One Problem i have with Melee weapons

[big stoner]

Is blood if you hit a zombie with lets say a baseball bat blood will spray for some distance.
Running around in the ZPAW it seems likely that almost everyone would pick up random cuts and scratches so close range bashing just seems like a bad idea to me. Even if you do not have any cuts a drop can still get in your mouth or eye.

[Shmerlin]

Is blood if you hit a zombie with lets say a baseball bat blood will spray for some distance.
Running around in the ZPAW it seems likely that almost everyone would pick up random cuts and scratches so close range bashing just seems like a bad idea to me. Even if you do not have any cuts a drop can still get in your mouth or eye.

Yup.

[Alpha-17]

Depends. If the zombies are of the dead variety, the blood will have started to congeal, and there will be less risk of spray. It really depends on the zombies in question.

This is also a good reason why you should always wear good pants, full length top, gloves, and even eye pro. Even if you've got a decent scratch, if it's bandaged and covered, your danger of becoming infected due to spray would be lessened.

[Quartermaster]

This is not meant to be flip. Close your mouth. Get some safety glasses. Use a gun, a mace, a horseman's hammer and/or pick. Or drill a couple of pilot holes on your wood Louisville slugger and drive a few wrought iron nails through it to make a Lebotomizer.

Quartermaster

[big stoner]

Depends. If the zombies are of the dead variety, the blood will have started to congeal, and there will be less risk of spray. It really depends on the zombies in question.

This is also a good reason why you should always wear good pants, full length top, gloves, and even eye pro. Even if you've got a decent scratch, if it's bandaged and covered, your danger of becoming infected due to spray would be lessened.

that is true but if you're in zombat with adreline you could pick up cuts and scratches and not feel them of be aware of them till later. bashing zeds up close just seems too risky.

[bonanacrom]

When one runs out of ammo one has to do something. I really don't think waving your arms and screaming " time out " is going to give ya time to reload.

[velojym]

"Hey! I'm calling FOWL!"

[dukman]

When one runs out of ammo one has to do something. I really don't think waving your arms and screaming " time out " is going to give ya time to reload.

^^ This hits the nail on the head. Are you going to remain holed up without any food, shelter, or water... in other words - no hope of long term survival, or are you going to make a run for it?

[FanaticalModerate]

Is blood if you hit a zombie with lets say a baseball bat blood will spray for some distance.
Running around in the ZPAW it seems likely that almost everyone would pick up random cuts and scratches so close range bashing just seems like a bad idea to me. Even if you do not have any cuts a drop can still get in your mouth or eye.

I agree with you, even though I'm going out on a limb doing so ...as I have zero experience with zombies.

I gather that the majority view on ZS is that melee weapons, in general, are sub-optimal for combating zombies.

Amusingly enough, this sub-forum more frequently gets threads where someone advocates for melee weapons and then gets soundly dogpiled, often with posts presenting the same argument as you.

[SwampRat]

Tyvek anybody?

[Alpha-17]

When one runs out of ammo one has to do something.

And that's about the only reason why I'd use a melee weapon. The other reason would be if I was trying to avoid attracting attention. Gunfire could attract zombies/thugs/enemies. There are plenty of situations where that would be bad. A good melee weapon, and the skill to use it, would help you avoid situations like that. I'm not saying we should all run around like Rambo, with a knife better described as a short sword, and a big a$$ bow, but a baseball bat, decent combat knife, bayonet, or a machete would be a good idea.

[Quartermaster]

There are plenty of good melee weapons available in your garage and tool sheds if you recognize them as such and can make a couple of alterations. Shovels, scraper/trimmers, brush knives, bill hooks; just sharpen the edges some with a file. Crowbars with leather for a grip and a lanyard also filed up a bit. Get in some cardio and swing/slash/thrust practice to get into practice. Some of best tempered steel in the world right at your finger tips.

Quartermaster

[Ponzi]

Sharp, long blades like Kukris or Machetes are perfect for killing zombies. Although it might sound like a cliche to suggest a Machete to kill Zeds, it truly is the right way.

Not to get too much splatter on you, the ideal way to destroy the brain is to lift the machete/kukri over your head and slash down on the skull and hope to get a deep enough cut/powerful impact to destroy the brain.

Blunt objects are horrible melee weapons, because it would take a lot of strength to wave a baseball bat around for even 10 straight minutes without getting exhausted. Also, a good blow to the head with a blunt object would spill blood EVERYWHERE, including your face and hands.

[wulf202]

Sharp, long blades like Kukris or Machetes are perfect for killing zombies. Although it might sound like a cliche to suggest a Machete to kill Zeds, it truly is the right way.

Not to get too much splatter on you, the ideal way to destroy the brain is to lift the machete/kukri over your head and slash down on the skull and hope to get a deep enough cut/powerful impact to destroy the brain.

Blunt objects are horrible melee weapons, because it would take a lot of strength to wave a baseball bat around for even 10 straight minutes without getting exhausted. Also, a good blow to the head with a blunt object would spill blood EVERYWHERE, including your face and hands.

The head isn't exactly like spiting a watermelon, there's this big ass bone structure you have to go through to get into the brain. The long blades like you describe would also have a high likelihood of getting stuck in the z's head if they can get through a skull at all, they are both designed to hack or slash. Khukuri and machete would be highly effective if you were trying to bleed them out though.

I won't rely on "HOPE", but physics.

Blunt ish objects are perfect melee weapons when trying to get through the skull. You're realy looking at how much PSI you can get to crack the skull so a heavy object with a small, hardened surface area would be ideal.

Mattocks, picks, roofing hammers, BIG ball peen, welding hammers, auto body hammers, axes and mauls, any of the tools a fire fighter uses.

Even as above using the weight of a bat and adding the spikes to penetrate the brain would be effective.

[Jeriah]

When one runs out of ammo one has to do something. I really don't think waving your arms and screaming " time out " is going to give ya time to reload.

Yeah, this. If it's down to melee weapons against real live undead zombies, you done fucked up somewhere (probably by not bringing enough ammo), but in that situation, what else are you going to do?

Proper PPE will mitigate the risk of infection but can be hot and cumbersome to wear. A good compromise might be gloves (handy to have anyway), goggles or safety glasses (ditto), and some kind of balaclava to keep shit out of your mouth. You could even get one with a skull mouth on it to look like Ghost from MW2.

And bring more ammo next time. Because yeah, going hand-to-hand against rotting stinking infectious corpses would not be fun. To prepare for combat against undead, slow, Romero zombies, think about it like this: Zombies are basically a bunch of mentally-handicapped, HIV-positive, homicidal, cannibalistic stroke victims wearing Level IV body armor (but no helmet). So they're slow, they're dumb, and they're not very coordinated, but they'll bite the shit out of you, and if you get their blood in you, you're done for. So keep your distance, avoid them if possible, use ranged weapons like a firearm if necessary, and melee weapons as a last resort. And yeah, you might put on some gloves, goggles, and a face mask to lower the risk a bit.

[Vindictus]

Really, it would depend on the means of infection. If the disease is caused by fluid contamination, then that is a valid arguement against getting blood on yourself. That can be done by avoiding melee combat at all costs... Or by wearing a leather jacket, waterproof combat boots, a mask, pants...

As far as kukri's go I'm not going to talk, but with machete work decapitating is the way you want to go.

[gelgoog]

Machetes? Kukris?

Man I don't want to get that close to a zed in the first place.



that's what these are for.

[Vindictus]

True enough. But to be quite frank, spears aaren't that mobile, and overall do less mechanical damage, [barring the pole-axes of course] which it makes up by being more accurate and having a longer range. Or to put it in simpler terms- A spear in the guts stops a man, but all it would do to a zombie would slow it down a bit. Excepting the poleaxes, which are HEAVY. Believe me, swinging one of those around is no punk. Hence, lighter weapons which can be used more easily, and do similar mechanical damage, are more viable.

This all assumes, of course, that you aren't actually a body builder or something. If you are, then you might last a good hour swinging that thing around before you can't lift it any more and get eaten alive.

[gelgoog]

True enough. But to be quite frank, spears aaren't that mobile, and overall do less mechanical damage, [barring the pole-axes of course] which it makes up by being more accurate and having a longer range. Or to put it in simpler terms- A spear in the guts stops a man, but all it would do to a zombie would slow it down a bit. Excepting the poleaxes, which are HEAVY. Believe me, swinging one of those around is no punk. Hence, lighter weapons which can be used more easily, and do similar mechanical damage, are more viable.

This all assumes, of course, that you aren't actually a body builder or something. If you are, then you might last a good hour swinging that thing around before you can't lift it any more and get eaten alive.

well actually a spear is a lot more useful then you think. See just like maxi pads, most decent spears come with "wings" that prevents a corpse from pushing past the blade.



so even if you did gut check a zombie, he is still stopped at the end of the spear. With a good push moment will send him falling backwards onto the ground with which you can move in and finish him off with a good stab at the head. Or you can pin him to the ground while another person comes over with a blunt object to smash its skull in. This is how soldiers on teh battlefield used to deal with knights on horses. They would use a polearm called a mancatcher which would catch them around the neck and dehorse them, while another soldier can in for the finishing blow or capture them for ransom.

mancatcher:



plenty of other options as well...my personal favorite amongst my armor is my bardiche.




Why are we utilizing jungle clearing implements when we have weapons that were designed after 10,000 years of experience in melee combat. If I have to go after a zed with something that doesn't go bang then I would grab my spear, bardiche or Mace.....if I need to hack up some vegetation then I will grab a machete.

[Vindictus]

Why are we utilizing jungle clearing implements when we have weapons that were designed after 10,000 years of experience in melee combat. If I have to go after a zed with something that doesn't go bang then I would grab my spear, bardiche or Mace.....if I need to hack up some vegetation then I will grab a machete.

And you're assuming a two, three, sometimes nearly four foot long razorblade is useless in a fight because people also use them to chop brush and food sometimes. But I digress. In any case, we both seem to agree that melee combat is effective with Zeds. And if I prefer to slash them with a tool that I've been able to get plenty of experience swinging around to a midevil weapon that I've never touched before, that's my personal thing.

Oh, other quite effective weapons that are similar to the machete- Falchion and Dao. If you practice a midevil martial arts recreation, I suggest you try a falchion out for a few swings. It's virtually identical in principle to a machete, unless the person who made it skimped out on labor and used stainless instead of a good springy carbon.

[gelgoog]

Why are we utilizing jungle clearing implements when we have weapons that were designed after 10,000 years of experience in melee combat. If I have to go after a zed with something that doesn't go bang then I would grab my spear, bardiche or Mace.....if I need to hack up some vegetation then I will grab a machete.

And you're assuming a two, three, sometimes nearly four foot long razorblade is useless in a fight because people also use them to chop brush and food sometimes. But I digress. In any case, we both seem to agree that melee combat is effective with Zeds. And if I prefer to slash them with a tool that I've been able to get plenty of experience swinging around to a midevil weapon that I've never touched before, that's my personal thing.

Oh, other quite effective weapons that are similar to the machete- Falchion and Dao. If you practice a midevil martial arts recreation, I suggest you try a falchion out for a few swings. It's virtually identical in principle to a machete, unless the person who made it skimped out on labor and used stainless instead of a good springy carbon.

even still a machete requires you to get awfully close, well within grappling range. Also the fact that slashing weapons against something that feels no pain and can not bleed out may not be the best approach. You miss the head and stick that blade inside its ribs getting it stuck and he is still going to be lunging at you. A 2 ft blade does not give you as much advantage as you might think. IF you are dead set on using a blade then your best bet is to find yourself a nice riot shield or buckler which would allow you to quickly recover when you over extend yourself as well as bash the zombie if he grabs ahold of you inside your swing radius. There is a reason why you never saw soldiers carrying only a short sort and nothing else.



long hafted blunt objects are probably ideal for the undead variety. Bone crushing goodness so that anywhere you do hit you can be assured that you will disable something.

A poleaxe would do mighty fine in just about any situation

[Vindictus]

Slashing does decent mechanical damage too, with attacks aimed at muscle groups and tendons. It's not that I can't see the tactical advantage of a spear, I'm just saying that punching a hole with what's essentially a knife on a stick isn't going to do much damage, even if it keeps the Z a spear's length away. To get to the brain, you'd have to go either through the roof of the outh or the eyes, which is a tricky prospect. And a halberd is a VERY heavy weapon, so you have to counter it's damage with it's portability. One on one, it's certainly a very quick kill, but mob on one, and you're swinging it around and getting tired a lot quicker then you would with the relatively lightweight machete. Also, with a machete, if you have a couple minutes you can cut a staff/spear or 'Big pointy stick' which has nearly the same tactical advantage as a manufactured spear, it's only drawback being it's lack of a steel tip and wings [The latter of which can be remedied, with a few minutes and some twine/rope]. You can build a camp wiith a wall with a machete, with a halberd... Wouldn't splitting wood have a chance of breaking the spear blade off, and killing one of it's three methods of attack [Trip, stab, hack]? So, it's completely useless outside of fighting.

In summation, I prefer a Machete because you can A] fight with it longer, and B] use it to help you outside of battle. I can respect your position though, and we'll probably just have to agree to disagree about the 'Better Weapon'.

[KnightoftheRoc]

A lot of good points raised here, along with the ever-useful and oft-repeated "don't let them get within melee range in the first place". My only argument would be against using a horseman's pick, or any other weapon designed similarly. The horseman's pick was pretty much a disposable weapon, when used against an armored opponent. The force of the swing combined with the rush of the horse, would bury the pick, piercing the armor, but the armor itself would then make retrieving the weapon problematic- and you're already moving, and on horseback. Users of these would typically release the weapon and switch to a sword or axe, retrieving the weapon later on.

Anything designed in a pick-like manner would likely stick or jam inside the opened skull, in pretty much the same way. I think that if you can get something designed more like a hammer or bat, you'd be able to use it more effectively. For the same reasons as above, I'd also avoid adding spikes or nails to a wooden club or bat- it's just asking to lose the weapon when you need it most.

I'm also one that prefers the crushing of a skull to the slicing of one. You get more brain damage done with a crushing blow, and a slice into the brain could simply sever connections no longer in use by the zombie, so it could turn out completely useless, where it would be fatal to a normal human. A decapitation would be ideal- even if the brain remains functioning, the zombie is pretty much reduced to an ankle nipping landmine. Or, a soccer ball, if y'all get bored later on.

A sword would be great for decap's, but don't rule out a machete- after all, it's also a sword of sorts, albeit single edged, but- it's a lot more likely to be ready-to-hand than a sword would.

[squinty]

Zombies aren't people. What works best on people might not work on Romero-style zombies, who have to have their brains mushed to be neutralized.

And I think some of you really underestimate just how difficult it would be to drive a thin slicing weapon through a skull deep enough to destroy the whole brain, or how difficult it would be to decapitate a human(ish) body with a machete or other light sword. Stabbing, slashing weapons killed people more often by blood loss, or by piercing vital organs in the torso, and incapacitated them by slicing through nerves and tendons. Mostly non-decapitative, non-brain mushing type injuries.

If it's specifically skull crushing or decapitation you want, a sword stout enough to do it reliably and consistently would be a pretty big affair. I think you get more bang for your buck with a small axe or nice big hammer. Metal baseball bat or mag-lite would be nice runners up (I have an ancient 6 "D" cell mag lite. My thumb size LED flash puts out as much light as the mag, but swing it from the shoulder and bang!)

I have a 22 ounce framing hammer that I've been hitting stuff (mostly nails) with for twenty years now. I can swing it with great facility. It's 18 inches long, and I'm 100% confident that it could go through an undead skull - both the blunt impact side of the head and the stout, sharp prying claws on the head, which could also be used to pry a chunk of undead skull away from it's head after the initial impact. Also, most of my jeans have a built in "holster" for it already, and like a machete it's dual purpose in that you can build stuff, break stuff, or pry with it even better than you can fight with it. I'll take a hammer - and not a war hammer, not a medieval weapon hammer, a straight up modern roofing or framing hammer that people use to build houses with, over a sword. For zombies anyway.




If you hit the hammer, ax, bat or maglite at a not quite ideal angle, they may glance away from the target in unfortunate directions but they are less likely to break from the lateral force, chip or roll their edge, or get hung up inside the target, than a sword.

Also my dog is tiny but fierce:

He fears no Zombies.

ETA: Well, no it's a six cell maglite. Could have sworn I bought an eight cell once back in the day...