under should ALWAYS be in your pack, not the thermo stuff but proper WOOL 100%! I am pretty sure this stuff have saved peoples live! If you are in the mountains, something that can take some rain and that is Windproof is a must!

Breaks:

Are we there yet? Have breaks, not to short, not that long that your muscles go cold! Have some trailmix in your jacket! Boosts you up!

Hydration:

I like bringing a canteen and lately I bought a hydration bladder! If you are not in the best of shape like me, a bit fat! You need to drink more water than a regular person! I found the hydration bladder helped me a lot there! Made me able to drink more, and more often! You can be dehydrated without detecting! This again will make you more tired and more likely to get you closer to accidents! Keep it in mind, its very easy to forget to drink!

Sun: Protect yourself as you would on the beach! Remember snow will reflect the sun! Also I belive the radiation from the sun on higher elevation is stronger! I might be wrong!

Wildlife: Not many predators in Norway, that it is in US and Canada! However you should never mess with male moose and red deer in the authum! They can be pretty kranky! Enjoy the wildlife, dont interfeer with it! Ticks are my biggest concern when in woodland area`s! Always check your self before bedtime! On your head, behind your ears, neck, armpits and further south! Ticks like where you have thin skin! Moast ticks are harmless, but there are some with poison that could make you very sick! I even seen cases of people who have been paralysed for life! Use a pinsett if you get on you! Its the headpart that is closest to your skin that is the dangerous part! If you get a black sircle around it, seek doctor ASAP, you will need anti biotics!

Terrain & Orienteering:

Learn how to read the map. With this you can make a "photo" of the area you going into! Look for objects that you can use navigation. Like a Peak, a small lake, a massive stone! Certain shaped valley etc! If you dont know how to use a map & compass. Just take a course! Dont relay on GPS, I do have one with me on my hikes just in case but I prefeer map & compass!

Other things. Carry Firstaid kit and know how to use it, carry a signal mirror and a whistle! Bring 2-3 big black garbagebags! Belive it or not, they can save your life if you need an emergency shelter!

Now lets see if I can get theese photos to work!

[Sealegs]

What I've learned from destroying allot of rucksacks:

I won't even try to tell people "what the bestest pack is" but instead I'll share what I look for in a pack and what things have broken for me in the past. Not saying you can't get good mileage our of a front loaded zipper maze. I will say that I still use old surplus sacks, I mod them as best I can and take them out. You might even say I collect rucks, however I wouldn't take them out for a 3 week no contact hike in a national park. I'm too comfortable for that.


This is an old pack. At the end of this you will notice some key things that are missing. Some things are great about it though. So great that you'd be hard pressed to find modern packs that have the same features and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. This is top notch 1984 tech.

IMHO the computation on equipment is as follows:
The more you know the less you need.
The less you use the more you work.

You decide for yourself what kind of features you need, nobody can tell you you don't need something or you need another thing. Just be mindful that carrying something to avoid discomfort sometimes adds weight to the pack. And leaving something out because you can bushcraft it, will leave you with the chore of actually doing it, when you arrive tired and cursing at what will become your camp site. There are no easy short cuts to deciding what is best for you, but luckily the fun is in the trying.

So, what do I use my packs for? I like long hikes. 11 days or more. Sometimes three weeks. During this time I live out of my ruck. Wash my clothes in it, sit on it, warm my feet in it, rappel it, wade fords with it etc. I've had to repair many things in the field and the most annoying ones ended up with me avoiding packs that had those featureas all together. So here goes.


One big sack. My favorite kind. You only have one place to look for gear, one place to put it. Easy to empty out on the ground and large enough to aid you in field chores.

What I avoid because it always breaks:
- Cheap plastic buckles.
With cheap I mean thin, rattling and made from frail non bending plastic that will shatter in deep cold.
- Zippers.
Many people have never had a zipper break on them. Ever. I've had to sew shut a broken zipper on a front loaded pack in the middle of a storm. Which brings me to..
- Front loaded packs.
If you use stuff sacks, getting to whatever you have in the bottom of the pack is not difficult enough to warrant having a vulnerability like that. The people who like them are usually inept at packing. [Yes, I'm prejudiced.]
- Non-removable lids.
Why wouldn't you make a pack with a removable lid? Because you know it will fail before anyone would have to replace it. That's why. Also, a removable lid allows for over packing by raising the lid and putting top preassure on the over load. A fixed lid gives a skewed preassure, moving the balance point out from your shoulder blades.
- Bolted frames.
If the frame has some kind of rivets, bolts or nuts in it. I'd be inspecting it extra carefully. Welded or one piece frames are hard to find though.
- Flimsy dividers.
If you absolutely want a pack with dividers or such. Avoid flimsy or "soft" nylon/fabric inside. With soft I mean non coarse. It is usually far less rip stop/durable. I can't count the packs that has failed because some tent peg or pointy thing made a little hole in the nylon.
- Mesh side pockets.
Yes, I liked them too. I'd rather have a pocked made out of 1kD nylon though. Less shit that can snag it. Got caught on a train cart door in Praag w. one and after that I just cut the flopping rag that was left off.
- Sliding, plastic shit in the carry system.
I had a Haglöfs carry system that broke down on me while crossing Greenland. I cannot tell you how much physical discomfort I had from that. I learned to not care about wether a carry system is difficult to adjust though. A pack is a personal piece of equipment, it doesn't matter if it takes 15 minutes to adjust the depth of the hip/shoulder points, when it's done it's done. The less moving parts and the less PLASTIC you have in this the better IMO.
- Non reinforced pack bottoms.
Every time you take your pack off, the bottom part of it makes contact with whatever you put it down on. If you plan on using your pack allot, start looking at it from the bottom up.

I'm sure I will beef this up when I remember more catastrophic fails.


Metal straps. If I could get them made from diamonds I would. Or better yet, old chewing gum taken from bus stops. The hardest most tenacious substance known to man.

Things I just plain don't want/need in a pack/included are things you should have:
Some things don't fit me, or I just don't seem the point. I will try and defend my opinions as best I can. YMMV.

- No sternum strap?
I mean seriously, if I spend money on a ruck to carry weight in, I wan't to at least have the option of keeping my shoulders from falling off. If it doesn't have this, it's either pre 90's or a "fashion bag" intended for savant suits riding their €2k bicycles to work w. goretex socks and black spandex pants. OK, yes, they annoy me.
- Sewed in shoulder/hip straps
This just makes me rage. Am I buying a ruck for carrying books to school or to haul everything with me into the national park in dep winter? They'll still make you pay out of your ass for that pack though. Try sewing one back on w. your sewing kit. I dare you!
- Zippers all over.
By now it's obvious I'm a zipper hater. You can sew a button back on or even make a new one out of cordage or wood. You'd have to have a new self healing zipper (which I still dont trust) or carry a special zipper repairing thingy. Good to go if you're not too far out from civilization and have a tube of super glue to make it close temporarily if it fidgets. Not for me though.
- Too many pockets
Pockets are nice, but it's not a fashion bag I'm buying to go hiking. If I want some stuff in a separate enclosure I'll stuff a folder/pocket/bag in the sack containing them. Pockets on a bag leads to two things in general. Snagging and things getting lost. If you don't use your pack with great regularity then you won't know by heart the contents of all your pockets. You'd need a little list to check it. This doesn't cut it in the woods. It just don't. You are better off having everything in one big sack, separated into easily identifiable stuff sacks. You can even label them, or use clear plastic bags.
- No side pockets?
I mean seriously. Why wouldn't you want them? My favorite items for the side pockets are denaturated spirits for the alky burner in one, and a big 2l water bottle in the other. For starters. This allows to keep the water easily accessible on a break for cooking, and the ethanol outside of the pack in case of leakage. If you don't need them, just take them off or strap them to the body of the pack all flat like. Better to have and not need. Seriously.
- Repelling options
If you go out in the mountains you might need this. One often over looked side effect of having this is that it makes it comparably easier to hang the pack on a tree. Klemheist knot + carabiner to pack. Then fasten the hip strap around the tree and you have a fixed item location tree, out of the grass and at a handy working height. Clearly visible.

Klemheist, imagine you put it around the tree instead of the rope.
http://www.animatedknots.com/klemheist/index.php

I'll add more here too.


Things should be manageable even if you have gloves on. Chances are you will. Nature doesn't care if you can get to your shelter with warm fingers. That part is up to you.

When you try a ruck out, do it with different clothes on. Outer shell, warm sweater, t-shirt at a minimum. Also, think about what kind of pants/belt you use and how the hip belt can accommodate those.
- Pay special attention to the way the shoulder straps ride around your arm pits. You do not want bunched up fabric there. So if you can't adapt the straps to allow you to smooth out your clothes and keep them from riding up while carrying the bag. Well, try another pack w. a bit of a different load carrying system and see if it makes a difference.

There is a special boon for backpackers that time and evolution of packs has bestowed upon us. The "load stabilization strap". Simply a strap that runs from your shoulder straps back to your pack, about at ear level. Allowing you to pull the pack closer to your shoulders/neck or ease it back.

When you walk up-hill, you want the pack close, to keep from walking hunched over. When walking down-hill, you loosen the straps and allow the pack to, once again, let you walk more upright by moving the center of gravity in the pack. I can only say that I almost wept the day I got a pack with this feature. Wept.

If you want a serious winter pack, you want alpine sled rings. These are located on your carrier belt and should be made out of metal. Sadly not all of them are. This is just my bad experience with plastic POS equipment failing on me. Granted, I've had a metal shoulder-strap cinch plate break in half, so that ain't exactly fool proof either. Nothing really is with Murphy around

I'll add to this when I have time and have settled down from all the rage induced by memories of pack failure.

[JoeTosco]

Holly shit Blackdog, what kind of camera do you use? The resolution is so clear it almost hurts my eyes to look at your pics!!

True!

[JoeTosco]

Nice pic with the Springer Gullars!

[ninja-elbow]

What are some good ways to keep the crotch cool and dry? Been working on this one recently. So far, we have:

1) Powders of various brands (mine being Gold Bond).
2) Underwear of various kinds that help (mine being microfiber undies of various brands and styles)
3) Unzipping your pants and letting the air flow.

Personally, I like to give it a good wipe down at the end of the day, whenever I can, with a wash clothe and hot/cold water. Sitting in a cool creek is good too but only available in my area July-September when the creeks aren't painfully cold.

Wipe down, powder and change the skivvies is all I do now. This goes for the feet too.

[Confucius]

What are some good ways to keep the crotch cool and dry? Been working on this one recently. So far, we have:

1) Powders of various brands (mine being Gold Bond).
2) Underwear of various kinds that help (mine being microfiber undies of various brands and styles)
3) Unzipping your pants and letting the air flow.

Personally, I like to give it a good wipe down at the end of the day, whenever I can, with a wash clothe and hot/cold water. Sitting in a cool creek is good too but only available in my area July-September when the creeks aren't painfully cold.

Wipe down, powder and change the skivvies is all I do now. This goes for the feet too.

There's a brand of boxer-briefs I get at Walmart of all places. I forget the brand name (Dry-star, stay-dri, something like that, they come three to a pack for like $4), and they are absolutely great at keeping a crotch un-swampified. Something to consider.

[Chef]

I've found that the simplest way to eliminate the bunching, chafing, and heat buildup underwear causes is to simply eliminate underwear from the equation.

Admittedly, I've never hauled a ruck through foot-deep snow, but I suspect that the base layer long johns necessary for cold weather don't bunch up like tighty whiteys or boxers.

[Blackdog]

One of my favorite places to trek is the Great American Southwest, the nice thing about a lot of this area is that it is drop dead gorgeous and you can walk for many days with out seeing another person.

Most often we think of the desert as being hot and dry but sometimes it's cold and dry which can add an additional kink to your usual problem of finding water. In the winter what little water there is can be frozen. In this pic you can see my water seep resupply point in the shadow frozen to the wall. One more step to getting a drink.



The terrain may be rough but water is in fact fairly plentiful in many of the canyons in the SW, just take care to have a real good Idea where your next water top off point is and carry plenty in case it doesn't work out and plan B takes effect. As a gear note I have a nalgen bottle wrapped in cord for dropping into water points so I dont have to bust a leg getting to water I can't easily reach.

Around where water is in regular supply is also where you can find some interesting things.



The corn in this pic has most likely been there for 800 years or so, the folks that lived there then probably knew a thing or two.







Bottom line is navigation can be hard or easy. If you are running a canyon kind of hard to get too lost but finding entry and exit points can take some doing as can over land desert travel and canyon intersections. Take care with navigation, watch your water and if you are in a canyon during rain season and the water starts rising, beat it, like right now and get high.

On another trip I was running a canyon when a storm rolled thru, the sun was still up and no sight of rain but the water started running a little harder. I got out Ok but had to spend the next couple of days 40 miles or so from a paved road waiting for a road crew to fix a wash out. Flash floods are nothing to screw with.



If your preferred method of water cleaning is a filter make sure and carry a spare element or a cleanable filter, much of the water is gritty. Also don't keep all your water in one container in case there is a mishap, I once manged to break the cap on a water bladder (thru being a knuckle head in addition to it being quite cold). No real harm as I had a couple of other containers to see me thru. I find a filter works well in the desert as when you do hit water you will want to drink some now instead of waiting for water tabs to take effect.

On one trip I ran into a SAR team on a rescue mission. Some young folks had clogged up their filter and instead of drinking the water "raw" decided to get dehydrated and fall out and then send one stout member for rescue. I guess the lesson is to go ahead and drink the water and possibly be sick later instead of risking death today.

[Jeriah]

I've found that the simplest way to eliminate the bunching, chafing, and heat buildup underwear causes is to simply eliminate underwear from the equation.

I've heard of plenty of folk who like this solution. Personally, I find that it makes it worse: nothing to absorb the sweat, and relatively rougher pants fabric (and seams) on my junk. But enough people have told me they like it that I'd advise everyone to at least try it, see if it works for you.

[Jamie]

I've done some distance walks with loads before, and found that underarmor boxer briefs work very well for me to prevent fatty thigh-chaffing and such...

Jamie - nfa

[Sealegs]

On Chafing of the groin - Infantry Fire.
There really are allot of different strategies to go about it. I did the "DanCon" 100km march wearing bicycle pants and covered in liberal amounts of issue skin balm. It worked but I wouldn't exactly call it field efficient.

I think it's one of those try everything and find the method that works for your physique, AO, clothes etc.

Either go:
- Dry
Using baby powder, plenty of hygiene and clothes with lots of air flow. If you sweat allot, changing boxers when you stop for a break can do wonders. As stated, when you feel it, it's too late.

- Slippery
I've only rarely used this and mostly when I've already wound up with infantry fire, to soother the searing burn until camp can be reached. Using any skin balm or other slippery skin product to reduce friction. Oil based, otherwise it won't last long when riding around in a sweaty high friction area.

Underwear:
Depending on weather this may or may not be dictated by cold.

- Loose
My preferred. Loose fitting boxers. Incidentally the army issue boxers. Allows for airflow while not being of a poor fit or prone to bunching.

- Snug
Keeping the gear in check might be preferred if you go up/down hill allot. Be mindful of proper fit so you don't have to stop and adjust the "load carrying system".

With thermals you might be stuck with the snug, but the cold will make sweating less of a problem. Provided you adapt your clothing. I say less, because hauling a ruck will make you sweat regardless of weather, provided you don't have a medical glandular condition and are doing it right.

The advice I'd liked to have had:
1. Go with powder and apply on breaks.
2. Don't skimp on underwear.
3. Don't try the shaving + oily trick. Ever. [Srsly, if someone advises this, look the other way and pretend you didn't hear them.]
4. Wash. often. [Hands,feet and crotch. Often.]
5. Try every method until you find one that works. [Yes, I'd even suggest trying a kilt if it's a problem.]
6. If it happens to you, STOP. Immediately. [Just pitch our tent wherever you are and adjust plans to fit recuperation.]
7. Deet, permethrin etc. will make your pants sweatier.

Some of them are obviously not useable from a military point of view, but this is civvy rucking. Also, "SEAL's don't wear skivvies!" So if you're going it commando, you're in good company.

Edited because I thought I wrote it..
Taking time to find quality underwear that works for you is time and money well spend. [the No. 2 tip]. Proper fit will go along way to letting you apply your strategy of choice, be it loose, snug, try or slippery or any combination.

[ninja-elbow]

I've found that the simplest way to eliminate the bunching, chafing, and heat buildup underwear causes is to simply eliminate underwear from the equation.

I've heard of plenty of folk who like this solution. Personally, I find that it makes it worse: nothing to absorb the sweat, and relatively rougher pants fabric (and seams) on my junk. But enough people have told me they like it that I'd advise everyone to at least try it, see if it works for you.

I tried commando before and it only ended with me getting an abrasion on "the helmet" from the inside of my pants after walking a few miles. It's part of my impetus to get something that holds a bit better.

In that mission, UA boxer briefs were my first purchase and I found my ex-power-lifter thighs were to big and the waist band of the UA briefs was too loose. My big-ass legs would actually pull down the briefs as I walked. What I needed were technical boxer briefs with wider legs and smaller waist - not available. This is why I tried out sport briefs.

Sport briefs have been working for a few years but just this summer I realized they were getting up into my crotch pits (where leg meets balls basically) and starting to chaffe there. Technical sport briefs are OK as they took the moisture being produced and moved it out but cotton ones are now being tossed out. I can barely stand them at the office let alone out in the woods.

Now trying some other boxers (looser) - I know, TMI and drama.

[Jeriah]

Better to get out there and do shit for real, even if that just means a pleasant little walk in the woods, and talk about our chaffed balls, than sit in comfort at home and speculate about "what bullet will get me to 1000 yards."

[Sealegs]

Seems I've forgotten one of the bestest hiking tips of all times. Though in all fairness, I'm assuming everyone does this so maybe I'll just make myself look stupid by offering it.

When setting out:
1. Walk 15 minutes.
2. Stop.
3. Adjust gear.
4. Repeat as needed.

Can save you chafing, off balance loads etc.

[Chef]

I'm constantly adjusting/tweaking while I'm on the move, I don't bother stopping.

[Sealegs]

I'm constantly adjusting/tweaking while I'm on the move, I don't bother stopping.

This is preferred, but for beginners or when hiking in a company I think a pre determined first day equipment adjusting period is the best. It allows the "old foxes" to help the beginners with the finer points of adjusting clothing and rucks. I'm environmentally damaged from work, I know.

[sigboy40]

If your preferred method of water cleaning is a filter make sure and carry a spare element or a cleanable filter, much of the water is gritty. Also don't keep all your water in one container in case there is a mishap, I once manged to break the cap on a water bladder (thru being a knuckle head in addition to it being quite cold). No real harm as I had a couple of other containers to see me thru. I find a filter works well in the desert as when you do hit water you will want to drink some now instead of waiting for water tabs to take effect.

I normally have 3-4 containers on me when hiking the SouthWest. Simply because you can't count on water to be at yuor resupply points. But I also prefilter, and sometimes I will use a 3 liter soft Nalgene canteen to pull out water and allow it to settle before filtering.

[Blackdog]

If your preferred method of water cleaning is a filter make sure and carry a spare element or a cleanable filter, much of the water is gritty. Also don't keep all your water in one container in case there is a mishap, I once manged to break the cap on a water bladder (thru being a knuckle head in addition to it being quite cold). No real harm as I had a couple of other containers to see me thru. I find a filter works well in the desert as when you do hit water you will want to drink some now instead of waiting for water tabs to take effect.

I normally have 3-4 containers on me when hiking the SouthWest. Simply because you can't count on water to be at yuor resupply points. But I also prefilter, and sometimes I will use a 3 liter soft Nalgene canteen to pull out water and allow it to settle before filtering.

You got that right, %100 planning on your next water supply being there is a big no go. I normally carry a dromedary bag and 3 other hard containers along with a couple of flexable stow aways just for this reason. Even with a coffee filter I find that a filter can clog up after several days of getting water out of some of those canyons, this is the big reason I went with a Katadyn Pocket filter. Somewhere deep in the heart of Utah is a Nalgene that I lost so you have to keep the fumble finger factor in mind also (I don't loose things often or have a long string of equipment failures but it happens).

Several years ago I used a flexable platypus water bottle which was a failure. I stepped on the cap on one trip and it cracked (and like a dumpling head I didn't notice and dribbled water across Utah) and later on the bottom seam sprung a leak (thank you duct tape). I don't know if the seam thing was common to this model of bottle or a fluke but bottom line: don't put all you eggs in one basket. I also like to keep several gallons of water in the truck as I can be pretty dry when I get back out.

Just for yucks, where you at in these pics? Starting to think I might hit Big Bend early next year but still in the early I got to get out of here for a while stage of planning.

[sigboy40]

These are all of Palo Duro Canyon, I did an 18 mile overnight for the Sept GHB challenge. I would like to get down to Big Bend as well, maybe this fall I will be able to do it.

[ninja-elbow]

Sigboy makes a great point - one that I failed at summer 2009 with one of my hikes. I only carried 2 Nalgene bottles with me thinking it would be enough for my over-nighter with plenty of water sources. I spent most of the trip filtering and purifying water every hour it seemed.

Now, standard in my pack is 2 1 litre bottles, 2 litre bladder and a spare 2 bladder I fill at camp - plus I got a folding bucket for up to 10 more litres of water sitting around camp I can use for a bunch of things like washing and later purification. This is also going to get upgraded, I can assure you that.

[Sealegs]

Sigboy makes a great point - one that I failed at summer 2009 with one of my hikes. I only carried 2 Nalgene bottles with me thinking it would be enough for my over-nighter with plenty of water sources. I spent most of the trip filtering and purifying water every hour it seemed.

Now, standard in my pack is 2 1 litre bottles, 2 litre bladder and a spare 2 bladder I fill at camp - plus I got a folding bucket for up to 10 more litres of water sitting around camp I can use for a bunch of things like washing and later purification. This is also going to get upgraded, I can assure you that.

If you don't have allot of bladder or professional type inflatable bottles around you can compress a normal 1.5 or 2ltr bottle several times before it breaks. This is depending on the plastic in the bottle and it's regional what brands use what kind. So try a few out if you go this route. Find a "sort" of bottle that you get good mileage out of.



This bottle has been compacted 15 times as a test.



Inflated and filled it holds slightly less than in new condition since the preassure needed to stretch it to original state is higher than my foot can acomplish. Still practical to pop a compressed one or two down the bottom of your pack if water sources should prove scarcer than planned. [Cheap and likes to improvise.. Yeah I'm a redneck.]