Walking Dead Weapons

[Bearshrimp]

Hey, I just watched episodes 1 and 2 of “Walking Dead” last night and I am super stoked to chat about making dead things deader! Unfortunately my wife hates zombies (?!) so I can only watch episodes that I have recorded when she is out at Zumba and the kids are in bed, anyway…

On the firearms board I noticed some resistance to talking about the guns used by the characters on the show so I figured I would start a new topic here to discuss the pros, cons and “realism” of the weapons used by the characters.

At the beginning the lead character uses a Python (I think) revolver in .357 magnum which makes sense as a county Sheriff. I know most of the urban/suburban police officers around here (Seattle) use auto loading pistols, but I have seen deputies where I live (east Pierce County) caring Pythons and even Blackhawks so that seems realistic.

When he gets trapped in the tank and lifts the Beretta off of the (un)dead GI, he does not find any spare magazines? I know they want to force the point that he has limited resources, but shouldn’t there be tons of 9mmP in that tank? I will also be interested to see if he keeps that Beretta considering it’s probably a better sidearm for the PAW.

I have seen a few comments complaining about the number of shotguns present. Why is a pump action shotgun a bad option for the survivors?

One thing that I think is unrealistic is that with all the military hardware scattered around like HMMWVs, Bell UH-1s (National Guard?) and even a Tank (not an M1, maybe a M48 with an M1 turret, kind of looks like a UK Chieftain with a 105mm L7 gun, note the fume extractor ). So where are all the firearms? The (un)dead guy in the tank had an M9, but there should be M16s, M249s and M9s all over the place. Did the scavengers take all the firearms (and all the ejected brass) but leave everything else?

Anyway, I will post more as more comes to me. Just hard to believe that all the pricy hardware would be ditched (I assume out of gas?) but every gun would be taken.

[raptor]

This thread discusses the revolver in the TV show.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=72948


As for other weapons. It is a TV and weapon availability, variety and reliability are subject to the writer's need for plot complications and drama.

[Dutch253]

Hey, I just watched episodes 1 and 2 of “Walking Dead” last night and I am super stoked to chat about making dead things deader! Unfortunately my wife hates zombies (?!) so I can only watch episodes that I have recorded when she is out at Zumba and the kids are in bed, anyway…

On the firearms board I noticed some resistance to talking about the guns used by the characters on the show so I figured I would start a new topic here to discuss the pros, cons and “realism” of the weapons used by the characters.

At the beginning the lead character uses a Python (I think) revolver in .357 magnum which makes sense as a county Sheriff. I know most of the urban/suburban police officers around here (Seattle) use auto loading pistols, but I have seen deputies where I live (east Pierce County) caring Pythons and even Blackhawks so that seems realistic.

When he gets trapped in the tank and lifts the Beretta off of the (un)dead GI, he does not find any spare magazines? I know they want to force the point that he has limited resources, but shouldn’t there be tons of 9mmP in that tank? I will also be interested to see if he keeps that Beretta considering it’s probably a better sidearm for the PAW.

I have seen a few comments complaining about the number of shotguns present. Why is a pump action shotgun a bad option for the survivors?

One thing that I think is unrealistic is that with all the military hardware scattered around like HMMWVs, Bell UH-1s (National Guard?) and even a Tank (not an M1, maybe a M48 with an M1 turret, kind of looks like a UK Chieftain with a 105mm L7 gun, note the fume extractor ). So where are all the firearms? The (un)dead guy in the tank had an M9, but there should be M16s, M249s and M9s all over the place. Did the scavengers take all the firearms (and all the ejected brass) but leave everything else?

Anyway, I will post more as more comes to me. Just hard to believe that all the pricy hardware would be ditched (I assume out of gas?) but every gun would be taken.

Welcome! Typically a soldier would only have a few magazines of 9mm the tank wouldn't be stocked with it. In the tank you would have ammo for the big gun. As for the colt python, whatever floats your boat I guess, I'm a glock guy myself. I think the amount of shotguns is probably accurate, you are right about the lack of expended brass though, didn't notice till you mentioned it.

[Velociryan]

Well, let's see. First, are you aware that this is a fictional television show and not a perfect documentation of every detail that would exist in this made up world. Second, this fictional world is written by television writers, not by mercenary wanna be's, basement commando's, or mall ninja's.

[Dutch253]

Well, let's see. First, are you aware that this is a fictional television show and not a perfect documentation of every detail that would exist in this made up world. Second, this fictional world is written by television writers, not by mercenary wanna be's, basement commando's, or mall ninja's.

What???!!?!?!!?!? Oh my god! I thought this entire thing was a documentary based on actual events that happened!

[Jeriah]

Well, let's see. First, are you aware that this is a fictional television show and not a perfect documentation of every detail that would exist in this made up world. Second, this fictional world is written by television writers, not by mercenary wanna be's, basement commando's, or mall ninja's.

What???!!?!?!!?!? Oh my god! I thought this entire thing was a documentary based on actual events that happened!

Nope, it's made up. Rest assured, in real life the ground will be littered with small arms and ammunition, free for the taking.

[Dutch253]

Next you're going to try to tell me that zombies don't actually exist!

[Bearshrimp]

Well, let's see. First, are you aware that this is a fictional television show and not a perfect documentation of every detail that would exist in this made up world. Second, this fictional world is written by television writers, not by mercenary wanna be's, basement commando's, or mall ninja's.

Yes, I know it is a fictional show. Just thought it would be fun to chat about the different ways the writers (or prop folks) could have interpreted the fantasy world. It’s ok if you don’t want to play that game, just don’t rag on us mercenary wanna be's, basement commando's, or mall ninja's (I always thought of myself as more of an arm chair general).

Remember, if you don’t have anything nice to say then…

[Jeriah]

Next you're going to try to tell me that zombies don't actually exist!

But then what are you going to shoot all the free guns and ammo at?

Oh yeah, right. Russians and Cubans. Unless now it's the Chinese and North Koreans?

[Kelvar]

Well, let's see. First, are you aware that this is a fictional television show and not a perfect documentation of every detail that would exist in this made up world. Second, this fictional world is written by television writers, not by mercenary wanna be's, basement commando's, or mall ninja's.

What???!!?!?!!?!? Oh my god! I thought this entire thing was a documentary based on actual events that happened!

Nope, it's made up. Rest assured, in real life the ground will be littered with small arms and ammunition, free for the taking.

[Pinkmist]

Why is the shotgun a bad option for the survivors? It depends. Generally speaking a shotgun isn't all that much to write home about as a weapon. The shotgun is kind of like a Swiss army knife, you can use it for lots of tasks but it doesn't do the job as well as a purpose built tool. For fighting, a shotgun generally is considered good for 30 meters and under. This may vary on a number of factors like ammo, barrel length, choke, etc. But at 100 meters a standard home defense type shotgun isn't much use and past that it is next to useless. Also the ammo is heavy and bulky so you can't carry the same number of rounds that you could with a rifle or a pistol. With a shotgun I might arm myself up to the teeth with like 50-100 rounds, with a rifle you could do 200-300.
On the other hand for beginners and people who have experience with firearms limited to hunting, a shotgun might be perfect. The spread of the shot will increase hit probability Also considering we are talking about zombies which are only really dangerous at close range one of the main weakness of the shotgun is less of a factor. Combine that with the shotgun's ability to literally with out exaggeration "blow your head off", which is important when you have to destroy the brain, and we have a respectable weapon.

Where did all the small arms and spent shell casings go? The military may not have as many individual weapons as you might assume. I remember reading during the beginning of the war in Iraq about US army soldiers (tankers specifically) using captured AK-47's because there were not enough M-16's to go around. The most powerful military on the planet engaging in a planned invasion didn't have enough rifles ready to go to arm their troops. They probably had enough some where in some armory but they didn't have them where they needed them. Now imagine dead people get up and start attacking the living. And everybody in a uniform wants a rifle RFN, ever grunt, every clerk, every driver, etc. You might find yourself with a surprising shortage of small arms due to loss, theft, etc.
As far as the spent brass that could be just an oversight. Or it could still be there but scattered away from where it originally fell. The areas they are in are full of walkers right? Why do they call them walkers? Because they constantly wander around and possibly may have scattered any spent brass with they shambling. Plus the effects of wind and rain = no particularly visible shell casings.

[AUA]

First, I'm going to warn you about the later episodes, because they end up kind of going sideways in terms of quality. Just IMO.

As you've noted (and based on just how wrong I've been), the Python is within the realm of reason. A number of people have a problem with taking that gun into the PAW, as opposed to the Glocks used by most of the other deputies/officers, and for the most part, the Python is a status symbol; that's why he violates Rule #1 virtually every time there's a dispute, because "he's holding the stainless .357", and "the law will be upheld", at least in Rick logic.

I'm not .mil and am probably going to get chewed out for this, but I don't think that there'd be all that many 9x19 Beretta mags. The Beretta is a PDW, in the sense that combat is secondary; a tank crew's primary purpose is to man the tank, and they don't exactly have room to fit standard-issue rifles in there (perhaps not even the 10" CQB M4A1 variant, considering the space inside and ammunition). When they evacuate out of a tank, it means that something pretty serious has happened, and the Beretta is only there to help them reach friendly lines (in the same way that an M9 works in a flight survival kit?). Although it was a bit odd that at least three of the mag pouches seemed to be handgun-mag sized (if the soldier had both AR and M9 mags, then maybe he wasn't even a tank crew member at all). Rick checked the vest rig and didn't find anything but the M67, so I suppose that they were all used.

Again, any .mil users need to put me in my place if I'm wrong on any count.

People take issue with the 12 Gauge because basically, it's inefficient. Cartridge for cartridge, the 12 Gauge offers less range and equivalent amounts of firepower (in terms of brain-busting) compared to a rifle, and the ammunition takes up more space on top of that. Buckshot will limit most people to "whites of their eyes" range, and slugs don't offer any significant advantage in terms of accuracy compared to a rifle (it would seem to be more of a compromise between a rifle and shotgun). It doesn't mean that it's not effective at killing things, because it is. It's just not the ideal tool for the job. Any of the military rifles laying around would make for a better option (hell, one of the survivors they encountered "got acquainted" with the AR platform for that purpose, and his background never involved a firearm, which throws the "survivor familiarity" argument out for the most part). However, they have what they have, and they might as well make the best of it. A zombie with buckshot in its head is as dead as a zombie with a .223, .22, .308, or 9mm caliber hole in its head.

You have to take into account looting when you're looking at weapons laying around. Sure, there would probably be lots of weaponry laying around, and you might want to acquire one of your own; but that's exactly what most other people would be thinking. If you show up late to the fire sale, you don't get the product. Rick showed up REALLY late, and the rest of the survivors probably didn't go looking for trouble after seeing SHTF. Rick changes this, but that's another issue.

If my memory serves, you should have seen Rick stow the M9 in Glenn's backpack after he used all fifteen rounds. Without spoiling anything, it's still a Chekov's gun.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Walking_ ... _Series%29

I'm going to warn you that there are spoilers on the page, but you can use the Table of Contents listing in case you want to check for a particular firearm later on.

[Bearshrimp]

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Walking_Dead%2C_The_%28TV_Series%29

I'm going to warn you that there are spoilers on the page, but you can use the Table of Contents listing in case you want to check for a particular firearm later on.

Oh !%$#!$%

Of coures Merle would be the one with the Hi-Power !

[Asolfr]

Where is all the casings, the truth of the situation?

Cost.

with the the guns its easy to get replicas or real ones from the studio armory or rent from a shop.
new casings cost me $30 for 100 (averaged), so to supply 10's of thousands of casings would cost $1000's of dollars, that would not add much to the show in the end for the average Non-prep. so as a way to save money... no casings

or a bunch of ZS'ers went and took them all for re-loading before rick showed up.

[ultra magnus]

Where is all the casings, the truth of the situation?

Cost.

with the the guns its easy to get replicas or real ones from the studio armory or rent from a shop.
new casings cost me $30 for 100 (averaged), so to supply 10's of thousands of casings would cost $1000's of dollars, that would not add much to the show in the end for the average Non-prep. so as a way to save money... no casings

or a bunch of ZS'ers went and took them all for re-loading before rick showed up.

All you would need is a couple thousand steel case cases. Paint tem to look like brass. Dump them for whatever scene you need. Use a magnet to pick them back up and put in a bucket for the next scene. For big shots use CG just like they do for zombies and almost everything else in the big shots.

[Rhep]

After a few months of laying in the street exposed to the elements with zombies shambling around the cases would probably be spread out quite a bit.

[MVegas]

In the opening episode they did a better job. I specifically remember thinking "Hey! They bothered to dress the set with empty brass all over the floor!" In front of the double doors where the NG (we must assume) had penned in a bunch of walkers.

I do think it comes down to budget. On TV, you secure most of your viewership in the first half of the opening episode of a new show.
That's why the following 5 didn't feel as well put together as the opener.
Now that they've done really well with it, and been handed a bunch of scratch and a full season order (12-14 episodes) I think season 2 is going to look and feel more like the opener.

[Bearshrimp]

It wasn’t just the lack of brass, the equipment looked to “clean” the hummers for example, looked spotless. There were burnt out cars and busses everywhere, but the military vehicles looked good as new.

I also can’t figure out why a couple months after the PZA decent weapons are in such short supply. Who has all the ex-military guns? The walkers wouldn’t need them and given the general carnage, I don’t think there is much of a military left.

Warning, I am entering ubergeek mode officially now!

Put it this way, if say 99% of the population is dead (walking or otherwise) that that would leave about 54,000 survivors in the Atlanta metro area. From the depiction in the series that seems optimistic but let’s say it’s accurate for the sake of argument.

That means all the firearms at Fort McPherson and Fort Gillem should be around in addition to NAS Atlanta, Dobbins AFB and the GANG armory in Douglasville. Add to that all the firearms located in all the metro police departments and sherifs offices and there are a lot of military grade weapons around.

Finally, assuming that the ATF stats are correct about 30% of all US households contain 1 or more firearms. Assuming GA meets that figure (GA probably beats it actually) and each household only has 1 firearm (conservative estimate) that would mean metro Atlanta would have approximately 410,000 privately owned firearms as well.

So, rather than guns being a limited resource, every survivor should have access to a virtual arsenal with about 9 civilian, and who knows how many military & LE guns, per survivor.

[AUA]

Those figures assume that every person, geographically, has equal access to those firearms and ammunition, and that there is no competition/demand for firearms that are equidistant to different survivors/survivor groups.

The fact of the matter is, the military and police armories are going to, at minimum, have a keypad entry. Rick doesn't have a magical combination that works for every keypad in every PD throughout the US (although the show might have you believe that). In order to get into themselves, you either have to know the combination, or blast your way inside (improbable).

Most of those firearms, the "one or more per household", are probably handguns and/or hunting rifles or shotguns, similar to the ones used by the survivors. There are many AR/AK/SKS/etc users, of course, but we can somewhat safely assume that they bugged out/in and managed to survive (making their firearms excluded from the "free" pool). The "gang" armory is definitely off-limits for as long as they can continue to piss lead at oncoming enemies, that's for sure, and their weapons would be far from ideal (if we pigeonhole them and say that they have a preference to using MAC 10/11s, Uzis, or TEC-9s; even without that, they're probably not thinking in terms of effectiveness so much as volume of fire/availability). The military and police would be likely to barricade themselves in sturdy structures like rational people would, which further complicates their weapons' placement (I'm pretty sure no self-respecting commander would have military personnel used like expendable cannon fodder as shown in the CDC exterior, especially since they had a freaking auto-barricade function in the CDC building itself).

Those ATF stats don't reflect the country proportionally; some areas of the US have very high concentrations of firearms (i.e Alaskan counties), while others have relatively low concentrations. The guns in Atlanta aren't spread out equally among the area, which means that however you cut it, you're still taking a chance in trying to find a firearm just laying around.

Going back to the ATF stats, even if we have 410,000 firearms in the metro Atlanta area, those firearms are unequally spread out over 630 square miles. That's ~3,326,400 square feet, not including upper and lower floors of buildings (like skyscrapers, or basement levels that may be used by would-be survivors to escape a horde). That's a lot of space to cover, and you'd have absolutely no idea where the firearms are concentrated (they would be highly concentrated near killed survivor bands, in very specific locations, even among the police and military personnel; no one would be just standing in the middle of a street, firing their weapons into a horde that literally outnumbers their ammunition count several dozen times over).

The military hardware should have been more worn, yeah, but it really boils down to budget, like the brass. They probably drove those vehicles right off the lot and onto the set, and never intended to pay for washing/refinishing them after using them.

[NX02GT]

Where did all the small arms and spent shell casings go? The military may not have as many individual weapons as you might assume. I remember reading during the beginning of the war in Iraq about US army soldiers (tankers specifically) using captured AK-47's because there were not enough M-16's to go around. The most powerful military on the planet engaging in a planned invasion didn't have enough rifles ready to go to arm their troops. .

Tankers don't need rifles, nor do they have space inside to take them. Yes, some guys get boned because not every supply troop scored amazingly on the ASVAB, and not everything always goes as planned, but every guy that NEEDS a rifle had one.

It wasn’t just the lack of brass, the equipment looked to “clean” the hummers for example, looked spotless. There were burnt out cars and busses everywhere, but the military vehicles looked good as new.

That means all the firearms at Fort McPherson and Fort Gillem should be around in addition to NAS Atlanta, Dobbins AFB and the GANG armory in Douglasville. Add to that all the firearms located in all the metro police departments and sherifs offices and there are a lot of military grade weapons around.

Finally, assuming that the ATF stats are correct about 30% of all US households contain 1 or more firearms. Assuming GA meets that figure (GA probably beats it actually) and each household only has 1 firearm (conservative estimate) that would mean metro Atlanta would have approximately 410,000 privately owned firearms as well.

So, rather than guns being a limited resource, every survivor should have access to a virtual arsenal with about 9 civilian, and who knows how many military & LE guns, per survivor.

Maybe the military showed up after things got super bad in that area? We keep our crap clean when we are at home. Heck, in Florida we practically washed the paint off of our jets. I for one, especially if I was a civilian would probably not go snooping around a military base, so maybe they just can't get in the arsenal/ armory/ SP shack at the base. I agree there would be plenty, but its not like they are running thin on ammo or weapons int he show as it is.

[Asolfr]

Where is all the casings, the truth of the situation?

Cost.

with the the guns its easy to get replicas or real ones from the studio armory or rent from a shop.
new casings cost me $30 for 100 (averaged), so to supply 10's of thousands of casings would cost $1000's of dollars, that would not add much to the show in the end for the average Non-prep. so as a way to save money... no casings

or a bunch of ZS'ers went and took them all for re-loading before rick showed up.

All you would need is a couple thousand steel case cases. Paint tem to look like brass. Dump them for whatever scene you need. Use a magnet to pick them back up and put in a bucket for the next scene. For big shots use CG just like they do for zombies and almost everything else in the big shots.

that id a GREAT idea. should email the director and tell him.

[Asolfr]

I dont think they really get "into" the city. i think they relly are just skirting the outer edges.

you know, trying to find what you can withour getting into the main area. and most of the police, and military would be there.

when rick gets into the tank, there's only one tank there, a coupl corners with Heavy MG, i really doubt that's all the military would have put in position in a population center that big.

also the 99% dead is only at the outbreak, right, since it has been 2 months since the global outbreak (via doc #5) many more would be dead, evacuated. of course that also would raise the number of walkers.

i did the math for my area, there are approx. 24000 in the city and rurals here, (10 miles from city center) at the 9/10 idea that leaves 2400 competeing for the few stores and supplies the town has, but that also puts in upwards of 21,600 dead, even if you say 50% reanimation rate (zeds) your looking at 10800 zeds. for a small community thats crazy lots. (i need to stock up more) but if you're looking at an area like atlanta, ... well what we see in the episodes is only a minute percent of the total zombies. even if you figure 50% rate, but its probably more like 95% or more change rate

[silentpoet]

Well, let's see. First, are you aware that this is a fictional television show and not a perfect documentation of every detail that would exist in this made up world. Second, this fictional world is written by television writers, not by mercenary wanna be's, basement commando's, or mall ninja's.

What???!!?!?!!?!? Oh my god! I thought this entire thing was a documentary based on actual events that happened!

Nope, it's made up. Rest assured, in real life the ground will be littered with small arms and ammunition, free for the taking.

What about first aid kits to raise your HP?

[-Jason-]

I am mall ninja enough to notice the guy had 40mm pouches on his armor so it could explain why Rick only found the M9 if you care that much....

Spoilers.



When they go to the CDC their are M4s all over the place.