Bushcraft Basics: Water from Snow

[the_alias]

Has been a while since managed to do a Bushcraft Basics - and apologies, this one is super basic BUT I do recall seeing a thread about melting snow and burning the pan so maybe it helps someone!

The snow has fallen and you are hiking/bugging out etc. You are running low on water and no stream appears to be in sight. Time to melt snow!

Ideal equipment.

The most important part is to make use of some of the remaining water you have. Put it in your pot! This is important. Put it on the heat and now gather some snow.


I gather in my millbank bag, but you could use anything.


Add it a bit at a time to the heating water and stir it! Don't add too much, you need it to melt in the water. Too much and that can't happen.


Mash it up and stir it as it melts this helps.

Repeat until you have warm drinking water; purify and enjoy.

But I have no water
Not to worry you just need to be careful and make sure to shake!

Put a little bit of snow and shake it over the fire you have going.


Repeat as necessary!

There are other ways to get water if you didn't have a metal pot you could heat, say only a water bottle.
You could use a sock or scarf and suspend it near the fire you have and have it drip into your water bottle.
Here is an example of what I mean using my millbank bag, I found it important to wet the side and add some water inside to help the process, in all honesty I'm not convinced the millbank is entirely the best for this task...more experimentation required.


You could also make a finnish marshmallow - think that is what they are called. Take a stick and compact snow around it - depends a bit on the type of snow you have imo. The snow I was dealing with wasn't compacting easily so I've saved that for another time.

Hope you enjoyed this rather basic basics

[Chef]

Cool demo!

It's always interesting to see how important technique is, even with seemingly simple operations like melting ice to get water.

[Sealegs]

W. a fire melting water is a bit of a proximity game.
- Stuff pot or kettle full of snow. Put close enough to warm but not burn.
- Stuff neckerchief or mosquito net w snow and hang above pot but not above fire. [nonsensical sentence]

Millbank filter = awesomeness.

Filtering the melt water before it goes into boiling is more convenient than filtering after you've boiled. That is, unless you like finding rabbit turds in your food.

Awesome post!

[the_alias]

Good stuff Sealegs - I feel obliged to add the water is going to taste smoky from the kerchief/millbank methods

The other part of this exercise for me was good winter fire practice.

[Ad'lan]

Not just a camping skill, many places in the uk had mains Water freeze. Knowing how to melt snow is a useful skill in that situation. If we get a good snow, the principles alias outlines apply to using an electric kettle too (must have enough water too cover the element).

Got anything for using body heat Dom? I've heard a few different methods.

[Woods Walker]

I prefer to melt in the cook pot and use my bandanna to filter out any floaters (pine needles, leaf litter and once vole droppings) as the water is dumped into another container. Some bandannas will leach out ink. Soaking in hot water is a good way to check for this. Melting Ice gives more water than fluffy snow but snow is almost always easier to find around camp at night.

Great thread.

[lonewolf15002000]

Melting Ice gives more water than fluffy snow but snow is almost always easier to find around camp at night.

That reminds me of something I just heard on the news a week or so back. "For every 1 inch of rain that falls it equals 10 inches of snow." This might be something you want to keep in mind if your planning on surviving with snow as your source of water. Your going to have to fill your canteen cup quite a few times with snow before you have a full cup of water, and don't forget about losing some of your water due to evaporation so it isn't going to be exactly 10 inches of snow will equal 1 inch of water.

[ninja-elbow]

I think a good practice to take up is to bring a larger billy can type thing with you when going out into the snow - like a large coffee can with a wire on it. I think this becasue as my kit stands now I have 2 water bottles (Nalgene), JetBoil kit and a GSI stainless steel nesting cup. That billy can will add a whole new dimension and allow me to melt more snow/ice at a lower temp and keep the other stuff in their arena.

[quazi]

Got anything for using body heat Dom? I've heard a few different methods.

What kind of methods have you heard about? Both of my experiments with using body heat didn't work out so well.

First I tried filling a large nalgene bottle (48 oz IIRC) with snow, which I compacted slightly. I carried the bottle tucked inside my armpit, outside my polypropylene base layer and an uninsulated nylon vest, but inside my parka. I walked around like that for about an hour. When I came back inside the snow had not appeared to have melted at all, and the volume appeared to be about the same.

Later I tried using a gallon ziplock freezer bag, which I filled somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 full, and I didn't compact the snow at all. I wore the same clothes and again tucked the snow into my armpit. I was outside for about three hours, the first half of which I spent walking and the second half sitting. When I got back inside the snow was noticeably wetter and had shrunk in volume, but there were only trace amounts of liquid water.

I did these tests in very cold weather, -30s and -40s Fahrenheit. Melting snow with body heat would probably work better if the snow itself was warmer, but I haven't experimented with that.

[KnightoftheRoc]

That Millbank filter bag looks really interesting- do you have a source I can check out for those?
Good thread idea- as "simple" as melting snow for water seems, it has always amazed me a bit at how many ways there are to screw it up. This is a good "basic training" topic to have up, especially now that winter is here for so many of us.

[the_alias]

Got anything for using body heat Dom? I've heard a few different methods.

Quazi had some good info on it not working so I decided to give it a shot of a theory I had.


This was loosely filled with snow and put between my vest and t-shirt. Then the hoody then the woolen hippy coat thing.



It was deff melting after an hour quick paced hiking, certainly not the best option but I think it can work...

more to come later have to run now...

[Sealegs]

It was deff melting after an hour quick paced hiking, certainly not the best option but I think it can work...

more to come later have to run now...

I think the main argument against using body heat is that ice will sap your own heat, and make you need more water because of it. I haven't seen any numbers but from what they taught us it was presumably bad energy/water economics. You are better off keeping already melted snow from freezing with your body heat. [Or so I'm taught at least]

[the_alias]

It was deff melting after an hour quick paced hiking, certainly not the best option but I think it can work...

more to come later have to run now...

I think the main argument against using body heat is that ice will sap your own heat, and make you need more water because of it. I haven't seen any numbers but from what they taught us it was presumably bad energy/water economics. You are better off keeping already melted snow from freezing with your body heat. [Or so I'm taught at least]

Yeah this is what I wanted to write about but had to run. I think it isn't worth it overall...which is odd as some , what I would consider, reputable survival books talk about it...

I think if you wanted grey water and are walking it might not be a bad option, otherwise just take the time to build a fire to aid the process.

[the_alias]

"For every 1 inch of rain that falls it equals 10 inches of snow."

Ok I just finished a brief experiment.

I filled my millbank to the brim with snow, I didn't pack it down at all just shaking it and filling. Then left it to melt in warm room.

The bag produced about just under half a litre of water 400ml maybe a bit more. Around 16fl Oz I think.

The millbank bag is capable of holding about 4litres of water.
400ml is about a tenth so that is a rough ratio. Seems to make sense as a super general rule, lightly packed snow produces 10th capacity.

[lonewolf15002000]

"For every 1 inch of rain that falls it equals 10 inches of snow."

Ok I just finished a brief experiment.

Thanks for testing it out. Seeing how here in the PNW (at least where I am) it is raining I had no way of testing this. With out driving a few hours to find snow that is.

[madwolf]

Another good, painless way to make water from snow, if you live somewhere where there is actual sun in the winter, is to put a bunch of snow into a black trash bag and leave it in the sun. You are packing a trash bag, aren't you? They have many uses, particularly in the winter.

As a general rule of thumb, as mentioned earlier, snow to water yield is a 10:1 ratio. 10oz of snow to 1oz of water gained. This does vary depending on the water content of the snow. High rockies=dry powder, about 10:1. Great lakes? You'll get a decent bit more water out of the wet, heavy packing snow. Not sure how much though.

[allofthemonkeys]

Another trick is when you have drank about 1/4th of your water, then stuff your bottle with clean snow. Shake until melted. Repeat when needed. This way you can continue moving and not have to stop and bust out the stove.

[Gullars]

Excellent tread! I really enjoy them!

If I may give a suggestion! If possible, try to use more ice than snow! I think snow is between 80-90 air/oksygen, and rest is water! While with ice, its the opposite! Takes a bit longer time to melt! Just an suggestion from my own experience! Only problem with ice is that it tend to contain bits and pieces so be carefull before you drink!

[survivor#23]

I see a lot of good routes to take already in discussion to say the least. Another way I retrieve water is to pack clean socks with snow and hang them over a pot with a fire burning. Almost any water purification system at your local outdoors store will do the job. For a more faster way to purify you can by sanitizing tablets, the only downfall is the water has to meet a certain quality standard.

[marktaff]

Excellent tread! I really enjoy them!

If I may give a suggestion! If possible, try to use more ice than snow! I think snow is between 80-90 air/oksygen, and rest is water! While with ice, its the opposite! Takes a bit longer time to melt! Just an suggestion from my own experience! Only problem with ice is that it tend to contain bits and pieces so be carefull before you drink!

Snow and ice are both the solid phase of water. Equal masses of snow and ice at equal temperatures and pressures, will contain the same number of water molecules, and will require the same amount of heat to change phase to a liquid.

The primary reason the ice appears to take longer to melt is because an equal volume of ice contains far more water than the same volume of snow. Similar to how one cup of water will boil faster than 10 cups of water will, ceteris paribus. Another factor is due to the open structure of snow, it has a far greater surface area than an equally massive block of ice. So if you melt snow with a bit of water, the water acts as a heat exchanger, carrying the heat from the fire (via the pot) to all the surfaces of the snow crystals it is in contact with.

I'd have to go back and check my chemistry, but I suspect that hydrogen bonding between the liquid water and snow might provide a bit of heat to help the snow melt, as well.