Venomous snakes

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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby tool133 » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:28 pm

Here is something from the Penna. Fish Commission. This came in handy quite a few times when I worked for the railroad.
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This chart shows distinguishing features common to all pit vipers, not just the species native to PA.


As far as copperheads having a smell, I've uncovered a den that had no distinguishing odor, and an interesting tidbit: black rat snakes eat copperheads and timber rattlers. If you think there may be some poisonous snakes in an area you dont want them to be in, introduce a few black rat snakes to thin out the population. As long as there isnt a great deal of other food, the black snakes will eventually move on after their food supply is gone.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby TAB » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:34 am

One of the coolest snakes I ever caught was in NY when I was in the 5th grade. It was solid black and its body kept coming from the brush I was watching it exit from, and coming, and coming... an Indigo Snake, it was longer than me. I'd never seen one before! It tried to bite me when I picked it up, but my grip was not quite back far enough behind its head for it to succeed; it tried both sides, turning its head to the right after trying to bite me to the left. They are not poisonous, but I remember feeling totally relieved, as I was a child very proud of my snake catching skills. A bite would have meant failure even though I knew it was non-poisonous.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby TAB » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:38 am

grand94jeep wrote:
USMCSergeant wrote:... I never sensed a cucumber smell around a copperhead...


That's odd. Almost every snake I encounter, is accompanied by this weird "shit" smell. :shock:


Almost every wild Garter Snake I ever picked up put out a shitty smelling liquid. It's a defense against prey animals -- who wants to eat somebody that smells and tastes like a shitty?

I wonder if it is just a coincidence that Garter Snakes and Skunks both are black with three white stripes... and they both use a stinky liquid defense... I think they are related. Maybe zebras... nah! :wink:
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:24 pm

TAB wrote:One of the coolest snakes I ever caught was in NY when I was in the 5th grade. It was solid black and its body kept coming from the brush I was watching it exit from, and coming, and coming... an Indigo Snake, it was longer than me. I'd never seen one before! It tried to bite me when I picked it up, but my grip was not quite back far enough behind its head for it to succeed; it tried both sides, turning its head to the right after trying to bite me to the left. They are not poisonous, but I remember feeling totally relieved, as I was a child very proud of my snake catching skills. A bite would have meant failure even though I knew it was non-poisonous.

TAB.

I don’t think the Eastern Indigo snake’s range includes NY State. Maybe what you seen all those years ago may have seen was a Black Rat snake or possibly a Black Racer. Both can grow rather large but the Black Rat snake can be nearly 8 feet. Here are some photos of a Black Rat snake that I ran into a few years ago. I am no herpetologist so naturally could be mistaken in my identification.

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Almost every wild Garter Snake I ever picked up put out a shitty smelling liquid

Yup that happened to me last week when showing a Garter snake to my nephew.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby Evan the Diplomat » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:27 pm

Good ID WW.

That is the Eastern Black Rat snake. The white "stripes" are the give away. The Black Racer is all black and more of a matte finish.

The stripes are not actually white scales but is the dermis under the black scales peeking out.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby Baba Brad » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:41 pm

Went hiking the Sam Houston Forest, north of Houston, about 2 years ago. Did my 5 miles in and was turning around to go back. After about 25 feet, I heard this loud 'buzzing' sound and the hair on the back of my neck stood up. It was a rather large (thick as my forearm to boot) rattlesnake. I'm thinking Timber Rattler, but not 100% sure. Have the pictures on my comp at home. Beautiful snake, just letting me know I was too close for his comfort.

Earlier that year I came across a pig nose snake. Lying belly up, looking dead. Found out that's one of the tricks they use to deter predators. That stinking up the place with a foul smelling musk.

My daughter and I use 'snake sticks' when walking. Just hiking poles, but if the path is unclear we use them to stir the path ahead and to the sides and flush out any snakes that might be there. Or at least give us warning that there is a snake there.

On a side note, my wife has an aunt that was bit on the bum by a Russell's Viper while she was using the latrine late one night. The snake somehow found itself in the poop pit and when the poor woman took her squat, the snake bit her. Everyone that stills has primitive facilities at the beach now shine lights in to the latrines. Curiously, everyone has a real house now. (This happened in a place called Kihim on India's West Coast.)
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:06 am

Night of the Rattler. :mrgreen:

I was hiking with my friend and uncle about 60-miles south from my last Timber Rattler run-in on the AT looking to do some gear testing and had a little surprise. We got a late start and didn’t make elevation until dark and still had a 4-mile night hike. The area is familiar so warned everyone that there was a potential for snakes. We were hiking single file in the dark and then heard my uncle yell snake, turned around and discovered this bundle of joy behind me. These photos were done on the fly at night so the quality isn’t my best.

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Judging from the location of the snake when first seen I could of walked within 6-12 inches of it. My friend also past by without knowing though my uncle stopped dead in his tracks as clearly he wasn’t going to walk within inches of a rattlesnake. The snake then moved back into the cover and promptly followed the trail for about 6-10 feet.

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The rattler proceeded to cross in front of me and headed uphill into the brush. I really didn’t have any place to maneuver with unknown terrain below on the left, people behind me and higher ledge off to the right. Despite remaining motionless as most of the group walked very near it picked up speed once the snake realized the gig was up so to speak.

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I was on the lookout for any risks like roots, unstable rocks and yes even snakes though perhaps the comradely of friends and family allowed a lapse of attention. I still don’t fully understand why we both nearly walked on the snake. Granted it was night and headlamps can only do so much, the snake’s breakup camo seems to fool the eye but still I was on point and clearly failed to provide warning. :oops: We got up to the ridgeline 20 minutes later and my friend was a little on edge. There is absolutely no shame in this. Come to think of it I was feeling a bit out of touch with my environment.

My buddy wasn't a happy camper.

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We still had miles of night hike ahead and I wasn’t going to make the same mistake twice. Like the last Timber I seen in Mass this one didn’t provide any warning which was rather unsettling however nor did it act aggressive though once aware it started to rattle. It rattled into the night as it moved off. Betting the Timber would have hit if trampled but the fault would have been mine alone. I dropped the pace down to about .75 of a mile per hour using my hiking sticks to poke at thick brush along the trail. No other snakes made an appearance during the rest of the night hike but everyone was tricked a few times by sticks and roots. We didn’t make camp until nearly 12 am.

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I took point again on the way out and a few miles from the original encounter found yet another rattler just off the trail. This one had a bit different markings and was maybe a little shorter though such judgments are hard to define in the field. In any case daylight sure made spotting these things easier but the breakup pattern was still effective as it took pointing the snake out before everyone actually seen it.

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This snake became agitated much faster and started to rattle so naturally we kept our distance. The rattler took up a defensive position which it never moved from. Seems they hold their ground to some degree.

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Things to consider.

1. Nature is neither for nor against anyone. It doesn’t care if you get crushed under a fallen tree, swept away in a flood, subjected to bugs or snakes nor if you have a fun time in camp.

2. Modify your plans in accordance with consideration number one. We turned all the headlamps on high and everyone took extra care looking in all directions. We decided to stop at the next good water though the drought forced us to finish the hike. We used the cell phones to inform family of a possible change of campsite and the reasons why. We turned off the cell phones to conserve battery power if needed to call for help. It may sound melodramatic but one mistake was enough for me and made sure all the ducks were in a row just in case. Nothing in nature is going to care if anyone gets hurt or if we went on our way without anymore issues. Depending on luck alone is for fools.

3. Once again these snakes wanted nothing to do with us and avoided conflict. The snake at night could have easily bitten anyone of us and we would have never seen it. In fact both snakes acted in a totally defensive manner.

4. Night hikes are risky. There is a greater chance of slipping on wet leaf litter, roots or unstable rocks than in the light of day. The odds of unseen encounters with snakes are also increased and so are those of getting lost.

5. There are pros and cons to traveling in a group.


I am guessing that the actual danger felt greater given the psychological aspects of traveling through the woods at night so if this post sounds overdone take it within that context. :lol:
Last edited by Woods Walker on Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby Evan the Diplomat » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:11 am

Baba Brad wrote: On a side note, my wife has an aunt that was bit on the bum by a Russell's Viper while she was using the latrine late one night. The snake somehow found itself in the poop pit and when the poor woman took her squat, the snake bit her. Everyone that stills has primitive facilities at the beach now shine lights in to the latrines. Curiously, everyone has a real house now. (This happened in a place called Kihim on India's West Coast.)


Very interesting and very lucky for your wife's aunt. Depending on the study, Russell's viper is responsible for more human deaths than any other species. It is a relatively small snake and is very comfortable in urban environments where it hunts rodents leading to lots of unplanned human/snake encounters.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby Woods Walker » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:31 pm

I was out and about last weekend looking for a Copperhead as wanted to post some photos here. No luck but found this large Black Rat snake.

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Rat snakes aren't venomous but somehow get the feeling it would bite if handled. It was a good day for a hike just the same.

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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby Evan the Diplomat » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:01 pm

WhoShotJR wrote:
CitizenZ wrote:Most people are bitten by snakes when they step on them.
.



While I know very little about medicine, I can't see what the harm would be in using one of those suction kits to try and remove some of the venom. If you can get even a portion of the venom out, seems it would help. Just so long as one was using it while also getting to medical attention as fast as possible.


Back in the 70s and 80s I was a member of the Washington Herpetological Society and a behind the scenes volunteer at the National Zoos reptile house.

The old razor and suction cup kit has been discredited for the following reasons
1. Regardless of the depth of the bite, you are making more cuts and increasing pathways for envenomation, so don't cut.

2. You've just been bit, once you realise that, your heart starts pumping faster spreading the venom. I've never measured the head pressure on those rubber cups but every zoo keeper and snake breeder I've ever met dismissed them. A better alternative, a large syringe, think Uma Thurman in Pulp Fiction, without the needle.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby doctor patches » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:33 pm

+1 on the baby snakes not being able to control venom when they strike. i've seen babies bite and miss and just pour venom all over, like it was an uncontrollable reflex once they went to strike. i grew up in an area with many rattlers, and i've had the chance to handle (and eat) a few. in the west we have king snakes that eat rattlers.

also, i saw a show on discovery channel called "speed of life" or something to that effect, where they did slow motion shots of very fast events in nature, one of which was a king vs rattler. if you can find it online somewhere, it's a pretty neat show to see. there are other events that they do, broken down into categories. predators, insects, flight, etc.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby xxxDarksidexxx » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:51 pm

great post WW!

had the chance tonight to read through the whole thing. im amazed at how many rettlers you have in your AO. as ive said before, as much as ive walked around my AO ive never seen a rattler in the wild. hope i never do to be honest.

several months back i had a black racer that kept hanging around the house, only about 2-3 ft long, and as you know grow much longer. only problem with this guy is he kept getting in my garage. i was able to get him out a couple times with the broom. one day we came home and opened the garage, and there he was right there be the door going into the house... well he quickly got in behind some boxes.

normally i would have just got him back outside, but the wife knew he had gotten into the garage before, and she ordered me to dispatch him with extreame prejudice. ( used my 1911 BB gun ) :twisted:

i understand the role snakes play, but this guy just wouldnt stay out in the yard. fo some reason he kept getting inside... :?
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby raptor » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:30 pm

Great photos here.

I have never been able to a take a photo of a venomous snake in the wild. I have always been too busy running away screaming like a little girl. :D
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby Woods Walker » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:58 pm

raptor wrote:Great photos here.

I have never been able to a take a photo of a venomous snake in the wild. I have always been too busy running away screaming like a little girl. :D

Sounds like your odds of getting hit are much less than those survival show experts who can’t seem to keep their hands off them. :wink:

xxxDarksidexxx

It would appear the larger predator won that territorial dispute. :lol:
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby East » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:39 pm

I've never seen so many snakes until I moved here to NC! I always like to play with them and found a pretty baby snake this summer...well dumbass me had no idea it was a baby copperhead until my dad walked out and yelled at me to put it the fuck down. I made him get a picture of me holding it first ;) Since then I've come across tons of them (we live WAAYYY out in the country) and quite a few have coiled back in the strike pose when I come near all though none have ever struck at me. The neighbor always shoots them but I can't see hurting them when they're out in their natural habitat just trying to survive. I love the cute red bellied snakes I find around here :)
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby BigBossMan » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:53 pm

East wrote:I've never seen so many snakes until I moved here to NC! I always like to play with them and found a pretty baby snake this summer...well dumbass me had no idea it was a baby copperhead until my dad walked out and yelled at me to put it the fuck down. I made him get a picture of me holding it first ;) Since then I've come across tons of them (we live WAAYYY out in the country) and quite a few have coiled back in the strike pose when I come near all though none have ever struck at me. The neighbor always shoots them but I can't see hurting them when they're out in their natural habitat just trying to survive. I love the cute red bellied snakes I find around here :)


If you start dressing and acting like this, we will need to have a little talk. :P

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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby East » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:45 pm

:lol: I always thought the shorts were kinda sexy ;) If I knew how to post a picture of the copperhead on my hand I would...I think it was just mesmerized by the pink nail polish
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby BigBossMan » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:50 pm

East wrote::lol: I always thought the shorts were kinda sexy ;) If I knew how to post a picture of the copperhead on my hand I would...I think it was just mesmerized by the pink nail polish


Upload it to photobucket, then copy and paste the direct link between image tags.

Code: Select all
[img]PLACE PHOTO URL HERE[/img]


Did you say, "Hold my beer" before you picked the snake up? lol
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby shrapnel » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:54 pm

Yeah, ha ha ha ha funny story, but, seriously, don't pick up snakes. Especially snakes that you are not ABSOLUTELY sure of their species and status as non-venomous.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby East » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:10 pm

I just deleted the link because I'm tired of trying to figure out how to do it *whew* Guess I'm not cool enough to join the Geek Squad!

Did I do it?
Last edited by East on Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby East » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:13 pm

Well shit, I'm so computer illiterate...I don't even know what a url is or even been to photobucket so needless to say the pic didn't show up :roll:
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby NC5thcav » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:16 pm

East wrote:Well shit, I'm so computer illiterate...I don't even know what a url is or even been to photobucket so needless to say the pic didn't show up :roll:


It works as a link, just delete the seceond set of [img] on each side.
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby NC5thcav » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:18 pm

East wrote:Image

Did I do it?


Kinda like this
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Re: Venomous snakes

Postby East » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:27 pm

:lol: How'd you do that!?
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